Wilson Audio Haters

+1 gpgr4blu

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy so much as a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Place full page ads every month and who knows what other benefits you give the reviewers and it's easy to imagine that all the reviews turn one way.

The last time I picked up a TAS it had a review for the Wilson bookshelf and it looked and read like a glossy brochure. Multilple full-page, full-color pictures did not come cheaply.

But like anything else, buy what you like. If you like Wilson then that's the place you should spend your money.

Best,


E

Erik,

Heavy advertising is true for most of the big names in hi-fi gear - Wilson is just normal. Very few companies refuse to advertise (ATC for example). For sure if you don’t advertise in magazines then you will not be reviewed as often and sales are by word of mouth. After all the audio rags are in business to make a profit by promoting stuff. Few companies have products that are so good that they don't need to run ads and even those that don't run ads need to demo their latest products at the big Audio product shows (which is self promotion).

Advertising is no problem, because this is a free choice for each company to use or not.

But.....the problems occurs when personal benefit colours the real truth about a review. The magazines know they do it like the manufacturers who pay for it know it.

They both need to look further. I know this is not the easiest way. But I can garantee that this is the only way when you want the audio market to be healty and still interested for customers over 10 years and later.

Personal benefit is based on greed. This is short time policy and cost the least energy. There is still time to learn and do it better.

Each single person can change it when they want to. So it is up to you!

Hahahahah.

Hahahhaa.

Hahahahah.

I don't believe those magazines would exist without advertising, but to believe in such piety and purity in these days. Oh, sweet innocence. How I miss you.

Erik

I don't hate Wilson speakers, I just don't like them. They don't make their own drivers, they don't design the crossover as they hire an engineer to do it, the outside of the speaker looks like the side of a car and they sound very dry. They are also extremely over priced for a company that can't even make their own drivers. Yes, I have heard them all over the place, at shows, dealers, and before I even know what they are I'm already walking away. So much better out there for a lot less money.

^^^^^ Here's another profane and abusive post from Bo that will surely be deleted.

You are right, people don't want to see the truth. Life is all about personal needs. When it influences the people who create this forum they will delete it.

So again; what do you want to hear? The truth or the thing you would like to hear?

The great thing about audio is that the best quality is shown by the best sound. Any kind of review cannot change this.

I don't hate Wilson or any other brand. As a perfectionist and music lover I want brands to work harder and to create better quality for their clients.

Wilson could use better drivers, tweeters, materials and techniques. This will make the level of their speakers better. Even the people who don't like them now could like them at the end.

When you really want the best for the people who buy your products, you will give them more value for money. Each single person can make this decision.........when he (or she) wants to.

Bo,

It's always intriguing to see which of your personalities will post, Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde.

Dave

It is very simple; in my world audio is all about the best products in each price range and it is all about creating the best sound possible.

I love outperforming and I always want to win. 2nd best is for losers. I don't like people who have no respect for their clients. And in audio this is what you see these days a lot. 

We have done a lot of research in creating new systems and modifications. But also is working at a much higher level of precision. I can garantee that this brings audio to a level you even don't know at this moment

Now you see it as words, but soon you will know Dave that what I wrote is exactly where I was taking about. And then we will talk again.....

Bo,

It's always intriguing to see which of your personalities will post, Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde.

Dave

Yosemite Sam and Wile E. Coyote are more like it.

Hilarious.

I think a lot of people want to believe that they chose the "BEST" because of how much they spent for it and want to feel justified in the decision. People also like to complete and want to own the very best of everything. The wonderful news is that there is a ton of BEST equipment out there and we all like something just a bit different. Would be a boring world if we all liked the exact same thing. That said I think people start quoting FACTS to support their own opinions believing that their opinions = facts so that's where things usually get out of control. Hopefully we can all realize we are ALL right and just have fun with our hobby listening to music and sharing our experiences with each other.

People overhere don’t know me. It is always funny to see what systems people own. This says it all; when they would have been able to think in properties they would have known that their system is not the best combination.

I have to laugh a lot when I see the pictures, people think they understand how to create an audio system. They really don’t understand how to create it.

Because their system has been created by trial and error. This way it is a fact that their system is based on audiogambling. And again I write something you don’t want to read or believe.

There it is again:) What do you want to believe; the truth or the thing you would like to hear?

For you all audio is a hobby. For me it is a part of who I am. It is my second nature en I can proof by sound that I can see 3-4 steps further than any other person can. I can create emotion at the highest level.

You will know soon, then you may talk:)

I for one can't wait, let us know now.
.

