I'm new to the HiFi world. I listen to a lot of female vocal and classical music. I like both digital and vinyl. I am using a pair of Wharfedale Linton heritage and PS Audio Stellar Strata.
I know this is too broad a question, but with 10K budget, where can I wisely spend my money? I don't mind tubes and I don't mind used either.
@llid2 Assuming your hi-fi isn't creating unacceptable noise (it shouldn't be), noise comes off the electricity supply, your house wiring and other electric stuff in the house and, for low output MC carts from radio intererence. The amount and quaiity of noise is very variable between locations.
Don't imagine you've got excessive noise if you can't hear it. Switch on your amps and turn the volume up slowly. There will be some noise and it will increase in loudness as you turn it up. But many of us find we can turn it up all the way and we don't find anything unacceptable or over loud even at that volume level.
For the rest, first put your hi-fi on dedicated line(s) taken directly off the incoming supply. Then improve your house earth (ground) post. Try listening again. If you still have excessive noise, buy an active power conditioner. Power cords are passive and will have nothing like the same effect on cleaning things up.
For $10k systems, don't spend much on power cords, active components must be improved first.
I concur that buying two front ends at this level is costly in sound quality. Choosing between analogue and digital at this stage will leave a lot more to spend on speakers and amps.
Listen to Open Baffle, Electrostatic/Planar, standard box speakers.
What I love about this answer is how practical it is. Others have emphasized the critical starting point of speakers and speaker-room synergy. This answer both presumes that and gives you a compass direction -- try basic types of speakers first and establish that preference. Then, look to brands of this speaker, then to amplification. That's very, very orienting advice.
I agree 100% . Don’t assume electrical fault, test ! Adjust as necessary setting up dedicated audio circuits. Look at your room size and treatment, Size does matter, Great sound requires comparable acoustic volume. Decide on a preferred music format, research and target product in that regard. As a rule I don’t assume, it generally wastes time and money. There’s many a hand grabbing at your wallet and truck loads of garbage so research and dialogue is a must. Enjoy the hobby and the music.
I was in your shoes, OP. Lots of great ideas. Here are some thoughts.
Interconnects, power cords, speaker wires. I spent about 1100 for all of it. I bought all mine from Pine Tree Audio, an internet seller. Sounds fine to me. There are several others that are reasonable. I would not go wild on wire.
Streamer: the top selling is probably blusound about 600. There are also ways to lower noise on digital sources. This becomes a separate post. In general, power cord upgrade, get rid of wall warts. Inline filters such as NA Eno or Ether Regen. Hard wire ethernet to streamer, cat 6 or higher.
DAC. I would keep the one you have now.
Preamp/amp: Nice integrateds available now. Integrateds take less wire and space. You can buy tube or solid state. Tubes are a warmer, lusher sound. Tubes dont work well with inefficient speakers. there are some high powered tube amps; most are less than 50 watts. Solid state more detail power better at running low impedence loads. Hybrid(tube preamp and SS amp) integrateds available. You could keep the one you have now. Rogue is a good value, they make a variety. A class A/B amp usually have more power but run Class A at lower volumes. Class A are usually lower power and warmer sound, Leaning towards tube sound. Class D are detailed and energy efficient. This is a general classification sound signature and power matching between amp and speakers are important.
Speakers: Most speakers are what I call inefficient. Either low sensitivity or low impedance drops at certain frequency ranges. Horn speakers are more efficient. They can be harsh if built cheaply or paired with wrong components. It sure would not hurt to try other upgrades if you like the general tone of your speakers.
Other: have you spent time with speaker placement? Component isolation can sometimes really open things up. Cover windows and or buy room treatments. Do you have enough power or the right speakers to fill the room?
Phono: I skipped this for several reasons. It can be incorporated into your preamp or be it’s own component. I didn’t add this to keep down costs and clutter.
These are general suggestions to get you started. I would spend on several things. It would help if you have a dealer handy or friendsto help.
Go digital. Bluenode server. Denafrip DAC, preamp, amp, and 2 good speakers. You are done. You will get best sound for the money. You can choose tube integrated also, like doge, or primaluna integrated. As simple as that, you will have 90% nirvana. For another 5% yo need to get to 50K budget.
The 1st thing I would do is to purchase the Robert Harley book 'Complete Guide to High End Audio'. Read chapters concerning choosing a system, allocation of funds, how to become a better listener, system setup and room acoustics prior to those dealing with components.
Think through where you see your system going regarding digital vs. vinyl source. You may wish to improve one source at a time. With digital you have access to a vast store of music at much less cost than vinyl.
Think through your take on how your existing system is playing into your room to better identify what improvements you wish to make.
