Used Market Savings vs. The Dealer Experience

Part of the hobby for me has always been experimenting with different amps, speakers, etc. in my own home.  I helped a dealer with setup for a few years and was fortunate to be paid gear instead of cash (side work with benefits).  That and buying used has allowed me to try a dozen speakers and amps over time while maintaining a similar overall  investment, give or take.
After of tinkering, upsizing and downsizing, I have no problem paying closer to retail for something I want because I feel like my itch to make changes is wading.  

depending on the dealer, it's not always a pleasant experience...

You just experienced the best reason to establish a relationship with and purchase from a dealer.

And I was tickled to hear you say "she". Not too many of us in high end audio.

Awesome @bfjones01 !
Glad to hear about you ending up happy and saving money. Sounds like you’ve got a good dealer there.

If I know that I’ll keep the item and it’s a large purchase, I buy it from the dealer.

If I’m not sure that I’ll be keeping the item and the item is easily shippable, I’ll buy it from Audiogon

@bfjones01 congrats on your new table! It sounds like you have an excellent dealer who took her time with you to find out what you really wanted. And I hadn't looked at Linn tables in a while looks like they've totally revisited the nomenclature it was cool to check out their site, Happy listening!

I was demoing hegel int's from my dealer and found a 9 month old unit for nearly 1/2 price online so I went back to the dealer and asked if I could pay for their time and effort since the online bargain was too good to pass on and the owner called me and negotiated a fair price on his demo unit. H says people use his store like that and appreciated me giving him an opportunity to compete. Now I just tell them up what I expect to pay for a product if it meets my requirements because i REALLY DON'T WANT TO WASTE EACH OTHERS TIME. 

Well, based on the feedback from this thread I decided to take a trip to my dealer and am very, very glad I did. Somewhat unexpectedly, I placed an order for a black Linn Akurate LP12 and will be keeping both my Triton 2s and my Mc MA252 for the foreseeable future. Saved a little money staying with the Adikt cartridge per their recommendation. That’s the gist, but thought I’d summarize my experience and impressions for those interested.

First, my dealer had about a 30 minute conversation with me where we covered what I envisioned for my system. She steered me away from the Mc separates (C1100 + MC312) I was considering, saying that the price difference would probably be better applied elsewhere at this point. We’d listen to speakers, but she suspected I’d be happiest upgrading my TT.

We started with a pair of blood-red Wilson Sabrinas. They were fed by a MA252 as well as a Clearaudio Concept (close cousin to my Marantz), so comparisons to my system were about as close as you could get. We could isolate sound difference in speakers. With the Sabrinas, I found the timing and "togetherness" to stick out. We were not spinning Kid A, but I kept repeating "everything in its right place" in my mind. From a PRAT standpoint it was reminiscent of the $200k Wilson-based setup I’d heard a few years prior, but a little less clarity and dynamic control with the sound. Maybe the latter was the D’Agostino amp magic. Who knows? The lows to me sounded a little less controlled and musical than the Titans, with a little less authoritative slam. The Concept table with stock cart was about on par with my Marantz -- maybe a bit smoother, but I actually found the noise floor to be higher than my deck and the sound a little less rich.

She swapped out the Concept for a Linn Majik LP12 and bam -- there was what I was looking for. Superior in every regard is the simplest and most succinct way to put it, and I found the overall sonic signature more pleasing. Haven’t been a fan of the retro look, but then I saw one in black. Much better.

Finally, we swapped out the Sabrinas with the Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs, which I was most interested to hear again, keeping the Majik and MA252. To me they didn’t have quite the PRAT of the Wilsons, but a sweeter, silkier midrange I very much enjoyed. The bass, again, was less controlled, defined, and authoritative than the Tritons. To my ears, Goldenear have really done a nice job with the active sub sections to please folks who can’t (or prefer not to) have a dedicated sub. It makes a difference. I also learned that I’m apparently a little bit of a basshead because I found that dimension to be a non-negotiable while PRAT and a sweet midrange were nice-to-haves. I listen to quite a bit of hip-hop and electronic, so that’s what does it for me. My dealer said taking the Olympica IIIs and adding a dedicated sub would be a logical next step to get the best of my top 2 priorities and she’s probably right. However, we are both aware that a dedicated sub is impractical and spacially impossible in my current listening environment. Just for fun, we ended by swapping the MA252 over to a MA8900, and in that particular system, I’d had about enough after 30 seconds. Everything was much sharper, forward, and "in your grill." I felt better about the MA252 and convincing me to go back to a SS pre would take some doing, I believe.

