Am I a hopeless audio snob?

I have an old JVC QL-F6 which looks just like the Japanese DDs everyone loves to despise. Only thing is it‘s a stonking good tt that has left a few jaws on the floor. It‘s real fun to see the look of revulsion turn into a WTF?

Consider me a convert! I had a chance to hear a SL-1200G-S and it is very nice indeed. My apologies for the manner in which I started this thread, but I sure did get some good feedback. 

Technics new tables are excellent. Especially for the cash.

Wont win you the envy of friends and local audiophiles though.

I have had a number of good tts in my system through the years, including the SOTA Star Sapphire, SOTA Cosmos, Teres, and finally a hotroded Technics SP 10 mk II.  You're going to buy the table that you like but don't rule things out that really deserve a listen. 

You can see my Technics setup in My System. It was better than anything I had earlier and not by a little bit. You can, to a point make it look however you want, but the sonic strengths of it are worth whatever limitation you see in the cosmetics. 

The newer Technics tt's certainly have strong visual connection to the cheaper DJ tt's.

The SP line is another tt altogether, visual appearance up to user, many routes with custom plinths such as mine.

And I prefer my SP MKII to VPI I formerly owned, both visually and performance wise.

lewm+2

Richopp, sorry old chap, but your paragraph on tangential tonearms is rife with misinformation. For one example, The best part about the B&O SL turntables was the MMC1 or MMC2 MI type cartridges with which the best of them were equipped.

Furthermore, the vintage Technics direct drive turn tables at the highest level (SP10 Mk3) are competitive with just about anything you can buy today for under $10,000. Whether one given individual will prefer the sound to that of a modern turntable is of course a matter of taste. On that scale, the current prices of properly refurbished and repainted examples are not exorbitant. My opinion, of course.

The current Technics SL-1200G is a fine turntable at its price point. It is stronger on rythmic drive and bass coherence than it is on tonal refinement, but an excellent performer nonetheless. While it looks like the old disco 1200, it does not look or feel cheap in use. However, if aesthetics are a problem, there is the SP-10R, or the SAT XD1, which does use the latter's drive system. Costs a few $$$ though :))

I wrote “brief fling”, so no, I certainly don’t still own it. It still has a certain kitsch however for having been featured in the movie “Clockwork Orange “. If I had one I’d display it with the platter in rotation but I’d not connect it to an audio system.

@lewm 

Well, sorry you did that, but I am sure the dealer was happy!  We found that the record did not sit on the "pads" very well and the arm, therefore, traveled more in a vertical direction than it should, so we never really got it to work.

However, if you still have it, it sure is pretty, so I would have it out for people to look at, anyway..  I think they stopped making them in the early '80's after they moved the factory or something.  Anyway, they still have parts and I think will service them if you can find them.

We also had tangential arm tables, which physics people say are MUCH better at tracking than normal arms.  Unfortunatley, only B&O had a good one, and it was VERY limited by a mediocre cartridge that could not be changed.  Once again, PRETTY product, as all B&O stuff is. 

RABCO made a stand-alone tangential arm as well, but it was pretty clunky.  I wonder why someone has not invented a new one since they are truly more accurate than regular arms, and today, money is no object.  Technics SP-10 tables, SOTA back then, were a few hundred dollars.  Today, I have no idea, but thousands, I think, which is ridiculous, but whatever sells, right?

Cheers!

Richopp, that’s the one I had, for a brief fling. The Vestigial tonearm was a hoot. But funnily back then I bought in the shortlived belief it was SOTA.

Personally I find a Technics SP-10 or -15 series in an aftermarket plinth much more visually appealing than most of the fancy gizmo-looking belt-driven tables out there, but to each their own. Sometimes less is more. I do tend to agree, though, that Technics might be limiting their sales by making their $4k tables look nearly identical to the ones you can find on Facebook Maretplace for $500.

@lewm 

Well, you asked for it:

I was gonna post this one but I thought those unfamiliar with the product might miss some of the wonderful details.

Fun days...we had one on display in the showroom to incite conversation, and it did!

Cheers!

asvjerry:

I married a Robert Palmer Girl (Black Irish - close enough) and she's still HOT 30 years later. 

Have not kept up with Bob's girls.

This said, I find the OP's final choice to be B-Ugly as far as TT's go so,...

you know the old beholder saying.

DeKay

mijostyn

5,659 posts

01-22-2022 7:32am

@secretguy , you asked for it and I will double down. VPI makes inferior equipment. If you own one I suggest you get rid of it ASAP before your cartridge explodes. I am not a big Technics fan but I would take one eons before a VPI. Even the Linn is far superior. How's that for BS? I have a lot more if you'd like.

