Would you move to a bigger house if you could just to have a better listening room ?

Hi pinthrift,

Your room is a big challenge indeed, it's good that you managed to make it work.

@fleschler

My room is far simpler but accomplishes what rooms many times their cost do.

The walls are 6” deep, the ceiling 14”, filled with rock wool, and covered with fire resistant burlap. The rock wool is there for the thermal barrier, the acoustic treatment it provides is a freebee. So the only cost was the fabric and the sweat equity of installing it.

Based on my architect’s guidance.

I’m a cheap rat bastard.

Hi inna, thanks for the topic,

Most of my audio life has been moving from place to place for my chosen work.  My existing dedicated studio is a great sonic challenge 10' x 7 1/2' x 10'.  Prior was a heavily worked large space...large monitors, a full-blown SOTA Star Sapphire turntable (post Allen Perkins/Spiral Groove w/Fidelity Research 64fx arm)...this was my GoN sold Nova active preamp

Nova Electro-Acoustics CPA-100 Stereo Prea... For Sale | Audiogon (audiogonstaging.com)

...amp was an Electrocompanied Ampliwire II, a sweet overachiever.

If interested, elsewhere here, one can follow my journey into the digital world.  Room tuning includes GIK, ATS Acoustics and DIY open cell foam.  Precise, expertly applied DSP (thanks Mike) and the BACCH Plug-In bring this room to a level I'd never dreamt possible, far beyond the vinyl rig above. 

These last dozen years, despite having my close friend Thurson's costly dream systems in a huge space with which to compare, both vinyl sourced and digital, I am truly contented.  Yes, if cost were no object, I would have multiple sized rooms.  Yet, for my flavors, this system can deliver ANY form of music, and, I'm highly eclectic...Mahler and Beethoven, Feat, Cooder, Eva, Mutter, Evans, Blue Highway, period choral, Mingus and beyond.  Thanks, Mom, for instilling..."...where there is a will, there's a way."  

More Peace!  Pin     Happy Juneteenth!       (bold print for old eyes)

We moved into a newly-built home 3 1/2 years ago and the developer was willing to somewhat "customize" the bonus room above the garage, resulting in the best sounding room I've ever enjoyed!  This house will be an awesome place to grow old in!  So "no", would not be interested in a larger home!

@hikerneil stated " If you had this new house, and could design your own perfect 2-channel music room - how would you size it? "

There is a few Thousand Years of History where the human has developed disciplines for controlling sound. This has evolved continuously, as a result of careful study of the most efficient methodologies. 

Amphitheatres go back to BC, which one could call the earliest Audio Visual sound system 😎.

Auditoriums arrived much later and will usually be seen as an enclosed space, die to the Roof Structure. I would take a Punt, and say this is when controlling reflected sound become a new area of science, as the musical experiences to be had in a auditorium, would have been available to quite well off educated individuals who were paying good money for the attendance at the location being suggested as being the ultimate of acoustic controlled environments??  

Today there are University Departments that have done extensive studies, and shown the merits of what can be referred to as Traditional Room Dimension Ratios, in comparison to modern conceptions for a Room Dimension Ratio.

Additionally, there is enough known through research about how materials used for a structure and the structure itself will impact on the sound, i.e Solid Concrete Floors, Suspended Timber Floors, Solid Brick / Blockwork Wall, Studded Dry-Board Walls and Density of Cavity Insulation plus Insulation Density itself.

Much of this is Science and not the easiest to break down into layman terms, but fortunately due to the popularity of the Subject, as a result of Recording Studio Structures and Home Entertainment Spaces along with Music Replay Interests, there is plenty of basic description to be discovered.

My own room, which is to be a outside of the home room, is now recently changed with altered ratio dimensions, as a result of a new discovery of work undertaken and is to be produced using dimensions produced by Richard Cox from investigative works carried out at the University of Salford.

With the want to increase the floor space in the main home, the Main Structure is increased in size, with the intention to add to the spaces suitability to be multitask. With a consideration for my Wife, the main homes space for a Gym is now relocated to the New Design Structure where a Gym /Sauna is to be put in place at the North End. Abutting the Gym Room will  be the Audio Equipment Space, that will be created to be a very secure storage, of a dimension easily able to be kept at a suitable temperature and humidity.

