Vinyl playback - lack of bass?

Thanks all, so this is what I am going to do based on what I have read here.

1. I need to do a better test. I think someone gave me an idea with Daft Punk. I might test 1 track from Random Access Memories and compare both digital vs LP.

2. I need to re look at my capacitance settings. I remember with the 310lp I think I was confused as the manual suggested to use 0pF for MC cartridges, however, for the Ania, it states to use 1000 pF, which the 310lp only has 3 options, 0pF, 100pF and 470pF. At first I thought 100pF was the 1000 one since it was missing. Ill double check what its set at, so not sure at the moment if it should be on 470 or 0.

3. I think I should give the Ania a true test and wait until its fully broken in. I know the store did indeed tell me after 100 hours it will change. Im hoping to hear something at 50 Hours, fingers crossed.

4. maybe its time to change the phono first (before the TT, not sure if I want to change it yet, since I haven't used it much). Im not sure if maybe the pass labs xp15 is a good option (read reviews that it has a warmer sound than the xp17) This may need another discussion thread on its own in the near future.

One of my favorite carts to throw on is a Shure M44G Club/Party unit. Makes me want to spin some tunes after a tinkering session. 
* this is genre specific and we never touch the good stuff during these regressions. 

Great amp , and yes the cartridge needs more time breaking in .

To test old or original 60's rock vinyl for bass try a testing your original release with a new " remastered " one , say like the Beatles remastered by Giles Martin .

A real good test would be to play The Cowboy Junkies album All That Reckoning  , if you don't have bass slam then there might be a problem in your cartridge setup . 

I agree with the many comments on set-up and media. One thing I've observed in all media; CD, SACD, Digital and Vinyl, is that the source media is often a big factor in how prominent the bass is presented. Try playing some R&B vinyl and see if you get a strong bass response; something like Luther Vandross.

Next reverse your test, once you identify a vinyl source with strong bass response then play the same music on digital or CD and see what your results are.

I agree with the many comments on set-up and media. One thing I've observed in all media; CD, SACD, Digital and Vinyl, is that the source media is often a big factor in how prominent the bass is presented. Try playing some R&B vinyl and see if you get a strong bass response; something like Luther Vandross.

Next reverse your test, once you identify a vinyl source with strong bass response then play the same music on digital or CD and see what your results are.

I haven't read every single comment but if I just go on intuition alone I really feel like vinyl simply doesn't have the bandwidth for it.  It seems like it's why we didn't have subs (to a large degree) back then.  But I'm not 100% sure and could google it but sometimes I like to pretend we don't have google and such.  lol

One of the many reasons my vintage Garrard TT and system components aren’t on display collecting dust anymore, there comes a time said the CD player to the cassette and R/R players…..lol 

Cheers 

Many older records in general can sound thin and dull.

Suggest you try newer records to compare. On my setup, my TT has just as much bass as my digital, and even my tuner (yeah, I still listen to radio).

Just got an anniversary vinyl of Daft Punk. It has just as much bass as the digital version. On my system sounds better overall over the digital version. 

Think it's either your cartridge setup, or phono-pre setup. Play around with it, till you find what you are missing. 

Many older records were light on bass.  To really check your equipment, you would have to compare many albums to their equivalent CDs.   Many of the CDs were remastered, so, you will not be able to tell unless you use many test cases.  Concentrate on music that is known for being light on bass.   In addition, CDs usually play at louder volume than records, so, make sure you even out the loudness when doing your comparison.  In my personal experience, records do not have less bass than their matching CD.  In fact, many records sound "thicker" than their matching CD.  Some CDs sound "thin" to me relative to the original record. 

Yeah, I noticed this a while ago so I just keep a Schiit Loki Mini in the final stage of my vinyl setup to give a little bass boost as well as to help correct any less than perfect recordings. It's a really transparent EQ. 

Yeah, I noticed this a while ago so I just keep a Schiit Loki Mini in the final stage of my vinyl setup to give a little bass boost as well as to help correct any less than perfect recordings. It's a really transparent EQ. 

Yeah, I noticed this a while ago so I just keep a Schiit Loki Mini in the final stage of my vinyl setup to give a little bass boost as well as to help correct any less than perfect recordings. It's a really transparent EQ. 

I have Simaudio 740p balanced into Simaudio 760a into Daedalus speakers. My analog is VPI prime, AT 760 SLC into Ayre P-5xe balanced. My digital is Marantz SACD 30n se into pre se. I have a Line Magnetic LM-515 CD player that I run balanced into my pre. My analog has considerably more bass. My Marantz seems rolled on both extremes. My Line Magnetic CD player has good bass and extension on both ends. I think Simaudio sounds better with balanced inputs. But Simaudio is definitely details oriented and kinda thin sounding. I have started a different thread asking about help with this. Almost lacking dynamic punch. 

