I have a pair of NHT VT1 speakers. The drivers seem to be in good shape. They have paper cones and rubber surrounds. After 30 yrs, should I upgrade crossovers and replace drivers?
If they’re being used as surrounds, I’d leave them alone and play them until the woofers fall out.
Long(er) answer:
I’ve been doing speaker mods for decades (including owning a speaker patent).
Here’s some thoughts on the subject of "fixing" old vs new:
It’s very unlikely that a "healthy" woofer will degrade much over time. Rubber surrounds have a long life expectancy. We’re pretty proud of our work, but are still surprised (and often stunned) at how much music can come out of vintage drivers when you get things out of the way that make them sound worse. There’s a difference between "fixing" (repair/replace damaged components) and upgrades (improving the sound quality) of a speaker. "Fixing" old speakers is usually very cost effective and a no-brainer.
The following comments refer to upgrades.
We set a budget before we begin upgrades. This budget is 40% of what it would cost to replace the item with a new(er) version of a similar design. If the hot, new version (same brand, or other brand) is, say, $2,000/pr, then I set a ceiling at $800 for modifications. This number is not arrived at scientifically, but is merely a performance vs cost evaluation based on my experience. It represents a number that is less than half the cost of a new replacement.
While it is possible that the modded version of an older model may not exceed the performance of a new model, it is also VERY likely that a modded model will do SOME things better than the new model. I say this with some level of confidence in that a modded speaker will most certainly have better internal cabling, better components in the critical signal path, improved connection/termination methods, more attention to vibration, etc. than the production version of the new model. WIth the new model, you’ll still be "hearing" components that are cost-driven, performance compromises due to strong considerations about production efficiency, and serviceably in the field (without a soldering gun), and just hitting a target price point.
This methodology has produced predictable, consistent, and reliable results over many decades.
I wouldn't spend money upgrading the drivers and crossovers unless the speakers have a real special place in your heart.....it's just not cost smart in my opinion.
I did that on my original 1980s Infinity RS Kappa 7s, but I've owned them since new and were my first audiophile speakers.....and are very important to me and my journey; won't ever let them go. Plus they now sound amazing
I have a pair of Infinity 7 Kappa’s i bought new in 1992 that I power with a Yamaha M70 amp I purchased new in 1983 when I was 23 years old. I had the amp recapped for $350.00 by a local shop recently, in Dallas. I had the subs refoamed a damping upgrade added to the spiders and the polydomes rebuilt by Miller Sound in Pennsylvania(they have the parts to fix the polydomes made) for a total cost of speaker repair $405.00. I swear they sound better than new. The kappas are as beautiful as the day I bought them. This system has a very warm sound and is perfect for my family room. I do have a listening room/Man Cave with Zu Omen def supremes powered by a Pass Labs XA 25 amp that is obviously superior by most any measure, but with DAC and streamer added in is an $18,000.00 investment. While I love the Zu ODS/Pass Labs system if I didn't have a spare 20k including cabling laying around I could live with my old system and be happy. I say if you like the sound of your system tune it up and save some cash.
I don't understand the logic with some on here saying don't put money into 30 year old speakers and don't fix it if isn't broken. Well, I went exactly against all this advice and put money into an old pair of Infinity Kappa 9's nobody wanted.
I spent $200 for the speakers in rough shape that were missing 3 out of 4 of the 12" woofers and the polydome mids were trashed. They were made in 88'-89' so about 35 years old, the crossovers needed attention and that's where the new life came back for them. Some tweeters were not working as result of the crossovers failing. I fixed everything and replaced every capacitor, about 23 total per speaker. It was about $700 in capacitors and I have about $1300 into them. I find they sound phenomenal now, brought the efficiency up fixing the crossovers. Capacitors definitely go bad, drivers if the surrounds are still good, you're good there.
