I watched the Cardas video. It was interesting but I must say, $10,000 for a four foot length of the Clear Beyound Speaker Cable???? I guess if you have $500,000+ invested in your system you could justify, and afford, 10K - 20K for a set of speaker cables. But for the average person? And is the impovement in sound, over a $1000 cable going to be that much? I have gone down this rabbit hole many times and can't honestly say I have ever heard a differnce. But that's just my experience.
Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
Showing 37 responses by bigtwin
Just looking on Ali Express at Nordost Odin 2 7N sterling silver flagship audio speaker cable HiFi main speaker amplifier cable gold-plated plug. The claim to be using pure Sterling Silver seems a bit rich (on un intended). At the cost of silver today, does anyone expect us to belive the claim, given an 8 foot pair is only +/- $75 U.S.? Ayone bought these and if so what's your experience with them? Thanks. |
@phastm3 Nice collection of systems. I've posted similar pictures and had to explain I don't own all the equipment at the same time. What are those silver discs you have sitting on top of a lot of things? |
On a slightly different note from copies of US made cables, what about the cables that are clearly marked as made in China. Many look to be very well made and a fraction of the cost of US product? And still others are almost as expensive. I purchased a 5 meter RCA cable from Morrow, on sale at 55% off and it still set me back $800 Canadian. I see a Chinese made cable at a slighly higher price, offering PURE silver wiring. Set aside the argument of silver vs copper as th better choice, has anyone had first hand experience with these higher priced, made in China cables?
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@spenav I understand your comment and would agree if looking at $100 product. Would still like to hear from people having first hand experience with the "hign end" Chinese made cables. I assume most of the folks on this site are able to tell the difference between quality made and shoddy goods. Returning something to China would be a real pain? No sence in me making a bad choice if someone here can give some advice? |
@juanmanuelfangioii Thanks for that tip. I just looked at their site. A similar product, being copper & silver plate, is $350 for a 1.5 meter length. I have sent them a message to see if they will build the 5 meter cables I require. This is the cable I am looking at from China. 5 meters pair for $168 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004650557944.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.68e638da540cNB&mp=1
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So I'll go out on a limb here and state what should be obvious to all. There are too many comments along this line "You are absolutely right. They are not replicas. I opened a Neardost gold power cable and confirmed that. On the other hand, these power cables have no right to sound the way they do. That part I cannot explain. I know it’s not confirmation or expectation bias, I am always honest with myself. Just cannot unhear what I am hearing. What’s the secret sauce?" When we all know these are not the original cables being sold for pennies on the dollar, is it not apparent that you don't need to have fancy treated copper, gold plated connectors and a litany of other materials to get great sound? Cardas $10,000 cables or $200 from China. A difference you can hear worth $9800? The story of the Emperor with no clothes comes to mind. And before anyone starts jumping on the cables make a difference bandwagon, go back and re read the entire thread. IMHO. |
@evank The "real" picture has been meticulously prepared by Furutech to showcase their product. I'm thinking if you took the same care and attention they did, you could make the "fake" cable look almost as good? You're also comparing two different product lines? They make a replica cable that looks identical to the real thing. Same outer casing right down to the lettering of the name. You appear to doing a bit of an apple to orange comparison? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's lots of crap product out there and even the best replicas may not be as good as the real thing. Just not sure if the difference between the real and the good fakes can warrant costing 10 - 20 times as much. |
Here is a conversation I just had with a vendor on AliExpress. Are these cables made with genuine Furutech cable & connectors, or are they simply a high quality immitation? Read 10:47
你好，是我们自己生产的线，是高质量的仿制品。请问您能接受吗？
Hello, it is our own production line, it is a high-quality imitation. Can you accept it? Alibaba Translation 17:27 Yes, as long as the quality is very good. Thanks Read