Ask yourself what funds over the 10K you now have you might be willing to spend on your system over the next couple years. Allows direction on expenditure.
Well, all I have for now. Hope to hear back on your journey. Good luck.
I haven't seen you state whether you live in a house or apt or condo. Neighbors?
Permanent residence? This will severely restrict you system choices. Unless, of course it really is female vocalists. I think you'll find as you build a really nice system you WILL play it louder...because you can!
If you are planning on continuing on this journey I would advise find the type of speaker you really like and then get the best of that ilk you can afford. Then treat the room, then find the proper power amp(s). Then source components and cabling. My mantra is build it backwards.
I intentionally left out dedicated power because we don't know your housing situation.
The problem with asking a wide open question you will get a wide open set of answers that won’t make your purchase any easier.
There’s a benefit of better power cords/cables, but for your system, $125 power cord will get you a bigger benefit than you think.
There are many ways to go with your system but to get better sound quality, I would keep the strata and dac and replace everything else. Nobody can tell you to go the tube amp route without knowing which speaker you have, it would be foolish. If your speakers are on the inefficient side of things, you either need to go with solid state or a very expensive high powered tube amp.
There are many speakers out in the market used in your price range that sound excellent: Revel studios 2, Revel F228be, Usher BE10, Totem, and others.
Try to attend a big audio show or visit audio stores across the country that will have a lot different systems to listen too before making a decision.
good advice from @mesch- learn more, see the big picture, before spending the big money
we who are experienced at this hobby tend to gravitate towards speakers as the key improvement (assuming proper placement and room, as always) in one's equipment choices, but that being said, it would be wise for you to share your source equipment in use currently - after all it is a chain, so garbage in leads to garbage out
as a noobie at this, we should not make common assumptions w r t what you are doing, what you have other than the speakers and amp you mentioned
speaker and interconnect cables from (I really like Mogami cables): Take5
I really like these power cables (after trying more expensive ones and don't like how stiff they are): volex
maybe replace the ps audio phono preamp with: 110lp
I have a very similar setup and love the sound. Check my system details page if you are interested. To sum up my recommendations:
the speakers are easy to place with their downward firing port, natural sounding (great for vocals and strings) and go deeper than your current speakers
the amps have plenty of drive in them for the proacs and are on the warm side to match well with the proacs
I’ve tried the cable dance before and settled on Mogami products (it is what a lot of studios use). I like the 2549 for interconnects and the 3000 series for speakers. the furutech 126(g) connectors for the interconnects and nice quality bananas for the speakers. also, if you need XLR, he can make them or has them.
I’ve heard really good things about the 110LP phono stage and I am tempted to try one myself, especially since it is so quiet, like the simaudio moon integrated recommended above.
You’ve been given a number of good suggestions and a number of different directions so you most likely have a lot of thinking and research ahead before you make a decision. When you do narrow down some of the components you are interested in and are looking to the second hand market take a look at tmraudio.com. You will pay somewhat more than buying from an individual but they offer a two week trial period and if you are not satisfied you can return and pay only the round trip freight.
I will spend money wisely by adding a subwoofer to your system to begin with. I had Linton that, as you know, the low end goes down to 40 Hz. When I pair the nimble bass from Linton with a fast subwoofer (down to 24 Hz), it really enlightens my ears and the overall listening experience with a variety of genres of music. In addition to taking advises from this forum, look for useful information from reliable reviewers. REL has a good 60 days free trials / return policy and that might be a good place to start.
I'd hate to be a newbie looking for advice on this forum. Lots of crap in this thread.
For the OP listening preferences, a tube amp would be great. But his speakers are not sensitive enough to take full advantage.
Good full size speakers with great midrange would be your best bet--Tekton is a controversial brand, bashed by those who have never heard it, but they are very linear with great midrange and pair well with tube amps. Awesome for classical music, jazz, and vocals. Just don't post here that you bought them.
For a tube amp I highly recommend Decware. There is a 2 yr wait but they pop up on the used market about twice a month and sell immediately. I've been alert and bought 2 in the past 6 months.
You can get the speakers and amp for under $10k. You won't need a preamp.
On the other end of the spectrum is electrostats, also excellent with your music choices but a power hog. I have a pair of CLSs and a Kinki Studios integraged amp which is an undiscovered gem. You'll need a sub with CLSs. There are a lot of used MLs on the market. Try hard to listen to them before you buy them and do your research.
Go have a listen to the KEF LS60 (Baby Blades) and see if the sound and the utter simplicity of the system appeals to you.
You only need to plug the 2 speakers into the wall outlet and connect any analog sources you have (if any) to the preamp in the speaker. This is KEF product and not a one person shop so you are getting some top end gear made to spec.
