I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
@mr_bill...Certainly *S*,,,OFC 12g. copper generally, gauge decreasing with load.
KIStech....variations induce...well, variations. *shrug* I look at it as a subtle form of eq which some prefer.
Given the variety of matches 'twixt amps and drivers, not a big surprise...*s*
Amp&Driver....sounds like an 'phile 'zine to moi'.... ;) *L*
"The MegaStat 10Ks' put an Immense stress on the the Mysterio Snakelines, but they performed ecstatically, even while slapping the carpet like an Aussie earthworm on LSD.."
(We've not got to That, yet....but, I'm patient... 😏)
@mahgister ... ;) ...to the tune of 'Noel'...since Xmas is already underfoot, along with the 50% off 12' skeleton yard displays and inflatable turkeys....( I wish I could be kidding...🙄) but lacking the last 2 lines of the chorus....
Current:
"Oh well, oh, 'ell... (2x),"
"What might be expressed in the 'midst of 'No!, 'ell!"
...I'll work on the rest of the song....have the gent that did "Run Away to Mars" sing it....(great voice, there...)...
Once this is said, with a so clear conscience and a well behaved and a clairvoyant one , no doubts, how do you sleep
with peace in your own bed ?
May i remember all the list of crimes going on all around the world right now who appear justified for one conscience and not so well justified for another ?
And how about this case :
I spoke one time with a rich person a customer in the same bookstore as me in 1976 , a very rich one, who with me assisted to the stealing of a book , by a young student who was catched on the spot near us , a very poor one , and this very rich person judged the thief very harshly indeed ... It was the same discourse as yours .... the book value was very high in the philosophy section and i thought for myself that nobody steal a philosophy book to resell it, it is like a piece of bread, you steal it because you need it and you are dying of hunger to read it and cannot afford it ...I am pretty sure it was the case ...It is anyway a thief here no doubt ...
How do you judge this poor student? Do you judge it as hashly as those who buy audio cables with a fraud name written on them ? Do you judge the student as the rich customer judge him very harsly on the spot who himself can buy anything , I am curious ...
Did you sleep well the day were some government lied and killed hundred of thousand of people ? What about that ? What about your own mirror the day after the killings? Did you clearly had denounced this government of crimes against humanity at least on some forum ?
And now how about the "crimes" of Julian Assange ?
These four different exemples reveal to us as hard for a wise man could be judging others as hard it is in reality ;and how easy it could be too for some others wise men to pass judgement ...
So easy that they will sleep well after passing their judgement because they are so right ...And they can be ...
Now how about a much less clear and less evident case of POSSIBLE stealing, lying, manipulating ,killing and abuse of power by authorities as in the last three years ?
How did you, with your very elevated mind and conscience, acted about it and how do you judge the different perpetrators ? it is not an easy case but it can be a clear one for many people though not so clear for many others...
The most deep and pragmatic judgement i ever read was in the scriptures, and i am not "religious" at all; it was the parable about the beam and the straw :
Jesus says: "The straw that is in thy brother’s eye, though seest; but the beam that is in thine own eye, thou seest not! When thou hast cast out the beam that is in thine own eye, then thou wilt see to cast out the straw from thy brother’s eye."
It seems an awful lot of people are ok with stealing, as they justify it with a number of ethical and moral gymnastics. Outsmarting right vs. wrong is laughable. They’re thieves, plain and simple. Anyone who knowingly assists the thieves in profiting from their crimes is no better, no matter how much BS they shovel on their actions to try hiding the truth. It’s amoral.
Stealing is stealing, whether it’s a penny or a million dollars. You took something that didn’t belong to you without permission. If you find that behavior acceptable, simply because a particular instance benefits you, your morals are for sale. That means you have none. Anyone who is offended by hearing that should be more offended by the face in the mirror. I would rather be poor and honest. My conscience wouldn’t have it any other way.
It SEEMS so true what you just said... So true...😊
But once this is said ...
How about the patents on the human genomes by Gates and others and how about patenting the seeds and after that being able to sold them after to the "poors" of africa erasing their traditional way of living and destroying their traditional seeds ?
