As usually happens on these forums: after few dozen constructive posts, the discussion about the Chinese cables’ sonic merits has smoothly transformed into accusation of the penis envy....😀🤣
Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
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+1 @kot Never mind that my post had nothing to do with envy of any sort, let alone penis envy. Maybe he just likes thinking about them. |
I think it’s kind of a cool ’marketing 101’ thought experiment to hear the various opinions expressed here. And audio cables are the perfect product. Most would agree that a $10,000 power cord (authentic) is a bit silly, even if most would agree after listening that the cord is an amazing addition to any system. And most would agree that a Chinese knock off at $30 virtually guarantees that it will not sound anything like the original. Still, the low price is intriguing, even so low as to induce some to experiment to see just ’how good’ the attempted replica is. Of course there are mixed results from "pretty damn good" to "plastic junk"; likely realizing that similar performance could be achieved with cheap Walmart or Amazon cables. What is most interesting to me is just where to buyers draw their own "line" in deciding price|experimentation|value|sound. For example, some would not spend $30 on an obvious fake (Nordost Valhalla/Odin PC), (too cheap), but would spend $350 on what is very likely a fake Audioquest Dragon|Firebird. Or $130 on an, ahem.. replica Shunyata Snake or Kubala Sosna or Kharma or Siltech. Interesting thoughts and thread. 😄
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I never said they sound the same. Those are your words @jerryg123 . |
Please don't judge the price of PCs by materials used in PCs. My Wavetouch PC is pretty expensive. Why? I invested lots of money, my time and effort to make the best sounding PC and cables. The result -- my wife wowed while we were listening below music. Original music for reference Below is an excellent sample with more money and effort. Alex/Wavetouch |
@kot Further to your earlier inquiry, I have a set of phony AQ Dragons. Yesterday I switched them back out for Fidelium Silversmiths, which I had previously used in my system. The latter sound more open and less grainy to me. Not really a close call, at least to my ears. |
I was always wary of Aliexpress because the site looks kind sleazy and the delivery times are often over a month. If they send a defective item it could take months to resolve if it could be resolved at all. After reading some of the postings here I ordered a nordin power cable for $100 a couple of weeks ago, it was just shipped a few days ago and it's still in china. Just the wait alone sucks. I hope I get lucky and it's a quality cord. If it is I will consider them for tweaks and upgrades in the future. |
IMO a counterfeit cable buyer says more about the buyer then the SQ or quality of the cable. The question is why would anyone knowingly buy a "fake" cable? They might claim curiosity or some might even believe they are able to copy the R&D of the cable makers. I think many want brand recognition most can't afford a true "Valhalla" cable and fewer won't pay the cost of admission for various reasons. Why not just buy Mogami cables and be done, if you are a cable "denier" "law of diminishing returns" or "snake oil" proponent? |
@disc Thanks!👍 |
" Why not just buy Mogami cables and be done" The answer to your question is that many who can’t afford the real thing are curious about the sound of an imitation that is built in a similar way. It’s not too hard to understand. That said, I took the advice of another poster here and purchased a set of silver Xangsane interconnects which are self-branded, not fake anything, and they are amazingly good sounding and well made for $110.00. There are some good genuine Chinese made audio products. |
@roxy54 Thx for the civil reply. My point was if one does not believe there is any SQ difference between any cable or power cord why even bother wasting time and money buying anything but the least expensive. |
Excuse me, there are a number of people who are not cable deniers who purchase Mogami, Canare and other well known cables and think they are very good. Let's put it this way, I have not heard of any recording studios using your knock off Chinese fakes, but I understand that many if not most use Mogami and Canare.
