Interesting...Does that mean the VPI gimbal design isn’t much of an "improvement?" Guess it’s in the ear of the listener. The gimbal looks just as low tech comparing the uni pivot.
Never found the uni pivot to be "unfriendly" on my now 13 year old Classic.
Any of the Audio Technica OC9/ART series sound great on a VPI.
Yes my experience was that also the differences between Gimbal and Unipivot will be subtle, for most cartridges. If you have a Koetsu, they seem to prefer the stability of Gimbal (or at least a dual pivot). More of the arm’s sonic signature seems to come from its arm tube construction and materials: metal vs. 3D vs. Fatboy. The 3D & Fatboys are warmer / darker / smoother sounding - much like the VPI tables (Aries, HR-X, Avenger) themselves. If you have a Colibri, VPI with 3D or Fatboy is a pretty good bet for it. Generally, the unipivots are no big deal once you get used to it - I feared them for years before this. The Gimbal Fatboy's bearings are silky smooth.
There is good reason VPI chooses to partner with Van den Hul and Audio Technica (I’m just extrapolating with the AT’s, it is not from experience) cartridges: they have an energetic, detailed top end that complements the VPI’s nature.
I also think the later versions of VPI’s metal unipivots are rather underrated - I like them. They’re less reactive / resonant in bass frequencies versus the 3D materials. And in my 2nd system where I had this stuff, those were the troublesome frequencies. It would probably be a different story if on concrete slab.
|
If anyone is interested in an Aries with the TNT-5 platter I described above, Audio Element in Pasadena, California just listed one here on Audiogon. The shop is owned and operated by a great guy, Brian Berdan, Brooks' son.
Brian worked in Brooks' shop (Brooks Berdan Ltd. in nearby Monrovia, which has been managed by Brian's mother Shelia since Brooks passing in 2011) part time as he was growing up, and was trained by Brooks in the art and science of turntable set up, speaker positioning, etc.
|
'The bottom line is, I heard little difference between the gimbal and the pivot styles."
Interesting...Does that mean the VPI gimbal design isn't much of an "improvement?" Guess it's in the ear of the listener. The gimbal looks just as low tech comparing the uni pivot.
Never found the uni pivot to be "unfriendly" on my now 13 year old Classic.
Any of the Audio Technica OC9/ART series sound great on a VPI.
It's the setup, LP and having a proper phonostage that will allow it to sound reasonably close to the uber tables.
As much as I like super tables, I could be happy with a DD HW40. Maybe with an aftermarket arm.
|
What impresses me about the Prime VPI line is its consistency throughout the line. Mat Weisfeld (the current head of VPI) has stated that the company is shifting from its Pivot tonearm to the Gimbal as its standard tonearm. I have had both and the wobbles other owners have voiced concern about never concerned me--although I did tweak the azimuth and the tracking force/weight more often than on other tonearms. The bottom line is, I heard little difference between the gimbal and the pivot styles.
I am curious as to what cartridges VPI "Philes" have installed on their TTs and ask that those who review this thread, disclose their kits for comparison.
|
Enjoying a Sunday listening session on my VPI Prime 21 with Soundsmith cartridge.
New tube phonostage so it just keeps getting better!
|
wturkey: Excellent system. What I notice is that VPIs really do last a long time and can be easily upgraded or modified. I mean at some point, the analog experience hits a ceiling and the fact one can reach the top with incremental improvements over time is a great feeling.
Very few companies offer that ladder upgrade experience.
|
Agreed. VPI is a standout company amongst also Rans.
Currently, my main table is the HW-40. It is just great.
The second system uses an HW-19 with the SDS, Superplatter and an SME V arm.
Love them both.
|
bdp24: Great historical description. The 21 pound platter is so quiet and stable, it's a simple marvel. The optional Analog Drive System (ADS) is a real-time improvement also. I was a bit skeptical spending $1200+ on a drive system but it too is well engineered and quiets the floor even more than the regularly aspirated version. Do not discount the new HW-40 feet either--they are a genuine improvement over the old style feet, though I still recommend an acoustic wood base (1.5 to 3 inches) to place the VPI on (in my case the Signature). I also added isoacoustic feet that further quiets and levels the table.