This is not my experience. Prior to improving the isolation of my turntable there I felt there was an advantage to the quality of sound between analog and digital above 65-70 dbs. 
 

I has an HRS isolation system and that is no longer the case. I think bass can vary from recording to recording and generally find it better in the analog format for my system. 
 

My system consists of Rega, Moon and Sonus faber as well. 

Would you consider adding a quality graphic equalizer to boost the bass on your turntable?  

This reminds me of my earlier days in this hobby where I would drive myself to distraction listening for the most subtle aspects of my audio system. In those days my hearing  was certainly better than it is now.  I remember that I could hear a noticeable difference when I replaced my Naim Audio NAP 110 with an NAP 160, and a much more noticeable difference when I replaced the NAP 160 with a pair of NAIM NAP 135 monoblocks.  Then there was the dramatic difference when I went from my Rotel RCD855 CD player $400 to my Naim CDi CD player $4000. 

As for the differences between analogue and digital, IME analogue barely inches out digital in regard to which sounds more like live music. Neither, completely accurately reproduces the experience of listening to a live performance, but in some instances they can come amazingly close to doing so. 

Interestingly  enough,  one of the best audio experiences I've ever had was listening to a live studio performance of Mary Chapin Carpenter at the local public radio station back in the early 1990's, on my analogue Naim Audio NAT 01 FM tuner.  To this day it remains one of the best musical performances I have ever heard. 

Of course, digital is so convenient to use with all of the available streaming  platforms in the modern day,  and sonically it's light years better sounding than it was when it first became mainstream back in the 1980's. 

However, I still keep my old SYSTEMDEK IIX around because I guess I'll always love record albums, hearkening back to my first audio system in the 1970's, when I was  still a teenager.  Regardless of the medium, or the audio system that its played backed on, I listen less critically now, yet, find myself enjoying music more than ever. 😊

There are SO MANY variables to weigh and consider here in this very general A/B question that it amounts to another "is digital better than vinyl" argument.  Generally speaking, when I (and friends) listen to my rig, vinyl always provides a wee bit more but, more importantly, more than wee bit cleaner, tighter and more accurate bass response.  I've done several A/B tests with my rig, using copies of well-recorded & engineered CD albums and the same well recorded & engineered good pressing of the same album to test what I thought I was hearing in this regard, and vinyl always, IMHO, produces the best sound fidelity.  Is this because I'm not a bass head, per se, attributable to neuroaudiological conditioning, cleaner vinyl, better vinyl pressings, etc.  Again, too many variables to arrive at anything other than generalizations.  To each his own!  Vive la difference!

I always assumed the bass was not as pronounced on vinyl because of the physical limitations of a plastic disk having grooves that have to satisfy the both the high end and low end of the spectrum (isn’t that why the RIAA curve was used?).

And yes, digital recordings if they were mastered to be pure digital can get down to inaudible frequencies that you just feel.  It becomes more pronounced if you use subwoofers.   Since I have the cutover frequency of my subwoofers at 50hz, I generally don’t hear anything from them with either analog or analog digitized, unless the material has been remastered.  

Bass on LP's is often summed to avoid cartridge tracking problems. Witness the early pressings of Led Zeppelin II where Bob Ludwig had to re-cut the lacquers. Cheap cartridges couldn't track the bass modulations.

IMO, 30 hours on a cartridge is barely broken in. Reevaluate after about 50 hours running near the high end of the VTF. I think my current cart sounded best at about 100 hours, but I’m not positive about that.  Also, sometimes the table can be very sensitive to what it sits on. Experiment with platforms

Fully agree with @lewn. Not related to digital vs analog IMHO. Your set up is very good. Likely the Rega with Ania cartridge lacks what you are looking for. I bought a Rega P10 last year and was very disappointed , notably because of the lack of bass compared to my older Heybrook TT2 with a Hana SL. Sold it to someone who had a P6 with an Ania cartridge who was finding his P6 too bright. Now have a Linn LP12 /Arko with a Pure Fidelity Stratos and it is a fantastic match with great detail and punch.

Op, for my setup, my vinyl side (Hana ML > Aria) is slightly warmer, with slightly stronger bass than my digital side (Aurender > Qutest). I have a SimAudio amp & BHK pre with warm Brimar NOS tubes.

I believe it is component and/or settings dependent. 

