Has anyone else auditioned something that really was terrible?

I remember many moons ago auditioning a CD player and when I arrived at the store I was told by the salesman that it was ready in the room to listen. I went in and sat down to listen and as there were three pairs of speakers in front of me I could not know which pair I was listening to . It turns out I was listening to Lowther horns and some ocscure 4 watt amplifier that I forget the name of. The sound was awfull with no transparency no detail and no treble. I dully told the salesman so and he told me that it was the best he was prepared to stock as he hated all things treansistorised so if it wasn't good enough then to go somewhere else and not come back. Not too many months after that he put the shutters up and has not been heard of again.

Some dealers are customer friendly, but they seem to be getting scarcer.  Decades ago, when I ran one pair of B&W DM14's, I went to a well-regarded store in Miami, Audio by Caruso.  The owner, a frail little man, told me that he had a really great trade in, and I could buy it and return it within a week. Despite the beautiful, sculpted wood cabinet, and overall quality, it was not what I needed.  When I returned it with 30 minutes to spare, he dug through his cluttered desk and handed me the actual check I had written him.

McIntosh Amp at a high end dealership.

I wanted to hear a pair of well regarded speakers, low sensitivity, at one of the most respected NJ dealers. I took some music with me, one being Jeff Wayne’s War of the Worlds, a lot to deal with, and one specific part: Does Richard Burton sound right?

They had a McIntosh system, hooked up the speakers, music with very strong dynamics, and I noticed to my right, a bit behind me, the salesman was riding the gain up/dn manually, tweaking it (to keep the McIntosh Power Guard from engaging frequently I discovered). Stupid.

I knew enough, had my own 300wpc McIntosh SS system at home, to realize that size McIntosh amp could not handle those inefficient speakers. Someone else might not have realized it, might have taken those speakers home to an under powered amp, or, been sold an under powered amp with them.

Of course I had/still have great respect for McIntosh, it’s all about their transformers, and I like having Power Guard, especially if not needed.

Just swapped that SS system for McIntosh tube tuner/preamp mx110z, couldn’t be happier. I never needed 300wpc, it had been a gift, I replaced it with 45 wpc tube integrated, (Cayin A88T, they say designed to ’sound’ like McIntosh tube MC275). I could have easily gone down to 30 wpc with my efficient horns, drove them with 30wpc mono blocks for years.

Anyway, I always wonder(ed) what might have happened to a less informed/aware customer.

Or, come to think about it, they might have concluded the speakers sucked, or McIntosh sucked, not realizing more power would have changed everything.

Because it doesn’t work in your system doesn’t mean it’s a terrible product. Maybe something it’s matched with in your system is a terrible match and its performance is severely compromised, but I wouldn’t go around claiming it to be a terrible product. I doubt in this day and age you’ll  find anyone building a terrible product. That being said, I’ve no doubt there are manufacturers who build products that are way overpriced for their performance vs cost. Even then I wouldn’t call it a terrible product; maybe way overpriced.

Though it's not an amplifier, I think the worst hifi product I ever heard was the Bertagni panel speaker back in the mid-1970s. I like Magnapans, Quads and most other panel speakers I’ve heard, but these failed horridly.

Am I just spoiled?

Hope not. You are probably just what you should be: discriminating. Audiophiles ought to have high standards. Not be running around buying one thing after another. Making fool statements and excuses like it might not work in every system. As if anything magically knows whether to sound good or not based on what else its connected to. Yet this is what passes for advice around here.

The vast, vast majority of stuff is crap. At every price level. Crap. Its just very, very hard to figure out what is good. A lot of which has to do with nonsense advice like it might not work in your system. So people buy crap that they can live with, but because its crap it has some glaring faults, which they then try and cover up with other stuff, because someone told them this is called system matching and something they are suppose to do. What utter nonsense.

What you are supposed to do is what you are doing. You read and research and winnow down to a few and then actually audition the few. Which inevitably you find are not what they were cracked up to be. Do this enough and you get so GD good at reading and analyzing that you almost never bring anything even remotely crappy home. But this takes a long time. Decades.