In the end, she recommended I keep my Tritons and MA252, upgrade to the Linn Majik table, and see how it settles into the system. Separate electronics and speakers/sub would be considerations when my living situation becomes more permanent in the coming year(s).

Now we just had to talk the table. She explained the relative merits of each of the table components, and I decided I just wanted to go ahead and get something that would perform admirably with my future setup. Akurate level it was, but they talked me into sticking with the $600 Adikt cartridge over the $2k Krystal because the MA252’s phono stage doesn’t support MC and it’s an easy upgrade (to Krystal or other) later. I was more than comfortable going bigger on the TT than I’d expected because I’d just heard Exhibit A that better source equals better sound. They offered a discount if I assembled the deck myself, but heck no. I’d already talked to their technician who had 25+ years experience with the brand and was like the Cesar Milan of Sondeks. I’d have been a damn fool.

In the end I paid list price plus sales tax, and yet in reality I feel like I got a substantial discount by not buying a bunch of gear I didn’t need or like as much as what I have. I walked in openly admitting I’d spend $30k and walked out extremely confident in my purchase with $20k still in my pocket. Only downside -- it’s a shame this dealer has stopped offering Goldenear because I think one day I’ll want a showdown between T-Refs and Olympica IIIs + sub. We’ll see about that, but regardless, I do expect to be doing business with this dealer regularly for as long as I’m in the area.

The new table will be in and ready for pickup in 2 weeks.  Way better than Christmas...

Used & new gear exist in an incredibly necessary, self-propelling,  incredibly virtuous circle.  One supports & feeds the other.  The used gear democratizes audio & allows many an entry point otherwise unavailable. It also gives new options to try additional gear for many.  On top of socializing audio far more deeply & informally.

It's hardly a binary choice between the two but rather crucial parts of an entire ecology necessary for the whole to thrive.  Just as the predator & prey have equal status within nature as critical links in the chain that keep all in balance. The stores sell much-used gear but can't do it all single-handed. They need help & they get it. 

ya man, miss getting the Spearit Sound emails, they carried stuff outside my normal orbit...always enjoyed that...

and another +1 for Audio Classics....I use the service department, trusted them with my prized MX-110Z, Modeferi worked on it....gemstone grade...

Anything I have ever bought on the basis of review, recommendation, blog or thread is no longer in my system.  (Almost) the only components that have brought the system up in sound quality, that continue to give pleasure, are components that I have been allowed to try at home in the rest of the system in the room where they play.  In the long run (and I've been swapping out audio gear for 50 years or so) you'll save money by avoiding the bargains.

That's only possible with a dealer's help.  I've had dealers bring in gear and set it up and let me listen for weeks before deciding.  In a few cases, I have (somewhat sheepishly) declined to buy it, and they have been OK with that.  Why?  Because if you are honest with them, they can accept the loss of time and income it takes them to allow you a true audition, knowing that it's part of their cost of doing business, and it's going to cost the customer more if he/she decides to keep the gear.  Of course it may take some time before they're willing to trust you with a $50K component, so the relationship gets built slowly.
Most often the dealer is NOT local.  If you want to listen to a range of high-end gear, you'll be working with dealers all over the country.  I don't have any "local" dealer closer than 200 miles away.  In one case, he made multiple trips to my home to set up a turntable, then again to upgrade the arm.  (I did buy that).  In another case, I made an appointment to audition a CD/DAC stack, the dealer spent an entire afternoon with me alone, and yet I did not buy it.  But I kept the dealer (and the US distributor) aware of my reasoning at all stages.  It may not have been the outcome they hoped for, but they knew I was a serious buyer, not fooling with them, and they accepted that.  I expect one day I could go back to that dealer and audition something else, and they would be just as accommodating.
I've bought a pair of huge floor standing speakers from a dealer on the other side of the country, after hearing them twice at shows, and this is the one exception to my listen-at-home rule.  The advantage was paying no tax and no shipping, and I got a very good price on new up-to-date gear by saving him the trouble.  But I was pretty certain of what I was getting, because I already owned a smaller model from the same manufacturer.