Do what you feel is right and your budget can handle. I know there's always better speakers out there than your NHT or my Kappas, but for me it was the right decision to fix up and not buy newer for much more. I smile everytime I fire up the Kappa 9's paired the Parasound JC-5 amp, Ayre KX-5 Twenty preamp and my little budget Schitt Bifrost 2/64 DAC. I'd like to add another JC-5 and some Rythmik subs and maybe get into streaming one day. But for now what I have will do.. I'm not made of money, going out and seeking new speakers wouldn't have been a good decision, but $10k for the amp and preamp was...and so was fixing the 'old' speakers..
If the speakers are all working, with no defects, not sure it's worth touching.
However, the XO might be in need of an update. yes, caps can last decades, even out of spec can work almost perfectly. Just replaced the caps in my XO's, while my speakers sounded just fine, after swapping out the 10 caps (5x per speaker) WOW, like OMG WOW, sounds like a new set of speakers! Way more bass, way tighter bass, silky midrange, high top end. My tone controls needed to be reset, tweeter went from +3 to 0 bass went from +6 to +3.
It was the best $50 and 2hrs of work ever spent in my system.
Thx for all the input. As of right now, I think I’ll go on the one thought, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. They still sound pretty good. Besides, they’re only used as my surround speakers at this point, so thanks everyone. Down the road if necessary, I’ll upgrade with modern technology
I have a pair of Bozak Urban 301 that are 60+ years old that I enjoy the heck out of. After I inherited them from my father circa 1993, I have had both 12” woofers reconed, and refoamed; replaced one tweeter ( because I damaged it accidentally) bought on eBay; replaced the crossovers with OEM with the Pat Tobin mod, also bought on eBay; rewired internally; and, refinished the cabinetry. Total cost—not counting my own labor—I estimate to be less around $1000-$1200, spread out over a period of about 20 years because I didn’t do it all at once. For instance, I just had one of the woofers reconed and refoamed for about $75 plus shipping. And, these speakers sound fabulous. I have no way of comparing them to contemporary speakers, but as long as I’m happy with their sound, that doesn’t matter.
As an aside, I recently had my Thorens TD124, that I also inherited from my father, rebuilt to look and perform as if brand new, but for about 3 times the cost of the speaker refurb. I still have his Pilot amplifier to have rebuilt, but for now, I’m enjoying playing music on my vintage turntable, through my vintage speakers, attached to my “modern” Yamaha home theater amp.
My point being: if one derives pleasure from “vintage” speakers, it doesn’t cost that much to have them refurbished when and if necessary to keep on enjoying them.
I have a pair of Boston Acoustics A150’s. I’ve re-coned the woofers but sound excellent still. 40 years old! Point being yours can sound great, too. If the woofer surrounds are not disintegrated and they sound good I’d say leave them alone. If you can eye-ball the caps would be good to make sure they're not leaking.
It’s nice to know the cut off for speaker value is 30 years ?? Pompous load of Doodoo, I think the First consideration should be the quality of the product. A Hi end excellent speaker of the past will still put many to shame today. I’ve people in my group with the likes of Tekton to B&W, Sonus Faber, and more, they’re happy I’m happy. My Infinity IRS system is spectacular and hands down considered the cream of the crop in that group. Granted you need the space having that, next was the total expense… middle of group ! Refurbished I’m good for years to come. It’s a hobby you can rebuild, modify, great sound doesn’t have to equate to great money.
Degradation in SQ with rubber surrounds is brand and design dependent. I do not know your speaker. In a vacation home in Vermont I have a vintage system used for background music, with 1981 DCM TimeWindows, with rubber surrounds. It has been published that the drivers in this brand and model have longevity. There is no change in durometer of the rubber or SQ of the speakers from my experience. However, they sound like 1981 vintage speakers, through good ones for their day. If needed, I would not invest any money in them even though they have sentimental value. There has been so much improvement in speaker design and SQ at all price points that I would go new.
Crossovers can last waaayyy more than 15 years. Hell I just sold a 50 year old sansui 9500 that would put the majority of integrated amps under 5k to shame. I know it’s not a speaker. Original caps other than a few small input caps replaced. If there’s nothing that sounds “off” I wouldn’t mess with it.
upstairs system has original Paradigm Studio Monitors. Same thing 30 years old sound awesome, lacking no where compared to my main system downstairs.