This is not called being spoiled. Far from it. This is called being competent, being a good listener, being selective. Its a virtue not a sin.
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367

Thanks,  I feel much better.  I had shorted a preamp to the A/C outlet wiring trying to test a transformer, because the preamp was coming on slowly.  I sent 110 volts through the other preamp inputs, two amps, a CD player. I shulld have just left it on all the time.  I already had the little caps that triggered the input reed switches, but just had to try one more thing. Luckily, I found a good repairman and decided that my stuff was worth fixing.  I listened to Mac for the first time since seeing the Dead's Wall of Sound at Miami Jai Alai.  I paid about as much to fix my stuff than I had paid used, years ago, but I am happy again.  It was  lot less money than new Mac stuff, and I actually prefer my electronics for my speakers.

Jump on Bose asap?  I was given what is probably Bose best speakers. They are towers with powered subs and do spread out acoustic piano well.  In fact, they even spread out triangles, making them sound the size of a tuba.  Well, maybe not quite.  He wanted them out of his house, and had already donated his Bryston electronics to me because he now needs remote control from his wheelchair.  I had heard his system many times, graciously accepted the speakers, and took them home.  I never hooked them up, thank you!.  Wanna buy them?  I also have his Grace 707 and a nice Sony tuner I don't need.  Plus the aforementioned Marantz surround receiver...  and a crap load (5 pairs and three orphans) of B&W speakers,  and a  single, painted 1950's or 60's AR three way.  Holy crap: Goliath and Son of Goliath M&K subs.  OMG, so to speak,  I need to sell some crap.

I heard a Rogers Integrated with Magnapan 3.7i's. man did the music sound strained. Although the dealer commented on how good it sounded.

ozzy

Not to step on any toes, offend anyone, or slay a sacred (cash) cow, but Wilson Audio Watts/Puppies.

Ouch! Very ouch! 

I will have to listen to those the next time I visit my dealer, who also carries B&W.  Are Wilson's extra theatrical or something?  Should I ask the hear them on transistors, or Audio Research's giant tube amps?  You know, the ones that require a separate audio room A/C system.

"Jump on Bose asap dude!!" is a completely uncalled for response from EBM.  Take it elsewhere.  Should have been removed by the mods.  Unnecessary harmful commentary.

Martin Logan Motion series. I heard them soon after they came out, so they may have been revised. In a subjective way they are objectively bad speakers. Not even overrated, but just really bad.

So basically what you have is the best and everyone else owns crap, aye yi yi...if someone thinks something sounds good with their own two ears then to them it is not crap...ears or an ear are like a fingerprint, no two are the same....that’s why there is so much "crap" to choose from...I like my crap, it does not sound like crap...😁💩

A couple things I would characterize as quite bad:* SVS Ultra Bookshelf speakers* The amp section of a Parasound Halo integrated amp - the preamp section was actually very good

Not terrible, but not good:* PS Audio M300 monoblocks

I’ve heard whole systems that were bad -but I know it was how the dealer had them set up. McIntosh amps and pre, Paradigm towers, JL Gotham subs, etc.  It was disappointing, but I’m sure if done right the equipment would have performed well. manufacturers can’t control that. 

Well I hesitate to say “terrible,” because audio is so subjective.
But, since you bring it up, one of the oddest and most eye opening auditions I’ve ever done really drove that point home to me. 

The speakers were Klipsch La Scala (the new ones within last year) and they were being driven by high end amps and source (I forget which), and were being played LOUD.

But to me they did not sound good at all. I couldn’t really bring myself to hang out there for the duration. But the eye opening thing was that there was another dude there just digging the sound, and I could tell by his reactions that to him they sounded magical.

Different strokes for different folks.... probably the stuff I like he would have hated, and that’s cool too

Having majored in a low-paying profession, and not getting much help from the Mrs., I didn’t have the money to replace the stereo system stolen from my bachelor apartment.  And when you don’t have money, what is the point of window-shopping for audio equipment, or anything nice? (Sad, I agree).  And the people we hung out with didn’t have much more than we did.

I was still using the Sony receiver, Pioneer CD and Jensen speakers I’d had for 25+ years when, this past December, my she’s-the-one girlfriend decides to move on.  Bummer. And what’s a guy to do?  I decided I would finally indulge my long-time interest in fine electronics.  I have only been acquiring pieces since early January of this year.  I don’t know what sounds good yet, and instead of going to a local hifi store where they tweak equipment to make it sound better than it ever would for me, I decided to research on-line to find items in my price range that are well-regarded (and seek opinions here). 