Legal dont means legitimate , it seems ... So argued Vandana Shiva from India😁
Patent is legal not always legitimate ... For sure cable patent are not seeds patent ...But we discuss about patents in general here because you just claim that science will stop without "patents" ... I dont think so myself by the way ...but i cannot enter this matter here ...
Without patent the so useful research about viruses by corporations will go away for sure and many others criminal stranglehold by corporations on all aspects of life... Who control the "patent" office by the way ?
And what about the patent on A. I. by corporations more powerful than nations ?
In the same way, if someone cannot afford "the patent" price, nor the "patented" product then he cannot eat, or afford the price of education, nor he cannot be cured ; We must stay legal and patent must be respected or all the progress wheel will stop ...
But this wheel of progress turn for the benefit of whom now ?
Is it really true that without "patent" the wheel of progress will stop ? Is it not instead the way we understand "profit" which will be modified ? Research will not stop ...
Just questions i throw, because i am not so sure about this claim validity...And some here are so sure not only about patents as they are legally constituted (a legitimate status versus his official legal status) but they are so sure about the moral status of everybody here in a very clear classification ...😁
I must be a confused mind or are they simplistic mind ?... 😊
My questions are here but it is better for me not to judge anybody ...
I dont see myself too my own beam when reading about the straw in their eyes...
I was thinking aloud...
Interestig how people are arguing that intellectual property doesn’t exist. Without patents and IP rights, research would go away.
POV: I've been into many hobbies that have had Chinese counterfeiters infiltrate. One is cycling. I knew a guy that bought a counterfeit Specialized bike frame. It looked exactly like the real thing, and he had guessed that it was made at the same plant that they make the official Specialized frames and he was basically getting the real-deal, but without the manufacturer and dealer profit margins and warranty costs baked in. On a fast downhill in the first month, the frame folded like a lawn chair, and he now has several fake teeth.
I've seen umpteen similar failures in a number of industries of fakes (though none involving lost teeth).
So, what could happen with the same defects in cables? Nothing? Bad sound? Blown speakers or electronics? Fire? Seeing the catastrophic failures of other counterfeit products, I am not going to risk my equipment or house. I'd rather use cheap cables that are fully tested from a reputable company, than knockoffs.
Very wise advice and no moral judgement about specific people here ...Thanks...
We must be very cautious about counterfeit tools, vehicles, amplifier, etc indeed ...
What about a counterfeit high designer "tie" now and calling someone who bought it knowingly "immoral" ?
I will not judge anyone ...It is too easy ...
I prefer a wise advice as spawn350 just gave one ...
By the way i never bought costly cables , counterfeit or not; acoustics and my own experience taught me that the difference between cables when it exist is minimalistic compared to any embeddings controls ...
So, what could happen with the same defects in cables? Nothing? Bad sound? Blown speakers or electronics? Fire? Seeing the catastrophic failures of other counterfeit products, I am not going to risk my equipment or house. I’d rather use cheap cables that are fully tested from a reputable company, than knockoffs.
Great cables do not have to cost huge prices. I recently added a pair of Anti-cables to my system.. Cambridge transport, Denafrips DAC, CJ tube pre, Classe amp. Very clear full detailed sound. Affordable US made wires.
@rwclay: I use anticables for my speaker cables. I also use their zero autoformers between my tube amps and my Magnepans. Great products. Are you using their ICs..? I’m interested in trying them out.
I have recommended the Xangsane brand before (available on Aliexpress), and they are not a counterfeit of anything. A few weeks ago, I ordered and received this silver digital cable that I had been looking at for a while. I had already had the silver interconnects for a while and been mor than happy with them. The same goes for this. If you are looking for a superior digital cable and you aren't rich, this cable is very well made and sounds great. It is well balanced from top to bottom as well as very organic and dynamic.
Pay no attention to the "subwoofer cable" in the title. If I had looked closer sooner, I would have bought it sooner. That's just Chinese language error.