Placement options are the most flexible since it has built-in DSP. You can put them against a wall if required.
I have a poor man's version of this with the passive KEF LS50 Meta and KEF KC62 sub. It sounds excellent. The LS60 should be better than what I have.
A local Best Buy with Magnoloia should have these speaker available to listen.
llid2, lot's if different recommendations here, here's another for $10K
Keep the Denafrips DAC, it's not a limiting factor for you. Bluesound Node latest model 130 I think) is a good streamer as long as bypass the internal DAC and go to the Terminator. You didn't mention CD transport or I missed it, but AudioLab 6000CDT $600 to the Terminator would be great.
Cables do not have to be crazy, maybe 10% to 15% of total cost. Power upgrade (dedicated line ($200/300?), high quality plug (Oyaide, PS Audio Power Port, etc $100) good power cable $200 will deliver nice dividends
Speakers and amplifier should be your priority, but I definitely recommend demo time with them.....and take your time, nothing worse than rushing and having to take a loss on something you don't love.
I'm new to the HiFi world. I listen to a lot of female vocal and classical music. I like both digital and vinyl. I am using a pair of Wharfedale Linton heritage and PS Audio Stellar Strata.
How did you arrive at ^that^ set up?
- purchased new or used? Or given/loaned to you?
I didn’t read much of this but Used is your way to go. System I’m currently listening to has MSRP of approx 10k. All in I’m like 2k. Other one is Msrp 20k and have 4.5 k into it. If money was no object maybe I would buy new?? Probably not though as I like a deal.
Ever notice how the one thing critics of investing in upgrades to power components have in common is . . . NONE of them have actually used any of the suggested upgrades?
I am a long time audio fan, going back to when RTR decks were standard equipment. I recently reached a point where I am able to equip my small listening room with decent quality components, I would describe as entry-level audiophile grade, and my system investment is around 10K (not including headphones which is a whole other topic).
When I reached that level, I decided to take a look at upgrading cables and power, including a used empower power conditioner. I'll skip the endless technical debates and just cut to the chase by stating that the improvement is not subtle, its dramatic.
The adamant "wires are wires and bits are bits" trolls who claim that investing in cable and power component upgrades is "nuts" are simply highlighting their complete lack of understanding as to how actual MUSIC (sound) is transmitted to the human ear, NOT to test instrument measurements.. Simply put - all music is sound waves (analog) and all audio equipment runs on electricity (the electromagnetic field) and both of these have countless ways of interfering with each other and degrading the final sound that reaches the listeners' ears. Minimizing that interference is crucial to the listening experience.
That said, I wouldn't necessarily go all in on th4ese upgrades up-front, but once you've made a decision on quality components, not supporting them with upgraded cables and power components is truly "nuts".
The adamant "wires are wires and bits are bits" trolls who claim that investing in cable and power component upgrades is "nuts" are simply highlighting their complete lack of understanding as to how actual MUSIC (sound) is transmitted to the human ear, NOT to test instrument measurements
It is oh so hard to build a system....all components sound different working with different components. My system is all from the same manufacturer....so they all do the best they can with the same voice values.
To the OP. I have not read any of the comments above, so this might have been discussed. 1st, welcome. Given your current system and your large room, have you optimized your listening seat / speakers ? In other words, do you have a " sweet spot " in which to listen. As a newbie, it will be imperative for you to determine what are the qualities you are looking and listening for, during your listening sessions. I am an audiophile ( all of us are, on A'gon ), but, I am a music enthusiast 1st. People will spend thousands and thousands of dollars to improve their listening experience, but this experience is different for each of us. The largest thread here ( under amps/preamps ), concentrates on the " sound " of the gear. I followed this thread for it's entire 6 years, but l have lost interest. Why ? you ask. An example......David_ten simplified the words I tried to convey there by stating " I want to know WHY the musicians are on stage, not where ". Yes, soundstage, imaging, 3 dimensionality, good bass and extended and airy treble, etc. are all exciting to hear, but the essence of music is the " performance ", by our favorite recording artists. Relax, and determine if your female vocalists are reaching you....do you have a connection with them ? Are you able to tap your feet ? Are you " ENGAGED " with their playing / singing ? Are you having fun ? This, is the essence of music listening. I am not saying in any way that upgrades are not important, but I am saying......what do YOU want ?, and, what are you " not hearing / feeling " ?, when you listen. As a newbie, it could be a while to find out " who you are " as an audience member, because this in essence what we are creating with our audio journey. Your room acoustics, your listening seat, room reflections and bass issues, can all be dealt with, now, before any other purchases are made by you. If I made at least a single valid point for you to digest, great. Always, MrD.
