I thought I responded to this discussion already and if so, I apologize. Volti Audio Rivals are just about as efficient as any Klipsch, will play VERY loud with maybe 20 watts and sound better than any of them. The hand built quality of construction, crossover components and drivers are also superior to them. Look great, sound great ( big, open, dynamic but also detailed) and not crazy large. Contact Greg Roberts in TN, he’s the owner, designer and builder and would be happy to talk with you.
Big Below 15k used that can play loud as heck
I moved into a way larger room, roughly 20x24 and the 802D’s just ain’t cutting the mustard. Looking for good options that can pound out bass in a large room with 500-1000 high end watts (pass or levinson etc)
Currently running 2 JL Fathom F113’s so it’s not low bass, it’s a speaker that can pump concert level music playing rap, hip hop, reggae, rock and classical/audiophile stuff etc. but I need my rig to blast rap and hiphop impressively more than anything.
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@danager+1, the Altec VOTT will do the job and do it beautifully. Although it uses a 15"/16" driver it does benefit from well integrated subs. You will probably find it with the 511 horn for the high range. Remember they were used for cinema and can crank like crazy while still sounding great. You may need to reinforce the cabinets and damp the alloy horn but the extra work is well worth it. Check to see that the cab is loaded with the Altec 416 woofer and that it is not sporting some cheap replacement rubbish. All parts still available from GPA |
Wow, did the boomers come out to sound ignorant or what? "you listen to rap music, so let's recommend speakers that are loud but sound like crap because you obviously don't care about the quality of sound" I think the recommendations for Klipsch are right now, maybe some Line Magnetic or JBL too? I also agree that it sounds like your room has limitations more than the speakers you have, you could end up throwing a ton of money at a new system to only have the room just swallow that all up and give you back nothing in improvements. |
Do try the Volti Audio Rivals! Very efficient (98 + db according to Stereophile), can play VERY loud w/ not many good watts & most importantly, sound excellent! Big, open, dynamic but also detailed, nuanced w/ a beautiful midrange & image. Email or call Greg Roberts (owner, designer & builder) & talk w/ him in TN. They easily have the dynamics of any Klipsch but also the smoothness & detail of any speaker close to their price range ($12 - $18K depending on style & finish). |
These are flat out reference quality monitors:
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisaebe3-mint-condition-in-walnut-jbl-4367-speakers-full-range |
It would be a shame to use the Dunlavy for shake purpose only. I used to be on board with the big Klipsches but as I grew older I grew wiser and no longer think of them as "hard rocking" or loud speakers. They simply get too harsh at super high volumes unless you've done some crazy mods or treatment. I always felt the mids/highs kept going with the bass trying to keep up (yes with the Klipschorn too). I've had Khorns, La Scalas, Cornwalls, Chorus, Forte, CF3 etc.. I'd say the best sounding speaker when cranking to party levels is the Chorus 2. But after owning the Tekton Double Impact, I find them just as loud but much more pleasing at the high volume. They don't scream at you as much and you sense more of the lower/midbass thumb/slam.
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It is funny, when I started out in high end audio wanting loud. But the better my system the less I wanted it. I know this progression had something to do with distortion going down dramatically along the way… I am not sure if my age going up had anything to do with it. I used to keep turning it up to make it more satisfying, now I guess I do the same thing. Late 20’s ~95db… late 60’s ~ 72db. |
Happy '22, but when is 'too much' too much? We're all too familiar with the 'basser vehicle' buzzing as if a bumblebee in a hiccup fit...( C'mon, kidz...Permatex Everything that twists or turns into tight & add a quarter...silicone all that remains...)... When does the source equipment need to be 'offsite' enough? NASA launch facilities begin to have relevance; far enough away to not intercept blown capacitors, cable melts, tube flares....any audiomalady that has or could occur within even the illogical. "It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel Fine (until something goes *foom*) until the weeping and gnashing of teeth and treasure..." 😏 Personally, I've yet to be offended by the odd oldhvymec ('Bots' that? *L*) Pin to bottom of chicken coop, starve chickens. (Once upon a millennia, they be lizards....and Big) Still hungry after all these yearns.... Maybe I'm just shock-proof....comfortably numb...looking to burn out bright. Play loud and often, how accomplished is just part of the fun. Into the future, J
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In your previous room you were able to get impactful bass at 87dB, but in your new larger room the B&Ws start to run out of steam before you hit 80dB. These are not particularly loud listening levels. The B&Ws are not an easy load, but the Parasound JC1 should be more than sufficient to get you above 100dB in near or mid-field listening. I would not change your loudspeakers until you experiment with loudspeaker and listening position. I'm guessing, but your room may have a frequency response null in the mid-bass range. Using your SPL run some frequency sweeps to gain more information. |
$15K???
