Class D for a Tube Lover

I hope this doesn't turn into a re-run of "Waiting for Godot", but the much-delayed LSA Voyager GaNFET power amp is now announced as shipping in late May.  At 3K this is as close to your desired budget and desired sound as you're likely to find any time soon.  

Try NuPrime ST-10, reference level amp. I am using it in addition to Rogue M-180 tube monos.

Don't believe the die-hards. The newest Class D amps fulfill the promise of that topology. They consume just a few watts more than they are outputting at any moment. Try the Starke Sound AD-320. Four channels, bridgeable to two, sounds great, huge power & clarity; under $1500. Returnable if you don't like (you will). I have three running a 5.0 system with Linkwitz LX521-4 main speakers, Golden Ear Triton 5 rears, Wharfdale center channel (11 channels of amps); want two more for other systems in the house. They sound as good as the Purifi output modules (I have four channels of those also). Check the Purifi & Starke reviews. I have several class A amps also. The new "Ds" beat 'em.

There is no class d amp that will sound like a class A or tubed amp, sorry.

The issue here is distortion- it is distortion that causes tube amps to sound 'warm' and 'lush' and its distortion that causes traditional solid state amps to sound 'bright' and 'harsh', especially at higher volumes.

Class D amps do not make the same sort of distortion as traditional solid state. As a result, the generalization in the quote above is false. A class D amp will sound like a tube amp if it makes enough 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion to mask the higher orders, even if its THD is two orders of magnitude lower than the tube amp to which it is being compared. If there are non-linearities in the encoding process, you do in fact get the lower ordered harmonics as the primary distortion. Just one example...

@boomerbillone 

The price on the Starke AD-4 320 shows $999 with free shipping as far as I can tell. Looks great and seems to be a hybrid of class d and a/b. When I search here it seems only you come up with any comments about it. How did you hear about this amp? Does the purifi amp you also own have any of the buffers?

If you live around a bigger city, you will likely find some discounted Peachtree products on Facebook Marketplace. If you don't like the sound, you can resell it for around the same price you bought for. Peachtree seems to be one of the most discounted product lines at your price point with a healthy resale market (in comparison to Cambridge Audio for NAD, say). 

I bought a ps audio S300 to use while my Musical Reference RM9 mkii (the best tube amp these ears ever heard) was being repaired... I thought I’d sell it once repaired. However, I kept it and sold my tube amp.

Does the S300 sound as good as that tube amp...? NO. However, I was shocked at how close it came.

It probably helps that I am feeding it with a really nice tube linestage (great synergy).

Ignore those that are making blanket statements against class D.

I didn’t like earlier class D sound either...but at least PS Audio.... and possibly others are now getting some incredible sound out of class D.

I don’t miss the tube replacement costs, heat, the weight, or the extra consumption of energy of tube amps.

My experience is that you can have the best of both worlds... With a nice tube pre.

YMMV

I never realized the likes of Audio Research, Rogue or even PS Audio had Class D amps in their caralogue.  So many brands and models I've never heard of.  Looks like I'll have a lot to look into.  

I've got quite a few different speakers that get rotated out (Dunlavy SC-I, JMR Trente, LS50, Totem M1S, Merlin TSM, C&C Abby, blah blah).  I counted yesterday as I had to rearrange where the speakers are stored and I have 20 pairs.  Stupid, I realize.

So an amp that's able to drive a good variety of speakers is a must.

I primarily listen through Cary tube amps but on a whim, I purchased a Bel Canto Evo2 for my LaScalas. It runs stone cold and provides an incredibly black background with a slightly warm presentation. Sufficient power and nuance to pair with Harbeths and DeVores as well.

I have not figured out whether it is classified as a Class N or Class T. A 300b its not, but I am impressed enough to kick myself for not buying one sooner.

Having been among the very first to order a Voyager, well over 1 year ago, and having heard the many reports that it would be ready by X date, I would not hold my breath that it will be released by the end of May


Now, what you might do is check out what EVS is doing with the Purifi or Rogue amps as a possible stopgap, or just to chill with for several years, if not longer. Many of you know, I bought his EVS 1200 based on IcePower dual mono AS1200 class D modules, and still extremely happy that I did so

http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Purifi_amp_mods.html
hth

I have 20 pairs.

Do you listen to music or just hardware?

So an amp that’s able to drive a good variety of speakers is a must.

As with tube amps, the loudspeaker completes the drive circuit in Class D albeit with different characteristics and by different electrical properties.

