Thank you everyone for your replies.
What was the first power cable that you noticed a difference in the sound?
I have bought six or seven different power cords, none over $500 and have noticed little or no change in the sound of my system. All the cables are 12 gauge or bigger. Without talking about cables made with unobtainium, where did you start hear a difference.
Thanks.
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@pureclarity One of the other contributors to this thread has stated the exact opposite to your contention that front end equipment is where better PC's make the biggest difference. Got to love this forum for clarity and consensus, 🤣 | ||
@panzrwagn right, I'm not saying it was apples to apples with the OP's question, but impressive a/b considering they likely weren't using zip-wire from Bestbuy before the swap. When my system was more basic (Parasound pushing B&W 6xx, or QSC ProAmps pushing Maggie 2.6, both pushed by a Marantz pre/pro and a Bryston pre/pro in swaps) I used Bluejeans cable (nearly 20 yrs ago I bought belden+carare setups from them) and off the shelf IEC power cables. Amp swaps and pre/pro swaps made a difference. Cables... well, I tried swapping friends higher end cables vs. my bluejeans and I couldn't hear a difference at the time. Did I hear a difference moving to BJ vs. the translucent 16ga zip speaker wire and $2.00 RCAs, yup, but not between 2 "upgraded cables" since the rest of my system was what it was. I'm now running a BAK tube preamp and a Purifi powered amp (soon to be monoblock Purifi amps) pushing Tekton speakers and I can definitely hear the difference between 2 well regarded sub $1k DACs... hmm, so things are getting more revealing. Last month, I got a Puritan PSM156 and think my system sounds better with it, than without. As my system gets a lower noise floor, a larger SnR and more resolution, I "fear" I'll finally be able to hear differences in "real" cables... we'll see. I run Mogami XLRs and speaker cables now... but a 'hifi brand's' black friday sale had me buy a few new ones to try, so holiday season listening should be fun. | ||
@magnuman OP is looking at $500.00 and under. Never heard these cables or of them. Interesting. | ||
The first power cord that really impressed me was the Synergistic Master Coupler. Before that, I always thought that all that was needed was AC and a power cable. "Afterall, with the miles of AC cabling running from the power station to my house, how can a 5-foot cable make a difference?" Decades later, I am deep into power cords, conditioners etc. It is ironic though, even with all we now know, there are still those who claim the same as I uttered so many years ago, ozzy | ||
I noticed the difference when I changed to harmonic technology pro 10 power cords, OCC single crystal is by far the best for audio and then I got an even bigger improvement when I changed to the rectangular OCC single crystal, I changed everything the power cords interconnects and speaker wire to rectangular OCC single crystal copper and I couldn't be happier much better than the round OCC. | ||
curiousjm: This one's easy, and I think many of the posters have implied the same thing. If you replace a component with an ostensibly better component, but don't hear a difference, there's one obvious conclusion: The component you replaced wasn't the weakest link in the signal chain. And when we say "signal chain," we have to include your ears and your acoustic environment. I've replaced some cables and heard absolutely no difference. Others have made a huge difference. When I replaced all the power cables with good, mid-priced Audioquest cables and simultaneously added an AudioQuest Niagara power conditioner, I experienced what was arguably the most dramatic improvement in sound I've heard in, jeez, 20 years. That was because my AC mains -- driven by characteristically noisy rooftop solar panels -- was my weakest link.
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@h4k4lugi Thanks for posting that. I have no doubt bringing in Shunyata to design and implement a fully developed and integrated power, grounding, and interconnect strategy can yield a 10dB improvement in a studio. But that is a very different thing than swapping just a power cable at home. One of my jobs along the way was developing grounding and cabling schemes for large live sound touring systems because having to pick up and move several semis of gear every night then rebuild it in a new venue, with new power on a tight timeline is a huge challenge. And 10dB can make the difference between a great show and an unhappy band. But the key point is that it takes an understanding of the entire system requirements and a whole system solution. There are no single silver bullets. | ||
I must be deaf to not feel the urgency to buy a 2,000 to 4,000 bucks audio cord for my 700 bucks system ...😋🤑😵 I am deaf or my system is so well embedded i dont need it ... Or i am happy with what will be deemed a trash system by many ...😁 It is Ok ... But then how is it if i compare to all audio system i listened to in my life ? Not better than mine and in most cases inferior even with better speakers and better amplifier ... ( my Tannoy dual concentric were vastly superior to my actual low cost speakers, but i prefer the sound i have now, why ? because the superior Tannoy were badly embedded not at all in fact ,and my low cost speakers are very well embedded ) It is with this experience in my life that when i thought about S.Q. i did not thought about price tag, by lack of money for sure also, but about mechanical,electrical and especially acoustical embeddings control... i solved this question about power cord by the carlsbad idea in his post above about the fact that not all amplifier design benefit from power cord ... The Sansui alpha was a top of his era in 1980 ... My power cord is integrated with the Sansui and i will not pay to solder a new one ... 😊 | ||
I remember fiddling with off brands and some inexpensive Shunyata power cords to no effect. This was ten or fifteen years ago. With my newer Audio Research amps they come with heavy duty copper and 20 amp connectors, so I couldn’t use any of my stash. So I rotated through every Cardas line, all of which were pretty much instantly obviously better… but also tipped the tonal balance slightly and the AudioQuest Hurricane which just improved every aspect of the sound and was completely neutral.
