Stop and shop supermarket has a robot that patrols the isles. It resembles a Magico speaker, fugly.
Wilson Audio Haters
I've always wondered why there are so many people out there, that more than any other speaker manufacturer, really hate the Wilson line. I own Maxx 2's and also a pair of Watt Puppys. They are IMHO quite wonderful.
Why does Wilson get so much thrashing?
429 responses Add your response
I don’t hate Wilsons, but maybe one of their dealers... 😂 Seriously though, conventional speakers with high end drivers in very heavy boxes at a serious markup. I don’t mind markups, but damn, Wilson really makes a lot of money on the badge and cabinets. So you look at these big speakers with big price tags and shake your head going "no one else could charge so much." And then you run into Gobel high end... ooooh boy. On the other hand Arion Audio, Legacy may be expensive but offer pretty high value. |
Wilsons have only sounded good to me in the instances where they were being driven by tubes. Of course it wasnt enough power but low levels sounded very good. I think that Wilsons spend too much time on certain aspects of the design while ignoring others. I dont think as a whole they are not well engineered products. I also dont like the fact that they are used by so many reviewers. Makes me think that Wilson is very good at playing the game that seems to be increasingly necessary to get positive mentions in the mags. But in the end it really doesnt mean a thing. If you like Wilsons then Wilsons it should be. |
The Wilson house sound has simply never appealed to me. Even if it did, IMHO, this line doesn't offer good value which is important to me. I have heard many different models over the decades. Although the SQ has improved over the years, it's just not for to me. That's why it's critical that you audition speakers in a decent environment before you buy. We all have different ears and different tastes. With that said, I wish any US company much success, Wilson included. It is certainly a well run company. |
the monitor audio platinum series is much much better than the Wilson anything, more three-dimensional airy spacious layering of the sound everything is much better and unfortunately the Wilsons are ugly as hell. they have not changed the look of the speakers in forever, I sure wouldn't want those ugly things in my room. |
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I've had to fix a few and they are a picky speaker too. Watt Puppies. Both times the bass sucked after someone replaced the surrounds. Both times the fix was surrounds from the right guy and then redo the work.. Sounded like they were suppose to. Wilsons are concept speakers, plain and simple. Few follow the Wilson build ideas just because of the cost. They are an eye full. Cylon for sure. |
For me personally it’s the combination of high price and the blinding, paralyzing, cancerous, caustic and ungodly level of hideousness. They truly are monstrosities that should be taken hunting and then "accidentally" shot in the face with bird shot at extremely close range. They truly are the type of speakers that you have to listen to with your eyes closed, not because you are taken away into another dimension by their sound quality but merely to avoid going blind. These are the type of speakers that you love with the lights off. Sure there are many "ugly" speakers out there, but Wilson audio the are champions with complete dominance over the category. |
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He is just rationalizing. Typical biased opinions. They bad mouth a product and refuse to admit they have never taken the time to listen to it. Not even once as it might change their extreme prejudices against that product. I know a few people that can't admit when you are wrong or being plain stubborn. The funny thing is I used to visit my friend Brooks Berdan's store and could listen to Wilson's anytime I cared to listen. I even "bad mouthed" the Watt Puppy's in front of him once when I owned Martin Logan Odyssey electrostatic speakers. I will admit a lot of it was because I couldn't afford them at that time. After getting divorced fast forward and I listened to them again and was impressed this time. I sold the Martin Logans and used the WP7's for about 7 years. I then moved up to the Maxx 3 speakers. I have been happy ever since. |
When shopping for speakers, I had a budget of $15k. I auditioned a number of good, well know brands (not all) including Wilson, B&W, Magnepan, Golden Ear, Martin Logan, Focal, Sonus Faber and others. None of them satisfied me and was a big enough step up from the Sonus Fabers I had already owned. The Sasha 2 immediately caused me to double my budget and to my ears, nothing else would do without blowing the budget even more. It does not mean I felt the other speakers were junk and their owners have bad taste. They just did not stir me enough to motivate a purchase. As far as build quality of Wilson cabinets, it is obvious that few surpass. Detail and involvement are also hard to beat in many but not all of their price points. Yeah, they may not have the latest "state of the art fad driver" but most of the speakers are very well integrated and you are either a fan or not of the Wilson sound and looks. Most who are, love the speakers and move up the line or stay put. If you have not heard the speakers, (like Jon) how can you pontificate with authority? As with any product, taste is a personal preference. There is no best.Who cares what others think of the sound, cost, esthetics, design or what they surmise what they will sound like without hearing or owning them? Does denigrating another’s choice validate our own or make you feel better in the slightest way? If it does, I am sorry for you. Medications and therapists may help with self esteem issues. Humans are so... predictable...and sometimes ignorant. |