Hence one loudspeaker may be chalk while another equally fine product may be cheese with the same amplifier. The exact opposite condition can arise with a different amplifier and the same loudspeakers.

One more PS Audio recommendation. I picked up an older Trio C-100 Integrated amp a few years ago, and recently tried it in my system. It’s actually a really nice sounding amp, and I paid $550 for it (in mint condition). EDIT - by "nice" I mean competitive as a high-end amp. There are a couple companies that offer mods/upgrades that (supposedly) sound even better, too. Underwood HiFi still provides it’s upgrade services on the amp, actually. It is a pretty rare find, but if you can snag one it would be a relatively cheap foray into class D territory.

Thanks for the suggestions.  I didn't realize PS Audio's catalogue had Class D amps.  I guess I never really thought about it until the heat the Cary's created in my music room even this early in springtime where it's still a bit cool to chilly outside got me a bit concerned.  I've had them for probably 4-6 months so not during the summertime.  They will not be in use in another few months.

I've got more amps but they're either tubed or Class A, for the most part.  I do have one amp that I haven't used in a long time that might not generate heat but I honestly do not recall.  May try that one out first after the temperature in the PNW rises.  BTW, it's a Marsh A400S.  And I've got the matching preamp P2000T so that just might be the ticket.  The other preamps I have are both tubes (though small tubes so not too much heat generated).

I realize component matching can be an issue but I'm of the mind that any  component with reasonable quality will play fairly nicely with other components.  I don't think I've ever inserted a piece of gear into my system which caused it to totally suck.  Different?  Sure.  But suck?  Not really.  Maybe I've been lucky or I'm not a critical listener.

I think I listen to music as opposed to hardware.  But I do have a lot of gear.  I just like the stuff. 

Do any of us "need" more than one of anything, really?  

SPEC but they are not cheap.

I own an Audio Research DSI200 class D integrated amp, circa 2010. Beautiful tube-like sound. You can find them used for $2.5k-ish.
Real Audio Research sound. Runs super cool. 200watts to 8 ohm. It’s the only solid state integrated amp ARC ever made, just happens to be class D.

ARC developed all of the class D circuits themselves. Didn’t use third party modules.
I’ll never sell mine even when I eventually upgrade. Paired with Spendor D series it’s glorious 

The tide is turning...

TSUNAMI COMING! 

Another recommendation for Cherry amps.  I have the inline mono King Maraschinos from Digital Amplifier Company.  They sit 12” behind my Spatials.  Best I ave had in my room.  Tommy is a straight shooter.  I am sure you can demo in your system.  Give him a call.

I have one Class A amp and have had two variations of Class D amps.  The Class A amp is significantly smoother than the Ice Powered Class D amp, but the Class D amp with Ice power modules blows it out of the water in terms of raw dynamic power, but it tended to be harsh on the upper end frequencies where the Class A amp shined.
Now lets talk about the other Class D mono blocks I have which do not use Ice Power devices, they use proprietary design output sections which are liquid cooled.   These are the Anthem M1 Class D mono blocks.   These two amps absolutely kill the Ice Powered Class D amp and kill squared the Class A amp.  The Anthem M1's are smoother, cleaner, more accurate and balanced than the Class A amp.   They also have massive output power which is so dynamic that you will hear things that you never heard before.   I'd suggest that you find a pair of these, as they run barely warm to the feel in the middle of summer and consume only 3 watts in standby but under use will deliver 2000 watts per channel at 4 ohms with virtually no distortion.   The only issue will be the cost, these are $7K per pair, therefore well outside of your budget.   But the point is, if you are ever looking to have your cake and eat it too, it is there.

there's a pair of Audio Alchemy DPA-1Ms (class D monoblocks) on AG for $1595. Highly recommended by several quality review magazines

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa9di4-audio-alchemy-dpa-1m-monoblock-power-amp-solid-state

I haven’t seen any recs for Primare integrateds- their latest proprietary class D integrateds sound great to me, much closer to at least a great class A/B integrated than any other class D I’ve heard. If you want rolled off/veiled just get one of the Peachtree class D integrateds. They sound positively .....unoffensive.

Also I would avoid the Rogue Sphinx in any version, my experience echoes the poster who experienced audible hiss - very mediocre sounding amp, the Clones Audio 25irh I had at the time blew it away. 

People, PAY ATTENTION!!!
Class D sonics depend on the load!

