The entire premise of this discussion is comical. A thread about the danger of counterfeit entries into what is already a totally fraudulent industry. It reminds me of the scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian where women (who are actually men, aka. the Monty Python guys) dress up and act like men so they can get into the stoning. It's so absurd, it's funny!
Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
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Yes, much ado about nothing. Tempest in a teapot. Sturm und Drang. Angst in their pants. Brought to you by the usual suspects. How many times does this subject have to come up? The rest of the audio world (the other 98% who don't post and read this just for grins & giggles) goes about their merry way, grateful that they never contributed and instead, enjoy the fruits of their labor buying what they want. All the best, |
I rest my case regardless of if you regret it or not.
jerryg1233,411 posts @evank More than you, clearly. Love your vulgarity and @roxy54 make no disparaging remarks about your language. Guess it is the typical hypocrisy of people of questionable ethics and integrity. We cannot avoid all things from China (PRC), but I make an effort, unlike you. All appliances in my home are Bosch, hand tools all Bosch, Snap-On and OTC. All audio equipment is from Europe and North America. I will admit I spend $20.00 and bought one of these fake cables and regret it.
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@evank , Every. Single. Time. He trolls, gets angrier, starts cursing and damning people, recites BS talking points and then has the gall to ask the mods to come and close the thread when he doesn't get anywhere. Entirely projection on his part when it comes to "noise". Not even remotely original in his insults too. Like that of a 12 year old. All the best, |
"... All appliances in my home are Bosch, hand tools all Bosch, Snap-On and OTC. All audio equipment is from Europe and North America. ... " Who cares? " ... I will admit I spend $20.00 and bought one of these fake cables and regret it." Regretting it doesn't alter that fact that you are a hypocrite. |
This was not originally a thread about the dangers of counterfeit merch. It was a thread about the unexpectedly high sound quality of certain obviously misbranded cables available on Ali Baba — Neardost, etc. And it was an interesting and informative thread at that. But then …. Well you know the rest. Not a troll, more a toad. Next thing I know, I’m stepping over the junkies in the streets in LA. And I live on the east coast, so that’s no mean feat. I do wonder, though, what is proper etiquette when one encounters junkies on the LA streets. Perhaps different rules apply out west. That would be good info to have prior to my next visit. |
@maxima95 at least I admit it and I only spent $20.00 how about you? Regretting it means I have morals and have remorse. Unlike you. And I do not care a thing about you. |
I appreciate the information that you provided in your post. I was aware of some of it, and some of it was new to me. I believe that in many cases the materials used in the counterfeit cables are inferior. It may be that the reason many users find their performance t be better than expected is that they are using a similar geometry to that of the original (eg Nordost). I will admit that one of a set of fake Nordost RCA interconnects that I bought from Aliexpress went bad on me early on. In spite of that, I think that members should be aware that there are legitimate, well-built cables from Chinese manufacturers, and one of those is Xangsane. I bought a set of silver RCA interconnects on the advice of another member, and they are truly a high performing product for a reasonable price. There are a couple of others. They represent a good value for those of us who can't afford the premium American brands. |
fake MIC (made in China) cables are low quality copper, tin, with awful soldering etc. There are reputable brands from China such as Douk Audio. I believe some others also sell cables... Why go for made in China when you could go for made in Japan? Canare, Belden, Amphenol or just make your own cables! A custom set of cables can be made by a shop owner; real silver, get your jeweler to produce wire from silver bars. Then buy REAN connectors (balanced or RCAs) at just the right lengths. Choose the best type of insulation and cable jacket material. That’s what I did. |
Ok back to how the cables sound and compare….gave the Audiocrast (Valhalla like copy) ribbon speaker cable a try. Build quality and connectors very good. Sound quality is great and beats the pair of Odin 2 speaker cables I was using by quite a bit. Also a step in the right direction that these don’t use the Nordost brand name but the ribbon cables are identical. For those who are critical of Chinese quality you need to actually listen to them or zip it. Their cables sound fantastic and at very nice price points. Enjoying another step up in SQ.
US $45.00 25％ Off | Audiocrast 7N OCC Flat Silver Plated Speaker Cable HIFI Loudspeaker Cable Spade to Spade Y Plug Left Right Channel Cable |
@mr_bill Yes sound labs…just to clarify they were Chinese copy Odin 2 speakers cables not the real deal of course! |
Could you clarify something? You are saying Audiocrast speaker cables sound better than authentic $20K + speaker cables? I personally had some authentic Nordost Odin 2 interconnects in my system for a couple weeks… and I find it hard to believe some $75 knock off are competitive. I did buy some Odin 2 knock offs… and they in no way competed with the real thing. |
@ghdprentice already did read post prior to your post. 👌 |
Can't comment on authentic Nordost Odin 2 as have no experience with it, but as I posted upthread, I compared the Chinese Odin Gold RCA interconnects (2 sets) in a friends system directly with authentic/real Nordost Valhalla V1. In that system the Chinese OG replaced the Valhalla 1 running from an Allnic Phono Preamp (can't recall the model number but it's higher up in the Allnic range and retailing at around $10K I believe) to an Allnic L-10000 linestage and then from the L-10000 to a Bryston 14B Cubed power amp. Turntable was a Clearaudio Innovation with Universal Tonearm and Clearaudio's top of the line MM cartridge. Speakers were big B&W floorstander Diamonds. A very nice system. This was not a blind test but rather sighted. There were 4 of us there and the 3 others felt the Valhalla 1 was a bit more detailed (but in no way really embarrassing the Chinese Odin Gold). That was possible but I felt that the detail may have been more distortion related than real and I thought the Chinese Odin Gold had a much quieter, blacker background and sounded noticeably smoother, more refined and more natural than the real Valhalla 1. And that was before I cryoed the Chinese Neardost and had it burned in on an Audiodharma cable cooker, which improved it further (more extended at both frequency extremes, more detailed midrange while still retaining all the smoothness, and a much wider soundstage). I really felt that the real Valhalla 1 would end up giving me listening fatigue over longer sessions. Cost on the Neardost Odin Gold for two pairs of RCA's: about $80. Cost for the two sets of real Valhalla 1 purchased a few years ago used: about $3,000 as I recall. The Chinese Odin Gold was not only competitive: I wouldn't trade it even for the real Valhalla, unless of course I was going to pawn off the real Valhalla on some poor unsuspecting sucker for some ridiculous price and then just buy another couple of sets of the Chinese OG. Just another experience that those with an open mind might want to consider. I have no experience with any Aliexpress Neardosts other than the Odin Gold RCA interconnects so the rest of the stuff may well be junk, but I really like the Chinese Odin Golds, and sold off some much more expensive IC's-but not in the same cost league as the Nordost Valhalla's-after buying just one set of the fake Odin Golds to experiment with. I then bought 5 more sets to completely outfit both systems in the house and pocketed about $500 after selling 2 pairs of reasonably well known IC's that I was using in the main system from a North American manufacturer. FWIW, I have a couple of friends who are also using the Audiocrast ribbon speaker cables mentioned above who also really like them. I think I'd take a run at those if I felt like changing speaker cables, as opposed to the fake Odin Gold speaker cables which seem to get a bit more of a lukewarm review. But I'm reasonably happy with my current speaker cables so will sit tight.
