Many of you ask others to advise you, but the answer to so many questions is system dependent. Why don’t you post your system on your profile prior to requesting help?
Some brands names and some price tags for sure indicated something in the quality design scale ...
But when i look at virtual system, which is very rare , i look more at the room than at the pieces brand names...😊
What someone can say about my actual system sound quality , now headphone based for reason of space in a smaller house, looking at my Sansui Alpha , My low cost battery/bank Hidizs dac and my Headphone AKG K 340 ? NOTHING...😊
He cannot understand nor see all my optimizations and modifications to the audio system parts..
Worst , i did not need an acoustic room , then he cannot disparage as ridiculous my acoustic room now with his ignorant sarcasms as some did ...😊
If you want to know if someone had a good sound , look at his room first, next read his posts to measure his satisfaction level versus his upgrading urgency rthytm , learn if he is obsessed by price tag, and draw a conclusion...
Or be a jerk as the seller who ridicule my peanuts cost dedicated acoustic room and audio component because it was more easy to ridicule my system than to answer my objections about the artificial sound of his main costly room tweak with an artificial soundfield so evident we can hear it through youtube... Acoustic cannot be bought with a costly tweak...
i never bought tweaks , i created the one i used , and i dont need upgrade now more than ever...Even if some upgrade could be possible for me for sure at twenty time the cost of my actual system ..
is it possible to hear top hi-fi at under 1000 bucks for a system ? Yes... It ask for serious work and experiments but it is possible...I did it...
And sometimes miracles happen... I own one of the best designed headphone ever now... To beat it you need an acoustic room and very refined components...
How do i know ?
it is because i know how to define 4 elements in the soundfield after my experiments in my room, most reviewers identify only two of them clearly in their reviews, and this indicated something about their acoustic experience 😊 ...
Four soundfield characteristics as experienced in a good system ( i dont put the timbre experience as one of the soundfield characteristics , because it is so basic , it must be First and LAST criteria.. :
---imaging differentiation between sound sources
---Soundstaging three dimensions VARYING sizes because it MUST BE recording dependant and contain all sound sources together...It must not be fixed once for all...
---the Holographicvolume of EACH sound source in his own space, it is called holographic because it is 3-D
---Immersivenes : acoustically defined as the balanced ratio between the sound sources holographic volume dimensions and the listener envelopment, or the way a listener is included in the "extent" soundfield which is represented by this abbreviatons ratio in acoustic ASW/LV ... To do this someone must control reflective surface/absorbing/diffusive one ratios and the timing of all reflective surfaces, some are useful other destructives.. The dimension of the room and his geometry, topology and content is the start point, the timing of the waves the end point... The pressure distribution zones of the sound must be tamed..I used Helmholtz resonators tuned mechanically to do so ...
Then why judging people on some esthetical images and brand names ?
The room acoustic controls , the owner satisfaction as a sign of experience , and the poster explanations are my three indications... For sure some marvellous dedicated room say it all.. the sound must be good... But trust me, an image is not enough at all, the 4 characteristics of a soundfield cannot be evaluated without listenings...
By the way if i had plenty of money my dedicated room would had been very esthetical not a mess.. But i am proud of my soundfield at the end not of the look...
Never judge people on appearance.. never judge system by prices or esthetic...
Judge them by their arguments, and experience and knowledge...
The OP raises a good question and I personally have been on this site for almost 24 years now I guess I never felt a need. Things have changed since my early days here and everything certainly has changed since then. It seems to me that everything now is open game to be discussed in the public domain whether it is personal or private in nature. I have never subscribed to using any public forum outside of Audiogon, to vet any personal or private material and will remain that way. With that said, some of the reasons I have not gone down the OP's request is that I do not know how, and also for privacy reasons as I have noted. Some of these systems can and do cost a lot of money and I would think that some may have a general reluctance to post photo's due to insurance and also security reasons. Also, some may have decided not to post due to the fear of some unscrupulous people in this world who have bad intentions.
Based on your security concerns, I’m assuming that a member’s address is stored on Audigon servers should they buy, or sell.
I don’t believe that such information is stored for those that only use the forum. So, for these members there shouldn’t be any security concerns unless they post something that gives away their address. Is this a correct understanding?