The Wall that separates the Main listening Space to the Audio Storage, as a resuly of speaking to friend who designs/builds speakers is to be air sealed cavity of a yet to be determined Volume. This will allow for a Insertable Panel to be used to allow for different drivers to be tried out as a Speaker. This could work out very well for Audio Purposes as an alternate Speaker to ESL's, but will certainly be quite useful for Audio Visual Movies and the like.

The main space outside of the Secure Space for Audio Equipment will be created using dimension ratio's from Richard Cox, once complete it will be a Blank Canvas to undergo treatments to create the most attractive end sound that can be achieved for Stereo Replays of recordings. Audio Visual will be the poorer cousin in relation to creating the ideal end sound.

Recent impression made through experiencing different Speaker designs has brought to the forefront a new desire for the long term used Audio System to be introduced to a wide selection of Speakers from a range of designs such as my  ESL's being used for their first time with Subwoofers and possibly a Upper Frequency Driver as well? vs Horns vs Cabinet Types and even a DML design. Having a space such as this, will take a little getting used to, as the Audio Equipment has always been nurtured within the home.

The Space will lend itself much better than the home space to having such a speaker collection at hand and will be more reassuring in relation to the Valve Equipment no longer being within the home, especially the 845 Monoblocks, with the risks these and other Valve devices pose as a Audio Device. 

My wife will also benefit, as a listenable throughout the home SS based audio system will be put in place, to give her a musical experience as she would like to regularly experience.      

@unreceivedogma I did basically the same, from a 25X23X11.5 dedicated less expensive room to a very expensive, near SOTA 20X15X10 room where it was extremely easy to locate speakers correctly without DSP.  It has 16-17" thick multi-layered and sealed walls, a 12" 3000 psi steel reinforced concrete floor and built-in bass traps using activated carbon filtering chambered boxes throughout the walls.

I moved to a smaller house and got a dedicated listening room. 
 

theaudioatticvinylsundays.com

Not a chance. The waste of extra property tax, heating and cooling, and maintenance would eat away at my peace of mind. In fact, I'm building a new house soon and it'll be in the 1800 sq. ft. vicinity. One good thing about living in areas that allow basements is that it is the ideal place for a listening room. The concrete walls are natural bass insulators and it's fairly inexpensive to make an appropriate-sized listening room.

I would never give up my 26-foot diameter Futuro house because its design is so futuristic that it looks like it is from a far more advanced planet. It is big enough for Magnepan 0.7's and bigger Magnepans use pure ribbon tweeters that are more fragile than I want. With absorbers and diffusers, a Futuro is big enough.

Moved 3 or 4 times for above mentioned purpose....

Landed on a house with a huge basement that i could repurpose/redo as i please. I also looked specifically for 2 floors above so spouse can reside 2 floors above without having to be bothered by spl levels (i.e., buffer zone floor in between).

P.S

Moving house too much could cause divorce....Watch out ....

Yes….

If I had the land available with my existing house I would be a listening room. Then it’s detached and the design could fit the engineering needs. Few homes have proper design. 

jhills,

-40F ? It's winter North Pole temperature, that's incredible. I do know how this kind of cold feels. However, I don't know how to do winter mountain driving with tire chains. This requires special skill, I think.

I don't know what dedicated listening and dedicated listening room are but that's probably due to my ADD and hyperactive nature. I would go crazy in a minute in a windowless, stuffy room.

The only way I listen to music is if I can do two other things at least in the same time.

@inna If living in the mountains of MT, in the winter time, yes to the Jokla parka (sometimes -40F) and a reliable 4X4 truck and a good set of tire chains. Even though MT is getting ever more crowded, still is a beautiful state, summer and winter, with a lot of open spaces.

Nope. Prior to retirement we sold our house and moved into a townhome. I now have way more free time to pursue my interests which includes fishing, hiking, travel and of course listening to music. Washington State has incredible outdoor recreation and I much rather spend my time salmon fishing instead of mowing the lawn.  I managed to adapt to a smaller listening space and now dedicate hours every evening for listening. Sure a dedicated listening room would be great, but it’s not worth the trade off in time and money IMO.