Once, a dealer in another state shipped me a very heavy and expensive phono stage for home audition, and to my own surprise, I didn't like it.  It cost me less to ship it back than it would have cost to fly there, plus by hearing it at home I got a much more accurate impression of the gear.  But we're still friends.

@jafant...…..

I remember Jack when he was at Images Sight & Sound in Northampton, Ma. I bought a brand new McCormack DNA1 from him. Stupidly, I sold it for a Classe15 amp at another dealer. Hey, I was much younger and less wise in audio.

stereo5
Jack is the best indeed. I hope that he landed a position in Audio retail or Manufacturer representative elsewhere. His kind of expertise is a rare find these days. Good to read that you have established a relationship with Audio Classics, McIntosh gear.  Happy Listening!

All my recent purchases were from the same dealer. I purchased 6 McIntosh pieces of equipment this year, all from Audio Classics. They treat you so well, just like family. I deal exclusively with Mike Sastra who is the VP of Audio Classics. He always answers your calls and email in an extremely timely manner and even helped me out on a Sunday of a holiday weekend. If they sell a product I am interested in, they will definitely get my business. Price is secondary. It’s a good feeling that the dealer always has your back in the unlikely event that something goes wrong. Mike talked me out of a more expensive Mac amplifier, he said what I was buying was more than enough and he was right. He also saved me another 3 grand by doing that. How many salespeople will do that? The other dealer I will deal exclusively with is Adirondack Audio. They sold me my Technics SL1200G, gave me an extremely fair price for the VPI Prime I traded in and spent an hour going over the set up of the cartridge and table. When my wife and I were leaving the store, all the people working in the store, came outside and shook my and my wife’s hand and thanked us for our business. Between those 2 stores in NY, I am all set and have no need to go elsewhere.  I also found out that the owner of Adirondack Audio grew up in Fall River, Mass which is 30 miles from where I grew up in Rhode Island.  Small world.

@jafant...…………………….

I really don’t know. Jack Tozzi was still selling off the rest of their equipment after they officially closed. He was a great guy. The best deal I ever got in all of audio was an exhibition stock (printed on the box) of an Esoteric UX-3 Universal player that I purchased from Spearit.. It went for $8500.00 and I got it for $3895.00 with a full 3 year warranty from Esoteric. It had been used as a static display at a few audio shows, sent back to Esoteric for a refresh and firmware update and then sold to me. I couldn’t get the cash out of my wallet fast enough.  It looked absolutely brand new, not a mark on it.

Jack told me when I picked it up that it was one of the 3 best SACD players he ever heard and he was right. I have had it for7 years now and I am still in love with it.

I’ve done both ~ buy used via Canuck Audio Mart and new through 2 trusted dealers.  I tend to buy used when upgrading - eg. moving up through the Cardas cable line.  I tend to buy new when trying something new ~ eg. when making a significant speaker upgrade or when buying a new model that isn’t on the used market. I really value the advice of my dealers ~ they know my taste and system and make great recommendations.  I particularly love it when they tell me NOT to waste my money on things that are not all they are hyped up to be.

Been here 21 years. ALWAYS bought used gear. Nothing better than getting high end gear for less than 50 percent, or less, than buying new. Over 300 transactions between here, and elsewhere. Sampled, and flipped, a lot of gear on AG. Before there was AG some longtime members recall the days of buying used gear at rec.audio.mktplace. Lots of great used gear sold at great prices. I never understood the need to buy new for a warranty that expires. Great gear lasts forever. Never had a problem with a single transaction. Buying new at list price is great if you’ve money to burn. Modest homes in my area begin at $500k. One has to have their priorities in order.

+1 ebm, so rewarding indeed!

Wow. Do you do that when you buy a car? That is ridiculous to me. 

@ebm +1

When I engage a dealer, I pay list price. I only engage dealers that are active in the in the audio community (especially here on AudioGon).

Love to go to dealers and pay full list its a great experience worth the money.

I buy a mix of new/used/demo, based on the relationship I have with the dealer and the price of the gear.

Goodwin's High End treated me very well on my pair of monoblocks.

Spearit took great care of me for my previous set of speakers and my current preamp.  It is really too bad they are gone now.  

Mark at Reno HiFi is a true gentleman and a terrific business person.  I got my Pass Labs XP-15 from him.  He offered to send me the phono-stage and if I didn't like it, I could return it, paying only for shipping to and fro.  That's good business-- really good business, and it doesn't cost a lot to ship a phono stage.