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I've just ordered the chinese "Valhalla" speaker cable. They call it "Valhalla" but it's in fact an exact copy of the Heimdall speaker cable. The wire seems identical to the point that one could believe both come from the same factory. Of course it isn't the case. They are supposed to be exceptionally good for the price and even in absolute terms. There is no fake branding on the cable, no sign of the Nordost logo, just an identical wire. Looking forward to receive it! |
The actual Nordost Valhalla was replaced by Odin which was replaced by Odin 2, I bought (Ali version) after quite a few months, I tried the Odin 2 Gold, which added some much needed warmth in my all SS system. I also have the Odin digital between transport and DAC. It is amazing, but would love to try Odin Gold, but no one seems to make it |
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I agree having upgraded my entire system about a year ago with Ali-E cables (mostly Odin 2 and Odin 1 Coax, only because I haven't found it in Odin 2). Keep in mind Ali-E is word of mouth, whereas the much more expensive cable companies spend a small fortune in monthly advertising, promoting at audio shows, long term loans to reviewers... |
I think that we've been through all of that a long time ago, and I never said that it was good to use another company's name. What I did say was that I don't believe that Nordost lost a penny from the illegal use of their name because they are two different customers. Anyway, I don't have any interest in those counterfeit products now, but I do think that Xangsane makes great interconnects and digital cables for a very low price. I hope that clarifies things for you. |
@roxy54 I share the same impression: I doubt Nordost lost a penny from the counterfeits. Two different ends of the market. Budget brands, on the other hand, might have lost a few customers. I've been using a lot of those Odin counterfeits but have since switched to Xangsane pure silver which is a phenomenal cable (interconnects and digital cable) Still using "Odin" power cables I used Duelund speaker cable for a while but I was not fully satisfied. The similarly priced "Valhalla 1" SC sounds much better to my ears. But at least there's no fake Nordost branding on it :) |
I purchased; FURUTECH Flagship OCC HIFI Speaker Cable Fever Grade Audio Cable from China & from here in the States, both equal lengths. The cable price I paid for in the States were 10x’s more then the cable from China. The bottom line is, that there’s no difference whatsoever between the two! Makes me wonder if we're all getting ripped off? |
Bit of a contradiction from your August Post. In August it was the best cable ever and come October you're getting ripped off? I purchased; FURUTECH Flagship OCC HIFI Speaker Cable Fever Grade Audio Cable from China & from here in the States, both equal lengths. The cable price I paid for in the States were 10x’s more then the cable from China. The bottom line is, that there’s no difference whatsoever between the two! Makes me wonder if we're all getting ripped off?
danmar123331 posts ^^^^^^^^^^^^^; last weekend I pulled the other cable, now both channels have the Furutech. I can't get over how good this cable is. Worth every penny, the best upgrade I've done in years! I just might rewire my surround speakers.. Down the Rabbit hole again! LOL |
@mr_bill here you go; I was running Monoprice 4/12 to my LaScala lls & was happy until I went with Furutech Flagship OCC HIFI Speaker Cable Fever grade, which is 2/12 wire. I noticed a sense of clarity & openness. Highly recommend. |
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@roxy54 , with nakamichi banana plugs. What's the difference? |
What’s the difference? You must be kidding. First of all, those Nakamichi bananas are counterfeit. They don’t make them. I know that because I bought some of them myself a few years ago. Second, as you should know by now, everything makes a difference. Those bananas are made of brass not copper, and if they were copper, they would sound different depending on what they were plated with. If the wire is as good as you say, I think it would deserve some good quality copper terminations. |
@roxy54 From my amp to my crossovers & then my speaker terminals, it's all brass. So I'll stay with what works for me. There's no getting around it..... |
Also, your not speaking on deaf ears. I really don’t think I can hear the difference, but I did when I change the wire! I’m a FIRM believer to get the most out of my system no matter what the cost would be. I just can’t fathom getting, Furutech CF-202R & NCF for $600.00 or KLEI Classic Harmony Banana Plugs for $180.00. Also every connection in my system is treated with Stabilant 22. 😉 |