Replace the Lintons with either Legacy Signature III or Focus. Both are high efficiency speakers that only need 35 watts (but good current) amplification. They cost between $1500-2200 (Sigs) to $2500-3000 (Focus) used. Big sound, big dynamic range and excellent frequency range. GroverHuffman cabling (high end at moderate cost). Used gear galore to use with those speakers. Used VPI turntable/arm with a Dynavector 20X2 H cartridge for the table which will work with a wide range of MM phono stages. A Denon 1500 or Kyocera 310/410 CD player for a few $100s. Under $10K easy to get great sound, used. Room treatment/power to equipment though will make a big difference Stick mostly with solid used equipment at a big discount to new (except for the cartridge).
@gwilmot I'm still using the two pairs of speakers I recommend. Also the L version of the cartridge and a Kyocera CD player for the second system. So you are wrong in a blanket assertion.
Someone mentioned an Ortofon Black cartridge. The MM cheapest version is great on about 15-20% of records and yuk, off sounding on the rest of one's collection (My friend had one for six months and could not take the majority of his discs sounding bad). He is using an AudioTechnica (especially nice on mono LPs as well) and a Denon 160 instead.
You have a pretty nice starter system, so what's your endgame? Will you go past $10K. I started like you then got the bug and went nuts. You may also. So with $10K, based on my own personal experience, "fix" one part of your system and be patient. You can get a nice Luxman integrated, or a great pair of used Focal or Magico speakers, for $10K (for example) or less. Don't pay for an integrated DAC. You have one, and in the future you can get a nice standalone. I found a great DAC makes a huge difference. I have HOLO audio's best and it's amazing. I would not pay huge dollars for cables. Copper for the most part is copper, and I'm an engineer. Good luck, have fun.
Whatever you do, do not waste the money on cables and power conditioners. That’s the very last 1-2% improvement after you’ve already got your reference system. Spending money on power conditioners instead of better speakers is the worst advice I’ve ever seen. Speakers have the most impact on your system.
Whatever you do, do not waste the money on cables and power conditioners. That’s the very last 1-2% improvement after you’ve already got your reference system. Spending money on power conditioners instead of better speakers is the worst advice I’ve ever seen. Speakers have the most impact on your system.
I wouldn’t go crazy about the research. It’s supposed to be fun, enjoy it more than dwelling on it.
The Lintons are not good speakers. I had them for a month. I had not one good thing to say about them.
The Rega 3 is great. I would buy 4K speakers (BBC or Danish origins, Sonner, or used SF) and test out different amps. NAD, Musical Fidelity, any $1000+ articles on Crutchfield. Don’t blow 10K, you will get a great system from well under 6
My only tip is don't walk into an audio store and tell them you are a rookie with 10k to spend. Listen to some speakers and amps . That is a lot of cash and if you spend it wisely you can put together a really nice system
You have a decent UK speaker, 10K is enough for your system to play classical music well, as long as you use your budget efficiently.
First, you can try the Energy-Pump power cable on your amp, it's free if you don't think it will help your current system. In the days to come, I will use my decades of audio experience to guide you on how to gradually upgrade your system within your budget.
I loved the looks (from the pictures) and it seemed like a good combination for my needs. I was warned by the dealer that they are not audiophile speakers. But I didn't listen. I was a rookie. Still am.
I have not read every post in this thread, but have you identified the areas of your present system that you feel need improvement?
Kindly allow me to share a recent, and very fortuitous learning experience. After many years of "going it alone" in my pursuit of better and more satisfying audio, with varying degrees of success and failure, and a not inconsiderable amount of wasted time and money, I found a wonderful audio dealer who is low-key, extremely knowledgable, sensitive to my preferences and needs, and who carries an assortment of fine components at various price levels. So far, based almost completely on his advice, I have purchased two major components from him, and each one has exceeded my expectations.
My point is, that on this and any other audio forum you will get endless suggestions from all sorts of people. Some suggestions may be accurate, some may be useful, some may be off the mark, some may be off-the-wall and hilarious. And some may be beyond worthless. (including mine of course). :)
And finally, I think that throwing $10K at power "issues," real or imagined, is a sure recipe for a morning- after headache of cosmic proportions, along with what might prove to be a terminal case of buyer’s remorse. YIKES!
Throwing out small suggestion on how I would spend your money😁 Luxman 505UXii. Spendor A4 speakers easy to power and room friendly. You can add a Bluesound node and a RME-ADI dac. That would be close to your 10K budget.
You speakers are what talks to your ears. Without quality speakers you may not be able to hear the benefits of upgrades.I say spend $6,000 on speakers...sell your lintons and Strata and that $3000 gives you 7,000 to spend on amp, music server, power cords and interconnects. $5000 on a luxman or Accuphase...2000 on a music serve...
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