I wouldn't hesitate to call a nearby dealer and ask what they have for demo, used or consignment gear, and would pay a reasonable premium for that gear over something on line, or straight-used.  Really good dealers allow you a week to 10 days to try the gear and you can return it if you don't like it-- like Goodwin's did for me.

I have purchased some really nice used gear, right here on Audiogon.  I have been very fortunate to get good deals on great products from really nice people.  When I strike up a conversation with somebody about their gear, I can usually tell if they are good people or somebody I should run away from in a pretty short period of time.  I ask straight forward questions;  "Are you the original owner?  How old is the product?  Has it ever been serviced?  Is the warranty transferrable?"  I always trust my instincts and have actually developed some friendships with sellers on Audiogon.

Bottom line-- unless something is priced really inexpensively, like 30-40% off, make sure you can return it if it doesn't work in your room.

Hope this is helpful.

Some dealers know their stuff. But here in Atlanta there are really only two that I feel know enough to rig the speakers they’re trying to sell properly, i.e. with electronics that will show them off properly and setup in a room properly. Those two generally I feel like I’m hearing what the speakers are really capable of because they’re driven and setup properly. The rest of the so-called high end dealers here are all largely clueless. And both of the two I actually DO generally trust are so wed to their own idea of what’s best that even then I wonder if they really know what they’re doing. I’ve generally bought new gear but recently I bought a used Pass Labs amplifier and it has been a game changer for me, so much so I’m wondering what it would do to some of the speakers offered by said two dealers. But it weighs like 110 pounds and there’s no way I’m trucking that into a dealer showroom. Oh the dealers would be happy to accommodate me if I would though. Anyway I think the current Pass products are an example of something you can buy used. They are built to LAST and are difficult to abuse. So I do think there are items that you can "more" safely buy used than others. Cables are another item you can buy used for example.  With regard to discounts I wonder if it  largely depends on the market in the particular city you're in.  10% YES.  15% has been a harder sell for me in working with dealers.  20% almost never unless its something they already want to get rid of.

This is why you go to audio shows. You listen to all sorts of gear and you go back home with ideas and start shopping used or new with no guilt. Most individual dealers IMO don’t have everything I want. For example, how many dealers will carry usher, ps audio, McIntosh, hanss, soundsmith and some other brands in 1 location? If you go into a dealer looking for a system and say you want a certain dac that they don’t carry, they will start bad mouthing the brand they don’t carry and try to sell you 1 of their brands. So if you have to go to a few dealers to create a system, what benefit does a single dealer provide? Are You going to invite multiple dealers into your house to setup your system? Many manufacturers and dealers around the country will give you a 30 day trial period and this will allow you to demo or perform a shootout between different products.

I meant to tell you to ditch the Marantz.  Need to explore ARCAM or Parsound Halo.  

You need to listen to a pair of SALK Song3 Encore's.  Jim Salk sells direct and as a result is able to afford to use the best drivers he can for a given price range.  I heard these at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest last October.  They sell for $6,000 and sounded better than a pair of $60,000 speakers I listened to.  They also sounded significantly better than the Spendor D7's I listened to.  I wish I had been able to listen to these before I purchased mine.  You mentioned Focal.  I have always wondered if Focal is allergic to bass extension.  

I liken it to the car analogy.  I can't afford new stuff in the price range of the used.  A few year old Porsche is better than a new Ford.

A lot of sage wisdom this thread......

my used Triplaner is currently lost in transit..,

we shall all see how the saga plays out..,

I am a used car dealer by trade. Thus it’s no surprise I buy almost everything used. I also see value in a kind knowledgeable retailer. Recently I used Cloud MIS in Framingham,MA to explore cabinets. The owner Brian did such a good job letting me try out different pieces in my own home that I felt I owed him to buy something. I ended up buying a custom burlwood av cabinet. The attention to detail is amazing from the wood quality to the active cooling built it. The best part for me was the delivery. The company brought the cabinet to my home. Installed all my gear in it, they went above and beyond installing an optical cable in the wall from the tv to my dac and many other small touches.  The service to me was well worth foregoing the saving of buying used. It’s tough to pass up great equipment for pennies on the dollar but I mix it up with new and demo units to support my local dealer and show my support. If there’s no more retailers than this hobby really suffers.