OP. What I would recommend is to find a way to borrow an Audioquest Hurricane. These things took the audio world by storm a couple years ago. The difference should be instantly obvious and overwhelmingly positive. If not… fantastic… the power cord has no effect on your amp… you are lucky. You know for certain. End of story.
Otherwise you have a data point. If it is worth it… well, I know of incidences when an absurdly expensive cord is performance justified. Or drop down a level in the storm series.
Also, the Audioquest are incredibly tight fitting… on purpose. | ||
I own my house. First thing I did was have an electrician run a dedicated line, then various PLCs; To many to recall, but the last was a PS Audio Premier Power Plant (didn't do much for me) and various 'better' PCs including, Wire World (< $300- $500), the best were from Tekline, a boutique company (MSRP-$350-$800). The next biggest power upgrade was/is Core Power1800 MkII that has been anchoring my system for 3+ years. Check our the Verify blog on Audiogon for some interesting twists on fuses | ||
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Reading with interest as I have yet to experience an improvement with any power cable, and I am in the under $500 market as well. I did however get a significant improvement by running a dedicated line, very noticeable. However, I have had some cords negatively affect the sound, those were Pangea's on some of my source components. Took some of the life out of the sound.
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@panzrwagn this video reports that this mastering studio gained 10dB of SnR with a wholesale (pre/post) swap of Shunyata products
First time I've seen a measurable figure shown... | ||
Objectivist as subjectivist are gear focussed obsessed ... The two groups exhibit fetichism of gear taste or measuring tools... I trust acousticians.... and my own acoustic experiments 😉 No system, dac-amplifier-speakers, by design alone beat the room/ears-brain /speakers controlled parameters... I dont understand why many audiophile conflate acoustics concepts and controls with at best acoustic panels purchase... I dont understand why many ignore that in many case : mechanical resonance controls and electrical noise floor controls matter as much as their gear "taste" or specs... I dont understand ; but i trained and trusted my ears ...They are not golden but they are mine...my room is mine too ...
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Carlsbad make sense to me ... I am not an engineer ... But the designers of the Sansui alpha , these japan engineers were maniac audiophiles too as us here ... They created the top of Sansui , the alpha design , with an average power cord... Then i suppose Carlsbad is right because Sansui spared no money to reach the top of S.Q. in the war between audio corporations to be the best sound ever in the decade between 1975 and 1985 i think ( remember the big and always bigger receiver ? ) ...I could not figured out why they were so inventive, innovative and good , that their design shine even today ( i was not able to upgrade it few weeks ago with one of the best tube amp on the market) but they could put an average power cord on their top design ?... Carlsbad give me the only reason i read about which is logical ... Thanks ... By the way the Tube amp i bought waas with his own linear supply and had a lowest noise floor ... But save for that the difference in sound from the headphone out of the Sansui and from this tube acclaimed tube headphone amplifier was staggering ...No holography , no out of the head impression , timbre was too thin , etc It takes me 15 minutes to accept my loss of 300 bucks in returning it the same day ...My headphone it is true is the AKG K340 with 2 cells , electrostatic and dynamic , of 400 ohms each cells , an hybrid then, and with a sensitivity around 86 Db/mw ... It is why i used the headphone out of the big Sansui alpha ...i think that this headphone is harder or at least as hard to drive even than the HE 6 which is 50 ohms and 83,5 Db/mw.. Anyway no headphone amplifier can drive them optimally if the one i bought could not ... There is headphones with what seems to be more "details" , even if i lack no details with the K340 , and i know it because the details with my "upgrade" tube amplifier were an illusion of new details created by a more unbalanced sound impression toward the higher frequencies ...I doubt there is at affordable price anything speaker like in impression , naturalness of timbre , deep bass, and out of the head impression ... Ok i close my rant ... 😁 Power matter...Cleaner power matter but less than synergy between pieces of gear to begin with in some case ... My future solution for a cleaner power : battery and pure sine wave inverter ... I will wait for that till i could do it ... my S. Q. is so good, my headphone is my reference system after i lost my more sophisticated room and bigger speakers ...I will do it next year ...No more amplifier upgrade and money loss .. 😁 Thanks carlsbad ...
