Can you have too much speaker presence?

I’m assuming he means the smaller speakers won’t output enough for your listening area, thereby losing ’presence’?

And vis-a-vis speakers too big for a room would ’overwhelm’ it, thereby overpowering it with too much presence.

That’s why it’s so important to match speaker size to room size.

Or, is he trying to tell you he’s of the opinion that small speakers suck...

Tell him to knock off being audiocryptic and spell it out!

I know that’s not a word (yet) but it darn well should be!!

You just made it a word, now submit it to the Webster people. 🤔

My dealer says I’d lose too much speaker presence if I went to a smaller speaker…

but can too much become and issue, especially when it is centered in a specific frequency range?

Lose too much “speaker presence?” Seriously??? Can’t believe a dealer even used that term. If any frequency range is being emphasized (or de emphasized) it’s a problem. Depends on how big your room is, room treatments, speaker/seating position, ancillary equipment, etc., etc. Too many variables here for any of us to give you any meaningful help, and we’re just throwing darts at a board blindfolded here. Share more info and you’ll get some meaningful help/advice here. Keep everything secret and all you’ll get are largely random guesses. Up to you chief. I will say that, depending on room size, sometimes going with monitors and two subs can be preferable to towers for several reasons, but as we basically know nothing it’s impossible to say if that’s something to consider here or not.

"My dealer says I’d lose too much speaker presence if I went to a smaller speaker."

Translation:

"My dealer says he’d lose too much commission if I went to a smaller speaker."

@ Tony1954 - the smaller speakers are actually quite a bit more expensive! 
Sarcasm only works when you know all the facts:)

Sound wise, stage presentation, YES! I prefer the original room acoustics.of the recording. Not the players in my room.

FWIW when I have seen the word 'presence' it has been referring to the mid/upper mid range. I agree with Soix. But I would opine that your dealer was telling you these speakers would just be too small in your large (enuf) room, something you could cure with good well set up sub woofers. Another WAG though. :-)

You can have speakers that are too large for your venue. You can overload bass and end up having to do all sorts of elaborate treatments to make them sound right.

In the other end of the spectrum you can have tiny speakers and a sub and really loose the scale. 
 

While I never heard of the term speaker presence… I get the gist. Sure. 

Will the dealer allow you to take both the smaller and the larger speakers home and judge for yourself?

Your current speakers must be a pretty high hurdle for any speaker to surpass.

That’s not true a great stand mount have better imaging and excellent soundstaging and depth, just add a quality powered sub .

look at the MBL 126a world class monitor that's also omni directional and excellent off axis . I don’t know how good your electronics are, or front end this too 

has a lot to do with the final outcome , your dac  can be just as important 

as your speakers since all music starts at your front end turntable included.

Presence, being there. I'm all in. Started with 43" tall towers in my house of stereo and moved up to 69" tall towers and I have more presence :)

Size matters.  Buy the biggest speaker your will will let you have.

Is the dealer making his statement from a point of knowing the rest of your system?@baylinor mentioned his presence grew with his bigger speakers. I can attest that when I made a major DAC upgrade it was like my speakers were twice as large or they had a much larger presence in my room. Do maybe he is making his call on your system as a whole and no the speakers alone.

Yes, too much can be an issue, definitely. I keep mentioning them, but that’s OK because they are timeless classics: the Epi 100 are 21" tall and about 10x10 side and back. They are big enough to sound beautiful and full, and small enough to be super versatile and practical in real life.

Also, a big consideration for speakers is How do they sound off-axis, outside the sweet-spot...? If they’re only great in one particular seating position, then they’re not great for life. So as you audition, stand off to the side and see what happens. Smaller speakers can be remarkably great for off-axis, as their cabinetry can get out of the way.  @audioman58  +1 for that

Size matters.  Buy the biggest speaker your will (wife) will let you have.

Sensible advice. Just because you have a bigger speaker doesn't necessarily mean you have to drive it as hard as the smaller speaker. Both speakers at the same listening level would be an interesting comparison. I highly suspect the larger one would sound better.