The only other possible way to locate a member would be geo data on uploaded photos, but I question if this information can be determined via the virtual system photos and such data can be stripped from photo prior to uploading. Again, I don’t know if this is a correct understanding.
I have a wonderful photo of my listening room that I will not post for reasons of the privacy of the people in the picture. It is of my then-teenage daughter and 20 or so of her friends, enjoying soft drinks, snacks they made themselves in our kitchen, all while sitting around taking turns playing Guitar Hero on the projection TV. A rare few would try a go at the multi-keyboard organ next to the TV, where they could use the built-in recorder to save a copy of whatever they chose to play at the moment. On the other side of the room another inspired soul would occasionally bang out whatever on the piano. Somewhat discordant chaos, but almost always fun. Enjoyment was the purpose of that room.
For my own use, on evenings when the mob was away at a game, I would occasionally tinker in the bowels of my component rack, which was a 10’ wide series of open back bookcases against a wall that had 4 doors opening behind the bookcases, opening into our garage so I could easily get to the back side of the components to re-wire as necessary. This was an entertainment system, emphasizing versatility over perfection, and even now I still enjoy everything from 78’s to open reel, and even the lowly cassette, which my Nak Dragon manages to do a decent job of copying whatever is on my Dual Golden 1 turntable so I can enjoy it in the car. Crown and Marantz amps tried desperately to drive Bose 901 series 1’s backed by some floor-standing Infinity speakers to a level that could be heard over the crowd on some days, while, when I was able to enjoy a moments’ peace, I preferred to enjoy some chamber music from the vantage point of what was left of my favorite chair.
Was I IMPRESSED by the sound? Occasionally. Was everyone PLEASED by their experiences in that room? On most occasions, I think so. I was able to tinker, tweak and relax. Either way, I got to ENJOY the time I spent there, and I think that is the point. Some folks enjoy showing off what they have, others enjoy sharing an aural experience, others just want to close their eyes and feel the recreation of an idea that became the music in their ears.
I also enjoy the experience of reading and seeing how others maximize their personal enjoyment of sound. Since no two individuals will ever identically perceive a moment in time, the sharing on this forum is a source of guidance on what works well for at least one person, and may be of value to others of similar tastes and perceptive abilities. The settings that work best for me will drive my wife out of the room, as she has totally different hearing than I do. I have imperfect ears, and thus “perfectly accurate fidelity” sounds nice, but sometimes no better to me now than a cell phone across the room. 60 years ago, when I got my first multi-track reel-to-reel deck, things were different on so many levels. That does NOT mean I cannot appreciate and enjoy a truly fine system in a carefully set up listening space, but I will not experience anything similar to what you do. We will both enjoy it in our own way.
I would like to thank all those who offer to explain what and why the elements that make up their entertainment space sound the way they do. Some love sound. Some love the chase of “perfection”, but unlike the dog who succeeded when they tried to catch the car, none of us will ever get there, but it can still be fun to just enjoy sharing the thrill of the chase…
In my case I haven't posted my system largely because of inertia and a little embarrassment. I have looked at several member's system and I appreciate that they took the time to photograph and detail them.
I have 4 racks of components and my cable management is terrible. My system looks messy and I envy those of you who have compact neat systems. I also have no room treatment but my room has a lot of absorption and diffusion and my system sounds pretty darn good.
I'm presently undergoing a major upgrade of my digital components and when I replace several pieces with the new ones I will tidy things up and post my system. My guess is that I probably have more stuff (multiple sound processors, CD players, DACs, transports, equalizers, R2R and cassette decks, etc.) than most Agon forum users so my system is unusual in that regard and may be of some interest.
@vonhelmholtz Great post. Be it a boom box or a 200 K++ system/room as the heart of all these discussions revolves around equipment used for the joy of music some images or at least some verbiage would help authenticate the user.
How many of us after reading someone’s post check out their details and check their system(s)? I often do.
The whole anonymous user thing has pluses and minuses. If I had to say who I was and where I was (Anytown USA, FYI) that might reduce a lot of snark but maybe for some be a worry about robbers or adoring fans?