Keep spewing your uneducated nonsense. That'll teach me.

Great move with HRS !

@pilrem Yes on the AMG and definitely Yes on the HRS.  S or M levels platforms are amazing. Which AMG?

"" so I don’t get why you started a thread based on a swipe at Technics and Japanese products in general without at least also mentioning your extensive prior experience and knowledge...""

lewm+1

@pilrem 

R.

I think your fine and you should get whatever makes you happy. Looks are certainly an issue, so it’s your money, you need to be happy with all aspects of your purchase. 

Audio snob? I think not. If I were in a position to upgrade my turntable I'd go with an AMG. In the mean time I'm sticking with old Denon and Pioneer tables.

I've got a $4000 Technics turntable, and it is great! It may look like a 'DJ turntable', but underneath the hood, it most certainly is not. And you'd need to be a pretty strong DJ to haul this thing around! 

I was in the same situation 2 yrs ago, I ask my friend what TT he can recommend, He said go VPI , clear audio, I look into it, I end up buying SME 10, I am super happy with this choice, A year later I saw uncle Kevin talking about Vpi Prime scout with blem video,  I purchased VPI tt with blem for my second system,  white color from Uncle Kevin. Happy as well.Audio is a choice choose what makes you happy, as long as there is budget.

AMG also make fast Mercedes Benz’s.

Your choice, like my choices, is the natural result of your past audio experience. Thus it’s very personal. I’m glad you didn’t just follow a dealer’s advice blindly, as one might have inferred. Congratulations.

so I don’t get why you started a thread based on a swipe at Technics and Japanese products in general without at least also mentioning your extensive prior experience and knowledge and that you probably never had any interest in a Technics TT. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

@lewm - I would consider myself an exceptionally experienced listener. I have built my system piece by piece over the past 30 years and have journeyed through B&W, Musical Fidelity (A3cr is still a favorite), BAT, Rotel, Zu (Zu DL103 carts are a fav) Kimber, Nordost, Music hall, and the list goes on... The point I am making is that the journey is a big part of the joy of this hobby. Many steps along the way.

My system now is easily $100k plus, Dedicated listening room, Dedicated circuits. If I would have skipped these steps, I don’t think that my ear and appreciation would be developed to the point I would like to think they are. 

I have always loved the sound of AMG turntables. AMG was a machine shop in Bavaria that manufactured components for high end tables from Brinkman etc. They were owned by a father and son. Years ago, Garth with Musical Surroundings entered into an agreement with AMG to build and market their own products. Musical Surroundings had distribution for the Americas.

The father died and the son wanted to take things in a different direction, so he ended the agreement with Musical Surroundings. I was alerted of this and was able to secure one of the remaining AMG rigs that Musical Surroundings had. Since they no longer have the line, I was able to negotiate a great deal. Not anything like 50% off but a good deal. I had to jump at it.

Next, I am buying the custom HRS platform for AMG. A/B listening revealed that this is a worthy move.

I hate this "golden toilet look" audio design.

For me it is like trade off between "golden toilet look" vs sound quality.

Turntable should look like turntable, speakers like boxes and so on.

What happened was you noted an objection to the appearance of the Technics G series turntables, without actually naming them, and this elicited a bevy of responses from the belt drive crowd who are typically activated when anyone mentions the possibility for denigrating a direct drive turntable like all those made by Technics. So your thread devolved into a belt drive fest. That group was further divided by Mijostyn who could not help mentioning his particular distaste for VPI. His distaste for VPI then elicited responses from a bevy of VPI lovers. And the beat goes on. I would advise you to spend a lot of time listening to various types of turntables including both direct drive and belt drive types. They do have their distinctive characteristics if you are an experienced listener. If you are not an experienced listener then you may hear no important difference between the two types. In fact, the best of both sound closest to each other. Then it depends how much you want to spend. As an aside, the technics G series turntables top out at around $4000, which you mentioned, but there are less expensive versions that can be had for far less money.

But it seems you made a purchase based on the advice of your dealer. What?

My OP was meant in humor.

I must admit, the more I look at Technics TTs the more I like. Perhaps @rauliruegas can be my guide? However, I still don’t understand the meaning of "enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS." And why the yelling?

My new TT has been delivered to my dealer; it’s going to be an anxious few days before I can pick it up. I have set up many carts in my day - and I have invested in the equipment to do so. However, my dealer is a master at this so I will defer to his expertise and ear.