You have a great system there.  You do NOT need a new TT and cartridge.  Ignore any suggestion to that.  I would recommend you double check your VTA and your tracking force.  Also, maybe experiment with settings on your phono pre amp.  I have noticed that some vinyl versions of the same song lack some deep bass compared to their digital versions.  I think that can be from the mastering as often they are different.  However, for the most part I find my setup very similar in the bass region as I compare analog to digital. 

Ok so no secret digital has lower frequency range. However digital bass is more of a slam, as in instant and quickly gone  whereas from a tt your bass freq won't go as low however most interpret it more bass because it will sound fuller, heavier even tho it in the higher frequency range. So measurably yeah your digital should go lower, but your impression should be they are about the same. Obviously there are variables as mentioned as to the turntable, the stylus, the phono  the LPs themselves. I have  few different turntables, one is a Rega P3 w orton black, I do not have a lack of bass compared to my digital setup. Also that seems like plenty of time for your stylus to beak in. All 3 of my stylus took less than 10 hrs to break-in (and yes part of the break-in was bass) after that I never noticed a sonic change. I'd keep looking into. Best of luck 

Hey @skads_187, you mentioned they were older albums. Were those albums on the thin side compared to your newer thick 180g vinyl? Perhaps your VTA needs to be checked. If the pivot end of your tonearm is raised too high, it can lean out the sound, and if the pivot side is too low, it can overemphasize the bass. Check that out before you make too many changes. Also what resistance settings are you running on your phono stage? Too high of resistor value could also lean out the sound. If you’re running it about 1K, maybe try 470K, or even lower until it sounds correct.

@OP You need a better cartridge. Or at least a different cartridge. Ultimately a better turntable will help too.

My vinyl set up has as much bass if not more as my digital setup. I don't find analog reproduction lacking any punch. My Thoren 320 MK III TT with Benz Micro cartridge and Audio Research PH5 phono amp provide plenty of boom. Recently played Beethoven's 5th and 6th symphonies and there was plenty of slam. My preamp, amp and speakers are Cary Audio SLP 03, Mark Levinson 23.5, and Thiel 3.6. I think your cartridge, phono preamp may have to do something about it.

Components make the difference... when the same source material is used (same mastered recordings).

It is your turntable/ cartridge / phonostage. I used to own Olympica 3 speakers and a Pass 350 amp with Simm DAC and CD player. My turntable sounded better than streaming or CDs. With more bass. Simm is detailed oriented and lean sounding. I highly recommend a high quality tube phono stage and turntable. 

My current system the analog and digital legs sound the same... by design. 

I highly recommend being very careful when using subs, They are really easy to turn up too loud or cross over to high and end up negatively impacting the overall sound. It can confuse the central image, disrupt the sound stage. I have frequently walked into a system with a subwoofer(s)... and instantly go over and turn them down... to the delight of the owner. 

If anything, I always thought that Rega's design philosophy, ultra light weight minimalist construction with emphasis on rigidity and structural strength, might possibly result in a slightly reticent bass response. No matter what is the cause, even if it is nothing but audiophilia, it would be difficult to ferret out. I do not agree that the difference is purely the difference between analog and digital.  The best analog bass response can be superior to digital in terms of tonal richness, differentiation of instruments, and sense of depth.

There are a lot of variables.  The mastering of every recording is different.  Many, if not most recordings, and especially digital streams are compressed.  Phono cartridges are not perfectly linear.  There are extra stages of amplification in the analogue signal path.  Then there is the RIAA equalization curve that is never perfect.  So, things will sound different.

Recordings:

Analog versions differ vs Digital versions differ

= apples and oranges 

Digital is supposed to be able to handle more bass than vinyl, but I’m pretty sure in reality that capability is not utilized very often. I have a few records where I have both analog and digital copies and I really don’t hear any difference in bass response between any of them.

I agree that bass response in older records can be very lacking. That seemed to start to improve in the early seventies but didn’t seem to become consistent until the eighties.

Also a lot of rooms will accentuate the mid range, so some room treatments and or room correction can help balance out the sound.

I would not agree with the idea that digital recordings have more bass than their analog counterpart. Aside from purposely over engineered or compressed digital release, I would argue that if your bass is light when playing analog it is due to the choice in turntable, phono stage and cartridge. In theory, if the recording version is the same for analog and digital, they should not sound so different. Only in the subtleties that lend one to be more enjoyable to you.

@bubba12 thanks, I kind of had a feeling about this as well.

ok, it might be potentially the source material. I think Ill need to find another song/album to compare with and play them one after the other to do an A/B test.

I believe digital usually gets more pronounced bass. I don't think you are wrong.