I do have a 13x24x8 foot space, unfortunately it’s the family room full of furniture so converting it would be bad for my health and wellbeing - self preservation is the higher priority 😉

No - I hate moving too much.

House in Montana..

That would be a great adventurous move from New England. I would have to get Jokla parka from 66 North Iceland for those winters. This company makes excellent stuff. Recommended. I would also have to get used to driving pick-up truck. Not a big problem. Endless space over there.

I agree with @feldmen4 and that ilk. I rarely "just" listen to an album. I could be eating or cooking in the adjacent open layout kitchen or watching sports on a muted TV or reading. My total open space is about 15x30, but not an ideal listening space with the irregular openings and windows on one side, but I have the speakers 3 feet from the wall so I have it set up the best I can. 

I could easily take one of the unused bedrooms (less than half the size of what I have now) and treat it perfectly, but I wouldn't listen to my system nearly as much as being in the central hub of the house. Luckily, my wife is tolerant and we have some guidelines, and she likes a lot of what I listen to, but has yet to touch the stereo (other than the volume knob) in 30+ years. I guess if I had a home theater dedicated room, I would try to accommodate a stereo system in that space. However they typically are in basements, and I don't want to spend my time above ground below ground.

I’d be fully satisfied with a 20x30 room that is fully dedicated for audio with no openings on any side. With most medium-sized speakers and monitors, a 16x24 room in the same design would make me quite happy. The floors would need to have concrete under as suspended floors resonate. The ceiling slant is quite important too. No angle causes the most first reflections. A 30-45 degree angle is too steep and increases cubic volume considerably, making it harder to fill, so a 10-15 degree angle would be my choice.

My room is 19x24 now, but on suspended floors, a fairly aggressive slanted ceiling, and an opening to the mid-to-back right. 

I much discusion here about Large Room or Smaller Room.  If you had this new house, and could design your own perfect 2-channel music room - how would you size it?  

@inna And that’s just New England, imagine Montana or Wyoming.

Born, raised and lived most of my life in Western Montana. I built a nice home on 24 acres of timbered mountain side, backed by thousands of acres of National Forest Land. Nearest neighbors were down in the valley many acres away. The house had a large open beam living room, with great acoustics, dedicated to audio.

Would love to have that home and space back, but when you get older, man MT winters get tough.

Now retired and living in sunny AZ. I have a modest home on a couple of acres with few neighbors and managed to put together a very nice 14’x26’ audio room, so quite content for the foreseeable future.

Yeah, sometimes big is too big and when downsizing you are in fact normalizing and upgrading.

I downsized from a 3600 ft 1854 home with 14 ft ceilings on an acre.  It was just too big for 2 people and down to I dog from 3.  My new home has a much smaller listening room, but I am good with my set up.

That's a little hardcore for me.  I make do with what I have.  Being an audiophile is figuring these things out as best you can.  Not like a dog chasing its tail.

My current house was chosen for its price and location. It just happened to have an area for my system that is the best I have ever had.

 17' X 22'  plus pony walls to kitchen and hallway, that increases the open area with an additional  11' X 22'.

The lanai has two large doors opening to the main room giving some "breathing room" of an additonal 14' X 22'.

Vaulted ceilings are 15' with the peak inside the  the main room a few feet.

The lanai walls are only screen and all windows and doors in all this area are always open. (Even though it is a neighborhood, I check with the people nearest me and they say they don't here my music. Maybe they are all hard of hearing.)

I went minimal on equipment after decades of many pieces and some quite expensive, but this is the best sound I have ever had in my own home.

Still, the Big improvement, most recently accomplished, cost me nothing except my own labor moving hard and soft surfaces and changing adjustments that the speakers have built into them.

Having this hobby for 50 years, it can still be surprising what rooms and room treatment will do.

Again, this home was purchased because it was a bank foreclosure in 2010 and it was exactly the area we wanted to live.  Luck on both accounts.

Yes, and I did just that.

From being very content in a large, older building on Ft. Lauderdale beach where we were both very happy. I friend convinced me to buy a middle-road DAC and listen to some remastered Grateful Dead at 192Khz-24b....within a year I had acquired 600 watt monoblocks and then dual subs once the house and room were secured with a closing date. A ten month renovation followed and the "end-game" home surpassed my biggest dreams of the perfect listening room, less maybe some treatment panels....can't have it ALL.