The thread is "Wilson Audio Haters." If you're offended by criticism of Wilson products and you're here it's because you want to be offended. You should be thanking me. Conspicuous consumption isn't what I'm in it for. I agree that the hobby is full of it. I look for the best performance for the money. I don't care what electronics look like at all. Speakers matter some because they need to be able to be in a living space without being a big eyesore. To me there's just a bare minimum for speakers. I've never made a decision based off of looks, though. |
My comment is what I think of the brand. Of course those who are emotionally involved with Wilson will always claim I'm critical because I can't afford them. I couldn't care less. That's the response that fans of preposterously overpriced products will always have. A local dealer sells Wilson and I've been in a room with them a number of times but I never asked to listen to them. They're all the things I avoid. Ported, with a reputation for bloated bass. Big midrange with a reputation for difficult placement. Expensive aesthetics that are not to my taste. There's just nothing about them that interests me. |
4425, I've read jon5912's comments and they don't tell me anything about his financial status. Why can't individuals have an opinion about components without "some" of us resorting to personal attacks. When I had Sasha 1's my friend said, "they looked liked garbage cans" and he hated them. He could afford them, he just had different taste and it didn't bother me. |
i usually don’t respond to foolish comments in the forums but jon5912 gets an award for one of the worst I’ve seen in a while. He’s not a Wilson hater but rambles on about how loony their designs are while expressing himself to be a man of superior aesthetic sensibilities. Two things are obvious. He can’t afford them and he either hasn’t heard them all or doesn’t understand that the sum of all parts is what matters. I own a pair of Yvette’s that I find pleasing to look at while admiring their top shelf build. I am mesmerized daily by their extraordinary musicality. I can’t speak to any other Wilson product but I’ve never considered the Yvette a product for people ‘with really bad taste’. Your post sir, was in really bad taste and smells of class envy. |
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I'm not a Wilson hater but I've always thought they were conspicuous consumption for people with really bad taste. I avoid large midranges because they are directional at higher frequencies and are overly placement sensitive. The 7" midrange in a 3+ way speaker is loony in my opinion. It's bound to be a pain to get those things sounding right in a room. I'll take the 3" dome on my ATCs or the 4" coax on my Thiels any day. Both are also built by the company that makes the speakers rather than just bought from some other driver manufacturer. |
Well, I agree with a lot of things said here, even with some of the high-level philosophy of the One and Only God of Audio (OOGA). But a quick fact check showed that the word of the OOGA is to be trusted less than the word of a car salesman. Nothing wrong with car salesmen but they are on the bottom of my trust list. I don’t want to use a dealer or an audio consultant even if he is the OOGA if he cannot be trusted. I don’t want to have anything to do with people who lie. All these promises and claims and at the end of 2017 - nothing! Since it is the end of the year, he would probably start saying the same things about 2018 now. Some people like tweaking their systems. It’s their hobby. If you take this away from them (by putting the “perfect” components), they may even stop listening to music. Other people like to listen to music and don’t fiddle with their system. Yes, it would be nice to have objective measurements, but claiming that whatever that measurement shows would be better than your personal taste, and there is no such thing as personal taste anymore is a bunch of BS. It’s also a bunch of BS claiming to be the only person on the planet who can do something better than everyone else. It’s a bunch of BS to say that the sound in your shop is much better than any other shop in the world. Only mentally sick people do such claims. But I guess I am not saying anything new here. Sorry for lighting up the fire again. I am not planning to spend any more time on this topic. |
@vassils Agree about the wild claims by Bo. However, there are many here who claim to hear the horns of Valhalla with all manner of ridiculous tweaks. Many claim that audio equipment does NOT work properly until you find the “right” matching cable or “right” fuse or power cord and that the only way to get it close to right is to keep swapping out cables randomly until something takes your fancy. Of course, you can never get the set up completely right as the permutations are endless - so apparently you are just to keep on tweaking forever. The fact that equipment is supposed to be designed to work properly with any suitable cable or fuse and should be expected to work properly if equipment is of high enough quality; these facts are somehow lost on these folks. This allows the virtues to be lauded of all manner of finicky and completely unreliable gear. |
