Best Bang for the Buck Upgrade

Hello,

I agree with the rear sliding door. Even the $30 curtains from Amazon would be night and day. 
I have two Puritan PSM156 in my system. You can go with the 136 but if you can the 156 is better. Also, the Ultimate XX power cable to feed the Puritan. This will

make the whole system sound better. 

I am with those that suggest you treat your room. The heavy curtains covering the sliding doors would be a good start.  Additionally, photos of choice can be copied onto canvas for sound absorption panels. May garner greater acceptance for their use.  Check out ATS acoustics. I had them make me one which turned out wonderful.  

I could probably raise 15k if I sold everything and added 5k. 

My advice is a little different cause it seems like you’re chasing the sound by upgrading here or there. What could you get if you sold everything and started over with the proceeds from the sale and that bonus money?  Come up with an estimated number and then put a new system together with synergy that will blow you away. 

The best is buy and bang for your buck....is close outs or ,when dealer are cleaning house....most of the time you will get fantastic deals...

Subwoofers do bring so much to the party if you can integrate them with your system and room well, even though your speakers are almost full range.

Room treatments, are a good suggestion.

Many recommendations here to attend to room acoustics which I fully agree with. Many enthusiasts who can't conceptualise what all this is about dismiss the idea and look to tweaks or a component change. Unfortunately without the treatment the room is taking control of the sound and for example any change of say DAC or cable is not that noticeable simply because the sound is taking long to decay.

Multi-subs have been suggested but the thought of having a bunch of huge boxes is off-putting, however a few much smaller and easier to accommodate subs will bring about a significant improvement as others have commented. A small sub can be tucked away behind the sofa, used as a side table or maybe built into an alcove or display cabinet. Once heard it is surprising how guys come up with places for them.

You mentioned a blanket across the glass slider helped. This is a good place for treatment but you can improve on the blanket which only acts as a narrow-band absorber. Consider a 2 or 3 curtain rail which looks the same as any other curtain but with 2 or 3 curtains spaced from each other and at different distances from the glass will provide an effect over a greater spectrum and also be more effective at doing it. Essentially it has now become more broad-band in its range. If you would normally use 2 drapes for a curtain use 4 so that they gather fuller and perform better. Can try this yourself with a big duvet etc. Good luck.

@ discopants: good post and greetings from AOS

Simple reccomendation for your larger project: WyWires Platinum interconnects, comes in black or white. Benefits greatly from 200 hours burn-in. Their background is silent and the soundstage is deeper and better defined. A worthy upgrade at a reasonable cost.

I like the power conditioner idea. No need to spend fortune. Puritan makes good ones for under $2K.

Also, get a nice turntable and some records if you have the space. Some albums will sound better on a good vinyl pressing, especially Analogue Productions and Speakers Corner.

Why don't you demo a power conditioner, like the P12 from PS Audio.  I have a P20, only because I have a very hungry power amp but I found a significant difference in sound stage size and micro detail when adding this to my system.  It also gives me a very black background.  I think they will give you a 30 day free trial if I am not mistaken.  I am in no way affiliated with PS Audio but I am a big believer in power regeneration when it is done correctly.  .  

There are "Purists" and there are people who just have fun and enjoy the "Music" and not the "electronics....The Schiit Loki mini and Lokius can tailor, for a few hundred bucks, your system to make every album sound great no matter the quality of the recording...They are called "Don't say the words".........Tone Controls!!!!...I've been ready to sell different speakers and amps , but after adding the $149 Loki....I'm keeping them because I can mold the sound of each component....and it's fun being your systems "mastering man". ...I even bought a second one just incase the first one breaks. My system cost over $12,000 and this little $149 beauty changes the whole Hi Fi game....I'm getting the most enjoyment out of my music, Now.

GIK acoustic treatments and Isoacoustics Gaia feet.

Ha. I am definitely not end game anything! Probably never will be. Always lookin. 

I think it really depends on what state your system is in. If you have the end game speakers you love them I think DAC and the source (network player). 

Without a doubt, the Best Bang for the buck is $349 for High Fidelity Cables NPS 1260! Even only applying it to the phono IC, the improvement in SQ is stunning.

Hard to imagine but HFC is introducing NPS Q45T saying it is twice as effective.

Boy, do I believe these guys. Ordering some when it comes out this Tuesday.

The little I applied of the old stuff resulted in an amazing increase in “realness”.

Every record now is more gripping than ever! Can’t wait for the new.

It is hard to imagine better B for the B.

I do have a 6 ft glass slider behind the seating position. Next step for sure is to get a nice thick sliding curtain for it. I duct taped a heavy blanket up there for a test and it for sure made a difference for the better. 

They do say Tad Laboratories on the back of them.

Amps confuse me. Once they measure well it’s more of a different flavor and preference. For example I just sold a Micromega M100. Nice sounding amp but I far prefer the A1008 which was a 6 grand integrated in its day. Not sure how far up the ladder I would need to go to get an appreciable improvement. The Pass Labs stuff does intrigue me as well as the Ayre stuff. I just always buy based on reviews basically. I have no intention of buying new so feel like a creep using dealers to listen to their setups when they are trying to make a living. 