Define "presence" before we can answer.

At the same volume I can confirm that in my case the taller towers offered a more solid sound than the smaller ones, with more weight to it. Both really have the same kind of imaging, depth and soundstage but the smaller towers presented it on lighter footing even played at the same volume. Meaning the tall ones have more "presence" so I do understand what that salesman is talking about. 

As I see it there is "Large Speaker" sound and "Small speaker" sound.

The difference primarily being the chest impact a 15" speaker makes

when it moves a higher volume of air than a 6" speaker can.

I enjoy my 2 way speakers supplemented with subs so the whole

frequency range is presented. The impact of being there will not

be the same with smaller speakers. But the clarity & soundstage 

can be every bit as good or better.

I can not enjoy 70+dB sound levels for long. It literally hurts my tired ears.

But I can enjoy music at 65 dB which many of my friends can not.

From my way of thinking if a speaker can not sound good unless it

is blaring it is a poor speaker. If I am listening without any discomfort

at at a level say 75-85dB then I credit the system for producing sound

I can enjoy at higher than normal levels.

In other words it is a great system.

Make any sense?

newbee

4,556 posts

07-16-2023 at 05:34pm 

FWIW when I have seen the word 'presence' it has been referring to the mid/upper mid range. 

I was recently watching A British Audiophile's youtube channel. He referred to the "presence region" as being between 2k - 4k. 

Buy the biggest speaker you can  afford.......very rarely does a bookshelf give you the "full" presentation that a Floorstander will give you. You'll get lower bass....equally nice mids.....equally great highs and be able to play them enjoyably at lower volume levels And enjoy them at Higher volume levels without going into distortion. The bigger the better. Good luck in your search.

Stereophile's definition: 

“presence A quality of realism and aliveness. 

presence range The lower-treble part of the audio spectrum, approximately 1-3kHz, which contributes to presence in reproduced sound.”

As I currently have a post about looking at New or Used speakers,it's interesting this post came up. I had a small second room set up  13x13" give or take and a pair of Aria948 Focals, with nice electronics. Too much bass, no matter what I tried. I eventually spoke with FRITZ,  and bought a pair of Bookshelfs,  Fritz Carbon 7's SE model, and have been floored  by the Sound!! (Complimented by SVS SB 3000 sub) WHAT a difference, one of the posts I think addressed this.  Clarity, punch, so revealing and impactful, compared to the Focals. I'm sure most of it was room related. Just adding my 2 cents. Thanks for the above posts. Robert TN

I think that different speakers sound differently and that your own desires, not mine or your dealers, should drive what you buy. 

Think critically about the music you listen to and the volume you like to listen at, then listen like that.

Don't make the mistake of playing the speakers at full volume at the dealer if that's not how you will drive them at home. Like driving a mini van at 100 MPH to see how it handles. :D

I've heard some pretty impressive stand mount "small" speakers at a few audio shows (TAD and Raidho are two examples) that outperformed many larger speakers. If you accept the Stereophile definition (thanks Rickd1225) then I completely disagree with your dealer, unless maybe your listening room is a large auditorium. "Presence" can be at least as good on small speakers as large speakers. It's a function of the speaker design. I've heard plenty of big speakers that had mediocre sound.

I was recently watching A British Audiophile’s youtube channel. He referred to the "presence region" as being between 2k - 4k.

I've only encountered the term "presence" in the context of guitar amps. 

Don't know if this applies but here is a definition from the Fender website:

...the "presence" control...  controls “presence", which boosts upper-mid and treble frequencies in a specific manner that makes the tone sound notably livelier... The quality of this livelier... tone is typically described as being more “present,” thus the name.  

 

The dealer’s comment seems far too vague for me to feel confident in an interpretation. What was your interpretation? You mentioned in a question that presence can be about a certain frequency range, but is this what the dealer meant? And, if so, what frequency range was he talking about? A member mentioned Sterephile’s definition (1-3khz) and another just added a decidedly different one (4-6 Or, was he talking about a general liveliness to the sound? Was he comparing the sound of your exact towers to a specific smaller speaker or was this a general statement about a universal difference between two types of speakers?