I’m so appreciative of the kindness and guidance from some here that the dummies edicts matter not.
And on the sales side after learning on the forum side the whole Agone allowed me to purchase most of my equipment as new at tremendous savings. ( That’s what I tell my wife…..works for me. Not!)
I don’t do Farcebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. though I’m registered on some of them just for the purpose of reading and gathering information. I’ve recently had my personal info hacked through a 3rd party business interest with my retirement fund and have to now use Experian to monitor my accounts (a free service due to the hack).
I’ve always been wary of public sharing sites no matter how innocuous and have been proven correct in that assessment. One of my sisters created a Farcebook account for me (having my personal info) which I never used and when I had my account hacked and taken over by some crooks in Poland, I finally closed out the account.
There have been bots on this site vying for info. That should set off some alarm bells. On the matter of "proudly posting my system for legitimacies sake", get a life. I’ve already posted shots of it in a few posts anyway for illustrative purposes in a few threads and that’s enough for me.
Pride of ownership is one thing but flying your flag reeks of needing attention and/or exclusivity, as if that makes you more serious than the next guy.
Well, you have to be smart enough to know what personal information to post and which one to not post. Also make sure that passwords are super strong. That is the main reason accounts get hacked, and not because of personal info. Your personal information is available on public domain. Do a check yourself.
Use something like PasswordSafe to store your passwords for different sites. But make sure that the Master password to PasswordSafe is at least 15 to 20 characters long with upper, lower case, special characters and numbers. PasswordSafe can also generate passwords for you that you don’t have to remember. Just double click when in the app and paste it in the site. When you exit out of the PasswordSafe, that password is not in memory anymore.
Well, you have to be smart enough to know what personal information to post and which one to not post. Also make sure that passwords are super strong. That is the main reason accounts get hacked, and not because of personal info. Your personal information is available on public domain. Do a check yourself.
Duh. I do. As I said, it was a 3rd party business partner of my retirement fund that was hacked, which means not me personally. As for PasswordSafe or something like it, that was already recommended after the hack and I'm looking into them. My iMac automatically asks for stronger passwords and applies them to any and all sites that require one. With my new iMac, it's all done by fingerprint identification as well.
For anyone who thinks this is paranoia, I get a weekly tally from Safari that tells me how many attempts have been made to profile me and I watch the counter go up to the mid hundreds by weeks end, only to start all over the next week. It's a nice feature to have and a daily reminder that we're not in Kansas anymore.
...and Kansas is likely po’d from being used as a point of negative reference after all this time....but, agreed....
The %adge of e/m and phone calls I receive daily that get dumped into the spam bucket or ignored seems to indicate hiring a Dutch dyke with big digits....
@wolf_garcia....*G* ...nobody wants my style....no one with any obvious rationality, anyway....but, point made & taken.... ;)
Just added one in virtual systems. My room is a mess and I’m not sure that I got the speakers in there so I will redo it after I clean it.
So the next thing I think we should be required to add is our Audiograms and/or hearing aid equipment. My ability to hear speech has really deteriorated, especially in loud restaurants. I still think I can hear music unimpeded, but I know that I am fooling myself. I can definitely hear my wife snoring
I posted my acoustic room images, which was a homemade mess, only in the beginning state , not with the one hundred resonators, to motivate experimentation for those who can use a dedicated room...I mostly attracted sarcasms... My thin is thick but my temper is not ... i answered 😁
Now no problem with anyone, i borrowed images of my three components , anyway i dont have an acoustic room, one top headphone can do the job happily and surprizingly for me ......And i dont judge people on appearance... I dont mind photo of their room , anyway what interest me in a room is his acoustic content not the price tag and luminous dials of shiny components... 😊
And malher 123 perhaps you sense a slight lost in hearing with age as we will perceive most of us one day with ourself but you had kept your musical understanding at a very high level , and thats all that matter to us...Imagine the reverse ? 😁😉😊
«My hearing is perfect, i hear my wife snoring even when she dont snore»---Groucho Marx 🤓
Just added one in virtual systems. My room is a mess and I’m not sure that I got the speakers in there so I will redo it after I clean it.