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@jetter Was not implying disrespect to Mogami cable users. Mogami was just an example could have mentioned Blue Jeans Cables ect. |
@dayglow I was reading too much into what you wrote. Thanks for letting me know. No problem at all! |
As a recent Mogami 3103 cable purchaser with an enjoyable mid-fi system using WiFi Auris Sabre DAC streamer, a serviced ‘80s pro audio solid state amp with lots of head room, a small REL sub and a pair of beautiful Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary speakers, I’ve enjoyed this thread :) Blessed only with average ears, I instantly heard an increase in current reaching the Lintons, as compared to Amazon 12 gauge wire. Wasn’t instantly all good, as the speakers lost some imaging until I reduced the gain coming into the vintage Crown amp from the DAC. |
The question is why would anyone knowingly buy a "fake" cable? They might claim curiosity or some might even believe they are able to copy the R&D of the cable makers. I think many want brand recognition most can’t afford a true "Valhalla" cable and fewer won’t pay the cost of admission for various reasons. I really don’t like to be put on the defensive from somebody I don’t know and who I suspect is an arrogant snob. So if you must know I have been buying emotiva power cords and have capped my budget to around $100 or less. I have ordered the fake nordost because somebody on this thread bought one and said the quality is decent. So not having much to lose it sounded like it was worth a try, I won’t be receiving it untill the end of the month so we will see. I don’t have a ton of money to spend but I’m always tweaking and upgrading because it’s fun and just part of the hobby. Getting a nordost fake or real does not give me bragging rights because nobody I know gives 2 shits or would know that a nordost power cord is a high end product. I live in a small rural town in N.H. by the Canadian border and I don’t know anybody that is an audio enthusiast. You my friend just sound like a troll. |
I didn’t buy the cables to say to my friends" look at me I have 40,000-dollar cables". My friends know I can’t afford them and I’m not ashamed to say I can’t. I bought them because everyone said they sound great, and they do. I could care less who made them. I’m sure all the people posting against them have purchased years ago pirated movies off the street at one time or another. And if you say you never did your full of crap. |
Don't let the trolls get under your skin. They seem to not have anything better to do with their lack of knowledge. That said from day one Ive said it is wrong to have used the exact name, when something like NEARdost would have gotten the point across FYI Valhalla is probably a 10 yo design. Odin 2 'should' be much better, and still cheap. That's what Im using over darned expensive WireWorld speaker cables and XLR interconnects, and over a Pangea Premier XL coax cable (MSRP $169) but the Odin 2 coax was half that, so I tried it alone (and was thoroughly impressed) before I slowly replaced all my cables. |
@tweak1 I had just discovered what a difference that power cables make. I was happy with the emotiva cables, I didn't know they made that much of a difference. So I wanted to try some other different cables and I bought a wireworld stratus 7 which to seemed about on the same level as the emotiva's. So now because I read a post where someone bought a cable from aliexpress and basicly said the quality was good for a fake. So I ordered one. It takes forever it's still in China. |
Never as we do not own a TV. Can tell you do not care who made it, or chat child made it, or what conflict minerals were used to make it. Sold my wife’s Tesla once I researched conflict materials content. All about you and your cheap asses.
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This is a crazy thread but I’ll throw my 2 bits in. I think it’s wrong for companies — any companies — to pass off their work under someone else’s brand. It’s also wrong to buy that stuff because it just encourages more trademark infringement and devalues real goods by real brands. Never mind how it’s then used in secondary markets to rip off unsuspecting buyers. Just think of poor Jay getting hustled. ;-) But there are products on Ali Express that are real products under their own brand name that are well made and budget friendly. Haven’t bought any cables but have purchased really good linear power supplies. Chinese manufacturing is very high quality and in many cases the parts are equivalent to what other brands are selling. I have no problem buying those products but won’t spend my money on brand knock-offs. If you do, that’s your choice but won’t be mine. |
I started out with Odin silver 2s, but now use a Odin gold pc on my cd transport and to my amp (all ordered from DIY HiFi- very good service, but ~ 3 weeks) then I decided to try Odin gold speaker cables, which were only available from Goltech, who has jerked me around for a couple weeks now, making excuses: ETA now Feb 19th Even though China took 'liberties' copying the name and wood blocks, they represent seriously good value. You just have to be willing to wait about a month for delivery to FL, probably a week shorter to the left coast |
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@evank More than you, clearly. Love your vulgarity and @roxy54 make no disparaging remarks about your language. Guess it is the typical hypocrisy of people of questionable ethics and integrity. We cannot avoid all things from China (PRC), but I make an effort, unlike you. All appliances in my home are Bosch, hand tools all Bosch, Snap-On and OTC. All audio equipment is from Europe and North America. I will admit I spend $20.00 and bought one of these fake cables and regret it.