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My experience supports what Jerry is saying. With some amps I have heard a noticeable difference upgrading the stock cord to an aftermarket model—not a huge difference but one “worth” investing some additional coin. However, an amp with a well designed power supply seems not to care about PCs. For example, I ran 4 different cables on my David Berning designed LTA UL+ amps and heard no difference from the stock cord. FYI power supply design is David’s forte and, when his power supply designs are mated with his ZOTL circuitry you end up with a great amp that doesn’t need an expensive PC. | ||
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Well I had a system that just didn't play bass I changed the receptacle s to the 20 amp lines to the amps. Wow I got a bunch of bass. I am wondering if you cannot tell much difference because you have a problem farther up the line. If you don't want to spend to much money try a hospital grade plug. You can hear the difference between the plating on the receptacle s as well I have both gold and rhodium receptacle s. Try cords from a friend or try cords that you can audition and return.
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@dill perfect, now I can have my coffee knowing you are listening. | ||
With one exception, I’ve never noticed a difference. The exception is the power supply running from the controller on my turntable that runs to motors (VPI Avenenger Titan). It ran very close to the cables coming off my tone arm and created a distinct hum. Replacing with a nice cable stopped this. mind you: 1. I’ve taken care to route power mains away from interconnects, only crossing at 90 and never running close parallel. 2. All power supplies are already post-filter 3. I’ve used heavy duty mains on everything. (So low gauge, heavy duty, nice wires, but talking New Egg computer mains, not super high dollar audiophile brands. Just big wires with lots of shielding and hospital plugs routed at a distance. | ||
@panzrwagn No one here wants to listen to basic truths. Shunyata, Synergistic Research, Audioquest, Furutech, and others have latched into a bunch of gullible dreamers with little common sense and no room for enlightenment. As long as they're not taking food from their kid's mouths let them have their little diversions. | ||
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@bigtwin Yes, that is my thought. I have a friend who rebuilt his tube amp to sits on top of a bank of capacitors twice the size of the amp. All the power cable has to do is keep the capacitors charged up. this is a very flat power demand. Cable deniers usually base their claims on their superficial understanding of electricity. If you amp's average wattage is 240 watts, then you only need 2 amps and an 18 gauge cable is plenty big so 16 awg is "oversized". What they miss is the extreme dynamics of the load in an amp where 50 amps might be needed for a picosecond. So if you have power available downstream of the power cable that can respond to these dynamic demands, then the amp will be insensitive to power cables. The cable only has to provide the nameplate wattage of the amp, which is relatively low. OTOH, I have a tiny little tube amp, a Sophia Baby, that weights 13 lbs. I thought surely a 14 awg cable would be plenty for it. after a couple of days of disappointing bass a friend suggested a bigger cable and immediate improvement. In retrospect, it makes sense since this small amp has a minimal power supply. Notice that I have ignored all the magic dust in $4000 cables. All I have addressed is cable size. Jerry | ||
@carlsbad2 I find your first suggestion very interesting. If I understand you correctly, there are amp designs that manage power in such a way as to make power cables a non issue, assuming of course you are using any decent cables that can carry the required current in the first place. My last three amps have all been Hegel products. H390 to the H590 and currently a pair of H30s. I have heard zero difference it sound regardless of the PC I've tried. Was using Furutech DPS-4.1 and currently using Puritan Ultimate. Throw the stock cable that Hegel supplied into the mix and the sound is the same. Will I hear an improvement if I spend thousands on the PC? | ||
"Better yet, separating digital front end with a separate power bar from the one used for the preamp and power amp." @riccitone | ||
@curiousjim Master Couplers are all over used sites, I’ve bought 5 or 6 of them from ebay or audiomart etc. SR doesn't make the anymore. | ||
@jacobsdad2000 zzzzzzz ? Yeah, that would be a grounding issue. As in your lack of grounding in basic physics and electronics. | ||
@panzrwagn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | ||
Still waiting. See I'm one of those guys who actually took a physics class, studied power distribution and networking, and practiced it professionally for nearly 50 years, and have seen and heard, if not all, most of the tweaks in that time. Here's one - the original Monster Cable demo had 18 Ga lamp wire rolled in a coil behind the switch while the Monster Cable was laid straight. No surprise the Monster Cable A/B'd better - the coiled lamp cord was a series inductor, AKA a low-pass filter with measurable DC resistance. Trim that out and the difference went to zero. If a power cable 'lowers the noise floor', that would be measurable, and might just help things. Anybody ever measure that? Yeah, didn't think so. |