Now the “what sounds bad” part:  I have recently been moving my new subs to see where they sound best, and I was close to my speakers and realized that there wasn’t much sound coming from the right main.  I heard this before and I thought it strange that so much music would have been mixed with most voice and guitar coming from the left channel.  Being closer and realizing “this ain’t right”, I switched the speaker cables and found that most music now came from the right channel.  Great!  Something is wrong with the right channel on my new-used amp!  

But before I got panicked, I started checking various connections and finally both channels played!  I sat back at my usual listening spot and realized that I was just now hearing my system the way it should be!  I know this sounds utterly stupid — how could I not have noticed before?  But there was some sound coming from the right speaker, but it was less than half the volume that was coming from the left, and I still thought it sounded good.  So . . . the weakest link in a stereo set-up is obviously ME!

Carvin dcm--2500 power amps, bridged mono, 1 for each speaker.
2500 W per side, effortless, easy, very open , holographic, stadium like sound.  
 Loved them, reliability was worst ever experienced, 
  Within first 3 weeks, one amp went out.
 Gave them away, 

the sound was very good, open, airy, effortless, headroom was unlimited!

 Wish I still had them, reliability was just very poor!

  Didn’t carvin go under!??.

Audioguy85:  Not at all. In fact, I mentioned some true crap that I currently own (Marantz 125wpc surround receiver, Bose speakers).  I also have friends who have far superior systems to mine. Additionally, my pal gave me a Bryston amp and preamp which are excellent, but a bit sloppy compared to my Audire.  I still really enjoy them, and am a bit surprised that there is any noticible dfference, on certain music.  My XM tuner is the weak link to my system, but I still enjoy the jazz channel.  It is about the music, not the latest addictoin.  I would really like some better speakers, but not enough to pay for them.  Not much in audio is worse than someone who insists on showing off some obscure swatch of music to prove how great his stuff is, rather than sharing a love of music.

In fact, I sold a GAS Thoebe for the same buddy.  It was really terrible.   Iheard why he upgraded to Bryston, even for his Bose towers, which I could listen to, but I would have to drop some music, and probably add some more.  As GAS designer James Bongoirno said, If six audiophiles choose a Cd or LP to play on each of the six systems, each piece chosen will sound best on his own system.   I like to add:  We choose components to make the music we love sound the best to us, and vice versa.. 

Went for a demo and they played their best system. CD with some sand amps and those weird Gallo speakers. They thought it was awesome. The music had the oddest single purple-grey color. I asked how much and they proudly told me in that smugness reserved for when they think you're trash. I had the satisfaction of telling them what I thought of the sound.

Whoops, pardon the dyslexia.

Another was a tube Concordant phono preamp. Bright and glaring like the sun. Dreadful.

@audioguy85....and therein lies the rub; one persons' delicate wine will strike another as lacquer thinner with tint.

Speakers can get dismissed as being driven by 'meh' gear....conversely, good equipment can only push flawed speakers to a certain point of disappointment.

Even when one has great stuff in a lousy space, it can execute a brilliant Fail.  The flip side of that might pass muster....until you get it home.

There's an enormous trail of items that shouldn't have left the drawing board...or screen, to be more 21st century about it.

...and then, there's US.  With no 2 ears alike, and I'm not even going to discuss the 'wetware' between them.

Yup, danvignua, you're right.  Spoiled rotten.
No reason to feel bad about it, though.
You're in the right space with the right crowd to admit it.

AA....Audioholics Anonymous....;)

(*L*  Now that y'all are having a serious case of 'cabin fever: virus version', stepping on some insteps ought to distract for awhile...)

@bob540  

Wish I could say that I've never done anything like that. But it happens. At least, metoo.

"Perfection"

...is a Myth.

I’ve heard a lot of things in my years, but truly awful....