At least look at the first graph for the 6 Class D amplifiers below to see how much variation there is into benign standard loads. FAR MORE than the ’NIGHT & DAY’ differences cables make. Real world loudspeakers are MUCH MORE VARIABLE!

PS Audio Stellar M1200 monoblock power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Schiit Audio Aegir power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Marantz Model 30 integrated amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Mytek Brooklyn Amp power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Bel Canto e1X power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Audio Alchemy DPA-1M monoblock power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

Fanboy recommendations are worthless & DOUBLY SO for Class D!!!!

Class D has improved dramatically.  Check out "D Sonics".  Great reviews online.  On a whim I purchased their top monoblocks 3Ma-1500.  Less than $3K new.  On my Sonus Faber Guarneri's they held their own vs my McIntosh MC601's at 1/5 of the cost, and drive my Maggies better than anything I've tried....including the Mc's, Primare and Bryston.  I gave up trying to unseat them.  Great amps.....period. 

I had Wyred 4 Sound amps with class A tube pre amps and it is a good pairing.  W4S tend to be a bit warm also. 
If your speakers are higher sensitivity then a high power amp may not be good pairing as your pre amp will not be in the sweet spot which is typically 12-3 o'clock on the volume dial.

Try this https://6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticimagery/1.html
Not in business any longer. Their class D amps are great. I owned them. Used them with Wilsons sounded great. Also use VAC amps as well .
They sound just as warm

"I run a PS Audio Stellar S300 with a tube pre and find the combination excellent."

Me too, just the same set-up. It's the best sound I've ever enjoyed, so much so that I feel no inclination to leap for the M700 monoblocks. There is something very right about this S300.
I also run vintage Quad II tube amps and the S300 gets much more listening time. It runs cool and is built beautifully.

A sincere 2nd vote for the NAD M22 Class D Amp. I have Class A SS, Tube A/B and the NAD Class D and I find compelling reasons to like them all equally well. The NAD does put off some heat, not sure what amp doesn't honestly. Good luck and if possible, demo before making a final decision. I've been amazed at what a blind listening test will unveil in a familiar room.

Don't give up on tube amps.  Two that come to mind that have a control circuit that allows the tubes to run low temps are Carver Crimson 275 and Linear Tube Audio.  If you're hooked on the tube sound class D may not satisfy you, but try Digital Amplifier Company (DAC) and their lineup.

Ditch the amps you have and just get a PS Audio Sprout100 or a vintage Fisher 500-C with the budget you’ve got.  Will blow away any preamp you can get for your current amps.  

I love my Lyngdorf what was chosen in side-by-side comparisons against both LTA tube amps and a couple of class A and AB amps. I couldn't believe it was the best of the lot, but it absolutely was. I have the TDAI-2170. And another advantage is, you don't need an external DAC so you can save a ton of money on that front too. My analog inputs to it include a Feickert turntable with a whestTWO.2 preamp feed to the analog inputs of the 2170. The analog inputs do not sound "digital" at all. Closest thing I've found that acts like a wire with gain. Seems to add or subtract noting from anything you feed it.

Following up on my new(used) NAD M32. So far, it betters my last DAC/amp combo, the PS Audio DSD DAC + M700 monos. It does so many things right (insert a long string of audiophile descriptors here) and very few things wrong - in fact, nothing to my ears, yet. It is not *warm* but I agree with JA in Stereophile, "[...]what emerged as a consistent signature was a clean, clear quality of sound that stepped out of the music’s way[...]" and "Highly recommended." Purchased for $2450 used, and SafeandSound (a NAD authorized dealer) sometimes has refurbished ones available.

I will be another to recommend the obvious: tubed input stage, Class D output. Rogue and PS Audio do it, and I’m sure some others in what seems to be a growing trend. Or a Class A input, Class D output as an option. Just FYI, I bought the Musical Fidelity amp mentioned earlier and found it brighter than the Class D Teac A-H01 it was supposed to replace (tho the MF had very energetic sound, a nice amp). Just remember that your ears and preferences are yours alone, so maybe get some ideas from others and find the one that suits you. 

I do not have a great frame of reference for this but I added my new D-Sonic amp to my RAAL SR1a headphone system yesterday. The system is composed of the following gear, AudioMirror Tubadour III SE tube DAC | Benchmark HPA4 preamp | D-Sonic m3a-800s.

https://www.d-sonic.com/product/m3a-800s-stereo-amplifier/

I do not plan on using the D-Sonic on my floor standers since I do not have speaker wire that is long enough for a stereo amp (need monos).