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Counterfeit cables news on KIMBER and CARDAS websites speaks volumes.These two are 100% all made in USA premium OEMs. and they have posted news of the POS build and illegal counterfeit fakes. Common denominator in both : - ALIBABA and ALIEXPRESS are all crap fakes , and everything shipped out of Hong Kong and China is a fake, These cheap build counterfeit fakes are produced with the cheapest materials and build quality they can get away with , ..go check out the KIMBER crap build example pics and the CARDAS last line reproduced here too. ( LOL) The poster child of what a buyer can actually get: see KIMBER pic about gently sanding a counterfeit fake silver KIMBER cable that reveals it to be just POS cheaply tinned cheap-as-you-can find-it hardware store crummy grade copper made to look like silver cables. https://kimber.com/counterfeits https://www.cardas.com/counterfeit
KIMBER COUNTERFEIT CABLES Some things to look out for when purchasing Kimber Kable online:
CARDAS Counterfeit CablesWe’re proud that Cardas cables retain high resale value, even years after their production. But unfortunately, some unscrupulous opportunists prey upon unsuspecting consumers by selling counterfeits of our cables. Some of these fakes are remarkably well done, visually, and even come in authentic looking packaging. Others barely try, slapping "Cardas" on cables that don’t look like anything we’ve ever made. This is a buyer-be-ware situation. Some buyers are able to return their counterfeit products for a refund. But most are left without recourse. How can I avoid counterfeits? Work at Cardas Audio for at least 10 years 😁. Our long-term employees can usually spot a fake about as fast as a mother can recognize her own child. Assuming you don’t work here (and statistically, you probably don’t), avoid sites like eBay and AliExpress. Every month we report dozens of obvious fakes using eBay’s reporting system, and nothing ever happens. Not a single post is removed, not a single seller is sanctioned. They just don’t care. AliExpress goes one further by having a broken reporting system. They pretend to have a mechanism for reporting counterfeits, but it is littered with dead links and buttons that can’t be clicked. they REALLY don’t care. More trustworthy sources of second hand gear are Audiogon in the US and Canuck Audio Mart in Canada. Fakes rarely show up on these sites, and when they do, they’re both quick to remove them. There are probably trustworthy audio-focused sites in other countries. If you know of one, send us a link. If it looks good to us, we’ll list it here. And of course, consider buying from a Cardas dealer. Many of our dealers take trade-ins, and might have pre-owned cables. Are some cables more counterfeited than others? Yes. The two most commonly counterfeited Cardas cables are Hexlink and Clear Light. Hexlink was a flagship cable from many years ago. There were many iterations, all using the word "Hexlink". It is, by far, the most faked cable. So much so that the majority of listings for Cardas Hexlink cables are fraudulent. The counterfeiters have produced more fake Hexlink than we ever made of the real thing. Clear Light is a more recent cable, and for whatever reason, is now quite commonly counterfeited. And whereas Hexlink fakes stand out (to us) like a sore thumb and can almost always be identified from pictures, Clear Light fakes are really well done (on the outside. Inside is garbage wire), including authentic looking packaging and documentation. Be very cautious when considering the purchase of any cable labeled as Hexlink or Clear Light. What sort of wire is inside counterfeit cables? Bad wire. We’ve taken apart many counterfeits, and what we find is just hardware-store wire, at best.
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We’ll this thread tosses the credibility out the window for this site. Surprised @tammyholt or another admin has not killed this thread. If I were a cable manufacturer/advertiser of any stature I would demand that this thread be taken down due to the negative impact it has on legitimate companies that offer fair pricing on quality products. Not fake chit from China. Not saying there are not good legitimate cable manufacturers in China or even on the PRC owned sites like Aliexpress or Alibaba.
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