@ozzy - that is because those publications only will review equipment that is sold in brick and motor businesses. They cannot risk to have a small manufacturer who may not stay in business not matter the sound. We don't sell that way so we are limited by publications, even though our stuff our performs almost all of those manufacturers. But we are not complaining. I remember a well known reviewer telling me, hey can you make 30-50 of these? I said, sure in a year! He said to me, well you have to be able to after I reviewed your product.
The overseas market has a lot to offer. Many speaker manufacturer has tried to penetrate the US market. Hard to find a distributor to take on a product line plus there is the repair issue. Look how many dealerships there are today from when you first started reading those magazines. Less by the minute. Everyone we approached to have their wears in our listening room always asks if we want to become a dealer. So what is the cost? About $50,000 minimum to get to become a sealer for a product line like cables.
Happy Listening to you all.
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Whole heartedly agree that Art Dudley is sorely missed! Beyond his obvious knowledge of equipment & audio reproduction, he was a great writer who probably could have made almost any subject fun & interesting with his unique, simple observational style of humor.
I do enjoy Jim Austin, the relatively new editor of Stereophile who has a lot of experience in the industry & is also a good writer. I also appreciate Steven Stone at The Absolute Sound for his clear, informative reviews of unique, almost bargain priced equipment. John Atkinson’s “ Jack Webb - Just the Facts Mam” approach is always welcome as are his pretty thorough measurements as opposed to the reviews of lofty stuff in the Absolute Sound that often feel more like a novel about life w/ hifi on the French Riviera than a review.
I still read most of it & enjoy it because I love listening to good music through a good system.
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It's certainly true that the mags are less relevant to audiophile life than they once were. The reviewers sometimes have useful insights into how to use a product, or its limitations, that I might not have figured out myself.
I like the ads! Pretty pictures!
I don't know anyone who would even dream of buying a $200,000 pair of speakers or amps - or even a $20K pair - except, ahem, me.
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+1 @facten
You nailed it. As my subscription runs out (I have maybe 2 or 3 issues left) I find that I blow through it, Stereophile, in about an hour and then recycle. Seems like such a waste.
Regards,
barts
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The Science hasn't changed - only those delivering the message. Once you've learned the Science, everything else is noise. You probably reached "Music Nirvana" years ago but forgot to filter out the noise. Has some gear technology's changed? Absolutely! But if you've been in this hobby long enough, you know better than chasing every new thing hitting the market. Over the past 20 years a few things in the stream have changed/improved (better amps, processors, DACs, Home Theater) but "the Science" remained the same. Once you've grown your system to near or showroom class, it should sound at the Audiophile level for years.
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Being retired, I have more time than ever to read , but the only magazine I’m currently getting is Stereophile. Mostly because the ads that lead down various rabbit holes. I read the threads here for the same reason.
Having said that, with almost all the hifi stores closing around me, I am reading more and listening less to new equipment.
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I would be very sad if the science of audio had not changed in 20 years, but certainly the measurements in popular press/dialogue are the same.
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Erik I think the problem is twofold there are just so many online publications not to mention Youtube reviewers. And a lot of reviewers seem to be reviewing the same gear as their competitors. And as stated above so much bad writing, I guess at least with YT that’s not an issue. However I like to read audio review while listening to music so no YT for me.
And Art Dudley is indeed missed as is Listener and a shoutout to one of my favorite long lost hifi rags Fi magazine.
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Seems audience for the rags is not audiogon posters. I wonder what their circulation numbers are these days, how it compares to other times. As for their audience, I stereotype it as wealthy novices. I do like Herb, he gets into smaller manufacturers, supplies plenty of context, also provides interesting asides, real four season individual.
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Excellent points, as above. I miss Audio Magazine and Stereo Review. Many of the "greats" in Audio press are gone or retired.
Happy Listening!
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Seems audience for the rags is not audiogon posters. I wonder what their circulation numbers are these days, how it compares to other times.
Stereophile reports circulation of 70,000 - that's a pretty strong number.
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@cleeds Very good info. Everything aligns with what I expected, with one major exception. Average cost of audio system at only $18K, wow, that's really surprising to me! Seems this is aspirational read for many, I assumed readers already there. But then they only expect to spend $1600 in coming twelve months! So this seems to say this not aspirational for many, rather pure fantasy.
Guess this shouldn't be totally surprising, I've long ingested auto, motorcycle media with reviews of products I have no intention or means to purchase. Still, far more interesting when one gets to point in life where they can afford one of these products, In my case Audi RSTT, RS3, Porsche 718 Cayman GTS. Dreams can come true on rare occasion.
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I still read it for the music reviews at the back. They're the first things I turn to.
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"Am I jaded, experienced, or has it declined?"
*L* All 3, I'd think....but I'll hold off on a final analysis until an 'office visit' IRL.... ;)
Long ago (71 and 'rising'...*meh*😏*), I too would plow thru the mags, pics, verbage, seeking that would raise interest both mentally, emotionally, and financially.
There came a time when The Pursuit had to be put on pause for awhile, but interest continued as a mere observer/listener; some would claim 'absurd-er', but they can continue to 'slaves to the rhythm' in their own means and methods....