Sharing my own experience, I bought new Maggies (3.6) about 10 years ago with some electronics from a dealer.

I love the Maggies, but my amp could not so them justice.  In my journey I finally bought a pair of McIntosh MC501 mono block amps.  In addition to being magic with my speakers, I coukd sell them for what I paid 10 years ago.

The same is true for my C220 tube pre amp.  

What I am trying to say, taking the long way around is that if you like the Mac sound (I know many who do not), the cost to acquire the components is very small if you decide to resell.

Dealers need to make a living, yet those with constrained resources often benefit by buying used one version back from the newest shiny thing.

I think what is missed in this discussion is the discovery. So you decide you like good equipment. You find some nice speakers and match amplification and sources. Are you satisfied? How about separates? Maybe a better/different DAC. Or new cables. Or upgrading your cartridge or turntable or phono preamp? Point is, it’s doubtful you’ll assemble a system from a dealer (or used) and be satisfied. You’ll want to experiment and learn through experimentation what’s synergistic.  No dealer will carry all the lines you’re interested in. In my case, in the last year I bought a new integrated amp and digital server from a dealer and received a decent discount from list. My speakers were bought used. My turntable used, cart and phono pre new. Cables new after being able to demo. I would suggest that unless you live in some retail nirvana or are easily satisfied, buy both new and used and understand that depreciation is what you pay for. 

Thanks all for the responses!
@fstein I do suppose "serious" is a purely subjective term -- perhaps "higher end" is more appropriate. My current setup is no slouch.

As I read these responses, my dealer actually emailed me recalling a conversation we had before the holidays. She’d researched a piece I suggested and proposed a superior alternative from the same brand for same money.
I’m going in on Saturday and we’ll see what happens.

I had the experience of buying a succession of used tube amps on Audiogon and taking them to the local dealer, Deja Vu Audio, for various repairs. They were smart enough to always loan me an amp, an amp that always sounded better than the one I brought in for repair. Finally I broke down and bought the amp they kept loaning me! A demo at a nice price and traded my amp in as partial payment.


As someone said above had I wandered in there at the start of my journey and bought that amp it would have saved a lot of time a good chunk of money and a fair amount of angst! I recently bought my new speakers from them, I got great advice and time to audition and couldn't be happier.

I do still buy stuff used, mostly cables and accessories but any big purchases in the future will be from my dealer.

I almost exclusively purchased used, open box or close out. Some dealers have good used sections or offer great deals on closeouts/demos, which I'm fine purchasing because they're usually in great shape and the tech in 2-channel audio doesn't change that fast. Echo Audio in Portland is great. I also got Triton 2's from Chelsea Audio in Portland for $1200. I've saved thousands of $$ which has allowed me to own stuff I couldn't if I purchased new. The one new purchase I made was Salk Song3's as they're hard to find used and I wanted the cabinets matched to some furniture, and I do like supporting independent businesses. My rough estimate for my 2 channel system would be about $10k new. I paid about $6-7k in my estimation. My 7.1 system would retail for about $9-10k. I've paid about half of that (Emotiva stuff doesn't have great resale value, but they are great deals used and it works great for HT ;) ).

Anyway, that's just been my approach and its worked for me.

bfjones01 I highly recommend the Goldenear Triton Reference speakers. I have had some high end speakers but I think these are a step above. I really can't imagine needing or wanting more. I have McIntosh 452 amp and C50 preamp. Perfect match. 

What you have now is not serious?

A dealer can save you money in the long run by getting what you want the first time. So it can also save you time. A good dealer is priceless. And I do not work for a dealer or have any friends that do, or even work for them. I have personally had this experience.

If you are going to buy used you'd better understand acoustics and electronics very well. Just buying a good deal and jacking it into your system is a hard way to learn if a piece doesn't fit your space. It sounds like you'd be better off buying new if you can try the new piece(s) out in your system.

If you’ve kept a loyal relationship with a dealer, you should get a solid discount. But even for a 1st purchase, since it’s such a large system investment your’re considering, he should work with you. Such a discount (say 20%) helps, but no it doesn’t close the gap to 50-70% off used pieces. But then you need to factor in warranty support; a lot of warranties don’t transfer to the 2nd owner. That can represent significant value on some of this very expensive to repair (and sometimes finicky) equipment. Furthermore a good dealer will help facilitate repairs and may also have a skilled tech that can perform diagnosis and minor repairs/upgrades. And of course some good dealers will give you good $ value for trade-ins to upgrades, or even for consignment sales.