However, with the SR1a, which is something that needs taming on the top end. The D-Sonic performed way better than my reference Benchmark AHB2 amp with the SR1a. If 100/100 means 0 fatigue, the AHB2 had 50/100 in the fatigue factor with the gear mentioned above, the D-Sonic was about 90/100. I am very impressed by this amp.

The D-Sonic is definitely a little warmer than the AHB2 which is what I wanted. The power and detail retrieval were exemplary, especially the power provided to the SR1a. On some albums with prominent percussion I thought the sound was more powerful than I have ever heard before on these albums (Signals and Distant Early Warning by RUSH)

For the SR1a system, I will be replacing the HPA4 with the warmer yet CODA 07x preamp and I think that will be the winning combo. The Benchmark gear stays with the floor stander, no fatigue with that speaker and the Benchmark.

Hi my friend! Don't by a used Class D amp. They are all made before the newest and best generation of Class D amps were developed. You can buy new for under $1400. If you catch a "sale" price, even less. The big deal is that Class D amps have finally come to fulfill the promise of the concept. The new generation are really a lot more like AM radio transmitters than a conventional audio amps. Once some fellows who understood UHF and radar gear turned their attention to audio, amazing things began to happen. Purifi Audio (Denmark) now produces an output module that is wining acclaim in other people's products. Starke Sound (USA) offers a complete, ready to go, four channel amp (perfect for two way speakers used with electronic crossovers) that is not tiny and cute, no chrome, no sculptured casework, uses a conventional power supply, is big and heavy, and sings like a bird. To me, the Purifi and the Starke sound nearly identical, and as good or better than anything I ever heard. If anything, the Starke may be very slightly sweeter on the top end. Very.

To paraphrase Meredith Wilson, either amp will, "Grab your woofers, grab your tweeters, in the arms of a dominating irresistible grip and deliver the clearest, cleanest music you have heard in your home." I admit that's a pretty outrageous paraphrase, but it gets the point across, without resorting to "techie" talk. It is the music we want to hear, isn't it?

What amazes me the most is how whatever speaker I drive with either amp, they sound very similar. I have about 12 sets of speakers in the house to play with (and a very tolerant wife), DIY and commercial (Shahanian, Wharfdale, Golden Ear, Spika, a couple more, bookshelfs & floorstanders, There is not a wide difference in "flavor" between them. The amps CONTROL the speaker. These amps are switching tiny bits of 100+ volt "juice" into the voice coils. No speaker can fail to respond to that! And the amps, through the use of large amounts of feedback (the Purifi module has only 13 db of gain), can detect and correct any errors the speaker makes almost instantaneously. The result is extremely low noise, extremely low distortion sound from whatever speakers you are using. Of course, quality matters; but these new Class D designs will get the most from any speaker connected to them. Read the reviews. Best of all, the Starke AD4.320 (four channels, bridgeable at the flip of a switch, phono & balanced inputs, sells for under $1400, brand new, delivered to your home. It's worth a try. The NAD M33 is about $5000.Easy choice? I am interested in the best sound for the money. Ah well, that’s all for now. Happy Listening.

The small and mighty AGD AUDION GaN monoblocks. They changed the way I look at class D. I could write at length about them but as a class A/SET lover, I hold them on the same hollowed ground. Never thought I’d be expressing that sentiment about class D...These are keepers. 

ATI makes nice sounding solid amps that last forever. 

Keep telling yourselves it’s amazing. 

    Class D is so far below the sparkle and relaxing tube sound. 
   It’s a Yugo  against a bmw M5.    There is no comparison!

Why not check out the VTV Purifi Amplifier with custom input buffer. Select the Opamp or Tube input of your choice. Check out my Youtube channel DIY HiFi Life for details.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3kctOR1C3QqHG0IjdHi9_mQlY5XGmuJl

I would also concur with SPEC amps.  As Bjeisen said they are not cheap.  Also they like a higher impedance load.  I would not describe them as tubey but they do sound richly toned with higher impedance speakers like Zu Omen and DeVore O93.

IME class d does not like difficult loads. If you have semi efficient speakers with a fairly benign impedance curve will sound good especially with a tube preamp. 
I had the Lyngdorf integrated and it was an amazing product....... for certain speakers. Ran out of gas on some Dynaudio C20s I had and just sounded soso on some Focals. On some Tektons it was a match made in heaven. I think the amplification section was nothing special but the room correction was fantastic. 

