Experience purchasing a used high-end cartridge

I have sold several used cartridges over the years. I have also purchased several used cartridges. I agree that there is risk involved but not really any different than speakers of amplifiers. When a cartridge goes bad, there are a very limited number of things that can cause it and almost all of them are repairable.

When I sell, I will take many pictures to prove the authenticity and normal function  as best I can.  I also take USB microscope pictures of the stylus and cantilever. I like this information when I buy as well.  

I will take a cart back, no questions asked if the seller isn't satisfied.  After all, I know that the cartridge works great and why not keep it a little longer?
 

I’ve purchased a couple used cartridges. A Grado ReF Platinum was only $250. But I did acquire a Benz Ace SL for $650. The cartridge was sold by a dealer with a guarantee so truly no risk. I’d owned the cartridge some 12 years earlier and had been desiring another one. The cartridge is an exceptional moving coil, and impossible to find used anymore, which is why I paid more than I should have, but you can’t take it with you. 

that's van den Hul (damn spellcheck)

I would only buy from the manufacturer who has certified it as good as new, or from a dealer I knew very well, at a store I can visit so they can do the set up. I was lucky to get a VDH MC One Special  from a dealer I knew for 20+ years who had a customer trade it back to him shortly after he bought it for a VDH Frog. He doesn't try to make money on the trade-ins so I was able to get a tremendous deal (over 60% off list). The stylus lasted 9+ years with a very good amount of playing time. VSH styli last longer than most due to the design, created by AJ van den Hut himself. 

Unless you're very lucky all in all you won't get more value than you pay for. I started in this hobby trying to get some great carts used and had limited success. Then moving up the line got hurt on a couple. One in particular- Airtight Supreme, the suspensions are the weak point and once worn out you're done. 

There are quite a few considerations to have a very good knowledge of when setting up a Cartridge.

If these considerations are not worked with to achieve an optimised interface that is maintained, a very expensive Cart' remains a very expensive Cart', or a discounted high end Cart' depending on the method of Purchase.

When not an optimised set up, there will be a Cart' in service that is not firing on Four Cylinders.

Through usage, the Cart's is being incrementally worn out, not offering near what the design for it, had as the intent for the the Cart's capabilities, as a non-optimised set up for usage, the Cart' will not being offering anything like the design intent has been for the Cart's capabilities.

A Cart' set up using Analog Magic Software not too long ago, whilst in use this weekend, was detected by the Group of listeners to have come of the sweet spot.

The very experienced TT owner has already booked the revisit from the Software owner. These are the type of commitments required, if optimised Cart' usage is to be maintained during the Cart's usage life.

Too critical a part of the signal path to by used. I vote no. 

I would like to first, and foremost, express my appreciation again for all of the valuable insights and experiences shared by the A’gon community.

@willy-t and @drmuso your comments were incredibly on-target for me, since the cartridge I was considering was a Kleos from Wayne’s Audio listed on US Audio Mart. Wayne was very responsive to all my inquiries. Based on the advice received here I requested an inspection of the cartridge. Wayne replied this was the first time that anyone had requested inspection and was not willing to risk having his cartridge sent out for inspection--a position I can fully appreciate.

Despite the professional and responsive message exchange, I decided it wasn’t worth the risk. Instead, I found a great deal on an open-box Soundsmith Sussorro ES from a highly trusted online retailer that I buy from regularly. They even agreed to mount the cartridge for me on a new Nasotec Swing Headshell that has received glowing reviews.

As @big_greg and others have mentioned., the retipping cost factored into my decision. Soundsmith has I believe the industry’s lowest retipping costs at less than 20% of retail. My only worry now is that before I need the Sussorro retipped Peter may have sold the company to someone focused more on extracting the highest profits than on customer service.

There is another method and one used by myself.

I sought out a Cart' in need of repair, which was a model I had already agreed a rebuild design for with a Technician from a Third Party Service.

I discovered a donor Cart' at a steal and took the Punt on the purchase.

The Third Party Service evaluation made it known the Cart' was in prime condition to undergo a overhaul but was filthy.

The end product Cart' fully overhauled cost approx' 1/3 of the Donor Cart's new value, and performs much much more to my liking than the Donor Original Model with a few hundred hours usage on it. 

Yes, but be very careful who you purchase from.  3 new cartridges that I purchased at used prices: VDH Colibri Grand Cru, Koetsu Coralstone D, Aida Mammoth Gold MkII.  

I've done it, but only from trusted sources.  Can you return it?  Are they a dealer or an individual? 

Another thing to consider is cost of retipping.  If there is something wrong with it, or it's worn, can you have it retipped and still come out way ahead of the cost of buying a new cart?  One of my used purchases was a Van den Hul Crimson XGW Stradivarius, which at the time were fairly inexpensive to have retipped by the manufacturer.  I paid less than half the price of a new cartridge and have not had any issues with it to date.

I recently bought a used Benz Ruby 2 from Wayne's Audio through US Audio Mart.

