It would seem to me that there is an unsustainable amount of premium audio product in the market. It is hard to believe that the market is large enough to sustain all of these manufacturers, and it is not clear to me why these new manufacturers are expending the capital. I recently looked at a Stereophile from about 12 years ago and many of those manufacturers are out of business. Best Buy is not the problem for the true high end as it is only sold through dealers. I have no idea how the non core high end audio attracts enough volume to be profitable.
??? Are Manufacturers Killing Our Hobby ???
I had struck me recently that there is a GLUTTONY of equipment manufacturers these days & that,if not careful,the unchecked saturation of every corner of our hobby could bring about the demise of the entire industry..
There are only so many consumers of audio reproduction equipment to go around.The younger generations,as a whole,seem uninterested in the pursuit of music reproduction in the home..Live music events are less & less about the music & more & more about the "show"being put on..
Vendors at the last hi fi show I attended recently commented on how small the crowds were compared to previous years.
Too much of anything is never a good thing in the long run...Is it possible that the unbridled ability of manufacturers to saturate the market with too many choices could be a DEATH knell to our hobby in the not to distant future?
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@mitch2 + 1 - yes, first the big boxes and then the online retailers. Same thing's happened with bookshops and other smaller retailers, but fortunately, a few still manage to survive... |
@larsman - Big box was the first chink in the armor affecting local audio shops and then the internet came along with direct sales, which was a double whammy by providing the same stuff at lower prices (no middle man) and also by introducing customers to a much wider range of offerings than was possible for local dealers to carry due to inventory overhead and dealer agreements. This resulted in a perfect storm that many dealers did not weather, although there seems to be a few that remain successful selling higher end gear, in larger cities, to customers who enjoy the benefits of personal service. Hats off to them because it can’t be easy. |
From what I've seen, what killed off a lot of midfi stores was the same thing that killed off so many other retailers - huge boxes like Best Buy, Walmart, etc who could get much better prices from distributors than stores that couldn't buy as much and could undercut them in sales prices. I saw this happen with chains like Pacific Stereo from the 70's, and then Good Guys and Circuit City after that. |
@krkingar well said.. |
Maybe if “we” didn’t start almost every forum post with some form of personal attack on those trying to ask an informational question that contains not so well disguised language by those who seem entitled by the number of posts - I have been deeply interested in my audio systems for as long as my 70-yr old memory will allow - and in my post retirement life, I have resurrected my interest and equipment purchases to obsessive levels. I joined this group hoping to share my thoughts and interests with some “veteran” audiophiles, as I found that my passion and knowledge had not kept up with the changing technology. That being said, I’M DONE - I have found that I am hesitant to ask a question of the group for fear of some substantial level of insult or belittlement - I have only been a moderately active participant, but if you are actually interested in growing or maintaining interest and/ or membership you might want to look in the mirror - using abbreviations doesn’t make your comments appear any more intelligent and certainly doesn’t encourage participation by those who might have been positively influenced by your experience - let’s see what kind of abbreviation I see to let me know you don’t really care what I think - ! My guess is that the lack of engagement with the 20 to 40 yr olds may have less to do with dollars and more to do with finding somewhere more accommodating. And just for clarification, I’m not a prude - I have as foul mouth as anyone when I am in control and is appropriate- and there is little chance of me recommending my 38yr old daughter, who is developing her own obsession with vinyl (and sharing the interest with my granddaughter) to look to this group for information and encouragement. |