I have been moving the overall dimensions of my homes footprint and room sizes around for some time, with the intention to decide if a Space is able to be incorporated solely for Audio Purposes as the design, but also have allocation for other functions within the home.

The outcome being I could get the Room Dimension Ratios that were adequate for Audio to my knowledge.

There were other requirements that then presented their own difficulties to blend in. Light requirements and the Window Apertures created layout issues.

The additional layout for the other functions to be attributed to the room, added to the complexities to keep the room optimised for Audio purposes. 

The above seemed too much of a compromise.

The homes foot print was increased to solely incorporate a space to be solely for audio, meeting all requirements I understand. The outcome being, the layout of the space within the home, becomes a space in the home that is not really attractive through the location and as a room being used within a home, with the appearance  of the finished design.

I abandoned the room within the home idea, and am now intending on producing a standalone outside of the home structure, with design to be optimised for Audio purposes, with the room also intended to be a Audio / Visual Space, as well as a outside of the home entertainment area.

For me this is win win, as the space is additional, it does not compromise the internal layout of the home and this is important when designing home renovation. , Producing a external to the home room, has plenty on offer to be found attractive. The Space will be seen as a real bonus to the property, and anybody inheriting will have a space that will be capable of being useful for numerous purposes.

As the footprint of the main home is not substantially increased, the annual charges levied against the home will also be kept to the lower side of the scale. Resulting in  approx' £500 - £700 per year at present rates is being saved. These Levies are always incrementally increasing, in a few years a £1000 a year can be saved. Over 10 Years maybe £10K-£12K can have been kept in the coffers. I would Like to think the Outside of the home room is built to being Watertight for £3K-ish.

In my part of the World, using an outdoor space generates only the cost for the structure with no further assessments to produce new levies relating to the  properties value, there are many many Mancaves in the UK, a sanctum where Wifey type comments carry very little weight. 

Maybe this is worth investigating by others who have such a desire for a dedicated Audio Space.           

I made sure the house I have now had a perfect dedicated listening space before I we bought it. 
 

A high ceiling dry big room in the basement. 
once I approved the basement then my spouse would come to look at the upstairs of the house.

when we both agreed we bought the house. 

stuartk, I see, it is more complicated. In any case, I am against slavery, to put it mildly, including being a slave of one's own wishes.

Anyway, moving to a bigger house would be quite a system upgrade. Just a bit extreme and definitely very expensive unless you move to the middle of nowhere.

@inna

Conversations about slavery in the United States frequently center on the South and the Civil War. Yet the roots of slavery in the New World go much deeper than that—back to the original British colonies, including the northernmost in New England. Although New England would later become known for its abolitionist leaders and its role in helping formerly enslaved Southern blacks and those escaping slavery, the colonies had a history of using enslaved and indentured labor to create and build their economies.

https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/new-england-colonies-use-slaves/

Regarding the main topic, if my wife and I were to move, a high priority for me would be to find a home far better suited to audio -- whether a dedicated room or a living room with fewer inherent problems. It would be nice to look forward to this but I can’t say whether it will ever happen. for now, I have to work with what I’ve got.

If I am not mistaken there was never slavery in New England. This doesn't mean there never will be. Those people from MA come to NH and buy up the whole areas. They are not welcome, you know. It started many years ago and will continue.

I bought my town-home in 2005 mainly because it is built on a slab and my 3 Thorens turntables no longer shake, rattle, and roll like they did before. Makes listening to vinyl a lot more pleasurable....no need to tip-toe through the tulips anymore. Not quite an answer to the original question on this thread, but I think everyone will see the relevance. The things we'll do for audio Nirvana......

@jonwolfpell If it's somewhere on the Cape, I would consider applying for the butler or chef position (don't ask for references)

Great question! I’m very fortunate & have a nice, modest sized house (2400 sq ft) on a nice lake in MA w/ a good sounding large living room (20’ x 25’ & cathedral ceiling peaking at 12’)  for my system.  I couldn’t be much happier but that said, if a new large house ( on a lake or the ocean for kayaking & fishing ) came w/ a butler, chef, masseuse & full maintenance crew, I’d give it serious consideration. 