So, please keep in mind my experience with McIntosh is very limited, and they do like meters, but one of the worst high end systems I ever heard was in the late 90’s. A triangle speaker pair with a big McIntosh stack. My goodness, ear drills. OUCH!! Since then the only similar experience I’ve had was while trying to audition DAC’s. The dealer tried to demo the GE Triton One and I knew nothing about them, but I thought he was trying to hurt me. The treble was awful and screechy. He switched to some Paradigms which I had more experience with and all was well. To be fair the demo room was way too cramped with the sofa up against the wall, but there you have it, my absolute two worst experiences listening to gear. But wait, there’s more!

I did get to listen to the NAD Master's DAC.  Maybe it was cold, but the Parasound ZDAC totally outclassed it. Could the main issue be very bright room, or bad/bright interconnects that made everything sound brigher and harder than it had to?  OK, maybe. I don't know, but I went with an ARC DAC 8 which I was only a little happy with, before landing on a Mytek Brooklyn.

Over the last 2 years I stopped by to listen to McIntosh speakers, the dealer just thought I’d enjoy listening to them, as an experiment, and they had some weird plastic resonance they could not shake. For speakers aspiring to the high end, that was pretty bad. I was really disappointed since I thought the McIntosh line array methodology was onto something, but um, no, not these.

Again, I’ve heard McIntosh seriously twice, if you come at me wanting to debate the relative merits of Mc I am not your guy. I’ve never claimed to know them well at all.

I’ve heard some systems that I could not really get into. So, those of you who are my anti-fans, take careful note.

Goodwin’s High End in Waltham, MA? Heard a Spectral system with Avalon Acoustics. It was an all or mostly ceramic speaker. Whip sharp transients. I think the sound could have cut my belt in half if it was any louder, but was it fun? No. Really was not. Got introduced to Patricia Barber though, that was very much worthwhile. My fascination with ceramic drivers would be completely crushed much later, having heard a 2 way with Mundorf tweeters. Bleah. I liked the Tweets though. :) Composite textiles are the way to go for mid-woofers I think, based on what speakers I like tend to use. Focal’s W construction, multi layer paper and resin, fiberglass, love them all.

I got to hear the original B&W Nautilus concept speakers with a full multi-amp Krell stack and custom crossovers at the B&W/Rotel distributorship. Perhaps Burlington, MA? I think they had to wake me up. Had the Snell A/IIIs I heard in my youth spoiled me to so many modern high end speakers?

I’ve also had a few curios things. When I went to audition an integrated amp, the speaker cables were out of phase, and the Wilson Sashas (probably) sounded bright as could be. Perhaps the speaker crossover settings or something in the DAC set up but wow, the treble was so exaggerated I had to turn the treble on the integrated down by a lot to get it to neutral. Fortunately, thanks to @Musiclovers in SF I knew what those speakers sounded like. Thinking that I could tell what part of the problem was speaker, and what was amp I bought the amp and brought it home, and it was perfect. Paying half off for a new Luxman was also irresistible.

Another curious event was my time at a show near the San Francisco airport. It was sponsored by ASC whom I have a lot of respect for, but it seemed all they brought was the tube traps and honestly they sounded awful. Every room had one note bass. Like no matter what was playing it had exactly the same bass signature. The best rooms used generic and modest room treatment. I don’t think the issue is with ASC products, but the reliance on just this one type of product throughout the show.

As always, please, enjoy whatever brand you like. :-) But if you ask me sincerely what unpleasant experiences I've had listening, there you go.

My system had no resolution, and I kept having to turn it up.  But it didn’t matter; it just wasn’t right, anymore. I was quite concerned by the dawning realization that my hearing changed (again).  While looking up the number for my ENT doctor, the lightbulb went off, and I discovered that the bi-wire jumpers of my ProAcs were disconnected, so no tweeter.   (I blame my kids!).    Although it sounds like the source of the problem should have been obvious, I was freaking out.   Life is good.  

Had a junior salesman try to impress me with a pair of infinity speakers -can't remember the exact pair but the had a largish woofer .they sure went loud with a little coaxing but the sound was horrid.Needless to say, I was unimpressed with the salesman not understanding what was wrong with them.I'm guessing he was a metal fan and preferred loudness to any other aspect of sound

@bob540:
Don’t worry too much about the inexpensive gear thing.

Yes, oftentimes (but def not always) more expensive stuff can sound better, but it is never generally linear and I’d almost say it’s sorta inverse exponential, which probably is meaningless scientifically but hopefully you get my point.

