Speaker wire, interconnects, and skip the power cord change.
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It would be really helpful to see your system… you can put photos under your user ID: your virtual system. This allows us to help. Without us knowing your system it is hard to make educated recommendations.
I have been at this for fifty years. My current ranking of importance would be 1) speaker cables, 2) amplifier power cord, 3) other interconnects, 4) other power cords. But, your components mater… the venue (do you have direct power lines?… etc is important. More info would be helpful. |
Jaonb, et al... To say that all cables sound alike is pure.... choose a derogatory word Case in point: Over the last month I replaced/updated my entire system’s cables, ICs, PCs and speaker from very well known and well reviewed company, PLUS, some 10 yo+ PCs from a boutique company to Nordost knock-offs from China. Like most of us I proceeded cautiously, first buying just a Odin 2 coaxial cable to replace my Pangea Premier XL ($169). The improvement was not subtle, so I ordered Odin 2 XLRs and power cord, similar improvements, so I followed with 2 robust twisted, but unnamed PCs from same company @ ~ $40 (these for my transport and dac/pre outboard PS- much better than the boutique >$400PCs. Enjoying my vastly improved musical enjoyment, it occurred to me that I should also replace the PC to my CorePower 1800 PLC. This time I ordered a Odin Gold, and the system sounded better still. On well recorded discs I often feel transported to the live performance or recording studio. Sharing this experience with a fellow ’phile, he noted the Odin Gold might not be heavy enough gauge for the PLC and recommended a Chinese PC that is available from Amazon; 10ga single crystal copper, very high quality Rhodium plated plug 1.5m just $45 with 20% discount, shipped in 2 days, compared to the ~ 3 weeks from China!. I decided to try it on the dac/pre PS- absolutely no comparison, so Saturday I ordered another for my transport, which is scheduled to arrive today On entry level kit one may not notice much, but if your system, sans cables, is $3K +, Im confident you will be highly rewarded
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I had your VIRTUAL DYNAMICS POWER ONE power cords in a prior system about 15 years ago. I was disappointed with them and thankful to ditch them in favour of significant upgrades for two reasons : - they were bulky and overly stiff and comparatively hard to position in an audio rack - performance wise, I found them to sound like crap. = Not one of my finer moments in purchases FWIW: I have an entire loom of CARDAS CLEAR / CARDAS GOLDEN REFERENCE power cords that smokes them …. Not even close. And yes, it is also a full loom array of CARDAS CLEAR XLR/RCA ICs and digital IC with the final speaker cable upgrade in process. BUT ,,,,and it’s a big “BUT” ,,,, the CARDAS are clear winners by a long shot with the burden of a lot more money spent (…worth every dime IMO …)
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I would start off with power cords, then Speaker and IC’s. |
I myself did speakers first, IC next, Power cords last. In theory, Power cords should be first, IC next, speakers last, but felt my power conditioner did good enough job. I also felt that if the cords after the power cords were not up to snuff, then I wouldn't actually hear any improvement from power cord upgrades.
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@ghdprentice had a quick question.. How do I update my system photos.. I got some new ones, and I can't seem to figure out how to add them.. Thanks.. |
It’s amazing cable companies even exist since all cables sound the same… Good Grief. Maybe many cannot hear the difference, too stubborn to want to accept they do or maybe using an old receiver from the 70’s with some Bose 301’s and even Michael Fremer could not either. Hahaha… I would start with room treatment first if your space allows, then IC’s, Speaker Cables, then Power Cords. Power Cords can make as much of a difference as any other cable location, but if you’re not on dedicated circuits, respectable outlets/receptacles with good contact area then you may not hear the difference at first. You don’t have to spend a lot of money on receptacles as some Hubbell hospital grade outlets are a good place to start.