I’ve not taken the time to do research to back this up, but as someone who worked in hi-fi stores in my younger days, there were a lot more brands back in the 70-80’s. It was a combination of manufactures and consumers that killed a lot of the midfi stores. It use to be that shopping for a hi-fi system was an adventure. You would shout for a receiver, speaker, turntable, cartridge, tape deck, etc, it it might be done in a single effort, most time it was multiple visits to several shops. Then manufactures like Fisher and Pioneer wanted to make it easier for consumers, and they started to offer pre-packaged systems. Then we downsides to bookshelf systems. Again, no auditioning of components needed, jut buy everything in one package. Now we’re at a point when a lot of people use their little Alexa boxes for music. I have multiple midranges systems in multiple rooms in my house. Heck I even have a system in my garage for when I’m working out there. One of my son’s is a musician/music teacher. Listens to music on his phone. NO trust stereo system in his house at all. That is where we are. Convince of use and size is a dictator for the masses. Yes the industry is shrinking because a lot of people find their phone for streaming devices satisfactory for listening to music, and because of that, not enough equipment can be sold to support local hi-fi shops and/or manufactures like there once were. Just my observations. |
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The problem is not an interest by young people. It's the cost of health insurance, Dental costs, tuition costs, that keep them home with mom and dad. Costs of apartments, rental, or buying, food costs doubled, all have gone way high with few wage increases. No money for an expensive hobby. If cost of living lowers, buying increases. |
@immatthewj that college degree you spents tens of thousands of $ on didn't teach you much did it ??? |
@deep_333 lol I know the speaker in the image and it sounded worse during the demo but the person running the demo was trying to convince me that unrefined presentation to treble with a low of graininess is fidelity. And I had to look it up and found the same frequency response and thought of this looks better that that sounded. I guess the untreated space for the demo even made it worse
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Hey there Freediver, as you I was also not aware of audio equipment made in India. The market size just in that country alone approaches $1billion and the target audience is primarily Indian Gen Z'ers. High volume pieces are headphones, earbuds, mini-speakers and soundbars. Home theater is also a rapidly growing segment in India. The major Indian manufacturers are, in alphabetical order, Ahuja, Boat, Boult and Mivi. All of the companies design and manufacture their items at India based facilities. With the worlds largest population and the aforementioned $1 billion sales volume its not surprising we have not yet seen these products outside of India. But I suspect that the dynamics of our global economy will change that sooner than later. Enjoy the music. |
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@freediver Keep on keepin' on brother! |
@bbarten I appreciate your response to those who accuse me of trolling..I was simply making an observation that occured to me as I considered several threads seeking recommendations on speakers,amplifiers or cables & the barrage of choices they elicited... |
Hello Freediver, your query got my "research juices" flowing. Primarily I had to ask myself, "Hmmm, just how many audio equipment manufacturers are there currently? I went to a data source 9Boldthat I've used previously to get an estimate. Here's what BoldData estimates currently. Worldwide there are (I've rounded their figures) approximately 48,600 audio equipment manufacturers. China leads with 8,000 followed by India with 7400 and U.S. third at 5545. These 3 countries hold 42% of the global market with total sales at about $16.3 billion. Another source is "Mordor Intelligence" with forecasts total sales in this market to reach $23 billion by 2030. Those figures would indicate that the apparent "proliferation" of manufacturers is not hurting the A.E market buy contributing to its growth. Of course, there is a wide range of quality and price points produced within those 48,600 A.E manufacturers necessary to penetrate the diverse global customer base. I was most enlightened after my brief research of this subject. Thanks for your question. Enjoy the music. |
I think it's near impossible to fully understand all the moving parts and motivations of all the entities. People love to think they can analyze these things away but nobody knows all. But can't we let people be themselves without criticizing every little thing? I mean there are nested criticisms here. lol Which seems to usually be the case. I like when people go out of bounds respectfully. It's not the same ole and is mind expanding. You never know what other's open thoughts are gonna give you ideas you would have never arrived at otherwise. Not sure that works grammatically but there it is. lol Take Care Alll! |
