First, I'm sure this has been asked many times but searching the subject wasn't too helpful to me.
So apologies in advance.
I enjoy tubed electronics and class A amps, which tend to be a bit warm. My current Cary 805s warm my small (12x16) music room even in the cool/cold of winter. I've got other amps that don't produce much heat, but am looking for something that produces no heat. Living in a home with no central AC the room gets uncomfortably hot during the summer months.
So...I'd like to try some Class D amps. Stereo or mono is just fine. And my speakers aren't difficult to drive so I don't need a thousand watts. But if that thousand watt amp sounds great, I'm not adverse to that, either.
FYI, The NewClear uses stock Icepower ASP1000 modules. These are older technology (at least 15 years old). The newer Icepower IceEdge 1200 modules are the newest and also better sounding. This is what PS Audio is using in their 1200 monos ($6K for the pair). However, you can buy a dual mono stereo amp from Rouge Audio Design in Italy (model: Studio N-10DM) delivered to the US for $1550.....They use these newer IceEdge modules too. Have me do some mods to them and you have a serious amp for a little over $2K.
audiodwebe You bought what you wanted and that is great.
Class D has made great advances in the last couple of years and GaN output devices has made the greatest impact.
If your looking for great sound vs good it will cost more money i know i have been on the class D merry go round for over a decade and i have finally found a class D amp worthy of sitting next to my class A and SET amps.
My advice is to enjoy what you just bought and save for a good GaN class D amp.
I'm quite surprised there's been no mention of Jeff Rowland amps. They don't suck. Maybe the sub$2k price target is a bit off-putting, however a pair of 201 mono's could be had for that, and honestly you should be able to get the 501's for that price. I will state that they need to be run with the 'PC1' or your own assembly (easy to do) of the Power Correction modules-they are actually DC power supplies and make a huge positive difference, however the amps can be enjoyed without them. What I can say (I run the 501 mono's with PC-1 supplies) is they are very smooth, no sense of harshness at all and hold their own against fine AB amps (I've never directly compared to Class A). JRDG uses Lundahl transformers in the circuit, and who-knows-what-else in modifying the ICEpowerASP1000 (the 201's use the ASP500?). I haven't priced JRDG integrated amps lately - maybe something is of interest. Everything I've heard of Jeff Rowland's has held to his 'house sound' quite well, and I'd suggest it shouldn't offend a tube-lover.
According to my personal experience, it makes not much sense to mix class D with tube preamplification. While class D may give a clear very low distortion sound, tubes would always add a notable (for me) distortion that ruins class D clean sound. I prefer to use either pure tube setting or pure SS setting as I enjoy both kinds of sounds. Mixing tubes with class D gives some extra warmth but also a notable distortion which, for me, they are not compatible.
And one more vote of PS audio Stellar S300. I use it in my third system with PS audio Gain Cell pre. I use this system not very often. Each time I return to it, it sounds better. They took quite a while, far above 400 hours, to come to the sound of that quality, which is clean alive and presential, live recordings sound especially good, the base it tight, mid and high frequencies,
dynamics
are fine, there is nothing to complain about, especially for the price. The difference as they sounded at the beginning and now is just drastic and the sound is still getting better. My initial confusion was also caused by the DAC incorporated into the pre, which is not indeed good I use now an external one. It is a rear case when one gets completely satisfied with what he has.
While my experience with Class D is limited. I've owned some Bel Canto DACs and integrated amps. While really trying to love them due to small footprint, low power consumption, etc... It just didn't do it for me. I went back to tubes. The closest I've heard to a warm musical experience was Jeff Rowland class D amps. I didn't own them, it was in a stereo shop and the system and room was set up just right. However, after that the salesperson played the Quicksilver integrated amp through some Watt Puppies and my jaw hit the floor.
Here's an article regarding the Jeff Rowland and the author comes to the same conclusion that Class D is close, just not yet.
While class D may give a clear very low distortion sound, tubes would
always add a notable (for me) distortion that ruins class D clean sound.