Someone else said: "The more popular the brand, the more fans and the more detractors." I couldn't agree more. I do "feel your pain" as I own a McIntosh preamp and power amp, match up very well with my other equipment. There are probably more "McIntosh haters" out there, compared with "Wilson haters". I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla...... |
I just happened to run across this thread on December 31st, 2017. I spent almost an hour reading most of the comments, especially those from the Holy One of Bo. I don’t know why I read most of the 70 posts from Bo1972 as he kept saying the same thing over and over and over and over again... and over. There was a bunch of promises of things that would happen in 2017, such as: “You have no idea what we created and what we do. Most things we will never post or share. I can garantee you that it will change the world in audio in 2017.” “2017 will be the year we share it with manufacturers and customers. We have done it with many people all ready. But now we will make it public as well. “ “We will invite many people in 2017. Everyone is welcome in our world. We will never disclude any person. We create it to make other people want to buy more audio. “ “The difference where we are compared to the rest is galaxies away. 2017 will be the year we will share it, soon you will hear from it as I told before.” Some statistics of his posts: The word “garantee” was misspelled 14 times. “True-Fi” was written 59 times. The word “proof” was found 25 times in his post. In search of his proofs, “garantees”, and to check his statements about 2017, I did some Google searches. A Google search of "Statement Audio Pro-measurement” returned 4 results. Perhaps Google stopped working today, and Tru-Fi is taking over?!? "Stealth Low Frequency" returned 10 results, most of which were related to missile defense and guns. But again, let’s not forget that Tru-Fi might be taking over the Internet, and Google might not be so effective while transitioning their data to Bo. He said: “We own Sony Professional video stuff, so we will make videos soon.” in one of his posts. Good to know he owns at least one decent piece of audio-video equipment. He also said: “In 2017 we will start a videoblog as well.”. I am still looking for those. Please point me to them if you see them. Not that I want to watch them, just curious if they exist. So after I read all that crap (btw I was interested in the topic of this post but the thread was hijacked a long time ago), I decided to check what Bo1972 is posting these days. I found one of his latest topics here - https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-audioquest-hurricane-part-1 In one of his posts there he said: "When I look for example at Facebook for Highend For Passionates. I can see many faults at almost each single photo...." "When I see the pictures of loudspeakers of 200.000 dollar and the way they place them, it is the proof that it is done at the level of a child." The reminded me of something I just read here: Plutos: “I got a good laugh when I saw your system set up so "proffesionally". All nicely lined up against the wall.“ bo1972: “@plutos ........hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha lol :) You life in the past and we live in the future. When you audition S.A.P. you will understand that it does not makes sense anymore where they stand. “ That's enough for me. Wasted enough time. |
I will ask once more...What is the connection between the "emotional" reproduction of music, and that reproduction being perceived as "3D". I would submit that timing, timbre and dynamics have everything to do with the communication of emotions in music, and the perception of space is a distant fourth. |
@clearthink = @bo1972 = Bobby Kingma Note how Clearthink chimes in on this thread and stated: Quote: With your permission, if I may, please kindly allow me to elucidate these matters regarding Bo, who is a visionary and trailblazer in the world of hi-fi. How, you may ask, do I have anything to contribute to this detailed discussion? I am a client of Bo. By client I mean that I am not a customer. It is much the same as when you visit a physician or a lawyer. The wise man does not instruct the professional how to treat his ills! He entrusts the outcome with the professional of his choosing. Otherwise a man could treat or represent himself. Music is all about emotion. When I felt that my music reproduction system and associated components and installation was failing to deliver proper emotion to me I decided to seek Bo for consultation. Bo was very generous with his time! He showed me how Tru-Fi works. It can be demonstrated to every listener that Tru-Fi works by applying properties to the reproduction of music. By proper application of these properties, which sometimes requires adjustments to within .5 mm, Tru-Fi can be achieved and all will agree that this is how hi-fi should be sold. Not all components are capable of Tru-Fi. Because Bo has a photographic memory as applied to sound reproduction, Bo can identify those components that deliver 3D sound! Most components deliver only 1D or 2D sound! This Bo can demonstrate. Bo can evaluate your 1D or 2D music reproduction system and prescribe a solution using components that are 3D and can deliver Tru-Fi. These are improvements all can hear because music is about emotion and all can feel the emotion in reproduced music once Bo has demonstrated Tru-Fi to you. He can do this in a shootout as he has done many times and proven to all who listen. Throughout the course of Human History visionaries and trailblazers have been laughed at, minimalized, derided, ridiculed and chided. Bo knows this! He is being