In any event it is exciting to hear about people's VPI experiences. A great American company that produces excellent products.
|
A great thing about some VPI models is the interchangeability and upgrade options of the turntable’s components/parts. For instance, the HW-19 came with it’s motor mounted on the table’s wooden base, but VPI later offered a 9 lb. free-standing motor pod (the SAMA), which may be used in place of the stock motor, placed inside the base. Removing the motor from the base minimizes the transfer of vibrations from the former to the latter
Then there is the interchangeability of platters and bearing assemblies. The HW-19 Mk.I through Mk.III came with a very nice 11.5", 10 lb platter and 1" diameter bearing assembly made of aluminum (with a stainless steel spindle and platter support platform, the spindle threaded on it’s top end for use with the included record clamp). The platter is a 1" thick slab of black Delrin (often incorrectly described as acrylic), with a thin disc of lead glued onto it’s underside and covered in cork. For the HW-19 Mk. IV, VPI increased the platter thickness to 1.5 inches (weight unknown to me). The combination of the Delrin platter and dedicated clamp gave me the feeling that the needs of LP playback---in terms of vinyl resonances---had finally been successfully addressed and met.
For the Aries, VPI introduced a new platter and bearing (used through the Aries Mk. IV, as well as the TNT Mk.I through Mk.IV). The platter is comprised of two sections: a bottom section of 7/8" thick aluminum, with the cork-covered lead disc of the HW-19 remaining. Glued and bolted onto that aluminum section is a top section of 5/8" thick Delrin, the total platter measuring 1.25" thick and weighing 15 lbs. The bearing well is machined stainless steel, as with the HW-19 1" in diameter. But unlike the aluminum HW-19 bearing well---which is secured to the table’s floating top plate with bolts, the well of the Aries is threaded, the threads used in conjunction with a nut to secure the well to the table’s top plate.
As the bearing wells of both the HW-19 and the Aries are 1" in diameter, an easy HW-19 upgrade is to replace it’s stock platter and bearing assembly with those of the Aries. That’s why you occasionally see the platter and bearing assembly from an HW-19 for sale, as well (no pun intended) as Aries Mk.I-Mk.IV/TNT Mk.I-MK.IV platter/bearing wanted ads.
Then there is the ultimate upgrade path for both the HW-19 (all versions) and Aries Mk.I through Mk. IV: the replacement of the stock platter with that of the TNT Mk.V. The TNT MK. V platter is a real beaut: a bottom section of 5/8" thick stainless steel (with no lead layer), topped with a 7/8" section of black Delrin, the whole platter measuring 1.5" thick and weighing about 21.5 lbs. This platter is considered by many VPI enthusiasts as the best platter the company ever made. I’m one of those enthusiasts.
|
I have an Ortofon Winfield cafrtrdge that needed attention. Soundsmith did a great job with new stylus....I believe it sounds better than new (maybe I was more accurate in installing it this time)
|
I like VPI also. I have had three of their tables starting with a Super Xcoutmzster with the 9 inch arm followed by a prime and finally a Classic 4 in rosewood with the 3d arm.
The Classic 4 is my last turntable. It has a Lyra Kloes on it.
|
I have the unipivot on my Aries Scout and placed springs under the supplied feet never a warble, skip or wiggle and I'm working out on the in the same room with a wood floor.
|
I met Mat at his offices and he was incredibly down to earth, nice and reasonable. Sold me a new van den Hul cartridge (they are the US distributor) instead of getting my old one serviced since he said the pandemic had made it very difficult to to get the worn out stylus replaced and whatever other service would be needed. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse.
He had his top tech guy install it on my Rega P8 and didn't denigrate the table at all. Just said if I was ever thinking of making a move he would do a side by side demo for me versus one of his tables. Very professional.
Great little company, just not a fan of their arms. My brother in law has one of their top of the line multi arm tables and loves it. I can't stand the unipivots and their gimbals seem to be overpriced. They do a better job of isolation than Rega - different philosophy.
If you want to buy American, I think there are only 2 choices these days.
|
I love my VPI Prime 21.
I started with a VPI Nomad and an Ortofon 2M red then blue.
I then put a Soundsmith Zephyr on it and was amazed at the sound.
I upgraded to the Prime 21 with gimbal arm and couldn’t be happier with it. I’m running a Soundsmith Zephyr Mk3 ES moving iron cart.
Great company, great product made in USA and great customer service.
|
Do you mean record cleaning machines?
|
VPI made turntable cleaning machines when no one else were making them. Kudos to them!!!
|
I've been a content Prime owner for years.
There are many quality brand TT to be had and VPI takes a backseat to none. Happy listening 🎶
|
|
To hysteve have you had the stylus and cartridge checked it could be time for a rebuild or a new one this should improve your sound considerably .
Do folks follow the maintenance instructions and tune up there table at least once a year.
A very happy VPI Scout Aries owner here. I was thinking of moving up the line but not sure what I'd gain.
|
I had a few bad experiences with VPI customer service over warranty issues, it really soured me. Fortunately, my last 2 interactions have been great. I do have several items I need to cover with them, but keep putting it off as I feel like a small fish in the sea calling them.
|
@bdp24 Wow...that's great!