Iam happy where Iam now. If  I have money to spend ? Yes I will move to a place like MikeLavigne or maybe bigger to have headroom if I decided to get bigger speakers.

YEP!

I have bragging rights to a 4’ section of the closet that is "dedicated" to my duds -- mostly themed T-shirts such as: "Real Cars Don’t Shift Themselves". Otherwise, we have a "shared" space. I do have an understanding wife who tolerates 6’-4" Alpine white custom designed/built speakers in the living room. She did pass the "I love you" test a while back when I observed that the recent installation of a sign/framed Barry Manilow musical score hanging on the wall detracted from the sound quality of the system (it was at a first reflection point) and allowed me to relocate it.

That being said, when we open the doors to the patio, a mini Amphitheater unfolds before us and those over-performing rock speakers and hidden sub strut their stuff. Plenty of space for fire pit, adequate seating, objects to hold food and drink .. and people. We enjoy inviting over people we don’t like just to watch them "fluff up" when the music starts playing. Okay, adult beverages might be a factor?

This topic reminds me of when I attended one, of many, professional conferences for AV dealers. The price of real estate was discussed. At $1,000+ per square foot in some areas, a 400 square foot "dedicated" room would cost $400k -- BEFORE you put anything in it! A quick calculation reached the result that our 15lb dog would consume about $1,200 of floor space in a prime location. Worth the price of admission, for sure.

As we approached retirement age, the harsh reality of 4th grade math came into play. Our retirement was going to be a "This -- OR -- This" existence and not so much "This -- AND -- This." Things like: 25’ motorhome towing a Fiat 500c, vs a 45’ Motorhome towing a Lamborghini (in an enclosed trailer). And, a shared listening, viewing, visiting, sharing space vs dedicated room.

This topic definitely fails in to the "good problems to have" category. Sure beats discussions about the pros and cons of prostate laser surgery.

Good topic.

I did have my dream house, and I had a dedicated living listening space we had a piano, a set of drums, electric guitars, bass guitars and amplifiers too. When I bought this stereo system I lived in a dormitory in Holland. This was built with all Adirondack Timber , it had a cathedral ceiling and 2nd floor loft suite and bath. Great acoustics, we didn't need high fidelity amplification or any sound treatments. The natural reverb was Church.

@roxy54 - thanks. As it happens, my rooms is pretty much the same size as yours - 14 x 12 x 9.5. I would love if it were two feet bigger all round, but I'm not moving house for it and, with appropriate treatment, it sounds pretty good.

What listening room size and shape do you consider best ? I guess, it should be quite big but not huge.

I did 40 years ago…and I will never move to a smaller place.

Home theater wasn’t a big deal when I moved here, but when it came into vogue, I had a prime place for it.

Hifi and home theatre are a huge part of my life, and having an amazing place to enjoy it was the primary factor in deciding on a place to live.

…check out my room on my system page.

yes I meant it as a good sign. As for Europe, I would go North. Not as far as Finland, but anywhere north of Latitude 53 to not roast in the July heats. 

Yeah, Burlington VT and surroundings, two hours from Montreal, I think. Montreal is certainly thought of as the most European city outside Europe.

Two record stores in Littleton ? Maybe it is a "hipsteria" but still a good sign overall, I suppose.

Speaking of Europe and real estate prices, you can buy small house in French countryside for not too much, and you can buy small apartment in Finnish North countryside for $25k. Average income there is lower but the prices are often lower too. American income in Europe, that's what some expatriates from the US enjoy.

@noromance  - thank you but it was also a bit selfish. We were fortunate enough to be in a position to make it happen. I had planned to retire but will now have to work a little longer - fortunately I love my job. 

I go to Littleton (Lyman, to be exact) once a year; it had gone through vast changes. The fact that they have several record stores is a big deal and a symptom of the "hipsteria". But Vermont and Maine offer great choices too, if I could I would be as close to Montreal as possible, as the best way of being and not having to be in Europe, at the same time

Not necessarily, most just want to be able to escape the world when they feel like it and then come back.

gryslibutter, I used to live in Concord NH, so, yes, I was in Littleton at least once. I took scenic drives in White Mountains from time to time.

I just have to be near NYC for now but I want to return to Northern New England, that's why I look at what is available in Vermont, Maine and New Hampshire.