He stated he sells a lot of cartridges, he had several for sale, and good feedback.  He was offering several vintage cartridges that he claimed have fewer than 50 hrs. use and he's marketing his own MC cartridge.  He offered me a return privilege and installed the cartridge on my tonearm armtube.  He also gave me credit for a used cartridge I sent him.

The cartridge was carefully packed and works fine.  I've not felt a need to have it inspected, and I'm not sure there is anyone near me that would inspect it.

One advantage of buying a lightly-used cartridge from a trusted source is that it may be broken-in enough that you can judge how it will actually sound at its best; you can't always do that with a new cartridge.

Trust but verify.

I bought a "brand new" cartridge from Kron and thought I had gotten a deal. Sent pics of the odd cantilever over to the US distributor and learned it wasn't the original and was a very poor retip. Never again. 

Pretty good timing 

I just purchased a used Lyra Kleos

2 weeks ago.   Once received I could immediately tell

this cart had been through a lot 

parts of the body didn’t align with other parts and there was really 

no way to tell the amount of usage without a microscope

Before I purchase it ,the seller agreed on a return if I was not 

satisfied.  
The point in all this is wait for a new cart to come available at a discount 

I will never buy a used cart again because of this 

it took 2 weeks to receive the refund but I finally did 

Buy new and ask for a discount or wait for a promotion

Good luck Willy -T

ive done it. person-to-person sale. i vetted the guy beforehand, and it was a low-risk situation.seller gave me return policy. didnt have to use it.

Personally I don't do it. But if I was, I'd look for dated proof of purchase and I would only buy a relatively recent cartridge whose supposed hours tallied with its age.

I have bought at least 8 used cartridges.  I only buy where the seller specifies his usage and I discount that heavily.  So if somebody says < 20 hours I assume it has at least 50 on it.  I would almost never buy a cartridge where a seller claimed more than 100 hours unless it was very deeply discounted.   I did make an exception for a Koetsu Urushi Gold I recently bought where the seller claimed 250 hours but the price was good and it is impossible to buy new Koetsu's anymore.  My only disappointment was a Soundsmith Zephyr MKII and I really have no idea if the seller misrepresented it or it just is a bad cartridge.  

Unless you have a lot of money the only realistic way to try a lot of cartridges is to buy them used.  Lots of vinyl junkies have multiple cartridges which does mean there are many genuinely low hour cartridges that might come up for sale.

I would never buy a cartridge that was retipped or where the user claimed "only 500 hours and it still sounds great".  Diamonds aren't forever when it comes to cartridges.

I have used the Condition Check request for Valve Purchases.

I negotiate as part of the sale, the Valves are to be tested when I receive them, and are then kept on returned dependent on the measurements taken.

If the Vendors measurements are close to ones taken on my behalf, I have honoured the Purchase, in some cases the measurements on my behalf have been much improved over the Vendors recorded values.  

Having a assessment agreed as part if a sale agreement is one more step towards Caveat Emptor. 

I have purchased many MC carts used through the years. 
I have never been disappointed. I once purchased an AT-ART 9xA for $650

Seller put clock time on every cart. His feedback was tremendous. I was very satisfied. I have purchase a few more carts. 
Huge upgrade. 

Thank you all for the well-considered advice. @neonknight I greatly appreciate your engaging narrative and wise advice. My takeaway from @wrm57 and many of the others is to assume a steep risk curve if seller reputation involves any ambiguity--as is the case here.

@lewm, I resonated fully with your remarks which I find equally edifying to those I’ve read when lurking on other threads. @ghdprentice, same for your comments -- fortunately for me, my teenage purchase of a four-year-old ’72 Olds Cutlass bought me many years of cruising (parking) fun--though I admit to only buying new cars ever since, hence my reticence about the used cart.

Daring to synthesize the remarks, the risk-benefit tradeoff shifts towards benefit if independent, highly-reputable inspection can be obtained before purchase. I will give that a go. If the seller refuses, as @lewm stated, I will have my answer.

I have bought and sold many used cartridges over the years. I agree with one of the poster that talked about getting it inspected.  I personally have never done that and have knock on wood not been screwed out of my funds.  Good luck with you cartridge purchase whether its new or used.

Having quite a few used cartridge purchases under my belt, I will chime in. I’ve only had one issue buying a used cartridge. It was an Ortofon Bronze that had a bad channel. Can’t remember if it was left or right. One side ohmed out properly. The other was open. The stylus looked great yet the cartridge itself was junk. Other than that. All other purchases were as described. 
 

Go with your gut feeling. If something seems off about the seller, walk. 
 

Run. 
 

Plenty of other people selling used cartridges that are above the board. 

I did a Orthofon Cadenza Black with less than 15 hrs. on it, for a 3rd of the price. 160 hrs. on it now & plays like a champ.

One of the few things I never have and never will buy used.

I've bought 2 used cartridges from my local dealer, Sounds Of Silence, with terrible excitement and always the items were as described. No issues just good music.