This thread smacks of trolling!! How can having too many choices ever be a ba thing? As others have said. The free market will sort it out. Manufacturers who adapt to the listening habits of the populace will still thrive. Look how Focal and Sennheiser have begun manufacturing ear buds. Manufacturers are building streamers into their DAC's. The shrewd manufacturing entities will adapt and survive!! Meanwhile, the consumer is being given plenty of choice. I see no downside!! |
@dill Truthfully, I was wondering the same thing. But I guess it does draw attention to the idea that a question is being posed. |
"Because I already had a run in with 1 Karen yesterday before @dill ..WTH does it matter to anyone if I want to start my threads with ???......" Like I said before, it does not matter to me, just curious and now curious as why you won’t answer the question. |
Since Covid, there have been many new audio manufacturers that build expensive equipment that doesn’t sound any better than what is currently out there. We heard $35k speakers at an audio show that didn’t sound any better than my small revels in my 2nd/3rd systems which are 1/17 the cost. I see this more and more. But I also see legacy audiophile manufacturers making cheaper gear that sounds great. There are some new audiophile manufacturers that build expensive equipment (hundreds of thousands of $$$) that could be called the best of the best. I saw a few million $$$ systems in the last few audio shows that sounded fantastic. Its great to have choices but not every manufacturer will make it so if you buy equipment from a new boutique company, you might not have support in the future and will have a hard time selling down the road. For example, I had the top of the line Classe monoblocks and when they were in business and then out of business, I got nervous since the amps had a lot of newer technology in them, I sold them at a much reduced discount because the new buyer knew of any future risks, and the amps sounded fantastic |
@mwinkc Because I already had a run in with 1 Karen yesterday before @dill ..WTH does it matter to anyone if I want to start my threads with ???...... |
If the manufacturers have covered all the bases, why can I not find a SS preamp with the versatility of the $800 Schitt Kara and the $7900 Coda 07x, but with a price in between those two and SQ approaching the latter? (This for backup system -- LS28SE controls the main setup). |
This is akin to asking whether too many musicians and musical genres are harming the hobby of listening to music. As for whether I agree with the opinion that live music isn't about the music but all about the show being put on by the artist, I'll politely disagree on that. 1. I welcome the fact that there is a plethora of choices in the "hi-fi" market that allow people to get into the hobby these days without a huge investment and possibly buyer's remorse. Sure we can denigrate someone for listening to music on a sound-bar but I'm not going to denigrate someone for listening to music on a pair of wireless speakers. If that floats their boat...great. Allowing people to upgrade as they get into the hobby is what it's all about. I recall going on group rides, and there was always one Dr/Lawyer/Dentist in the group that would belittle someone showing up with the "improper" cycling kit or an old steel bike and not take them seriously because said "serious cyclist" was riding a top of the line carbon fiber Pinerallo or Colnago w/ Campy Super Record. 2. I enjoy listening to music and have various ways to do it with my mid-fi system I've upgraded over the last few years. I do enjoy exposing friends and family to what music can sound like on a decent, not expensive setup compared to their Google Home/Sonos speakers. But many aren't hard-core music listeners to begin with. I have a handful of friends who actively collect records, and their set-ups are modest at best. None have a high-end dedicated streamer or DAC, let alone a CD player. 3. The decline of hi-fi stores has been happening over decades so it's not a sudden thing, and honestly, I don't have the time or energy to drive across state or out of state to demo gear. What we have now is a "hi-fi" ecosystem that people can get into with nominal effort and work their way up and search the world wide interwebs for manufacturers they've never heard of or wouldn't have normal access to where they live. If anything, I'd say the plethora of choices actually encourages people to really start dedicating time to listening to music as a serious hobby and not audible wallpaper. |
@mahler123 +1! |
This is another one of those threads that begin with a false premise as an attempt to stir the pot. "Gluttony" is probably the wrong word since it mostly applies to the consumption side, not the supply side. The premise then advances into fear-mongering, i.e., "the unchecked saturation...bring about the demise of the entire industry." It sounds like what we hear from the news these days, "some are predicting...the sky is falling." |
Anyone has a right to start a thread the way they want to unless it violates forums rules. So many speech cops in our lives today. Just idiots