Are warm or colored speakers disrespectful of musicians/producer/engineers?
Sure, they may be pleasing to the ear, but don't non-transparent speakers (and other gear) represent presumptive editing--across the board, regardless of the musicians' intent? Just a provocative thought. Let's be nice to each other if this thread takes off.
Since all systems sound different -- even the same equipment when in different rooms -- no one knows what the musician, engineer and producer "intended" unless you were present in the studio with them when the session was recorded.
So, for most of us, it always boils down to our personal preference when playing a recording in our home. However, those who routinely listen to live music, especially live acoustic music, probably have a better baseline with which to gauge whether or not their system is doing a good job of recreating the music.
Which speakers do you have in mind? Bose 901's? Klipsch Horns? Altec A7's? JBL 100's? These are all "colored" to some extent, yet have fans! Yes, a speaker with flatter frequency response and accurate phase will serve music better!
Who cares, if the warm/colored speakers cause/allow one to listen to more music. Even the musicians/producers/engineers win. Hard to pay more respect to anyone in the music business than buying their product.
Speaking of disrespect: How about the disrespect the artists/producers/engineers pay to their "potential customers" by releasing obviously bad sounding recordings? It's their product, so they can do what they want. But they might sell more product if the quality of the product was better. Maybe not, as the audiophile/aficionado community is such a small portion of the overall market for music. But why limit your potential market.
Not only speakers are disrespectful. So are power cords, interconnects, rooms, and people who do anything but sit and listen respectfully. https://youtu.be/vJpVlt1Y7rw?t=72
I’ll address some concerns that people have brought up.I mentioned warm or colored to differentiate that they were two different things.Personally, I was not concerned as to whether the musicians themselves would feel disrespected. Third, if the thread seems worthless, why respond to it? Next, obviously, each of us should listen to whatever suits us the best, independent of any threads we read. I wasn’t thinking of any particular speakers.What I was addressing was the idea of making every track you ever listen to bassier or smokier or whatever else because speakers or gear changes from the way the recording was designed to be heard. This is obviously no big deal to most of us, but I was just wondering about the respect aspect of this phenomenon.
Like internet radio where everything sounds basically the same? No. I just want my system to convey the emotion and not always sound as if each artist,band,etc. was recorded in the same studio/venue.
only if that gear makes you not want to spend money on new media.
respect = causing commercial success of the recordings. likely i would not much agree with many pro audio guys, but if they viewed my media spend i would be their best friend. they do, and i am.
if you have 50 or 100 trusty recordings that work in your warm system and you are not supporting the creative process then fix it so all kinds of new music turns you on.
otherwise.....enjoy. pro audio guys and artists could care less.
Who could possibly care? If you enjoy the music the creators are happy. Are you so full that you so think they are concerned if you heard it through a laptop speaker or IRS V's?.
Do you think that the farmer or butcher cares if you put A1 sauce on your T-bone steak? The music industry only cares that you consume their product. Now, if you go to a live performance and yell at the performers to turn up the bass, that could be seen as disrespectful.
I feel badly for m669326 on this thread. I think he actually had a pretty good topic for discussion, a LOT better than many of the ridiculous threads that are started here!
I think he has been misinformed in regards to "warm" vs. "detailed" speakers. They all have a range of all parameters of performance. The speaker is created to suit he creator's (manufacturer's) ears and their perception of how the music should sound. There is plenty of diversity in the community, such that one is almost assured that a subset of audiophiles will enjoy the result.
In interaction with speaker makers, I see little of the predatory, sales only, mindset that some skeptics here have expressed. I see much of the zeal for creation of the speaker that captures the soul of the performance. It appears many audiophiles have a hard edged skepticism in regard to manufacturers, as though predominantly concerned about the almighty dollar less than the sonic result. I do not find that to be the case.
i.e. making every piece of music with more bass, or "smokier"... This is done because the designer is imposing their personal preferences, according to how they feel the end result should sound. I do not know many designers who hold to the specs/measurements strictly. I believe that when they voice the speakers, most manufacturers feel they are respecting the music/artists.
Perhaps I'm not cynical/skeptical enough? But, I have had interaction with many HiFi speaker makers, and I cannot think of one who was not driven by zeal to make a product that was "honest" to the recording.
I feel badly for m669326 on this thread. I think he actually had a pretty good topic for discussion, a LOT better than many of the ridiculous threads that are started here!
I think he has been misinformed in regards to "warm" vs. "detailed" speakers. They all have a range of all parameters of performance. The speaker is created to suit he creator's (manufacturer's) ears and their perception of how the music should sound. There is plenty of diversity in the community, such that one is almost assured that a subset of audiophiles will enjoy the result.
In interaction with speaker makers, I see little of the predatory, sales only, mindset that some skeptics here have expressed. I see much of the zeal for creation of the speaker that captures the soul of the performance. It appears many audiophiles have a hard edged skepticism in regard to manufacturers, as though predominantly concerned about the almighty dollar less than the sonic result. I do not find that to be the case.
i.e. making every piece of music with more bass, or "smokier"... This is done because the designer is imposing their personal preferences, according to how they feel the end result should sound. I do not know many designers who hold to the specs/measurements strictly. I believe that when they voice the speakers, most manufacturers feel they are respecting the music/artists.