"People over here don’t know me".....You are correct. All we know about you is what we can glean from your posts. You come across as pompous and arrogant. You remind me of so many religious types I have met in my life. They/you have found religious truth but you think YOUR way of finding truth is the ONLY way. You are intolerant and dismissive of others who have found the "truth" through different methods....or who don’t see the "truth" exactly as you define it. You would do better to sound less like a zealot preacher. You are welcome to share your opinions and tastes but once you start trying to impose them on others and denigrating others who don’t share your beliefs, you lose credibility and start to be annoying.

+1 Randy. Nicely said without being what you are telling Bo not to do. Again very nicely done.

Randy, as a religious person I see bo1972's behavior and character as being more in line with Darwinists who attempt to dictate what "reality" is based on low confidence science subject to assumptions and bias. If you would like to read more about the distinction between low confidence and high confidence evidence for Darwinism, take a look at the book The Science of Evolution by Rob Stadler. 

Like a paleontologist putting bones together bo1972 is putting some systems together and making sweeping declarations as though he has technological Truth. That is why he sounds like a zealot; he is convinced that from his observations he has Truth, so he figures he can dictate to others - purportedly for their own benefit, of course (It certainly could not be that he might benefit as a dealer!) reality as he sees it. No religious element needed just belief in his low level of "scientific" approach to audio! 

That supposed knowledge, or "Truth", of a quasi-scientific nature can make non-religious people as pompous and arrogant, dismissive of others as any religious person. 

So, there you have it, we see things quite differently, but I strongly agree with you that bo1972's intolerance of others' methods and relentless self-promotion as a dealer are offensive and uncalled for. 

Douglas,

Darwin clearly has it mostly right. However there is more to it. I can’t explain here but in essence Darwin does explain much of what we see however there are surprising things we have only recently leaned about with viruses and DNA causing DNA to jump species. The extra element goes a long way in addressing the obvious short comings of Darwin.

just like Newtons laws worked well for most cases, Einstein fleshed out the theory further. I am not sure who will be credited with new evolutionary theories that extend Darwinism but I came up with novel concepts about 40 years ago to flesh out Darwinism and so far my hypotheses have been correct!

shadorne,

Does this fantasy somehow relate to Wilson speakers?

Dave

Shadorne, as you might guess I differ in my assessment of the purported success of Darwinism. Of course, jumping DNA doesn't work when there is no DNA to work with; there is not even close to a reasonable hypothesis of how DNA got here! The jumping DNA does nothing to resolve the problem of information and Origins. It's a sideshow, a distraction from admitting the failure of the theory. 

I do not intend on drawing out my discussion of this; I respect your and Randy's positions. My primary point is as that made by dlcockrum, what does this have to do with Wilson Speakers? I find that often threads are hijacked for purposes of getting some licks in on one's ideological opponents.   

I thought if I jump into a thread entitled "Wilson Audio Haters", by page 4 it would diverge into something very weird & convoluted, and the first post I read was about Darwinism and morphing DNA, lol!! :D

@melbguy1 , shhhhhh David, this is serious stuff!!
We are publicly psychoanalyzing Bo, and his obvious personality flaws.
We are right in the middle of deciding whether his overly zealous personality more closely resembles a religious zealot or a creationist zealot.

With no more interruptions, we should have this figured out in another few pages..... ;^)

Frankly, most threads on this site have marginal usefulness in terms of practical system building. They often go off the rails, typically by someone making a religious or political derogatory comment. That diminishes the value of the discourse even more. 

jmcgrogan2, correction; deciding whether he resembles a Darwinist zealot or religious/creationist zealot.  :) 

It's time to turn my attention to important things. Blessings to all. 

jmcgrogan2, correction; deciding whether he resembles a Darwinist zealot or religious/creationist zealot.  :)

You caught me Douglas!
See, that's what happens when I post before I've had my coffee in the morning!!

Ok back to Wilson. I like the Sasha’s a lot - not that they are the best speakers in the world but they are excellent hi-end speakers.

They are are much better than B&W IMHO! Sasha’s have few faults whereas B&W make some big fundamental errors as far as I am concerned.

And as for the latest and greatest - Wilson have seen countless latest and greatest fancy ceramic beryllium stuff come and go and no doubt there will be many more soon to be "has been" speakers promoted here - meanwhile Wilson will survive!

jmcgrogan25,564 posts01-09-2017 9:27pm@melbguy1 , shhhhhh David, this is serious stuff!!
We are publicly psychoanalyzing Bo, and his obvious personality flaws.
We are right in the middle of deciding whether his overly zealous personality more closely resembles a religious zealot or a creationist zealot.