好的，质量是很好的，感谢您的支持。 OK, the quality is very good, thank you for your support. Alibaba Translation I post again in a month, after I have recieved them and tried them out. |
I've taken the plunge and ordered a few items from Quincrown Audio. They shipped in one day, have answered all questions within hours and UPS have notified me the package is in thier system. Scheduled to arrive in 10 days. Will give a full report after trying them out. Cheap entertainment if nothing else. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/911734184?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.2b9e1802y5jKHg |
Going to eat a little crow here. I have stated I don't hear the differences between cables. Maybe that's because I have been comparing one high quality cable to another. When I first installed my new Chinese cables I thought they sounded good. But tonight I sat down for some critical listening and realized the sound was missing something. It was compressed and the soundstage was smaller. I switched back to my Morrow RCAs and Fidelium speaker cables and BAM the sound was back. So maybe you can't get $2000 sound from a $200 cable. Will the fake cables open up with use? For now I will admit the better quality cables bring better sound. Still doubt spending $5000 on speaker cables would sound much better than my much cheaper Fideliums. |
@derekw_hawaii @rfnoise I did in fact delete two previous posts. As my comments were not supported by my recent listening, I didn't want to be misleading anyone with prior praise of the cables. Like I said, eating crow. I had about 20 hours play on the cables which I know is not enough. I will continue to brake them in using a white noise disc. |
I did buy the Rhodium ones when a few months ago. Have them on my subs. Who can verify any of the claims made re "single crystal copper" whatever that even means. Sounds like a play of OCC but at this price, let's get real. Very solid build and the male ends really grip in the socket. It's very hard to justify spending more, unless you are a firm believer that one good "power" cable is going to change the sound more than any other good power cable. |
Just looking at the Odin Gold Power Cord from RM Digital Store. In Canadian dollars they are asking $249 for a 1 meter cord. Most other sites calling their product Odin Gold are $50 - $60 CDN. That's a huge price difference with RM and brings their product in line with many US or Canadian made power cords. I spent a few hundred dollars on Furutech knock offs and they greatly diminished the sound of my system. Would be reluctant to spend the kind of money RM is asking? |
@nwres Where are you seeing any specs on this cable? Im on the RM Digital Store site and can find zero information on the construction of the Odin Gold power cord. |
And that is why it's so difficult to buy from the Ali site. You have one cable (site posted above) selling for $50 making these claims: Nordost Odin Gold Hifi Schuko Power Cord Audio High Fidelity Fever Supply Cable US Standard Power Line
Insulation: PTFE(Teflon) Construction: Mechanically tuned spacing, length and Double-Filament, TSC design Conductors: 7 x 17 AWG(Total Sqaure:7.7mm2) Material: 50um Silver-plated 99.999999% Solid Core OFC Cable Power Rating:16A 250V(EU) ,10A 250V / 15A 125V (US ),15A/ 125V - 250V (AU) Overall Shield Coverage: 100% Individually shielded total coverage Velocity of Propagation: 88% Version :EU , US ,AU IEC :16A , 10A ,20A And the next store, RM Digital asking $250 and making these claims: Name: power cord Brand: nordost Model: Odin gold Plug: Gold Plated US / EU Total signal control In the field of sound, RF noise and electromagnetic waves are the biggest threats to signal degradation. Through the American music ribbon nordost's unique comprehensive signal control technology, each Odin gold Odin conductor will be wrapped by multi-layer gold-plated ribbon shielding network through a complex and uniform unique method, combined with the patented hollo: plug connector terminal, which can provide 100% total shielding coverage, so as to ensure the complete transmission of weak details, due positioning and sound of each instrument. When you look at the pictures on both sites, you can wee there are differences in the parts used. Color of lettering on the connector ends is one example. The $50 dollar cable is claiming Silver coating on the wires and Teflon insulation. So you're always wondering who's lying to us. That's a hell of a construction for only $50 CANADIAN and free delivery on top!!!! |
@roxy54 I don't think nwres is talking about silver wire, but rather the name "silver power cord" ?