Until then, time to crank up the close-n-play!

Richop, I am lying in bed this morning, thinking for some reason of this ridiculous thread, and the Transcriptors Reference came to my mind too. There never was a cooler looking TT. For looks alone it can’t be beat. With the OEM Transcriptors tonearm, it can’t play records very well but who cares? I had a brief love affair with it. With a modern tonearm it might rise to the level of average performance.

The  Reference version had a huge plexiglass dust cover hinged at the rear, which should make Mijostyn happy.

Well, if looks is what does it for you, try this one:

It does not actually work, but it sure is pretty!

I have to laugh at TT prices today. I sold lots of Linn-Sondek’s (REALLY bouncy) back in the day for about $175.00. Arms were extra; SME was popular--$135.00 as I remember.

Cheers!

@secretguy , you asked for it and I will double down. VPI makes inferior equipment. If you own one I suggest you get rid of it ASAP before your cartridge explodes. I am not a big Technics fan but I would take one eons before a VPI. Even the Linn is far superior. How's that for BS? I have a lot more if you'd like.

I own the Technics MK7, yes not the high buck G or GR, but for $999 (final price about $630 after discounts/points, cash back, etc) I think it is a great looking table. I'm drawn to it's strobe and the fact I can easily play 78 records. I've outfitted mine with a Shure M97xe cartridge with the stabilizer brush ( how 80's is that?), as well as KAB USA glass platter/thin technics rubber Matt combo, isonoe feet, and a Nordost power chord and Atlas phono cables. So basically, I most likely spent what the turntable costs in some upgrades....I love it. Also installed an auto lift for end of side. 

My other tables include a Music Hall walnut MMF-7.3 with Ortofon 2M Bronze, a Pro-Ject The Classic SB in Rosewood with Goldring Eroica LX MC cartridge and step up transformer, and my newest table, the Avid Ingenium. I like them all and will not get rid of any of them. I almost forgot, I also have the Thorens TD 240-2 fully automatic belt drive bright wood finish with Ortofon OM10 cartridge pre-installed with a Super OM waiting in the wings. What a wonderful turntable it is. You gotta have at least one fully Auto in the stable...JMO. 

Buy what you like. At a certain point, the level of performance will only be revealed in direct comparisons. The Technics is still a player- I have an SP-10 that I bought new in 1973 or thereabouts, and it is performing yeoman's duty in a vintage system after a light upgrade from Bill Thalmann. That will soon be 50 years- no it is not my main table, but it is in use in a very high grade vintage system. 

There are lots of interesting turntables out there, including some that have been around a long time. The unfortunate thing is that you can't meaningfully compare much at a dealers and listening to one offs in people's homes won't tell you much, because the rest of the system is an unknown. 

I don't churn equipment, but buy to keep and realize an advantage in not spending the same money more than once. Thus, I can concentrate on cartridges and records--the latter of most interest. 

There are some seriously good record players out there and I am not sure I'd buy new. Arm- that would involve more moving parts. Cartridge- I'm suspicious of "used" cartridges, though I have had some rebuilds that were great for the money. I don't take shortcuts here either, though. 

I'd be interested to know of recent Platine Verdier ownership experience. It seems a bargain, given the design and price, and has been around forever. Arm is a different matter, as is cartridge. 

“VPI is garbage.”

That explains everything. When I get home, in the trash they go….

Agree with Kuzma, Reed and Thales. Look at these.

@edcyn MMT = Sumiko = Made for them by Jelco. The SOTA with a modern arm and a refresh will serve well… enjoy the music. I still have a 3020.. in the garage…fun

To the OP, more than a few guys at the Vandy owners forum ( Vandy site ) with different tables and Quattro, some AMG, Brinkman, SOTA, VPI, Clearaudio, etc….

Jim

*L*  No, you're just hopeless...;)

The 'snob' kicks in when you've declared that you've 'found your way', and all others are either demented or doomed to ignorance in ignoring your superior ears and intellect....

Anyway, enjoy where you go and with what...

@dekay , OK, a R. Palmer girl.....white as a ghost (standard issue kinda sheet ghost) in black and 'vapping' on the instruments....

They're a bit 'older' now.... ;)

Part of an audio manufacturer's marketing plan is not only to make a superior product but also to project an aesthetic appeal.  That is a valid consideration in making a purchase.   Personally, I hate  the look  of B & W speakers (sorry, Bowers & Wilkins). Fat stubby monsters regardless of the quality of their sound.  If I hadn't heard about the quality of the relatively expensive Harbeth speakers, I would have regarded them as ugly cheap boxes right out of the 1970's (I'd never have them in my house).   You certainly need to pay attention to the sound quality of equipment as #1 but almost equally important is that you are happy with them aesthetically.  There is a lot of high quality, good looking turntables out there so keep looking  - you'll know when its right.   So according to ddriveman, I'm also an audio snob and love it!