As always, trust your ears. |
@adg101 - Placebo and expectation bias cannot be completely ignored. I do not have the ultimate system, setup, etc., and I have heard differences in my system from cable changes. So far it's been limited to analog interconnects (upgraded twice with positive results both times) and some power cords (mixed results) for me, I have not heard a difference with digital cables and I'm almost happy to avoid another rabbit hole. I have not played much with speaker cables in my current system because I have a splitter as my speakers are shared between my HT and stereo rigs so I've just chosen to stay with what I have. I did do the classic hardware store wire vs. $2k Nordost speaker cables using a Pathos Logos amplifier and $30k Focal speakers. There was a difference, but nothing even close to justifying the increased cost. I also find that I only really appreciate changes in my system after I've spent a lot of time listening to the current setup and then can almost always identify a difference (or not) pretty quickly. Doing A/B comparisons rely on muscle memory and never seem to be very definitive to me. @malbor - I'm not sure that your cables would be expected to degrade over time, but I'm sure there's always something bigger and better out there. When I did my upgrades I started with power cords because the ones of interest were very affordable/cheap and after having a good experience I tried an entry level interconnect. That experience led me to max out my budget (i.e. what I was willing to spend) on another cable farther up the line which also yielded good results. I tried a digital cable from the same company and heard nothing, so just let it go. I did try a more expensive PC on my DAC because I found one used that was of interested and didn't hear anything different that I could definitively point out. My advice would be to not overthink it. There's almost infinite options, so you have to be intentional about going down a financial rabbit hole (unless that's what you want to do). |
If you think cables are the limiting factor in your system you are always wrong. Maybe if you are using Dollar store wire or a really badly designed wire but every other time no. No need to see system photos to know that. The system photos may help for upgrade suggestions. Most onus have things we can upgrade. Some people are more susceptible to suggestion. They make good cable customers. Is a new cable going to change your frequency response? No, not unless designed wrong. Will it change the distortion? No, never. Cables are linear devices. They don't affect distortion at least for analog. If you have a digital problem get a new DAC. Can they reduce noise? Yes if the ones you have are poor. Are they poor? Do you hear electrical noise? No, then cable will not matter. |
+1 ghdprentice for letting us know what is in your system. Agree with most that power cords is where I’d start, but it depends on the quality of the components. If your components use quality power supplies and your line isn’t that dirty (or you are using a quality power conditioner or regenerator) then power cables are the best investment. Otherwise, speaker or interconnects would be where I would focus. |
tweak1 I'm surprised you haven't been pilloried for positive comments re Chinese clone cables on this site. I too tried Odin 2 and Cardas Clear Light cables and had the same reaction as you, great value cables beating anything I had heard costing. 20 x the price. I even took the Cardas cables to a dealer friend and we tested them against the real thing, neither of us could tell the difference and neither could any of his sales staff. I would have liked to do the same with the Odin 2s but don't know anyone who can afford the real thing. |
@blisshifi Power cords are NOT what most here who expressed a clear opinion said. They said speaker leads. And two here said listening impressions must be discounted if they are not done blind. Make that three...