I’m currently looking for a preamp with room correction to pair with my Parasound A21. 

Why not try the VTV 1ET400A Amplifier with VTV Vacuum Tube Buffer. Granted it’s between $2,229.00 – $2,279.00 new, but you do tend to get what you pay for...

I have always admired the Cary 805. I would put the money into NOS or quality new stock tubes. The sound of the 805 is definitely warmish and musical. In many ways it is the opposite of a Class D amp. If you like the 805 sound, don’t loose it. Especially changing to a Class D for $2K or less. You are almost guaranteed to go down in SQ.

I decided to sell my KRELL K-300i integrated today so that freed up the long speaker cables I need to test out my new Class D stereo amp.

https://www.d-sonic.com/product/m3a-800s-stereo-amplifier/

It is now connected to my difficult to drive Thiel CS3.7 floor stander. I first tried my new Gustard X26 Pro (an incredible DAC) into my Benchmark HPA4 preamp and then to the D-Sonic amp. It was more powerful, detailed and a touch warmer than my regular Benchmark AHB2 monos (my reference). However, there was a little edge to the sound that I noticed that is not there in the all Benchmark stack.

I then removed the preamp and went direct to the D-Sonic amp. That edge or hardness was reduced, almost eliminated. I always prefer the volume control on the HPA4 preamp but the Gustard DAC was not bad as a preamp. The D-Sonic benefited with HPA4 removed removed. The Benchmark and D-Sonic do not seem to mix well.

So I now have a $1500 amp with a $1500 DAC and the sound is almost as good as the $9000 of Benchmark gear + $1500 for Gustard  I had before. I think the D-Sonic amp is better served on the Thiel’s than the AHB2 which are not officially rated for 2 Ohm speakers in mono.

I have a SET based preamp coming next week (I hope) that should be great with the D-Sonic. Anyways, this amp has given me confidence to move my great Benchmark stack to my living room system with a speaker that maybe is a better match for the AHB2 specs.

As I mentioned in a prior post the D-Sonic was bought to be used with RAAL SR1a headphones which needs a warm amp to tame that beast. It did do that and now I tested it on the floor stander which was also a winner.

Thanks for the update on the d-sonic.  Sounds like it is a player.  

@audioguy85
"The heat thing with class A is over blown in my opinion...Yes, they generate some heat, but not near enough to impact your comfort in the summer time."

Not over blown for those who run larger high-bias / big transformer full Class-A amplifiers in the summer. Worse with monos or smaller rooms. It can absolutely impact room heat. Many high bias Class-A amp owners have secondary amps to rotate in over summer months.

Hence, all the recent interest in evolving Class-D designs again, even if it’s just "tolerable" to listen to. Glad to read Ralph @Atmosphere is working on this. Put me on the beta-tester list, tube amp guy builds Class-D, yes! 

Thanks, everyone, for the continued suggestions and information on the various amps.

Around what year, in your opinions, did Class D amps come into their own?  

On a side note, I suck!  Here I am getting all this info and I went ahead and ordered the BoyuuRang A50 Mk III because I'm curious about an amp with 300b output tubes.  I have amps that use the 300b as drivers and other tubes as outputs.

Damn Steve Guttenberg!

Sorry, everyone.  Please don't flog me, as I am still in the market for a Class D amp for the summer months.

The AGD Audions aren’t cheap but they’re worth every penny. The sound is stellar clean, transparent and tube-like zero fatigue. I thought I’d just dip in class D to see where we’re at so to speak. I was pleasantly(understatement) surprised.

I have been using tubes for years in both triode and ultra linear modes. I recently bought two Starcrimson monoblock amps from Leo at Orchard Audio who designed and built these tiny gems. I gave up my beloved warm tube sound for sound as clear as glass. I though I would miss that warmth, but I quickly came to love the utter transparency. 

Out of curiosity, and after reading some very favorable reviews, I purchased a NewClear NC1000L.  I was interested in seeing just how Class D sounds.  Bottom line, this is an incredible amplifier,  period.  Beautiful tonality, unbelievable dynamics, and if you’re  a soundstage freak, like me, a huge soundstage.  I’ll let you read the reviews, but IMO, this is a wonderful amplifier that I love, and I’m keeping it!  My highest recommendation!  Definitely check this one out.  Links below.
http://www.newclearaudio.com
 
https://www.tonepublications.com/review/the-newclear-nc1000/
 
https://theaudiophileman.com/newclear/
 
https://positive-feedback.com/Issue71/newclear_1000.htm