generous by contributing here to share his knowledge about Tru-Fi and the way it can be applied using properties to music reproduction systems and installations. He has demonstrated to many manufacturers, distributors and designers of components used in music reproduction systems the ways of Tru-Fi and properties and I suspect that you will see some major manufacturers adopt Tru-Fi methods, techniques, standards and practices as time moves forward. This is because all who hear Tru-Fi exclaim for the first time they are hearing the emotion in music, which is what music is all about. Those of you here who are dubious about Bo have never heard Tru-Fi and have not heard 3D sound in their music reproduction systems. Once you have heard Tru-Fi, you will realize that all other approaches to the design, assembly, fabrication, installation and specifying of music reproduction systems is flawed. Only Tru-Fi can deliver the emotion in music, which is what music is all about. There is no point to music reproduction systems if there is no emotion. I hope Bo will forgive me speaking on his behalf here. Unquote It is time for Bobby to create another user account to be a shill for TruFi as his Clearthink account has been revealed to be him!!!! |
Kosst_amojan - I couldn’t agree more. The room is one of the biggest challenges in audio. It’s hard enough assembling a system that plays well together. But getting the placement and room acoustics right is like naked blindfolded voodoo. And not in the good way I know you all first pictured. Experimentation and research definitely pay dividends! |
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Thought this was as good a place as any to post this...lol My experience with Wilson Last week I bought a used pair of Wilson Witt mk1 ( yes the cheapest Wilsons you can get, gotta start somewhere!) After spending about 60 minutes or so working on placement, although they ended up very close to previous Focal 826v placement, I sat down for some critical listening impressions. 4 hours later I was still there, with the grin getting wider possibly in direct relation to the increasing volume I was trying. Definitely my ears gave up before the Wilsons did! Very very solid powerful controlled bass, great soundstage and vocals. BUT......they definitely do not suffer poor source material to wit.... Was playing Tidal and 2 albums back to back exemplified this point. 1/ remastered version of Crime of the Century by Supertramp.... absolutely in heaven, the piano on the title track was just ethereal in nature and i could find no fault with any song on the album or its replay. 2/ Pollinator by Blondie....oh good lord, WHOEVER mixed this new album should have been taken out and shot! What I would describe as disco bass, overblown boom, boom, boom blah! And as for the higher registers? I thought the tweeters had blown! cymbals were just all tizzy and splashy, truly awful, could only manage a coupel of tracks before had to turn that off. Quality electronics and quality source paired with Wilsons and you should be in heaven. Anything less and they will ruthlessly annihilate your music! |
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Independent of Audio hobby, in this society there is a population of people who clearly are motivated by severe, diabolical hate and not by mere disagreement. Their hate is now yielded damage. Perhaps TV, Hollywood actors and social media are espousing and manipulating such bizarre behavior. In any rate, they are definitely exhibiting and motivated by raw HATE. 'Nuff said. |
Skytop, I believe that the word "hate" is used far too often to describe what is more accurately disagreement or difference of opinion. In the current environment any opposing perspective is so quickly (and easily) deemed to be hate (ful). I don't consider the result of the recent presendential election "tragic" and certainly not a sign or affirmation of hate. Quite the contrary in my opinion. We have a very different perspective, I don't hate you. In regard to the thread topic, people can dislike Wilson and express this in some cases with passion. It's over the top to refer to this as hate. Charles |
I unfortunately see a lots of propensity for hate in this country. There just seems to be no lack of people flowing with hate through their veins. Look at the result of the past election. Tragic! The very high end expensive speakers engender a large amount of hateful post and badmouthing due to what appears to be due to envy and invidia. I wonder if this is universal in other countries as it is in the U.S. Hate is ugly in all forms. |
I have continuously owned Wilson Audio Speakers over the past 15 years, I'm currently on my 5th pair (Sasha 2) and have been very happy with the performance and quality of the excellent products offered by this outstanding American Company. Unfortunately, far too many posted opinions are from Members that have admittedly never owned, or even seen a pair of Wilson Audio Speakers, yet will freely post negative views on their products. Prospective Buyers soliciting advice on Wilson Audio Speakers should do so from current and previous Owners, imo. |
jmcgrogan25,689 posts02-18-2017 11:57amHahaha!If a man is standing in the corner muttering to himself, do you engage him or walk away? |
The Watt/Puppies image like 3D. Most people don't like flat FR response, although they think they do. Wilson spks are not set and forget; they must be set up right. Room acoustics and cables should be optimized with a set of ears which can hear. Not for low quality source material, but gets it with the high end crowd. |