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@jetter In talks with the vendor, he refered to "thier factory". I assumed he is talking about a Chinese factory. I could be wrong but I think he would have highlighted the fact the wire comes from Japan is that were the case? |
Aside from the cables that are cearly counterfeit, I think the issue rasied around the more expensive, made in China cables like SKW, is an interesting discussion. I have no problem buying high quality at lower prices. Here is an example of power cord I'm considering: The specs are impressive. OCC Copper. 15 strands per run equals 10 AWG. In talks with the vendor he assures the specs are all valid. If you Google OCC Copper you will find there are 20+ factories in China maufacturing wire using the OCC casting process. And at $38 CDN per meter this is a great deal. So why am I so hesitant to believe this product is what it claims? I have no doubts when a Canadian or US vendor tells me they use OCC Copper and charge me 5 times as much. I hate to admit this but I think it's the inherent racist views we have learned to hold againd all things Chinese. I try not to be that person but I can't find any other explanation. It's a sad comment on the world today, or at the very least, on the person the world today is making me. |
My biggest concern with Ali, and this also applies to many of the non knock off products as well, is my doubt of the claims they make. For example, bulk power cable that purports to be 9.999 OCC (not just OFC) copper. Either it's complete B.S. about the wire being used or, and I hate to think this, we are getting royally screwed by North American supplies who charge 10 times the price for the same product claim. Not sure which one makes me feel worse. 🤣 |
First line says NORDOST Odin Pure Silver Then they say Conductor: 10 strands of pure silver Then they say high-quality 99.999999 single crystal copper and 78 micron extruded silver on the surface of 7N OFC In the last claim they seem to mix the terms "single Crystal copper" which should mean OCC copper, with the term 7N OFC which is NOT OCC single crystal. Who know what you are actually getting? |
@jerryg123 you are getting counterfeit garbage from China. Case closed. Based on the many many positive testimonials on this thread, your statement would appear to be incorrect. My own cables have all come from mainstream manufacturers and I have paid the price in $$$ for the privilege. Still, I wonder why I have paid $1000 for a cable that many here claim can be shamed by a $100 from Ali. The very idea of that just rubs me the wrong way. |
@kot They look very intersting so I asked a few questions to the seller. For what it's worth, here's the information: Can you please tell me the following. When you say 16 cores pure silver, is that 16 cores in each cable (total 64 cores) or 16 cores total meaning 4 cores per cable (4 x 4 = 16). Also, what is the purity of the silver? OCC or Oxygen Free. And last, are the wires 100% siver with no copper or are the copper wires with pure silver coating? Thanks you. Read 00:32
one piece cable have 16 cores , 4 pieces cable total have 4*16= 64 cores cable is 100% pure silver cable 100% pure silver with no copper So that looks to be one hell of a cable for the price? Cheers,
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The best line in that video was "I believe these are real Furutech connectors " when he was comparing the real and fake cable male ends. Yup, for $39 dollars you get all fake cable with genuine Furutech connectors. NOT! 🤣 No one is claiming they get getting the real thing from AliExpress but many are saying the fake Nordost coast sound VERY good. So then the real issue for me is always how companies like Nordost can charge $40,000 for a pair of interconnects. Maybe they really do have Fairy Dust in them? |
@jerryg123 Once and for all, I am not a cable denier. I use only brand name, bought from approved retailers, cables in my system. Puritan Ultimate, AudioQuest, Furutech, Morrow and Snake River. I have not personally heard any noticeable improvement in sound with the addition of any of these cables. I hope the collective improvements have helped with the sound of my system. I accept my 68 year old ears may not be able to hear the freaking incredible improvement in sound that some can hear by simply installing a single new power cable. Such as, and I quote, "a huge improvement in the soundstage, both wider and deeper. Near three dimensional. The bass was noticeably tighter. I could really pinpoint each musician and there was just more air between the notes. I was hearing details in the music I had never noticed before" Must be nice. I do take issue with companies that prey on the gullable and charge prices that common sense would say are ridiculous. You want to spend $40,000 on a 3 foot pair of cables? Fill your boots. Prices like that make me look stupid by association. Your opinion is as valid as mine. Makes the world an interesting place.