Without knowing the dealer’s meaning, I can offer a cliche: taste is subjective! You may prefer the sound of the smaller speaker. I went from a lifetime of listening to large floorstanders to a petite pair of bookshelves and love the new sound! I demoed three different towers before making my decision and have zero regrets. . If the fellow meant a specific frequency range, can’t some smaller speakers be boosted in that area while some larger speakers are recessed in that region?

For me, regardless of the dealer’s exact meaning, I don’t like his ’truth’ telling. I think a dealer should let a customer arrive at their own decision and not even color someone’s impression with his ’expert’ opinion. Let the customer listen to a few options and arrive at their own conclusions.

Your question's meaning seems easier to interpret and I would say this: Of course! too much is a subjective response. One person's too much can be another person's spot on. A boosted presence (in whatever frequency range is being considered) may be a pet peeve of some while a desirable trait for another.  Plus, speaker traits are often amenable to adjustment through positioning, room treatment, etc. That boost may tail off nicely off axis in your room for all we know leaving a nice, wide sweet spot in its wake. Best to demo at your place whenever possible.

For some reason the OP seems unwilling to share more details about his system or room, which frankly pisses me off and leaves us all spinning our wheels here largely for nothing.  Have fun guys — I’m out. 

@soix 

Ops system is on his/her profile.

Already has pretty impressive speakers.

My speakers are Focal Maestro EVO’s and room is 16/17 with a wide opening to the kitchen.

My bad I guess for not thinking to check the profile page.  Nice system, and best of luck in wherever you go from here.  I think I can see why you wanted to at least explore monitors possibly with a couple good subs?  Can’t the dealer lend you some stuff to demo at home?

Buy the biggest appropriately for your room, control the volume duh….

I can loosely relate “presence” to the scale of music. I experienced this upgrade when I moved from a small loudspeaker to my current one. If that is what it presence, then the dealer might be right. With the smaller speaker you might get better imaging, but at the expense of scale. It’s up to your taste.

It depends on the design quality, but for me in general a larger speaker has made the performers and scale image larger. If that's what he means I agree. If he's using the term to mean "in the room presence" as in singer in the room, which can be a specific frequency, not so much. 

Want to thank all the posts related to my question. My speakers are large and sometimes I feel like they give me too much. What I mean by that is the presentation can seem overwhelming at times. 

OP,

If the presentation can seem overwhelming… that to me says you have overloaded the room… tube traps, diffusers and absorbers at key locations are indicated.

Also, I am not trying to be a jerk here. Turn down the volume.

I think the presence suggestion relates to what I would term natural presence.Which is impacted by the baffle size .Smaller baffled speakers have less output in the midrange which means the frequencies above that have to be attenuated to balance the frequency response.That is baffle step compensation.

It is arguably two wrongs trying to make a right.You tend to lose more than just efficiency.You lose natural presence and replace it with throttled presence and  then rely on injecting more power to compensate [reconstitute if you like] . It is an imperfect solution.Like the sonic version of powdered milk!

The dealer must be talking about the 1976 Led Zeppelin Presence album. ark,ark!

50+ years an audiophile. I've never heard "presence" used in this way. Usually refers to upper mix frequencies. It would be interesting to know what your dealers means. And I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about,  just that he's using a potentially confusing term.

Have fun. 

I have in the past, but own no longer Stand Mount Tannoy Speakers.

In conjunction with these I have a Floor Standing Three Way Speaker at approx' 44" High (still owned and used) and 6' x 3' ESL's (still owned and used)

Either of these Speakers have been/are capable of filling a room with attractive sound, each have attractions and detractors unique to each Speaker.

Each have supplied numerous hour of music replays where an alternative speaker was desired.

Accepting the differences between the Three Designs and learning each ones  strengths, and how they offer certain genre's a uplift is a experience worthwhile having.   

I have been down this road and think jtgofish makes an interesting point. What I would do, though, is perform acoustic measurements. The issue may be band limited. Problems are easier to solve if you can isolate them.