I'm not surprised. They clearly show you a cutaway of how their cables are constructed, and the materials that are used, which is not the norm. One thing that really impresses me is that their RCA's are all copper, not brass. Most importantly, they really let the music through.
I think that we're all tired of hearing that this or that cable "blew away" another without a description of what is actually so good. I am sure that there are digital RCA cables that better this somewhere, but the price is likely far more. From treble to bass, this cable lets all of the color, texture and dynamic impact in the music through, more so than any other digital cable I have used, and the price for what you get is ridiculously low.
As a very old timer started in audio in the mid 70s as a sales person, then store manager, eventually partner in Audio Tweakers. My partner had the $$$$$$ to buy whatever he wanted, including a dedicated listening room in his custom built house designed by an architect. It was an interesting experience to hear the cream of the cream on a regular basis, also he swapped gear and cables frequently. IMO, without a specific designed room, putting together a SOTA system is a crap shoot. My system for 3+ years now consists of; Audiolab 6000, Audio Alchemy DP-1 + PS 5, EVS 1200 or a LSA Voyager GaN 350 (both dual mono), and Emerald Physics 3.4s open baffle, no sub/s. Sadly I managed to blow one channel of the Voyager, so all wire upgrades have been with the EVS 1200, which continues to show how excellent this $2700 class D IcePower AS 1200s amp really is. And therein lies the dilemma for most hi-end enthusiasts, not realizing cables can make or break a system, and so they get trapped in a revolving door of swapping components, when most likely the issue is the room, then the cables and wires
Any latest and greatest alibaba cables? I need new cables all around (power, speaker, XLR, RCA) and am looking at the Odin 2 and Valhalla 2 offerings from RM Digital. (I get that these are knock-offs, I don't care)
Go to the ALIEXPRESS website and check out these fake “NORDOST” ODIN GOLD power cables video pushing them for sale online.
Keep in mind that Ag bullion is selling at over $USD 2000 / oz when you check out and compare the AliExpress “princely” sales price at the link below at $CAD 54.96 … wow …. What a great deal!😅
Pay particular attention to the shite build connector plug along with the “made in USA” stamped on it, shite Litz cable build, and the absence of cable sheathing.
10+ pieces, extra 3% off
Nordost Odin Gold Hifi Power Cord Audio High Fidelity Fever Power Cable Schuko Version Power Line
If anyone wants to see what FAKE COUNTERFEIT Cardas interconnect cables look like, go to aliexpress right now, and type in "Cardas" or "Cardas RCA" or "Cardas XLR". Good grief, now there is 5x more than last year. All crap junk.
Every single pair on the site listed right now is absolutely 100% fake counterfeit garbage. I won't share how or ways to identify it online, NOT to give them a leg up on perfecting their craft of fakeness, but any Cardas owner or a sharp eye can see it on every single ad just studying the photos and text alone. There are at least 4-5 ways to identify the fakeness by studying closely without even cutting them open.
If you do buy a set, before you throw them in the garbage, send them to Cardas to hang on their fake cable display, and so they can add more photos on their site. .
Given our concerns about keeping our cable makers going, what are the ethics of buying cables used on sites like this rather than new, directly from the manufacturer? Can it be justified by the hope that the money will eventually trickle up to the producers if that money eventually ends up in the hands of someone who will is selling their stuff to get enough money to buy something new?
Otherwise, is it much better than buying counterfeits as long as one acknowledges that they are precisely that? (I prefer to buy used rather than counterfeits, although just to try it I have a couple of "$12" name-brand interconnects on order. When they arrive, I will write "Fake" next to the brand so there is no mistaking their origin.)
But, that said, should we be also beating ourselves up for trying to score equipment we desire but can't afford new rather than buying only what we can afford at list price?
@decooney A buyer doesn't need a sharp eye, or even know what a real Cardas cable is supposed to look like. The fact they are buying on Ali Express means the cable is a knock off. Surely no one believes they are getting the real thing for $50. And if they do, then they deserve exactly what they get.
@bigtwin"And if they do, then they deserve exactly what they get."