On the flip side, years ago I had a Music Hall table that I needed something for. Talked to Roy. He couldn't have been more of a nasty, condescending prick.
|
I bought a used VPI HW-19 Mk.3 and an Aries, and each needed the ball bearing at the bottom of their bearing spindles replaced---they had developed a worn flat spot. Try as I might, I could not dislodge the ball bearing from the bottom of the spindle (I tried heating the ball, and freezing it).
I emailed Harry Weisfeld, who invited me to send him both complete bearing assemblies (spindle and bearing well). He had a technician work on both, and that tech was able to dislodge one of the ball bearings, which he replaced with a new, larger one. The other one just wouldn't come loose, so Harry had his machinist fabricate a new spindle and install a new ball bearing, and then returned both bearing assemblies to me, at no charge!
Does customer service get any better than that?!
|
I am still using a TNT V in my main system, and I always found VPI responsive to queries.
|
Hysteve:
Contact VPI at their factory headquarters in Cliffwood, New Jersey. They are amazingly service oriented even with older tables. When you talk to the folks there (if he's there you could be on the phone with Mat W. -- the CEO) they will be excellent . Plus, they have an excellent inventory of parts for older tables. Hope it works out for you.
|
I check that my VPI is in proper alignment and in years have not adjusted anything......what are you people adjusting?? Mine is rock solid The arm has 2nd pivot attached....the speed is fine....etc......
|
Weak spot of VPI TTs is their tonearm wiring concept where tonearm cable is attached to the moving Female Bearing assembly and at other end the cable connected to unnecessary Lemo Connector with extra unnecessary contacts. Those complications make whole system weak.
|
I have a VPI classic 1 which I bought used from a relative that has a Uni pivot arm, which I am pretty sure it came with the table. Also has a transfiguration Axia cartridge and I don’t know what the mileage is on it because I don’t know when it was purchased. I do know that transfiguration is out of business now. So I’m wondering how I can tweak this table reasonably and get better sound. It doesn’t sound bad, but I’m thinking it can sound better, I say this because my first foray back into this crazy music playing/building game A few years ago, I bought an old vintage technics quartz table and put a Grado Green cartridge on it. In someways I believe it sounds as good or better than the VPI. So as one with a lot of experience with VPI, what do you think? Any suggestions for better tone arm or cartridge? I’ve read somewhere where someone suggested getting rid of the unit-pivot tone arm.
|
Very little experience with them, but when I went looking for something INCREDIBLY minor, they got right back to me and sent the part no charge. The mark of a great company...plus their products are great.
|
Perhaps you were in the wrong booth. The “VIP” booth at any show is bound to be manned by snooty people.
|
I started out with a VPI Scout and I gotta say, VPI's are not a beginners 'table. Maybe some don't mind the fussiness, but I did. Other than that, they are rock solid.
|
I have owned a Classic II for ~10 years, playing approximately 700 LPs per year. It is a workhorse (with proper maintenance). It is my 'daily driver'. The unpivot design needs frequent calibration/checks of the cart (VTA, azimuth, etc.) to keep it in proper alignment.
That said, I also own a Thorens TD-124 (with SME arm), which is every-bit as good, yet provides a larger, meatier sound - more drive. Being an antique, it also needs proper maintenance.
Regarding the company, I spent time in the VIP rooms at a few audio-shows and found the VIP owners to be the LEAST pleasant of the vendor/owners at those shows - generally oblivious to the customers in the room. I am not clear what my next 'table will be, but I will definitely shop around. There are plenty of other good 'tables in the $4k to $6k range.
Best
|
About three years ago after getting back into vinyl I was looking to upgrade. I contacted a recommended dealer and he said he could get me the HW40 for a very reasonable price. I had not even considered a VPI. He contacted Mast and I had them install the Ortofon Cadenza Black. I cold not be happier with the turntable. It was more that I had wanted to spend at the time but I am glad I did.
|
GHDprentice;
The Acoustic Research Reference phono stage: you mentioned, do you still have that?
|
Thanks for the rersponses. Mat is engaging because he shares the hobby and, as an engineer trained audiophile really knows what he is doing. if you're ever in the PA/NY/NJ area, and you are considering a new turntable, call and visit Cliffwood, Nj and you'll end up buying a VPI.....
|
Congrats. Seen and heard VPI at many shows. Met Mat. Good company.
|
I have an upgraded Superscoutmaster....runs well. Disappointed in VPI in general. It was an interesting company when Harry was in charge....oh well
|
Thanks for sharing. I had a VPI Aries for around twenty years. Great sounding, dynamic and reliable table. Each time I upgraded my phonostage it sounded better, all the way to an Audio Research Reference phono stage.
|