No, I agree that I would need your criteria met if I were to buy this hypothetical used cartridge. How many times can I say go for it? I don’t buy used cartridges so the point is moot, but I’m submitting to your hypothetical. But I also think this transaction is unlikely to occur in reality. Most sellers like a glide path, not additional complication and risk. Additional shipping is a risk. And how many sellers do you think would say, sure, here’s my cartridge, have an expert vouch for it, however long that takes, while I don’t sell it to anyone else. And Peter can take months to do work. Could happen. Sure why not. Once again, go for it.

I am saying that inspection by a competent disinterested professional third party is what I would require if I were to buy a pre-owned megabuck cartridge. Speaking for myself only. I guess you don't agree, and that is fine.

Lots of ifs in this hypothetical. Sure, “if” all are satisfied, go for it.

If you are inferring that there is some risk to the seller, I would think not, if you both (seller and buyer) choose an inspector who is well known to the audio community and with an impeccable reputation, like Peter Ledermann, etc.  Or even better, perhaps the seller has particular experience with one professional retipper that he or she would prefer to use.  Possibly also Wally Tools does pre-purchase inspections of this kind. It's well worth the extra cost to the buyer, if we are talking about a cartridge that costs thousands of dollars.

trust but verify with an independent expert.

In other words, distrust until verification. If you find a seller willing to let you ship his cartridge around and have it handled by some third party, sure go for it without a second thought.

I know of a couple of folks that have done this and enjoyed ridiculously good cartridges for a time and then resold them.

I don’t consider myself paranoid but would not even consider it. When I was 18 I  got completely ripped off in the purchase of my first used car… once burned… And absolutely every friend that I lent a thousand dollars or more has never paid me back…

Like I said, trust but verify with an independent expert.  I'd go that route without a second thought.

There are a number of good re-tippers out there,  many original manufacturer have rebuilding services. I would not worry too much specially if the price is reasonable so when you add the rebuilding cost its still a good price.  

I recently bought a Sumiko pearwood celebration 2 at well below 50% cost, its sounds great and at the price i can rebuild it and still be below the used price market. 

I'd never buy a used phono cartridge.

Not within the last year, but I bought a used Denon LOMC and have (knock on wood) no issues whatsoever.

I don’t know how anyone else’s experience could bear on your decision, unless you unearth another person who bought an LOMC from the same source. If you’re really insecure, ask the seller if you can have the cartridge inspected by a trusted retipper, at your expense and in advance of any sale. If he doesn’t agree to that, you may have your answer. If he does, you’ll know exactly what you’re getting.

I don’t do it. Too many vulnerabilities with cartridges. And while I have had many excellent retips done, the sound is never quite the same as original, IME. If you have the option of having a manufacturer do a rebuild of the purchase, which is essentially a new cartridge, with warranty, then maybe. But at that point the costs mount. I’d rather save up and buy new, if only to quiet the doubts in my mind. And I consider the cost and availability of manufacturer rebuild as a condition of purchase. It’s one reason I own no Zyx: rebuild costs are too high. Ortofons, though, are reasonable.

All that said, I did recently buy, at a steep discount, a demo MC Diamond that had been used at Axpona. But it came directly from Ortofon with full warranty and had less than 20 hours on it. I trust Louis at Ortofon USA, so I had no worries.

I have done this a number of times, and I have sold also.

Often I buy a cartridge with the intention of sending it out for service. For instance, I bought an Audio Tekne MC6310 last year at a very attractive price but I knew there were a number of hours on the diamond. I played some sacrificial vinyl with it, and checked how it tracked and sounded. If everything checks out then I listen to it for a bit to get to know its presentation. I use the sellers report of hours as a conservative benchmark, in this case 800 hours. I figure I got about 200 more hours before it goes to Expert Stylus or AllClear for service. I have the same story about an original Kiseki Blackheart, but hours are unknown just that the diamond has been inspected and a lot of hours are left. I bought a Transfigurtion Proteus from a dealer with a reported 600 hours. My most memorable purchase was an essentially new Ortofon Verismo (50 hours) where the seller pulled the diamond off the cantilever when dusting. Since the cantilever is diamond its very expensive, so hopefully only the cement bond failed. Off to Expert it went and it came back with a new diamond and a clean bill of health. So I got a $6K cartridge for under $2.5K. Finaly story is a purchase of an Ortofon MC2000 where All Clear put a new diamond in for me. The shanks of the new stones are larger than what the vintage stones were, so he carefully drilled the opening slightly larger and fitted the new stone in the factory mounting hole. Lovely job he did.

I keep a conservative tally of hours on my cartridges. If I sell one, I do report hours well. I also never sell a cartridge with any issues such as low suspension or skewed cantilever. Price is going to be higher than bargain basement but like I said I get mine serviced shortly after acquisition. Never had anyone complain about a purchase from me, and my feedback has numerous cartridge sales.

Buying a used moving coil is an exercise in risk management. Talk with the seller and get a history of the cartridge. Look at his/her feedback. Plan on the cartridge needing service and factor that into your long term cost for it. But in the end it is a bit of a gamble. You are buying a piece that is worth more than what you pay for it and you offset that value by knowing you do not get its full inventory of hours and you will have to invest in it for a new diamond and cleaning in the future.