So the next thing I think we should be required to add is our Audiograms and/or hearing aid equipment. My ability to hear speech has really deteriorated, especially in loud restaurants. I still think I can hear music unimpeded, but I know that I am fooling myself. I can definitely hear my wife snoring
managing our manifold interactions with information, how we access it, how we screen it for veracity, how we choose to disseminate it, is a very key part of living successfully and safely in this world we are in
this includes figuring out, among the ocean of info coming at us (not to mention what info we seek out) from a variety of sources, what is b-s and what can be relied on? -- one can even say this has become an essential survival skill
this also includes being thoughtful about, and having insight into, how the various levels of bad guys might prey on our info, and thus what info about ourselves to put and not to put out there
all this having been said, on a site like this, looking at who is posting, what info they provide about themselves, aids a reader in assessing the ’for real’ vs ’faker’ vs ’pretender’ quotient of the poster -- the system page is but one resource, though often a useful one, in that determination, along with other user info that can been seen with a few clicks of the username (also very important is to look through the record of past posts by the same username) -- my own feeling is that one an enthusiast forum such as this where advice is sought and given, it aids the community by making users more accountable, clarifying their experience level, noting if commercial interests are at stake
just remember, as we see many times daily in tv, cable, internet media, other forms of ’press’ and/or individual ’publishing’ via social media, what people put out there for us to see, is usually to help themselves much more than to help us-- ’’ it sounds like you are saying this to help me, to inform me, as a service to me, but what do you have to gain when i take your bait, click your click???...’’ -- is a key question to always bear in mind in this highly polluted information age we exist in
The first rule to impress woman is to never ever spoke about sound qualities in audio...
This very masculine recognition function about high quality sound all across the spectrum is perceived as a feminine characteristic , because woman are naturally very sensitve to high pitch sounds (babies)...
Then eric_squires is right... 😊
«Someday i will change my wife for a better speaker, but i am afraid that she will throw me off for a better microphone soon »--Groucho Marx 🤓
I've been on Audiogon for 22 years. I immediately posted my system when I joined....and I immediately got a lot of comments. I got a ton of suggestions about amps, speakers, preamps and just about everything else....all of it was constructive criticisms that went a long way towards helping me build a decent system. Some of the advice I didn't take because I didn't agree with....but overall, the the comments were very helpful, and I appreciate it. When I began here 22 years ago, I didn't know diddly squat about hifi.....I've learned a lot along the way and I'm grateful to the members here that helped me in my hifi journey. I've bought and sold countless amounts of amps, preamps, speakers and sources over my two decades here...the ride to arrive where I am today was a wild one! Sadly, it seems the overwhelming majority of the people that were here when I started are no longer active...some have passed away. I'm 70 years old and still swingin...
@mahler123...I'm down with you, 5x5 on that....get some good aids for the speech...and then...shut them off whenever...;) *L*
('Phones on now, adjusted to compensate for what's missing...blissful ignore-ance.)
@erik_squires....Keep your secrets....I only had to succeed once, and it's lasted for as long as it has, and will likely run to the run-out.....*middle distance sighting*s*
...if one refers to their posted system, if curio overcomes, I look.
There's the grand, the 'rough average'...and like @wolf_garcia *G*hi sign*, there's mine....well, all of 'what it iz', which TTTT, only needs to fulfill mine.
An open door you're welcome to cast a shadow next to, a host with some obvious and not so prefs and predilections...
My teenage daughters use the same strategies. It might be helpful for those that can’t figure things out to use a device with a large screen and follow the instructions given on the first page of this thread.
As others have expressed, I found the tool on this site much less intuitive than on the Asylum, for example. But I finally had a breakthrough yesterday. Thanks for the kick in the pants.
That blue TT looks like art and the vintage system looks really stylish.
Have you given any thought to those windows behind the big rig? If you look at my system you'll see how I was able to "treat" a problem window in my room without blocking the light :).
Thanks. Re windows, we’ve always been surprised how good the room sounds in spite of the windows. Indeed, even the dealer who delivered them originally was surprised how good the sound is. And while I suspect some additional treatment would further enhance the sound, this is our sunroom, where my wife and I spend alot of time together, and we’ve never wanted window treatment in this room - we have a wooded acre that the room looks out on -it’s our zen place. So, that’s a compromise I’m definitely willing to make. Of course, the space for the vintage system is really perfect for listening - I have an acoustic ceiling down there - will post another picture - so I’ve got choices!