I got you covered. Just come on by, pay me, and have your furniture movers bring it to you.
For $15K you would get a pair of one-off Super Reds most probably made by The Mastering Labs. These are 15.5 cubic feet with the Altec 604E2 and Utah auxilliary woofer. As I said, these are custom in walnut and triamped with a one-off electronic crossover, again, probably from The Mastering Labs, and one-off passive eq units, probably from The Mastering Labs, to go between the amp and the horns. All drivers look and play like new and when the JBL group met here, everyone said these were the best sounding 604s anyone had ever heard. I got them from a recording studio in Southern California that went out of business. But wait..., there’s more! The system includes a Marantz 1180DC integrated that serves as the preamp and powers the horns, and two Marantz 170DC power amps. One of the power amps was recapped with Mundorfs. All three pieces were recently serviced and all repairs made.
And to top it all off, it includes a Marantz 2130 tuner with the scope that works fine. I’ll even throw in the rack and Philips 212. You will not find another system like this anywhere in the world!
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You might want to consider preparing the room first. Big, heavy rug on a heavy felt mat will make the room feel acoustically sweeter...you may not need to go as big in the speakers. Get rid of all the hard reflective things and replace them with softer diffused things. Get creative with the room and even stand mounts will sound bigger. |
Oldhvymec, I don’t think there is 1 group you left out to offend. Happy New Year to you too. :-) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well some call it offensive, WE call it getting along. One of the cops was my nephew. Besides all the cops in this town smoke pot IF they are gonna get loaded. The AA meeting became a little to saturated with local PD, They decided to switch gears. The old cop pubs are NO MORE in this town.. We don’t have coffee shops (LAUGH) but we still have bars (NOT LAUGHING). I watched the drunk neighbor back up and PUSH his bass boat right off the trailer and on to side walk. He didn’t catch any fish, BUT he did manage to get a heck of drunk going on. This was SO wrong in so many ways. Drunk pilot, bass fishing, drunk driving, bringing his boat and 2 guest home. THEN he wrecks his own boat and trailer and pickup. He didn’t hurt a soul, he just did 15-20K in damage and his insurance will pay for it.. There, NOW I’ve offended everyone. MAD can get Happy. I don’t care if you are smashed and drive. You better not wreck and cause damage or harm to others. That’s my moto. I’ll turn you over to the family if I see a idiot. The cops like it better in the long run.. They’re better at car chases and fun stuff like that.. Taking videos for "Cops" to air.. How am I doing guy/gals/??? It’s time to feed the chickens in 2022, WOW. Let me crow!!! I made another one. Now you know WHY the call me "The Organic Fanatic Mechanic" Happy New Year Note to the OP: Get open back head phones TOO, and turn it all UP, the HP at 120-130db and the room speakers at about 140-150 or so. Tape the windows and wear goggles in case your eyes pop out, SO MESSY.. Maybe a bung plug just in case you crap yourself.. Depends is probably better overall. |
I would suggest experimenting with your listening position. No matter if the system is $10,000 or $500,000, I prefer to be closer to the speakers. I'm not saying to hurt hearing or blast them in your ears but once I get more than 15 feet away, unless the room is very well treated, and the whole system is very capable, I prefer the closer position- 10-15 feet or so away most of the time. There is so much that can go on with sound over distance, so just my advice to experiment with this aspect too. |
You guys keep talkin’ about horns. @systembuilder I think your dB readings are off. You mean 100 dB or above. That is the way to go for sure. The car that goes by and shakes your house is not what you want. I have had subs for 20 years. My son and I used to love it when we could shake the walls with Welcome to the Machine. He came home one time and said I have to play loud rap to get any bass. I said no, listen. I had put some improvements in place since last time he was there. Better streaming but the springs under the subs and speakers cleaned up a lot of problems. Now you can feel the wave of music go by me. I can walk the entire room and the sound is nearly the same. AND the rest of the house doesn’t shake anymore. Talk about standing waves! I was going to buy some more bass traps but the springs fixed a lot of the problems. Anyway, you can spend SO much but you have the subs. Set them at 80-100 HZ crossover point. Klipsch Cornwall, LaScala, Klipschorn, will all play about greater than 115 dB with a not very big amp. I would not put a tube setup in your case. I use a pass XA25 and it will play louder than most want even with a passive preamp. I don’t think it will do 120 dB but I don’t care. If you like to tinker around, buy some used Klipsch and put some nicer parts