With no more interruptions, we should have this figured out in another few pages..... ;^)

"Hope is like the sun, which, as we journey toward it, casts the shadow of our burden behind us" - Samuel Smiles. The Umpire: the Creationists have it. Personally, I think Wilson has had too many puppies & should be put down!! :D
 

douglass, whew boy. upset at work or is it at home. first of all i have owned costly stereo gear in the past. meadowlark kestrals 2 , b and w's, etc. to be precise and have heard good audio. secondly i dont use the eq often, only on certain recordings and i do use a sub. my response is great down to 35 as measured with test discs. get off your horse son. i was making an observation that often posters express over the top audio faculties. if my modest set tube amp and full range drivers dont allow me to express my opinions then i guess trumpism has got to you too. obviously you are offended which in a way makes my day. cheers golden ears. fwiw, i grw up in a house with 2 grand pianos, concert harps etc. i have heard more live acoustic music in modest sized rooms than you could imagine so altho we dont all own 50K set ups we do know what music sounds like.

Veroman, you came off as arrogant, and I critically assessed your system.

To that you respond, " upset at work or is it at home," and "get off your horse son," and " I guess trumpism has got to you too."

I expect a higher quality of discussion.  Unless you can debate without derision I am finished discussing it with you.

When I saw a picture of the $650,000 speakers in Wilson's living room without an ounce of room acoustical treatment, it told me everything I needed to know.

Wilsons target consumer of a $650,000 speaker is not the hardcore audiophile---the type of person who would employ acoustical treatment in a room, but rather the "lifestyle" consumer. Guys like Fabio, whose Infinity IRS/Krell system was set-up in a room with marble floors and glass walls!

You pay 650.000 dollar for a speaker who is ugly like hell. It is time to find a new designer. 

Because these speakers are bought by people who wants to make a statement. This has nothing to do with quality. But the look is more important. 

The looks is unacceptable for this amount.

Eric (Bdp24)
Fabio does not need room treatment. His hair provides for diffusion and dampening, 

^^^ Very Funny!

I think it is time for Wilson Audio to create a new and better look. You see this as negative, but it is not.

In Europe there are many people who think they are ugly. I think when they change the design it will create a positive vibe for their sales.

The same about using better drivers and tweeters. Speakers in this price range needs to be unique in design as well. They look bulky and that is not what you would like to see for a loudspeaker in this price range.

Speaking of drivers, isn't the work done in that field by one of David Wilsons major competitors, Richard Vandersteen, impressive? Wilson drivers are merely modified versions of already available models by a couple of leading manufactures; Richard has designed his own from the ground up, and makes them himself. And then prices his products so that working-class stiffs can afford them. A down-to-Earth guy, ta boot. None of that matters if one prefers the Wilson sound to the Vandersteen, of course.

bo1972

I think it is time for Wilson Audio to create a new and better look. You see this as negative, but it is not.

In Europe there are many people who think they are ugly.

Perhaps. Obviously, Wilson customers don't agree with you or those "many people" that you cite.

You've expressed your distaste for Wilson speakers many, many times here. Why should the company try to appeal to you? You're not their customer ... or dealer!

I think Wilsons look fine. Love the sound and will be buying Alexia's The only reason I'll be selling my mint Witt II's is due to moving into the ex's 44x20x8 room. The Witt II's sound as good as the Sophias and up to WP6 then the 7's and up start to pull away in sound, and cost. I got to hear a lot of them on a nice SS system. They really sound great with tubes. JMO.

dlcockrum’s 12-24 post concerning varying degrees of imaging and depth are what I have found to be the case of my main listening room. For several years using Legacy Focus speakers with EAR 864 pre-amp, I had lost my soundstage depth. For the last three years, I reinserted an upgraded custom pre-amp with Stillpoint SS and obtained a fair amount of soundstage depth, let’s say 10 to 15 feet when recorded that way. Then I inserted Synergistic Research black fuses in my amps and duplex outlet. Whoa Nelly!! I have a huge soundstage in both width and depth depending on the recording of course. For 20 years I owned only electrostats which had great depth. When I switched to the Focus speakers, I lost most of my depth. It just took equipment and tweaks to bring it all back. I would never trade in my dynamic speakers for electrostats and my wife wouldn’t allow a Magnapan to play her rock.

My audio engineer friend Grover Huffman and I have attended three consecutive Newport Audio shows. Its interesting to note that the first thing he notices about most rooms is the lack of depth and soundstage. Sometimes, we pop in his A/C cables and ICs in a room and the room is breathing music in depth and width where there previously was a jumbled sound. Often, the smaller monitor size speakers have very superior depth and imaging to the huge/heavy speakers. Its just the way it appears to us. I haven’t heard a Wilson or Magico speaker built pre-2016 that I would own. I did hear some impressive large speakers by von Schweigert in 2015. The Harbeth 40.2 speakers were impressive although ugly. Some high end audiophiles may scorn my Focus speakers but when set up in the right system, they play music as good as any system I’ve heard at the shows I’ve attended. Its not just the speakers but the entire system and room acoustics that determine whether one can fully immerse themselves in the music.