I read some posts a while back by someone thinking they scored a real pair of Cardas Clear Sky interconnects at a great deal. Hopefully you are correct that most know better than to fall for it.
Pretty soon , some one like you (like I did) will hear (if you open your ears) like I did, the CCC sound as good if not better , then the $700.00 speaker cables I have had. The music is what it's all about!!!!! Do not poke that stick in your ear!!!!
"I’m not interested in buying fake cables just to pretend I have Cardas or Nordost. Just looking for a good value cable."
Tubeguy76:
You could do much worse than purchasing the Aliexpress Accuphase 40th cables, both power and interconnect.
I started off with one of the power cables and now have 6 of them. Was using the Chinese Nordost Odin Gold RCA's (yeah for $50-$60, I knew that I was not buying the real thing which Nordost sells for $30K ;)) and they had replaced some very well known and highly regarded $300-$400 IC's but bought a few of the Accuphase IC's-they are ridiculously inexpensive at around $25 pair-and felt them to be an improvement on the fake Odin Golds (which I compared to real Nordost Valhalla version 1 in a friend's much more expensive system and actually preferred the Chinese cables), which have now moved to my secondary system.
Also splurged on the Accuphase USB cable and it did not disappoint either.
Probably wouldn't spring for the speaker cables though and am not making any changes there at the moment-currently using cryoed Mogami 3103 and no real desire to change-it is a very good cable.
On the Ali speaker cables, the ones that usually get the most buzz are the ribbon Valhallas. Have a few friends using those, one in a very high end system (Transrotor turntable with Reed arm, Threshold amplification, top of the line Coincident speakers etc.), and they do sound very good.
As I've mentioned here before, the Accuphase power cable is being sold under a different name here on Audiogon for $350 and up (depending on length) with some rave reviews. Or you can purchase on Ali direct for about $40-$50.
@hdm Thank you, that's the feedback I was looking for, much appreciated. I was looking at the Accuphase cables and the ribbon Valhallas so it seems I'm on the right track.
@tubeguy76 i feel these Chinese Odin cables are exceptional value and sound very good. Better than many more expensive lines. I bought the Valhalla ribbon white speaker cables and they are excellent once broken in at 75 + hours. Mine were branded Audiocrast but identical. I had them on both my systems and was very happy. Bested Nordost Odin 2 silver round speaker cables, Mogami and Dh labs Q-10 very noticeably. I moved on in my main system when I Came across a used pair of Goertz MI 3 copper ribbon speaker cables. They have amazing performance for their price…not to get sidetracked. Also have several Odin gold power cables, Odin gold IC’s, Odin silver IC and ethernet. All perform way a over their price and compare very favorably to my favorite cable line Audio Envy. Some SS components the Odin’s sound as good or better than AE. Tube gear AE all the way. Just my experience with my systems, ears, and taste preference.
Not his first mistake of this kind. If you're going to go to the trouble of trying to impress with an obscure slang, at least look up how to spell it correctly.
I never bought Chinese counterfeit cables with Occidental brand names...
We cannot resold them first...for the evident reason alluded to by audphile1
I know it is counterfeit... Then it may be good cable but i will feel bad reading the false "branded name "...Disturbing evident truth i refuse to live with ... ( i dont judge anyone here and if someone dont resold it i understand why he want to try it by curiosity )
What i did is buying Chinese cables with Chinese design name ...Problem solved ...😎
I was satisfied with no disturbing false branded name ..
If the Chinese can make a good cable anyway they can sell it too with a Chinese name and they did at even a lowest price ... 😊
Then there is no real advantage to buy counterfeit Chinese cables...
On the opposite there is good reason to buy some of their low cost cables ...
They dont change the cable technology because they put a counterfeit branded name with more flashy parts ...😊
Yeah not sure who the “sprook” comment was for but it seems these cables are actually good and they should be branded differently. To me, the draw is that they work well, not that they’re using high end branding. I suppose I’m part of the problem, but, I’m not a customer for the big brands and likely never will be.
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