Perhaps I'm not cynical/skeptical enough? But, I have had interaction with many HiFi speaker makers, and I cannot think of one who was not driven by zeal to make a product that was "honest" to the recording. Report this
I am not often in the same boat than you but when you are right you are....
In interaction with speaker makers, I see little of the predatory, sales only, mindset that some skeptics here have expressed.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
I think the buyers are mixing up "Sales" with the "Manufacturing".
There are a few that sale direct to the public. The ones that don’t depend on outside sales.. Well they are salesman. They make a living doing it.. Sales could be Woody the used car salesperson or Edgar Perfect, "the all knowing" speaker sales person.. Your gonna get what they sell you, if your not careful. That is not the same as buying what you need or want. Sales people "spiel" don’t effect my decisions their pricing will.
Gear is 1/3 of the whole idea of Good Sound.. Unless you built a room for sound. Gear is 80% of the cost but 1/3 of the equation. Speakers take up 1/3 again with gear and cabling at 1/3 and 1/3. Not in cost but surely in effect..
As someone who spent many years working in recording studios, I can tell you that, in my experience at least, the final mixes of most music are a series of compromises made by the engineers to account for the many different acoustic environments the music will end up in. Small speakers were used to simulate car audio, cassettes were played on boom boxes, and large in-wall monitors were usually only to impress the clients. I don't think the idea is to have a final, accurate mix they want everyone to hear. Just something that sounds good everywhere. Audiophile lables like Chesky and MA may have a different method because they know their products are aimed at people with high-end systems, so they likely skip the boom box test.
Good point, chayro. It's hard to believe that those who in good faith long for "transparency" or "musician's intent" go to many concerts, where the sound is different in every hall and in every seat within that hall, just as it is different in every listening room. The obsession or belief in the sanctity of an artist's "intent" has been largely discredited (or despaired of answering) in literature, and to a lesser extent in drama and art--music seems lagging behind. Many audiophiles (on this one and only this one) topic seem still to be struggling at the gate.
Even with speakers I believe to be grossly unrealistic sounding I still think there was some well-meaning designer who had some type of sound in mind. Not all of us gauge accuracy the same, or as important.
I want accuracy and detail, but if it has to hurt with intense treble sibilants, I'm out. I'll err just slightly to warmth than to pain. If you want to leave the room, might as well sell the gear. I listen for hours at a time with stunning clarity and detail, full bass and never a hurtful treble moment with full output to over 16k. (Bless the sealed ribbon.)
So, I do not feel it is disrespectful to buy the speakers with the sound one prefers for enjoyable audio listening. And as many have pointed out, there are so many variables out as regards recording, live venue experiences and personal likes. I thought the purpose of owning all the gear was to enjoy the music?
When I pay for a product I use it as it suits me. If I want to use a screwdriver as a chisel or vice versa, then so be it. As to speakers and equipment, Not everyone has the $$$ to purchase the High Fidelity equipment. The too, ignorance abounds about how the music sounds live. Then too, most musicians could care less about having a high end stereo themselves. Can they then offend themselves? I don't think so. Nor do I think any would feel disrespected. If they were that would be OCD pettiness IMO. Also, how would they know what YOUR music system sounds like unless they heard it? As a musician myself, I'd just be glad you are listening to my music, even if it were with a wireless phone with pin head size speakers. Consider this. Sometimes using something strictly as intended is not as good for the Mfg. Jimi set HIS guitar on fire. Pete Townsend busted his to pieces. I suspect Gibson & Fender sold many more guitars after those incidents.
otherwise.....enjoy. pro audio guys and artists could care less.
We can’t hear what the recording artist hears because of the sonic differences in audio chains and listening environments. Also, recording artists may focus on different set of parameters than the listener - example: vocal, instruments, composition vs bass definition, leading and trailing edges, venue sonic clues, extended highs
any good recording engineer/producer knows that it's a jungle out there in terms of the breadth of mediocre equipment and listening conditions their music will face, and they plan accordingly.
More like are engineers disrespectful of well designed speakers.. Seems like these engineers are always piping up the bass or vocals to work with sub par electronics and portable stereo gear ...
Rather have warm/colored than harsh/bright any day....my tannoys make me want to listen all day long (I wish that were possible). So do my wharfedales for that matter. Wonderful speakers.
Simply put there is no disrespect. First, the original intent cannot be reproduced by any system due colorations in the playback system and the room that its played back in. If a room is glass lined with tile floors, a warm colored speaker maybe essential for an enjoyable listening experience. If I am not mistaken, this why we pursue this hobby. Second, we all hear differently and the customer is free to choose what sounds best given their listening environment. Lastly to reproduce the studio session as accurately as possible, you would have to purchase the exact equipment in the recording chain: the studio monitors, the amplifiers, the mixing board, and the source, not very practical. Even after all this, the room would color the final playback making the whole endeavor a waste of time. So the final take away is to pick what you feel best fits the room and your listening expectations and enjoy the music
I've known a few musicians, producers and engineers in my life. I've never heard any of them discuss the merits of the listeners speakers or environment. I think the only thing that is insulting to them are bootlegs. One friend of mine who passed way invented a recording process called "hot tip stylusing". This allowed more tracks to be squeezed onto an LP. You can thank him for some or many of the low quality LP's you may have. I told him "I don't think a Japanese engineer would have approved of his invention" He just stared at me. Nope, they just want to get paid. Joe
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