In the interval, the glowing adjectives, verbs, and the pics got glossier as the $'s rose as well. When the choice btwn an amp and rent or a car became a bit blurred, but the specs only grew to the right of the decimal point (beyond which I couldn't discern a rational/reasonable difference....except in ones' choice of speaker/radiator....of course)....
I opted out.
I'm reasonably happy with the items I've amassed to 'feed the dragon'; it's 'black' enough on standby, 'clear & clean' to allow noting the differences in the mixes, the age of a recording within it's medium, and loud enough to drown out any doubts. *G*
The biggest issue is the space it's in, but have the means of overcome it to some degree. Learned that trick long ago... ;)
Done for a pittance in contrast. *S*
If there's anything that catches the eye & mind for the ears (not a lot does), I've learned Patience.
Eventually, 'it' will show up used.
I let y'all be the 'reviewers', as there's a lot more varied ears involved with a greater degree of opinions yay 'n nay. No paper to be recycled, no subscriptions involved, levels of interest and commitment not concerned with circulations and sales....
I thank all of you....and wish y'all well in Your pursuits.
Please do carry on. *S*
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Did you happen to see the recent review of the Gobel High-End Divin Noblesse Loudspeaker, in TAS? If not, here it is:
Bass: Check
Mid: Check
Treble: Check
Music: Check
Conclusion: Great Speaker
PS: It’s bright
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Please don't quote chatbots here. What they write is totally bland because it is programmed not to offend anyone. As Mr Dylan once said 'it says nuttin about nuttin'.
Don't forget we can all send in this rubbish.
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So..... i don't usually think it's a good idea to break down a speaker cost relative to drivers.... but damn. Gobel.
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There are a lot of reviewed items that are sold direct only and not in any stores so that line is nonsense, and the review mags I read are at least interesting. Are we really so stupid that we take any of it seriously? Fremer, who can be amusing, wrote years ago about some lame tweak item and then never mentioned it again, and insists you need a microscope and hours of labor to get decent sound from a turntable. I read US and Brit mags and some articles are interesting and others aren't, and all that should essentially matter to anybody is how the stuff sounds when you hear it. There's the rub.
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I have read TAS, and Stereophile for forty years. Whether in the market or not I read them to stay in touch with everything. The market has expanded enormously over the years both up and width. In general they have done a pretty good job of adapting. Not quite as good as they used to be, but no less invaluable in assessing the landscape and individual components. I added HiFi+ to the list a few years ago.
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A Charles Bukowski reference! Happy Thursday! My favorite of his:
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
― Charles Bukowski
Perhaps we see this more in our community than in publications. Marketing is a powerful beast and fuels confirmation bias which drives purchases and then unrelenting defense and proselytizing of purchases; even contempt for others with different views.
Thanks for the machine reviews. They are great!
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Here’s a clue to where the media in general is heading...
Digital media company, BuzzFeed (NASDAQ: BZFD), is going big on AI-generated content. According to Forbes, the company plans to use ChatGPT’s Open AI to generate specific content for the site, including quizzes - the first step in greater content creation using the innovative learning engine inside chatGPT.
"In 2023, you’ll see AI inspired content move from an R&D stage to part of our core business, enhancing the quiz experience, informing our brainstorming, and personalizing our content for our audience," BuzzFeed Chief Executive Jonah Peretti said in memo to employees.
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Bertrand Russell.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
― Charles Bukowski
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As ghdprentice sez... In any event, I might have already said this but I have so many stereo mags scattered around my listening room they could almost be considered acoustic treatments. I'll pick one up at random and read an article I've probably already read a dozen times. What can I say? The rags have targeted me with laser precision.
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Alan Sircom is a pretty good writer. But I really miss Art Dudley. Kind of reminded me of Henry Manney writing about cars.
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Am I jaded? My system and room is optimised but I don’t get goosebumps anymore. Maybe I’ve played great music too much and there’s hardly ever any great new music . Apologies for digressing. I also find that the Audiophile press has changed. Maybe the reviewers are similarly affected. Then again since COVID and now with the Ukraine war plus the poor global economic outlook our psyche is affected.
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My biggest complaint about articles is spelling. I am not good at writing but can not help noticing spelling errors. It is like someone is thumbing published work from a cell phone with no spell check. This happens even on the article titles.
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Currently listening to a CD quality stream of an obscure chamber music piece from obscure 19th Century female American composer Amy Beach on Idagio. Enjoying the heck out of it. Romantic, wistful, and full of melody. No complaints. Mellow out dudes!
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Edcyn: Which album are you referring to?
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I will say I do enjoy reviews by Christian Punter at Hifi Advice he's always very thorough in his reviews.
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Toilet literature. Paint. The bowl.
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Who wants to smell my finger?
Smell it. Smell it now.
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@alpha 100 --
Amy Beach, Piano Quartet in F# Minor.
Ambache Chamber Ensemble.
On Chandos Records. Idagio website.
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I've been tinkering playing collecting restoring selling trying vintage audio gear for 20 years. I'm 37, Recapped my first HH Scott at 17.