Nice speakers.

While they aren't part of the TAD lineup, they sure look solid-Andrew Jones design? quality build/parts.

They deserve to be well into the room for optimum performance, along with appropriate room treatment-diffusion/damping. 

Another placement option:

http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_calculators.php

Just a suggestion, not for every room. 

I'd spend your money on a more substantial DAC. I'm a Denafrips fan

After that , consider a major amp upgrade. Subs can always improve any setup.

Yeah New DAC is being considered. Really interested in a Ladder Dac to see what all the fuss is about. I do like the Burson Composer at least as much as the RME I had. 

I have a cd player that was considered pretty good 20 years ago, but using the digital out to a new relatively cheap new dac made big improvements in sound.

Room treatments.

Man that Funk stuff is gorgeous!  Would love to hear it

Always in any system (unless you use an external clock, then clock cables.)

1. AC cables

2 good isolation devices

Best wishes

mlavigne posted a link to FUNK AUDIO - Home . I certainly would like to hear these!

JL Audio F110 are $4k. The F113 is not like $6k. Prices are insane. 

A user above mentions "silver link RCA for a startling uplift in information transmission. " Can anyone confirm this? Silver RCA plugs and sockets making a big diff??

Yeah would be pretty pricey to add more JL subs! I think they are like 4K a piece for the F113 now. Don’t think I can get away with more subs with the wife. Maybe 1 more. 🤔
 

Thanks guys lots of stuff to consider. 

Fix your sub and add 1-3 more of the same sub.  Add room treatments.  Get a dedicated power line.  Add a streamer.  Go to dinner and drinks and then to some live music events.  Take dance lessons.  Stay overnight somewhere an hour or two from home.

Hello,

Whatever you can get a better deal on used out of a DAC or an integrated. I would replace the DAC first especially since you are using a transport. You have really great speakers. When you replace the DAC with something of that caliber and price you will be amazed. The biggest reason people hear such a big sonic change when they upgrade the integrated is because of the preamp section in the integrated. This is why I prefer separates. You buy an amp that is good enough to push the speakers well. As you upgrade the preamp you get a really jump in sound. Plus, if you are running all digital you can run a killer DAC on a good amp especially because these DAC/streaming companies have figured out to adjust the volume from the chip and get great results. I still prefer a preamp with analog inputs even if I am running all digital setup. I run a nice vinyl system so I need analog system. That’s why I like the Lumin P1. It’s a preamp/ DAC Streamer. I just listened to this awesome piece of gear on a 20 year old amp pushing KEF blades. Pure harmony. 
I also love the sound of the Ayre QX-5 DAC with the Network/ streamer option. 
Another reason I prefer separates is you can upgrade individual pieces of gear and if one thing has become obsolete like a DAC you can replace it. I do know that some companies like MAC and NAD have cards to make them semi future proof. 

Room Treatments.

I would spend money on DAC if that is your main source of music.

Step 1 - 2 Subwoofers. Properly integrated, subs will improve any system.

I would suggest the REL T series. Use the high level inputs from your amp for easy integration.

Will leave you plenty of money left over for Step 2, a new DAC/Streamer.

Most people still don't understand digital room correction, or will not even try it.

I dare you to put in a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 room correction system in your already excellent system, run it and set it up properly, use any minor DSP equalization for other peaks as you choose, and then seriously listen to it A/B and blind with someone else running it.

Of course you may be too familiar (and like) the current sound and recognize it. Ask audio folks who don't know the system.

It was the single thing that made my system (and the room) far better, and very audibly easy to hear. I'd never get rid of it.

Unless you have the perfect room and speakers I doubt any single piece of upstream electronics you can buy will make anything close to the positive difference you'll hear with the room correction unit.

Good luck figuring it out and have fun. Congrats on the bonus!

I knew you were going to say top end and mid bass! It's always the case IDK why, but subs can't fix the midbass and while often recordings are often to blame for the top end I've found after my last round of speakers that a few companies are getting it right. The tweeter in the salon 2 is one, but you would need twice the power for those. The Kef Blades have an amazing tweeter and manage the midbass transition with just a little toe in. I upgraded my speakers after 25 years of being flogged so tbh you will probably get more fun just from moving the system to the long wall and play around. You already have a complimentary system.

It's a 'system' so changing one thing is just a part  of the bang...

Improving your power to the system ( I use and recomend Puritan Audio PSM136 or PSM156) will  upgrade your source and amplification in one swell foop. I have dedicated lines and PSM1136 still made a big difference in timbre, sooundstaging and dynamic impact. As davidten and others recomended, no matter how your audio journey unfolds, getting the power right is foundational.

Biwire?

Tube amp in lieu of hybrid?

Best bang, $340 Duelund/Mundorf Ultra Loudspeaker Purifiers by Audioman58. 

" Bang for the Buck "

B 4 any component upgrade, or speaker replacement ( last resort ), I  suggest that you decouple your speakers from the floor. This will eliminate, or minimize, the vibrations going from speakers into the floor and reflecting back into their cabinents. 

If you do this, it may clean up the sound and tighten the speakers bass. Try using Herbies or Sorbothane pads. I`ve done this, and it was like I had a new pair of speakers.