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@tksteingraber which Ali store did you buy the Valhalla speaker cables from? There seems to be many different cables at different prices, all using the Valhalla name. Thanks. |
@tksteingraber While not being a total denier of cables, as are some members on the site, I must admit I have never once heard a big change in sound when cables have been replaced. Maybe it's because I started out with quality cables? I would love to have the experience I read about on this site. How swapping out an interconnect suddenly brings about these changes/improvements that are just so noticeable. But for me, it just has never happened. It's just been a LOT of money spent, and no big improvement. Keep in mind, my system sounds great. Maybe I just need to accept there isn't really anywhere to go at this point? |
@roxy54 I meant to type "why this thread continues to fascinate ME". Not speaking for anyone else. I have in fact bought some cables from the ALI site. Not the Nordost cables, but the Furutech cables. The sound was dull. Kept them in for awhile but the music was just lacking in every respect. Put my old cables back in (Silversmith Audio's FIDELIUM at the time) and presto, the full sound returned. Would the Ali Valhalla cable prove to be the magic bullet? Common sense tells me no, but........... Do I want to spend even more money chasing the dream? |
@tksteingraber @tweak1 Thanks. The likelihood of the ALI cables sounding better than my VH is pretty slim. The Ali cable is using 7 stands of wire per side. The CHeLA OCC speaker cable is made of 48 individually insulated 24 AWG SOLID OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) copper conductors that are insulated with VH Audio's AirLok� dielectric. VH Audio's AirLok� dielectric is a proprietary form of foamed/cellular Fluoropolymer that has a dielectric constant of LESS than 1.5 and an extremely low dielectric absorption. The 48 OCC copper conductors are braided into VH Audio's Counter Helical Litz Array TM geometry (C.He.L.A.) around a core containing strands of unbleached cotton. This special self-shielding speaker cable geometry results in very low inductance (.011 uH*), reasonable capacitance (230 pF*), and low DCR (1.35 milliohms per foot*). Additionally, the CHeLA geometry results in more symmetrical field interaction between strands vs. conventional braided designs. Aggregate AWG for each grouping of 24 conductors is 11 AWG, and approximate cable diameter is 3/4" (cut and pasted from VH site) I keep coming back to the number of people on this thread who claim these inexpensive replicas are the best sounding cables they have heard. Not sure why this thread continues to fascinate. The idea that a $200 Ali cable is going to bring a big improvement in sound is silly? And yet we in the hobby continue to chase the dream regardless of what common sense tells us. Tweak1 Can I ask what "well known/reviewed and expensive cables " you were referring to? Thanks. |
@jtcf I suspect you are correct about having the Ali cable first and then moving on to the Silversmith. That's why I hypothesised that my lack of the wow moment could be the fact I have always started with quality cables. Cheers. |
@mahgister I considered the career path of a Stationary Engineer, but couldn't see a life spent writing greeting cards. 😆 You reference La Belle Province. Are you a fellow Canadian? |
@decooney A buyer doesn't need a sharp eye, or even know what a real Cardas cable is supposed to look like. The fact they are buying on Ali Express means the cable is a knock off. Surely no one believes they are getting the real thing for $50. And if they do, then they deserve exactly what they get. |
@questforhifi I've wondered about that same thing. The Valhalla 2 Reference Speaker Cable is listed at $750 CDN (OCC wire) on the HI FI Audio site. Also listed for $635 CDN (OFC) on the same site. No one seems to have answered your question yet. $750 is a lot of cheese to try out a set of knock off cables. Also not sure that I would ever believe the OCC claim on Ali. They clearly state OFC in the product description. Maybe it just cost $35 extra to type OCC in the title line. 🤣 Nordost Valhalla 2 Reference Speaker Cables OCC Silver Plated Loudspeaker Wire with Gold Plated Serrated Banana Plugs
The Valhalla 2 Reference Speaker Cable consists of twenty-eight conductors divided into four groups of seven. Each conductor is made from solid core 99.999999% oxygen free copper and plated with 85 microns of silver. A Dual Mono-Filament wrap is applied and helically wound around each conductor before a precision FEP jacket is extruded over the outside. The transmission speed of the cable is extremely fast, at 97% the speed of light. V2 exemplifies state of the art technology with very wide bandwidth signals and minimum phase shift. It delivers incredible transient response and dynamic resolution, preserving depth of musical detail and allowing listeners to follow complex recordings with ease. Plug: gold-plated spade connectors or Nordost low-mass Z plugs. |
@audphile1 Your question - what materials are used by the chinese to allow them to produce a Nordost Valhalla or Odin counterfeit they can sell for $50 and still make money, raises a disturbing issue for me. That being, you can actually build a cable for $50 and still turn a profit. The price we pay for cables cannot be supported by the cost to manufacture. IMHO. And I don't have fake cables in my system. I paid thousands and resented the margins every time. We are involved in a hobby that allows manufacturers and vendors to take advantage. Again IMHO. You only need to look at the $7,000,000 power cable to know something is not right.
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@ericgale Please don't ever suggest the deletion of this thread. It's my all time favorite. 18 pages long on the subject of Counterfeit Cables. And best of all, some of the discussion actually pertains to the subject matter. 😂 By the way, I loved your guitar work on Joe Cocker's "Stingray" LP, and Paul Simon's "One Trick Pony". Very tasteful as always. IMHO. Cheers. |