I have bought new gear, 80-90% I have been disappointed Macintosh, Marantz, PS audio etc.
Restored HH Scott, Fisher, Pilot, Mcintosh. Only held on to Pilot AA-901 pair from 1952, Saul Marantz gear and Harmon Kardon tube and really upgraded citation 16
I have read old magazines articles from the 50's-early 90's reviews.
main systems USA made Marantz transistor & tube
Harmon Kardon Transister and tube
1950's Pilot
Only new company Schit audio current dac.
Stereophile does not interest me, I've bought and tried new systems for fun in the past. My vintage gear sounds better! Has it been upgraded, Yes but not with fancy power cords or crazy speaker wire.
spending 40k on speakers or turntable is crazy. I'm not your average audiophile, not afraid take an iron to something.
Stereophile needs to review more affordable gear. There is really good gear out there, Made in the USA under 2k.
Not that I can't afford some of the gear Stereophile reviews in the past. Now i can't lol Quit my high stress job.
Chose to pay off my house vs having toys, nice cars. Vintage gear wont loose its value and can be passed down.
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Way back at the top of this discussion, someone asked, “Is paper better than the internet?” As far as magazines go, paper wins by a knockout. The internet destroyed the magazine industry and gave us very little in return.
Go to a newsstand, if you can find one. Pick up a magazine, any magazine. Chances are that it feels more like a pamphlet. Even one-time blockbusters like Vogue have been reduced to nothing.
I was a writer and editor for magazines in the financial press. Between 2005-10, it was ruined. Absolutely destroyed. Forbes, Fortune, BusinessWeek, the list goes on. Editorial staff, ad sales, and pages dropped by more than half across the industry. Many, many publications, starting with Newsweek, the rock of ages, closed their doors.
And what replaced them? Nothing. Well, Bloomberg bought BusinessWeek. But Bloomberg, as it would readily admit, is dedicated to journalism with a half life that can be measured in minutes. It makes no attempt to do longer form pieces with literary value.
In the audio world, we got a few blogs like Positive Feedback and SoundStage. I like PF. But it publishes one review per month of some very difficult to find and insanely expensive component. Lots of Von Schweikert, lots of CH Precision. I’m sure that stuff sounds great. Never heard any of it, never even seen any of it, but I’m sure that it sounds great.
Given the industry standard, Stereophile is a wonder. Still thick enough to merit perfect binding (where the pages are glued to make a flat spine, not stapled), still packed with writing and packed with ads. Niche publications are the only such magazines that are still doing well but, even in the niche world, Stereophile has done better than most.
I never read it back in the day, so I can’t compare today’s version against one from 20 years ago, or any other relevant time. And I don’t think this is the place for a stand-alone review of the magazine. But I can’t resist from adding that mine would not be kind. Recently, Stereophile published a show note of a $100,000 bookshelf speaker that “no exaggeration, no hyperbole” caused the writer to weep. The only thing worse than being sold apocryphal nonsense is the possibility that it’s true.
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“Is paper better than the internet?” As far as magazines go, paper wins by a knockout. The internet destroyed the magazine industry and gave us very little in return.
TBC, the monopolization of ad revenue by Meta and Google destroyed online publishing. While this has been broadly felt it was particularly hard on local journalism and has had a terrible effect on political journalism and what the public knows / doesn’t know about it’s governments (Federal to local).
My point is that the Internet allowed journalism and publishing to continue, but the monopolization and outsize influence of a handful of players is what really led to the collapse of the press online.
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I sort of get the glad handing of reviewers and manufacturers, the money thing.
As a years long viewer of "Top Gear", I loved it when they would wholly thrash a European supercar for its inability to simply fit through the streets of its home country. Or, point out that the talent of a large displacement Detroit engine was simply to turn petrol into noise. It was brilliant. I always felt that style of review could find an audience in the American culture.
"The essence of these large floor standers seems more of a Feng Sheu architectural room divider than that of a respectable acoustical transducer of music".
"The robust design of the amplifier leaned more towards an industrial door stop than the intended conveyance of meaningful enjoyable musical amplification".
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If you want to build a top notch system cost effectively, the old school niche audiophile magazines can be ignored totally these days. The winning products for both sound and value get a lot of coverage in other places.
Stereophile does at least often publish measurements, which can be of value if used correctly.
If it’s the more esoteric boutique products that are of interest then a different story. Nothing wrong with liking that stuff. It’s just that the average Joe will be poorly served thinking they have to go ballistic in order to get good sound. No longer the case. Happy days!
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In defense of all the ho-hummers on this thread concerning the similarities between the audiophile rags, the covers of a couple TAS and Stereophiles I got recently could well have been Mike 'n Ike. Hilariously similar. A three-quarter view of a tall, skinny speaker topped with a strange eye-like tweeter assembly. To the left of the speaker -- rectangular, silver-colored separates (okay, there was just one separate on the TAS cover) sporting a rectangular black glass cut-out on the face.
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😳😳😳. No need to spend any money. The perfect “system” is already there. In your own car. Enjoy.
Full disclosure: not everyone owns a car. Ask your bus driver to play some tunes 😉
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