If you have a solid low cost system you often have to spend WAY more for a sound improvement that most normal people (eg, everyone in my family but me) would say is not at all worth the upgrade cost!

B&Ws with diamond tweeters always force me out of the room within minutes. The Kef LS50s shocked me with how distorted they are. Magician speakers in the M series.

IMO it all comes down to the understanding of what makes a component sound good. Someone said most of the stuff is crap - that maybe true but you all keep falling for the same old lines. You need to understand what makes a component sound good. I always enjoy comments like "build like a tank". I still do not understand what that means or how that makes a component sound better.

I was at VPI Industries with our phono stage which is a reference level product. In one of the rooms was a pair of Martin Logan speakers. They were being driven by a Peach Tree 50WPC integrated amplifier. Way under powered. BUT the phono stage was so good that the sound was better than all the other systems. So blanket statements like many above (not all) are just opinions with not much explanation of why the system performed poorly.

Most components are similar in design and parts quality so IMO they sound similar with certain areas sounding better that the other component. Similar capacitors, resistors, layout, etc. What do you expect to hear different then? Specs IMO do not indicate how a component will perform.

Once you learn what makes something sound good then you will understand how to select the correct component to use for your tastes (three is no best of anything or very few of them IMO). It is really that simple. I was at a persons home not to long ago. Many people told me that the sound was really good and I had to go hear it. They were all impressed. I sat down to take a listen to all of the comments that everyone said they liked about the system. I sat there for a few seconds and thought to myself, what are these people hearing. I asked to owner to make a few simple changes and they were like wow the sound is much better. More open, more dynamic, more musical, more details and dimension. So am I to think that all these people don’t know anything about sound? They all thought the system was incredible before I made a few simple changes. I could have installed a resistor and made the system sound even better.

I do not mean to insult anyone or anything like that, but I will keep repeating myself, learn what makes one component sound different that the other one and you will be much happier. I am also always learning new things myself about sound.

Happy Listening to you all.

       Someone mentioned the 1970's McIntosh triangular speakers.  When I was a old enough to work summer jobs, my friend and I were shopping for stereos.  We went to the Mac dealer in north Fort Lauderdale and heard them at only the second high end store I had visited   Our local Boca Raton store was totally out of our price range, with its Maggies, Audio Research, and "entry level"  Luxman equipment.  Even with our naive ears, except for being musicians of sorts,  we both agreed that those were horrible sounding speakers.
     In the middle of the Summer, my buddy had decided on a Pioneer receiver that was several hundred dollars.  That same Mac dealer carried them for their relatively impoverished customers.  When we got paid on  a Friday, we rushed to the store in our electrician boots, denim tennis shorts and tee shirts, because they were only open from 9-5 for their wealthier clientele.  No one would help us.  In fact, the sales people were maneuvering the few other customers away from us, while giving us dirty side glances.     Finally, my buddy took out a stack of bills and started waving them around, yelling, "If you want us to leave, simply take my money and let me buy this receiver.  They quickly complied, without a hint of an apology.     When Advents came out, the Boca store picked them up along with Phase linear for a truly entry level product!  They treated us like royalty, because that was before Boca Raton was infiltrated by people who wanted to glean some breeding, but not manners, by moving there from Fort Lauderdale. 

The biggest issue with B&W's, other than price, is that  they reveal just how mediocre most electronics and recordings are.  I love the B&W's with diamond tweeters, and wish I has some.   Most manufacturers try to mask anomalies, but this also masks some good parts.  Well, another issue is that most amps do not have adequate power supplies to run them properly, making us run subs, unless you are lucky enough to have amps (Yes, it still takes two) that were reviewed as having "Gargantuation bass", like my Audire amps.  Compared to a Bryston 200 wpc amp, with its two 375 watt trannies, plus four per channel Motorola outputs and 4000 mf of filter caps per channel, my 125 wpc Audires have six outputs, a 500 watt tranny, and 4 26.000 mf per channel.  I believe this is why my Bryston fades a bit at loud volumes with lots of bass.  All Audire amps above mine have stacks of outputs on the same circuits used in mine, and yes, they are better, as is newer Bryston, I hear.  So much for my plebeian cheering section,as it dreams of diamonds.