@mazian 'I don't know anyone who can afford the real thing;' Plenty here CAN afford it. It's just that they don't wish to. |
@clearthinker Thank you for the correction. I mixed up a word in the response which made a big difference in interpretation. I meant to say “Agree with those” not “Agree with most”. My suggestion still stands, as quality of power delivery is the foundation of any system. Crappy power in is crappy sound out. I’m at a stage now where changing out power cords make bigger differences than the other cables, so go figure. |
My dealer came to my house and had me listen to 4 tracks (my picks) with my Kimber KS1121 interconnects (balanced) and Shunyata venom speaker wire. then replaced all with Transparent wire. Listening to the same 4 tracks, I noticed enough improvement in SQ that I bought the set. Since then I have been surprised at the overall imporvemnt in SQ with other familiar recordings. I have a pretty revealing system (ARC, Wilson, Linn, Moon). Not trying to start "Cable wars" just sharing my experience. |
@malbor , skip the cables and spend the money on better equipment. |
+1 @mijostyn
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@malbor - Talk to these guys* about your desires/requirements/budget constraints and they’ll help you out. You can audition cables in your system/room, with your own ears and sensibilities, for a fraction of final costs. Whatever the rental fees, from their lending library; they’ll be deducted from the purchase price. In my system, I’ve been using Kimber (Select 1130 and 1030), Synergistic Research (Tesla Apex, Analog Tricon, a couple A/C Master Couplers w/MPCs), Zu Cable(I still love their Mother PC) and Analysis Plus (Big Silver Oval speaker cable) for quite a while, without feeling need to change anything, far as they are concerned. Listened to a variety of cables on trial basis, for the performance I desired, then: bought the above new (from the same guys) Those companies are top of the heap, regarding quality and sound/presentation (to my ears, anyway). *https://www.usedcable.com/contacts They’ve stuff in every price range. ie: https://www.usedcable.com/interconnect-cables.html https://www.usedcable.com/speaker-cables.html https://www.usedcable.com/power-cables.html
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@jemmer01 what was the length of your speaker cables? also, what pre/amp/spkrs do you have? |
Power cords, Interconnects, then speaker cables is my recommendation. Try to get a full loom going if you can swing it. (Avoid "Cable Stew" of all different mixed/matched brand names/types. Though I admittedly have a couple of different PC’s in my setup at the current time.) Used Cables on the ’net are good folks, and I highly recommend them. |
Ever notice how the cable deniers almost never have their systems listed? Ever wonder why that is? @theaudioamp , yes it makes sense. If you run with the premise that cables DO make a difference (and I can assure you they do in my system. It’s easily demonstrable....), matching manufacturers that take the time to R&D their products and design them to work well with each other makes perfect sense. If you don’t agree, fine, but there’s a reason companies have different levels of cables. And it’s not necessarily because the more expensive ones are prettier. It’s because they work well and sound good together. Happy listening!
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No I did not notice, because I go on the intelligence of their words. However, now that you mention it, have you ever noticed that cable pushers always have a ton of expensive equipment in a nasty (by acoustical standards) room. I guess they have no money left to spend on what is important?
I also did notice that you did not provide any reasoning why a particular vendors cables would work better with other cables from the same vendor. Your answer was non answer. Please explain in detail, using a written example if possible. |
@theaudioamp - I don't think that that it's necessarily expected that the best sound will be the result when using cables from a single manufacturer. I think it's reasonable to expect that a cable manufacturer would do their R&D with all of their products with the potential benefit of some synergy across their lineup. Because they are using different components results will vary. If the manufacturer listens to their products as part of the development process and you believe that cables have a signature sound, it makes sense that you are likely to prefer the same signature sound across your system. Another way to to say it is that I wouldn't assume that a system with all matching cables will sound better than one that doesn't, but I do think that a listener is likely to reach a pleasing result if they stick with a single company once they determine that they appreciate their signature sound. |
Shame you missed the "work in progress" part of the description of my room. ;) "Nasty" LOL. I don’t care what you buy. Really don’t. That’s the reason I didn’t mention a specific manufacturer. You’re struggling to come up with some kind of justification for your viewpoint. I think you’re in over your head, and you know it. Buy whatever you want. Don't buy whatever you want. Just might want to dial down the rhetoric a bit. Happy listening!
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Struggle? You are projecting @coralkong |
@theaudioamp , I just uploaded a new pic I took about 10 mins ago. Will post more as they filter in on my email. I'm not sure you can see the SR HFT's I have all over the place in the room, but I assure you, they're in there. :) Let me know when it meets your approval. Not sure I understand the "projecting" comment, but sure, if you say so. I still think PC's, interconnects and then speaker cables. Sometimes a change in cable can be rather startling. Happy Listening!
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Do yourself a favor and get rid of those worthless HFTs. I mean that seriously You are already on the right path with panels, but you have to fix your big issue of a window on one side and a diffuser (media storage) on the other. Return the HFTs and built something you can insert into the window opening for listening so you can match the two sides. A curtain will never be thick/heavy enough to do it. |
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