By the way we cannot judge a system by the "virtual system" image...
At all.... Save evident TOP of the world system as mike lavigne ...
Because i am hot temper i gave only images of my components now, not of my embeddings devices and modifications...Idiots were like flies over me with sarcasms... Answering all was tedious.. 😊
Anyway to judge a system we must listen the strucked cymbals attack , sustain, decay time...
We must hear the rise and sustain and decay of tonal timbre microplaying of an instrument , his varying texturing spectral envelope through the time envelope ..
We must listen piano note transients sustain and decay and the way the bass note reverberate and his sustained decay ... Each piano note must strike as a rifle bullet in slow motion aimed at our heart..
And we must feel the big turkisch drum halo of bass sound coming through our body... ( it is so with my headphone by the way.)..
We must locate the microphones position from the recording trade-off and then sense the location and not only the direction of sound sources...
Do you think you will see this on a photo of my 700 bucks system ?
i almost never look at the member system photos..
The only interesting detail for me anyway is the room acoustic...
By the way we cannot judge a system by the "virtual system" image...
Exactly.
The last time I posted my system online in a discussion here, some idiot who disagreed with something PM'd me about how my system couldn't possibly do what I said and that my listening position was X° off just by looking at my photos and couldn't possibly recreate the soundstage as I described it. He even "knew" the distance I sat at from the plane of the speakers without any showing of just where I sat. Must have been one of those remote viewers the military employed back in the day.
I read him the riot act in the thread. He never bothered me again. Do I want to go through that again with some know-it-all? Or join some exclusive club? Heck no.
If some here want to limit their discussions only to those who post their systems online, do me (us) a favor and use the camera emoji at the start and end of your post, alerting those who've done the same that only they will be responded to and taken seriously and the rest of us can bother not responding, wasting our time in the process.
All the best (you have to trust me on that one...no pictures),
Nonoise
I second the proposal... it will be comical to see ... 😊
If some here want to limit their discussions only to those who post their systems online, do me (us) a favor and use the camera emoji at the start and end of your post, alerting those who’ve done the same that only they will be responded to and taken seriously and the rest of us can bother not responding, wasting our time in the process.
You have got a great eye, nice shots. My favorite is when you popped the top and displayed the circuits of one of your amps, great idea. My second favorite was the one with the wine glass in it. Great job on your rooms and your system page.
@sgreg1+1 No cell phone either. Don't care. But it is fun sometimes to see what others have. I think many engage only as far as willing. The hobby consumes a fraction of my whole, listening a larger portion.
Agree that many talk about equipment conquests they've imagined. But then is that not normal of people to pontificate beyond their actual scope of experience?
that said, my takeaway would have been that you should have left your system info up, let the jerk who gave you grief pound sand -- makes no sense to me to let one negative nelly troll affect the legit contributions of long time folks here
one sidebar note here... as an example, you can click @nonoiseand even though there is no system listed, you can click ’marketplace feedback’ and see plenty of that (and all positive feedback to boot) accumulated over the years... so you know this person is for real
I got my system pics all over on other audio sites, I don't need it here.
These kind of comments are what diminish the value of this site: "Acoustic and psycho-acoustic experiments are the heart of audio not the esthetical living room with impressive gear components , generally costly we can see..", "For example i discovered in my experiments 4 aspects of the soundfield, all reviewers know only two... And they can afford the best gear ever... Why ?".
My reply to comment 1 is: you can have both and the people I know have both. I have built 5 dedicated listening rooms in 5 different custom homes with acoustics, golden ratios, and power requirements in mind before driving the 1st nail.
Comment 2: how do you know others haven't discovered more than 2?
I'm a part timer here as well mainly because of some of the posts like the 2 above and others wanting to know what is the best sounding speaker. Of course the post will receive tens/hundreds of replies all indicating that their speakers are the best which more confuses the OP.