The Xovers are totally worn out ,having upgraded Xovers a long time the capacitors dry out for sure after 15 years or less , you loose detail and then uneven output per speakers ,then just stop working.
@pureclaritysorry, I missed the problem statement in your OP! do you hear distortions, or any kind of sound problems' to fix? If not, why to “fix” anything?
Speaker design (fix) can be very challenging, and needed some assessment, x-over sims, measurements etc, not available to everyone.
The NHT VT is a good loudspeaker, but it's not a special loudspeaker. I have a pair (VT-2, I think) in a bedroom mainly used for watching video and they work well. I would advise not putting much, if any money into them. NHT won't help you with any info on the crossovers or drivers. So unless you're a real DIY kinda' fella it's not worth the money to even figure out what you would need to change. As long as the drivers are in good shape you're pretty much there. The loudspeaker are what they are.
A true low cost change would be to replace the internal wiring.
You might have to go on Audiokarma for vintage gear and repair of said gear. It seems some here would report not to bother recapping or reworking any thing over a certain age. I guess we should put all our vintage gear into a landfill!
If you like the speakers and want to keep them, there are some things you can do as described above to keep them going another 30 years.
If the tweeters have ferrofluid, it's worth refreshing. FF gets thick or dries up, and affects performance.
Parts upgrades are worth some consideration depending on the parts they used originally, and depending on your system, abilities, and desire to do so. Caps from the 90s tended to last longer than caps from the 50e/60s, but there are a lot of excellent grade caps available now. Cheap sand cast resistors and iron core inductors can also be upgraded with wire wound non-inductive types and air core inductors....stick close to original values. Cheap speaker inputs and junk wire can be upgraded too. You can replace push on connectors with direct solder if you go this far. You can also bypass fuses and circuit breakers for better sound. This is also a good time to check stuffing, bracing, insulation, etc. Each of those are pretty subtle as stand along upgrades, but doing all them can have a big impact, and kick the performance up a notch or two.
About the worse recommendation I’ve seen on here yet.... You always want to think about long term maintenance on your equipment, especially after it gets older than a couple decades. All electrical components degrade over time. You would not get on an airplane that had this type of maintenance policy, would you? Granted speakers are not airplanes but maintenance is important on ageing vintage gear, I’ve lost amps due to caps failing. Do not follow anyone who says if it isn’t broken don’t touch it, that’s asking for issues.
Driver’s unless visually bad are probably fine. some will say to rotate them 180 degrees every couple decades, so the suspension relaxes evenly. This helps prevent uneven sagging and voice coil hitting the magnets’ structure. I have drivers that are 50+ years old that work fine.
Crossovers can be and should be checked caps do go bad, not as often in speakers as power supplies though. But it’s easy to check these items and if fine leave them. Or upgrade if that’s something you’re interested in.
last thing yes put money into old speakers if working well and sound good to you, its not a lot of money we are talking about. You're not going to buy new speakers that out perform these for what a little maintenance will cost. not even close. vintage gear can and is fun and surprisingly good in many cases. will newer ones sound better, maybe yes thats for you and your wallet to deside.
After you calculate the cost to replace the cross-over and driver, and time, I suggest you also listen around for new speakers or newish but used, in the same price range. You may be able to enjoy an upgrade for a similar price, or not, but worth shopping a bit.
I don’t know about your specific speakers. There are some where the rubber surrounds on woofers go bad over time and crumble, but, others do not suffer this fate. I recently listened to a terrific system using 75 year old drivers. If you had a speaker with the kind of surround that was most vulnerable to aging, it would have gone a long time ago. Even if the surround goes bad, the driver can be repaired by someone replacing the surround (often called re-foaming for the foam rubber employed in the surround).
As for the caps, they can go bad over time, particularly if they are electrolytic, but, they can often last a very long time too, so it is not necessarily the case that they need replacement.
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