After decoupling, your sound may benefit from room treatments.

Judging from your system, I see no mention of a turntable. If it were me, I'd throw the money at a nice turntable from maybe Avid or Origin Live, along with a nice tubed phono preamp like a Tavish design Adagio. 

Subwoofers do bring so much to the party if you can integrate them with your system and room well, even though your speakers are almost full range.

Room treatments, are a good suggestion.

Getting your power right is also a good call but this is very dependant on your own situation as to how much benefit you will get.

I would also reccomend you look at isolation for you components. Decoupling is the way to go. Speakers and source components benefit the most. I'm using a mix of isoacoustics, stillpoints and black ravioli in my system. I would reccomend black ravioli if you are starting from scratch for most components but speakers and turntables do like something springy like Townshend or isoacoustics.

Once all that is sorted you will start to get good benefits from well sorted cabling lots of options for DIY here.

Finally don't ignore tweaks such as contact enhancers, fuses rfi/emi control and ground plane reference voltage.

If you want some immediate noticeable improvements get black ravioli big pads for your source and DAC. They will lower the noise floor giving you more details improved soundstage and better bass and tone.

+1 @djones51 

@mofojo I went to see a photo of your room but couldn't find it. Audio in a shared space is tough.

After learning how to measure room reflections and SPL curves, I cannot imagine making major changes in some areas without some estimation about what is happening in the room when it's optimized. In other words, I could not have optimized my room without some iterative listening-measuring-positioning work. And without that work, more equipment would risk time-wasting and money-wasting ventures.

That said, power improvements can lower your noise floor, which would be good, regardless of those acoustic measurements. Unless, you already have pretty clean power. If you search back over threads about power, you will find people realizing that thousands spent on power products didn't help because they had quieter, cleaner power than they realized. It's not clear to me how one can assess the level of noise in one's electrical system without a professional. If anyone knows, I'm all ears.

if you are happy with your turntable --if you have one--  or other front end, try replacing stock RCA phono sockets for WBT NextGen silver and convert RCA plugs on your front end IC cable(s) to ETI research silver link RCA for a startling uplift in information transmission. Other similarly designed solid silver pin RCA's may give similar results. Not tried all WBT, liking ETI.

i owned 1008... get rid of Pioneer soon... you need an ATC 50... or at least Klipsch rf-7

the source is also no good ... but that's later

I recommend the top models Ayon 10 or 5 CD 

Subs, subs, subs. Added an SVS 4000 just because I acquired it on the cheap and 2 years later I have 3. In my experience nothing has changed my listening pleasure more than adding subs. Every time. Good luck with your search. Ain't it fun?

I would start with dinner and a TWO nice bottles of wine.

I’d move from there to a second dinner if need be and possibly a male or female escort. Just depends on how set in her ways the wife is.

THEN fix the room, it is 50% of the sound and 1/10th cost to fix. Besides it might make her happy for once, sometimes that’s all it takes.. :-) 3k tops.

Take a few quid and treat yourself to a dance lesson or two.. Put on a G-string and go roller blading.

Buy some chickens..

Re-Roof the outdoor speakers and air the tires.. There Big ones.. :-)

It seems like you actually really like your system but are still looking for that next step - I can very much relate. I recently added a 2nd JL sub (placed to the rear of but not directly behind the primary listening position). I’m in a similar situation as you - stereo in the family room. Didn’t think I could get away with it either but went for it. Clearly the biggest improvement I’ve had so far. I don’t understand how this works but the sound is much much improved over the entire frequency range, more space between all instruments but the biggest improvement was the soundstage. Not subtle at all - like there is a 3-D band playing in my room. Really stunning what a 2nd sub can do. 

To improve the sound of what you already have I would get a power conditioner. Get a used Audience unit for about $4k and you can upgrade it as you go a long. When I added a conditioner to my system, it was like a veil was removed from the music. All the instruments sounded more like instruments. Blacker background and better defined soundstage. 

@oregon 

Yes room correction is on my radar. I can only do so much in this shared area without putting the foot down😀. I know there are some better looking stuff that can be done without a big argument. Big ole bass traps in the corners is probably out. Big glass slider behind the seating position. Next stop is buy a thick sliding curtain for that. 
 

@david_ten 

i am planning on addressing the electrical. I am right next to the panel now a room over. I have not however thought about dedicated ground. I don’t even really know how that’s done? Big pole in the ground? 
 

thanks

@mofojo Are you in your own house, and plan to be there for the foreseeable future?

If yes, then address the power. Get it right.

Panel (inclusive) through to the wall outlets (inclusive); including dedicated grounds / a sub panel, etc.etc. Your budget will cover all of this.

This will result in tremendous dividends and benefits for your current system as well as any component / system related changes you make going forward.

I would concentrate on the room. GIK and Vicoustic might offer free analysis. Search the forums for referrals and suggestions. Room treatment can be effective and attractive.

 It is essential for changes, improvements.

Enjoy the ride.

Your speakers and amp are a pretty good match. If you decide to replace one of them you may end up having to replace the other as well if you don't obtain another good match.