I would hope we can all agree that sonic/aural memory is somewhat faulty, not as in I can't remember what my rig sounds like, but as in it's
difficult to remember someone else's rig you heard a month ago.

With that as a background, I heard the worst most absurd speakers ever on the planet.  Plasmatronics!  Built-in amp for the woofer and a plasma
tweeter driven by a tank of helium internal to the speaker.  A single
mass-less point source, wow should be amazing radiating in every direction equally.  Well think again, not only is it shrill, screechy, insanely
out of balance, smeared all over the place, but add to that the "tweeter"
creates ozone that not only makes you light headed but is an excellent
lung irritant. 

To make matters worse the "tweeter" has no upper limit on volume, it will just keep getting louder, way beyond ear splitting levels. Oh yeah, you also have to take the tank out and get it filled with helium on a regular basis.

In these days of shelter in place here is some reading enjoyment:
http://hillplasmatronics.com/

Please bear in mind that my audition took place nearly 40 years ago, this technology may have very well turned into something amazing.

Stay safe,
Barts
 

I visited a very hi end dealer a few years ago to audition the much hyped Focal Sopra 2s. They were connected to an  Aestetix setup. The sound was very schrill and lacked smooth transitions from mid to highs.  I asked that we switch to his VAC setup. Small difference but not much. I remember being very disappointed after all the great reviews I had read. 

Probably the best sounding amps for the money are made by Spark/Cayin. Spark makes all Prima Luna line. I only consider stereo based on ~~reputation~~~ by seasoned audiohiples. And photos of the inner guts. A picture tells a  thousand words. 
Marantz would never count in my consideration.
The other lines worth mentioning are Line Magnetic and ...thats about it.

Has anyone else auditioned something that really was terrible?

Real music doesn’t sound like a drilling machine or will serve you real pain. You may like the music or not, but real acoustical pain some manufacturers serve...can be only compensated with a high price tag or a lot of advertising...
My most horrible hours
Amps (Pre or Power): Mission, Rotel, Naim, Goldmund Telos, Pass Phonos (all)
Speakers: JMLab Grand Utopia (maximum pain with Accuphase or Goldmund)
Turntables: Garrard 501, Linn LP12 (any), Rockport Sirius III
Tonearms: Goldmund T3F, Clearaudio (any), Triplanar VII+
Cartridges: Clearaudio Goldfinger, Lyra Kleos, Zyx Omega

There are very few awful components and speakers. When considering the price, most products offer very nice performance, that is, among the HiFi products. Mid and Low Fi, it's a total crap shoot. 

A total POS that deserved to die was the Advent SoundSpace Control. I drove over it with my car. Have pics to prove it!  :) 

I visited a very hi end dealer a few years ago to audition the much hyped Focal Sopra 2s. They were connected to an Aestetix setup. The sound was very schrill and lacked smooth transitions from mid to highs. I asked that we switch to his VAC setup. Small difference but not much. I remember being very disappointed after all the great reviews I had read.

Yeah, I almost included the Sopra line in my post. They are well marketed, so I have a heard them a number of times. The Utopia line is perfectly fine sounding, so I am open to changing my conclusion about the Sopras if I encounter them again.

Kren0006:   I am in that category now with my family.  They looked at my Parasound amp, pre-amp and Martin Logan towers and were obviously puzzled that I would spend such money, when they already thought my old system was good.  I’m too old to be having another mid-life crisis, so I think they are attributing it to a semi-psychotic break resulting from the departure of my love mate.  (Might play a part)  😁

mtdining:  I’m surprised to see that you were not impressed by the KEF LS50s.  Steve Gutenberg and some other reviewers have raved about them, stating that they are their own reference speakers and, when combined with quality subs, would likely satisfy most discerning listeners.

Oh yeah:  Any early CD player.

Someone noted that he was surprised by the fact one of us did not like a KEF LS50 speakers.  After all, reviewer Steve Gutenberg uses them as a reference.  In a YouTube video. Nelson Pass shows his reference speakers, stating that they are not his best speakers, but are the best he has to show the differences between electronics.  Steve G did not say they are great.  He said that with the right sub, someone might be happy with them.  That is not a great endorsement.