Yes, you're an audio snob. In my opinion, because you chose to make audio decisions based on looks and perceptions...rathervthan your ears.

Technics turntables are very good especially the 1200G and SP10R. Also the older generation SP10mk2 and SP10mk3.

It was the British HiFi press that out the spin on belt drive vs direct and idler drives that was wrongly favoring belt drives and made vinyl playback into a Linn LP12 world.

I get where you're coming from. Aesthetics in my audio system was never a priority for me as sound quality was always my goal. But when I decided to upgrade my analog rig, a 1976 Linn, I wanted something that looked like an upgrade as well. I went with an Avid Acutus Reference turntable with SME V arm. There may be better units out there but I never tire of its looks and it sounds great to me.

This post might stray a bit from the subject at hand, but allow me to ramble.

I started my adult, finally-have-money-to-fuel-my-stereo-nuttiness with a Technics direct drive turntable bought from a high-pressure guy at a local Pacific Stereo. Not much later I started hanging with a dude who turned me on to the world of Hairy Person and G. Gordon Holt. Smitten by the mags, I bought a Denon 103 spherical tipped moving coil. I played it straight through the standard phono input of my NAD 3020 Integrated, with the volume knob at somewhere around Two O'clock. Yeah, it sounded great but it couldn't track its way out of the proverbial paper bag. Absolutely laughable inner groove distortion. The cure? A Shure V-15 with the brush thing-a-mo-bob hanging off the end. Tracking was glorious but the tone didn't quite cut it.

Meanwhile, my status in the audiophile club was severely compromised by my direct-drive turntables (which was now a Denon), so I blew the bucks on a SOTA Sapphire with an okay-for-now tonearm (what was that brand again? A something MMT?).

I have to say, that the SOTA-based system provided a whole new world in happy listening. By the same token, though, the tonearm's bearing always seemed to be loose, so I traded it in on an Alphason. Yes indeedy, that Alphason improved fidelity all-round. It now supports a Lyra Delos, but I think the Delos might be near the end of its service life. Orchestral string tone is dirty once again. Or is the culprit my rescued-from-the-closet Moon step-up device which replaced my oh-did-I-love-that-thing Mytek Brooklyn Bridge...which recently suffered a particularly ugly death?

Most quality TT above $1k will most likely be pleasing sonically.

Not too sure about that. Around 1976 I bought a cartridge for my turntable that was 400 bucks, around a week's pay for me. That is $1960 in today's money...it sounded good but just average really and that's just the cartridge. 

Win a lottery and buy the Tech Das Air Force 1 TT. A cool $100K! Beautiful design!

I have a Technics turntable in my office system that I purchased sometime around 1978 for I think $150 and I have a Clearaudio turntable in my main listening room that costed over $3K. 

Love the looks of both turntables and they both sound great paired up with their perspective systems.

Aesthetics definitely play an important part in the turntable you choose because if you don't like the looks it will affect your enjoyment. 

Following up on another post all parts of the system will affect the SQ but the turntable and cartridge play a major roll.

Got a chuckle😀

Get where you are coming from...

I want my TT to look like a Robert Palmer Girl.

DeKay

Dear @pilrem : No you are not snob but with low knowledge levels in the overall TT specific subject.

" I am plunking down some serious money on my next table..."

Money always helps but the main issue is to know exactly which audio item(s) we need that could fulfill our MUSIC/sound priorities through our room/system.

Buy a new TT is not easy even for the experienced audiophiles because there are several and different issues to take in count about not only the TT.

First we need a " serious " cartridge, a TT/plattform, good tonearm, good tonearm internal wire, good IC cable, good phono stage and many other " good....." things that inside the more important is our first hand experiences with live MUSIC events seated at near field position and to analog rig overall set up.

Now, if you already own those good " items " to sorrund the TT you are ready to buy it.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Turntables are a real hard choice... I have owned several, including the Technics.

I have come to the conclusion that 90% of your choice should be if the aesthetics appeal to you...Most quality TT above $1k will most likely be pleasing sonically.

More importantly.. the cartridge and setup.

Thank you for your 1950s attitude toward Japanese made products. Perhaps you were sleeping the last 60 or so years.