For example, What a more high end site would be discussing are the values of: diffusers at reflection points vs. traps; what sq differences did someone hear when using X speaker positioning method over another; sq differences between i2s vs ethernet vs XX; sq differences between using a preamp vs no preamp; sq differences using a standard network switch vs an audio network switch. More personal evaluations on what they heard when doing their own evaluations on exxperimenting. Everybody experiments in this hobby, some of us build new audio rooms, some of us buy new equipment, and some move their speakers 1/2 in any direction trying to find the best sq.
We can read a post in two ways: for the positive content or intent or to confirm our own bias or to whine for the sake of it ...
The focus main point and the most important fact in audio hobby circle around acoustic and psycho-acoustic more than gear engineering which come in second...
This is a FACT... Psycho-acoustic science rule design not the reverse...
Prove me wrong instead of whining against my post...
Second You ask why i know it is not so common to know that MOST people dont know about the 4 components of a soundfield ?
Simple ; if you are of good faith look for reviews, more than one, where it is CLEARLY suggested that there is not only imaging and soundstage but also holographic volume of each sound sources and immersiveness as defined by the ratio and timing between the sound sources dimensions and the listener position...GIVE ME CLEAR EXAMPLE...
Knowing concretely something is also being able to create it and control it...I discovered these 4 aspects in my own room axcoustic experiments..
I dont remember reading a review where there is much more than Timbre experience, the most basic factor and two of the soundfield factors not four CLEARLY described ...FIND ME ONE WHICH IS EXPLICITLY SAID THAT THERE IS NOT TWO... Among all thousands reviews on the net probably only very very few mention these 4 aspects... Reviewers focus on the GEAR they must sell not on acoustic experience...
Try to be friendly first, second give me an ARGUMENT if you think i am wrong... Not your whining, but argument ...Good luck...
i never complaint myself without ARGUMENTS... because it is that will make this site bad not my enumerating evident facts...
acoustic matter more than the cost of gear...
There is 4 components aspects of the soundfield not two...And not only most people dont know it , they dont know how to control them in a room this is why they dont experience them ...
You know why ?
It is very HARD and complex to do...
You know why ?
Because small room acoustic cannot be optimized by general recipe as there is all over the internet...
you know why ?
It is because all small room differ a lot by size, geometry, topology and acoustic content, and the owners hearing differ too...
Then forget general recipe for children...
Experimenting in small room acoustic is not buying panels and changing the speakers location...
Much more to do than that..
By the way my post intent was also to put at ease those of us who dont have costly system in dedicated esthetical room and invite them to put their system image without being ashamed because how a system sound for his owner is not on an image ..
Acoustic experience matter more than esthetic and cost of the system...PERIOD...
hese kind of comments are what diminish the value of this site: "Acoustic and psycho-acoustic experiments are the heart of audio not the esthetical living room with impressive gear components , generally costly we can see..", "For example i discovered in my experiments 4 aspects of the soundfield, all reviewers know only two... And they can afford the best gear ever... Why ?".
My reply to comment 1 is: you can have both and the people I know have both. I have built 5 dedicated listening rooms in 5 different custom homes with acoustics, golden ratios, and power requirements in mind before driving the 1st nail.
Comment 2: how do you know others haven’t discovered more than 2?
For those that don’t post their system, on occasion, do you view other member’s system when answering a question?
I frequently view the Ops system. It provides me with some idea of the pond in which a particular component lives. I also post because I think that it can provide a better context when I ask an equipment question. One lingering question in my mind is how does my choice of McIntosh enhance, or detracts from what I hear, so I pay attention to what equipment other equipment is paired with McIntosh amp/preamps. I also consider my use of room treatment to be in a learning part of the curve. One of my system photos shows an elaborate number of absorbers resting on the floor, but the truth is that my wife will kill me if I put some of our photos on the walls without consulting her and most are in storage, so as I pull from storage, I am storing them in my two channel room. So far, my initial effort has been trying to tame the low frequencies so that I don’t put energy into my turntable.
So, I frequently look at the Ops system. It is really unfortunate when such a posting is used as a basis for criticizing someone for their system vs trying to add value. Those sort of people, and they are everywhere, are to be ignored.
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