I prefer to use either pure tube setting or pure SS setting as I enjoy
both kinds of sounds. Mixing tubes with class D gives some extra warmth
but also a notable distortion which, for me, they are not compatible.
Hm. You need to hear better preamps! The way to limit distortion (and colorations) with tubes is not unlike how you would do it with transistors- go fully differential. This keeps the even ordered harmonics down (part of the 'tube' sound) allowing for far more transparency. If you have such a preamp it can work fine with the very transparent class D amps that are now available.
$2k is not much , Underwood wally has still Wired4 sound integrated amps for around $1500 that originally were $2500 and pretty respectable forthe money . Class D I have seen at $30 K like Merrill audio waay over priced !class D should be fair priced gan transistors are great new technology buy they are not That expensive.the markup is in their engineering . I am very happy with the Coda CSIB integrated vs any class D, or other class amplifiers.
Here's a review link to the AGD Audion top amp and pre-amp. https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/agd-productions-gran-vivace-andante/ I'd like to hear them. My best friend uses a Channel Islands Class D amp (what he could afford) mated to an EAR 324 tube pre-amp. He is also a part time remastering engineer (worked with Kevin Gray for years) and finds the amp to be quite satisfying.
The Audions are the first and only class D amps that for ME i can honestly say that class D is in the big boy class of amps.
I took the 15 day in home trial and they are staying. After being on the class D merry go round for over a decade and wasting time and money the Audions have checked all of the boxes of what a great amp should sound like.
Hm. You need to hear better preamps! The way to limit distortion (and colorations) with tubes is not unlike how you would do it with transistors- go fully differential. This keeps the even ordered harmonics down (part of the 'tube' sound) allowing for far more transparency. If you have such a preamp it can work fine with the very transparent class D amps that are now available.
You made me to reconsider a tube pre option with class D. @ml... did you also try a non-tube pre with Stellar S300?
@atmasphere, this is also a stimulating note for me since i was and remain to be a tube fun. I still enjoy very much my tube integrated. Could you be a bit more specific on "marching the distortions" and what kind of a tube preamp could be of a "right type"?
@niodari.....Sorry for the delayed response re. The S300...Haven’t had the chance to try a SS with it.... But did run direct from my PS Audio DAC (has a volume control)... Much much better with the pre there.
However, been using the tube front end trick with solid state amps during the years...Essentially, give you best of both worlds... And generally is less costly and involves less tube maint. Also a good solution for those with power hungry speakers. Very powerful (quality) tube amps can get very expensive, heavy, and hot.
This sounds perfect. Thanks @ml... for letting us know your thoughts and impressions. I understand your preamp is LA300me, should be very good. Looks like that you have spent about 8 times more in your preamp than in your power amp right?
Compared to PS audio DAC, I guess your amp gives more soundstage, gain/power, is the sound also more clean and transparent?
My pre is a Joule Electra la-150 mK2... (used) Cost about a thousand more than the S300. More body, better, much bigger Soundstage... More organic, real.
@audiodwebe Another way of dealing with heat is to install vents in the ceiling and use ductwork to move the air out of the house. This is often less expensive than air conditioning to install; its certainly less expensive to operate and also makes a lot less noise.
+1 for the PS Audio S300 combined with a tube pre. I ran an S300 with a Rogue RP-1 that was upgraded to Mullards. I just recently sold the S300 for a QUAD class A/B that runs a little bit warmer than the s300. Im not sure it sounds that much better than the S300 especially at x2 MSRP. If I ever switch back to class D which I may do I will surely consider the S700 mono blocks. You can pick up an S300 for about ~$1K and a Rogue RP-1 for about the same. , RP-1 runs mildly warm. I also like the Rogue Hybrid integrated suggestions.
note: Rp-1 over on usaudiomart for $1.1K and a S300 for $950. Killer combo for ~$2K
I am joyfully runnings my AGD Audions with an Atma-Sphere MP-1. Dead silent and superb phono stage. Think it is, perhaps, the best full function preamp available. Of its 18 tubes, 8 are for the phono stage.
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