I still do both kinds of buying. I started out buying mostly used, but transitioned into much more buying from my main authorized dealer once I got much more serious about putting together an awesome system. And yes, I do get better sound. My dealer’s expertise & knowledge is superb. And I no longer have so many doubts like: "what if this piece doesn’t sound its best because it was abused by a prior owner", and: "if this suddenly breaks what are my options".

Furthermore, I’ve found that - more often than not - newer gear from the best companies sounds decidedly better than older models. On these hot new models, the used market discount is much less. In many cases it’s a better deal, overall, to buy from a trusted dealer. Most of the typical gear from the early 2000’s (when I started) sounds absolutely awful compared to the gear of today - and the former is much of what you’ll find heavily discounted on the used markets. Of course there are exceptions, and some very fine vintage gear, but good luck finding it and putting together a whole system that works.

In short - if your dealer can put together 2ch sound rooms that blow you away, he’s an asset - work with him!!

I bought my Vault from a local dealer.   Same price as online. No tax   No shipping.  First class guys to do business with.  

When you are buying an item that sells briskly do you really expect firesale prices?   When a dealer has leftover last years model that’s when you should expect a deal .  

Stereo5 you must be from metro Boston . When I lived there I went to all those stores and Spearit Sound was my favorite. Without consulting notes,Leland remembered exactly what I had in my system , what my price range was and always had excellent recommendations if I was looking to upgrade.  Service like that is priceless. Now that I have moved north I have realized just how lucky I was to have all those great retailers in close proximity. The two stores I have access to now just don’t carry gear in my price range as both say there isn’t a market here for it. So bfjones01 consider yourself lucky. I always operated on the principal that if I demoed a piece of gear at a dealer and I liked it ,that is where I purchased it. 

This thread is really about your guilt. Using the dealer's showroom as a discovery tool and then doing something like buying Sasha's used for 15k instead of 30k.

If I were in your shoes, I might buy the Sasha's used for 15k and then go back to the dealer and buy very expensive speaker cables. That way you save money and your salesperson and the dealership are treated with a much smaller sale, but one with a much higher profit margin/sales commission.   

I do both. 

I buy used gear from other enthusiasts, usually at about 50% of the new price.  Overall my experience doing that has been good, but there have been a couple of incidents where I got ripped off or something wasn't as advertised.  I usually get to audition the gear in a more realistic setting closer to my home environment than the dealer's acoustically treated showroom.  If it turns out I don't like it or I upgrade, I can usually sell it for what I paid for it or close. 

I like having the option to try new and different things in my systems.  Of course some dealers will let you try things so you can see how they sound in your system.

I buy some new gear directly from the dealer.  Sometimes in person, sometimes online.  The ones I work with have liberal return policies for the most part.  The biggest plus of doing this is being able to speak to the dealer and pick their brains about how a piece will work with my other components.  I've been talked out of purchases that I thought were a good idea more than once.  I treasure those types of relationships and will go there first at every opportunity.

I buy some used gear (trade-ins, floor models, consignments, old stock, etc.) from dealers.  I've been able to get some great deals that way and often they'll come with some sort of warranty, sometimes even a full warranty.  There are a number of dealers that sell new gear, but also do a brisk business in used equipment.

Sometimes a dealer doesn't have exactly what I'm looking for within my budget and the best option is the used market. 

I don't abuse dealers by going in for a listening session and then buying somewhere else for less.

I understand the reasons for buying new and working with a dealer and those are some of the considerations I make when I make a purchase, but I don't limit myself to one specific way of enjoying this hobby.

the answer is both
establish a relationship, great dealers remember you, your system, musical likes, maybe have heard gear in your room setting up speakers, know the wine you like because you give them a bottle at Thanksgiving....oh well, getting ahead of, or perhaps behind myself...ha

Never use them to demo gear, for example I have yet to hear a Triplaner at my local dealer, so I don’t feel bad buying one used. The Bardo, I have heard and they will get my business on that as well as the HRS base.

Great dealer can save you a lot of tail chasing also...

have fun !!!! you already have a very musical system bringing much joy !!!!!

Spearit sound was the best ... I miss those guys.   

I get 20% off and even more depending on how much I buy. If you pay list look elsewhere.