Pure Audio Project Trio 15 - Silversmith Audio Fidelium internal wiring upgrade

I heard the PAP Trio at the recent Capital Audiofest and the speaker cables were the Fidelium cables.  I have no idea if the internal wiring was also Fidelium, and even if it were the case, I would have no idea how tis affected the sound.  All I can say is that the entire system at the show was one of the best I heard at the show.  That being the case, the speaker cables had to be pretty good, at least in the context of this system.  

If a speaker builder offers a cable upgrade, you can expect that the particular cable chosen works well with the speaker (at least in the mind of the builder).  If you like the PAP sound overall, you can expect their choice of upgrade to be good.  I have some experience with a local custom builder and have heard the difference the internal cabling choice makes as to the sound.  One can easily hear the difference so it is quite important to upgrade to quality stuff.  The particular builder likes Audio Note cabling and uses different cables in their lineup to tune the sound to the customer's particular taste.  Even the choice of cabling to just one particular driver is something that matters.  In one particular speaker, the chosen wiring was a cable that costs close to $20k for a stereo meter (to the midrange driver), but a less costly run of cable to the tweeter (cheaper cabling chosen because the builder actually tried the same ultra expensive cable but could not hear a difference when cheaper cables were substituted). 

In short, I am saying that internal cabling matters quite a bit, so i expect the PAP people would be choosing the right cable to improve the sound of their own speakers. 

I just ran into a video posted on another audio website that describes an audio system with PAP Quintet speakers with the upgraded Fidelium wiring which was describe as "not a subtle upgrade."

Larry-

Thanks.  This is extremely helpful.  The system described is truly spectacular.  He really seemed to like the SA Fidelium internal wiring upgrade but was intended to use A23 speaker cables which suggests as you noted that the internal wiring upgrade will yield a benefit without also adding the matching speaker cables.

Again, thanks for running this down.

Hi,

I have the PAP Trio 15 Horn1 and had the Fidelium ribbons for trial on the interior wiring. They sounded good, a bit better than the VDH that came with the speaker, however I sent them back because I didn't think they sounded $1600 better. As silly as it sounds I ended up talking to Paul Speltz at Anti-Cable about using his wire for internal wiring, and we came to the decision of trying solid core 12GA wire (3.1) single run. I was blown away at the difference in the sound, clarity, imaging, bass, midrange, treble, you name it, it improved. The soundstage became much larger.  The speakers are much more dynamic, I'm thinking the solid core wire is allowing more data or current to get through, I hear details in pieces of music I never heard before, even with the Fidelium ribbons. It cost me $90 and to my ears they beat the Fideliums. I did see someone use the 4.2 Anti-cables on a PAP Duet pair, but don't know the results.

YMMV..check them out.

Jefferson

Jefferson-

Thanks for this.  I will reach out to Anti-Cable in the am and also see if I can get a loaner set of Fidelium ribbons from PAP.  

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650063017-pure-audio-project-duet-15/images/4878687/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650063017-pure-audio-project-duet-15/images/4878685/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650063017-pure-audio-project-duet-15/images/4878687/

Don't know if they'll allow these links of photos, but this is the Duet with the 4.2 Anti-Cable wire.

Jefferson

Since you are looking at alternatives to upgrade your Trios, at some point you might want to experiment with different capacitors in your crossover.  I know a custom builder who makes some quite expensive and nice sounding speakers and amplifiers and he tunes the sound to his and his customer's liking with choice of capacitors in the crossover.  He particularly likes vintage paper in oil caps from the likes of Western Electric and Aerovox, but, he also uses modern film caps from Audio Note.  I've heard the difference and it is quite substantial.  What he really hates is the sound of Mundorf caps--he finds them to be dry, analytical and unpleasant.  He can hear them when they are employed in amplifiers too and does not like the sound.  He also employs different internal wiring for tuning the sound. 

The thing that is missing in most speakers these days that is so critical to getting a speaker tuned--to the taste of the owner, to the room acoustics, and to the other gear in the system--is an L-Pad for adjusting the level of the drivers.  It is crazy, to me, that designers think they have got it just right for every circumstance.  I think adding an L-Pad would be another step in upgrading the speaker.  The Trio I heard sounded really good, but, I bet it could have been made more to  my taste with such control of driver levels.  My speaker came with level controls for the midrange and tweeter, but, because the midrange control only allowed for three setting, I put in an L-Pad instead and it is really useful for tweaking the sound.

Thank you all for the tips: wiring upgrades, different Caps, L-Pads and the like.  Ideally I would like to listen to these upgrades in my system before I commit.  I think step one is ringing PAP to see if I can get a loaner on some of these upgrades.  

Stay tuned.

I have my Quintet 15’s w/ Voxativ Field coils wired completely from Amps to drivers using Anticables speaker wire, I’m running the "FLEX" series from the amps to the crossover, then double runs of the bulk 12 AWG wire to the drivers. I have them twisted with negative positive to prevent any capacitance effects. I have been truly blown away by this set up and it costs a fraction of other solutions. A lot of speaker builders Cheap out on internal wiring and crossover components. The stock wire PAP sends with the speakers is just average. If you can, upgrade the crossover components to the premium Mundorf products PAP recommends. You will be amazed by the difference these make and are definitely worth the price.

Agreed, the Anti-Cables are the best I've ever heard on the Trio 15. I just run a single 12 GA wire, and 3.1 wires from Amp to Speakers. I did purchase the upgraded caps and resistors from Mundorf , that also made a significant improvement. I really like the sound I'm getting now. I didn't think the Fidelium ribbons added much and I didn't like the way they connected to everything, very awkward connection. Yes, and the price is right!

I am intrigued by the different wiring up grades.  My Trio15s shipped with Van de Hul CS 16 (red cable) and Van de Hul CS 12 (black cable) for the three runs between the cross over and the Voxatix AC 1.6 driver and each of the two 15 inch woofers.  I have corresponded with PAP about obtaining a loaner set of Silversmith Fidelium internal wires and it appears that they may have a set for in home trial.

I will post my impressions in the event that I receive the Fideliums..  

Thank you all again for the input and helpful suggestions.

I have the Quintet15s with Coax, and am looking at wire upgrades. I also have the Van den Hull wires. I am very curious about the Anti cables, as look good value for the price.

Yes the earlier post about having an L Pad can be useful, I had that on some of my earlier non PAP speakers. At the moment I need a bit more treble sparkle and details. My room may be affecting the level of bass, so good to try and tweak the upper ranges if possible in level, not alter the caps values.