in the crossover and you will really have something. Even new Klipschorns are in your budget! The subs make the Klipsch sound better. Less load on your main amp. I would not go out any buy a mega amp. A Pass X150.8 would not even sweat. It was the B&W that were robbing your power. I do have a 500W at 4 ohm amp on the subs. Obviously there are other choices besides Klipsch but they are readily available and will take the beating. Volti Rival and the Legacy would be good choices as well(high quality parts and sound) The big Dunlavy are great but are getting old. I don’t know about parts. Have fun! I am in Midwest if you are nearby. I have all the Kanye, Dr. Dre, Kendrick, Drake, Tyler the Creator you could ask for. Zhu can put those people to shame if he puts his mind to it. |
(...Jim assumes that, at the levels desired, that one can stand still...*L*) There are less expensive ways to decimate sheetrock, but voting with the 'pro' purposer's... Eriks' down with your concept, but Jim (again, +) is pointing out that the levels targeted begin to turn the space into a larger version of the interior of a really large cabinet.... "Lets' get F'd up and watch the pressure waves blow the dust bunnies airborne!" Cruise the used at the pro outlets....Behringer with a soft spot for Crown amps myself, but If I go big I'm wearing muffs to keep what's left. Sounds like good clean fun to me, tho'....👍 Go forth and froth... @oldhvymec ...when the db's rise, do the neighbors run towards, or away? :)
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Also, very respected agon member here w B and W successfully integrated Tekton Sub driver towers, they are 10” pro / musical instrument divers in a tall array cabinet Tim is not prone to over the top fanboy hyperbole and might be able to provide insight… @boxer12 , IF you go that route, i would definitely reinforce the factory Tekton box as it is much much less inert than your excellent B and W cabinet… Full disclosure, I have not heard Tim’s system, but given his wide ranging exoerience w Wilson to B and W and much more, I trust him. Jim |
At the volume levels you mention which your stated amps should be loafing at, i suspect you are listening in a deep cancellation standing wave trough…. need to move chair, speakers, sub, all three. …. How far are the B and W from the reinforcing back wall ? Are you low passing the B and W into the subs ? Try running them full range. Best to you. Jim |
Back in the 70's, when i was in my 20's, my friends and I used to see who could play loud enough to peel the paint off the wall. My quest ended when I put pieces of capacitors on the ceiling. It was very loud-until that moment. HK ST7 tt, Shure V15, HK Citation 11, ESS 2240{?} xover, ESS tower speaker, Acoustic Research integrated [using the amplifier only], and EPI OpAmp1. The incident filled the room with dead electronics smoke. It was very earschplitten loudenboomer up until then. The wonder and glory of young ears. Everything survived except the AR integrated. Ahh, Springsteen said it best "Glory Days"
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If you want just a good old rock and roll speaker and are not a critical listener, the Cerwin Vegas will do you well. If you want loud and want refined listening also, go Legacys. Focus SEs with a nice pair of subs and Walla, you got something... and it feels like its Idling when its loud. I know, I own a set and I like what you like .. BTW, there are quite a few recording studios across the globe that are using Focus Se's. And I'll bet they take a beating while in use. |
Wow! I didn’t such a response. To recap alot of responses into one. First off I don’t only listen to rap, but I’m in my 30’s and if it can’t properly blast the music I grew up listening to what’s the point? Also I apologize it was late, I could’ve wrote a better post. I’ll edit it as such current;y Im running them in a semi treated room 9 2x4 panels along back and back corner walls. Just moved in and getting it set up. ‘current rig is Conrad Johnson Premier 16, Am running Parasound JC1’s (That I’m not keeping) which are doing a better job than the levinson 332 that really wasn’t cutting the mustard the problem im running into is the bass just gives out on them and they just sound like their gonna break or start breaking up at least once im hitting an average of 77-80db. I was hitting 87db avg. without an issue ever. I’m listening in the low 70’s. I was getting hit with a solid wave of impact not quite the maxilla guy… previous room was 11x17, 2.5x is a massive jump…. I had been thinking of something like Dunlavy SCVI, JBL K2, PBN’s, TAD, hadn’t thought of Meyer, it’s a great thought. tomic you have great advice sir.
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Well you already have subs….so you need mid bass slam….nothing does that at concert levels like separate towers of 10” drivers in an inert cabinet, preferably servo. Meyer ain’t close to your budget, i know…i spec them for people who make a living w them. Pro gear good advice, start shopping reverb, etc… |
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