I have been listening to my MG IIIa's since 1988. Peter Gunn generously advised me to screw as much natural wood to the back of the particle board frames as possible to absorb vibration and he shared the schematic for his crossover. I installed 36' of 2"x3" studs per speaker and built his crossover ($900 in parts). Major improvements.
Recently, Peter advised me to place a screen behind my listening position to enhance bass response. I constructed a frame to hold a 2'x4' piece of plywood covered with 2" of Rockwool that is mounted horizontally 34" from the floor and another piece of 2'x4' plywood covered in Rockwool that hangs over the listening area at a 30 degree angle. I had been using an 18" sub with a low pass of 35hz. The sub is no longer necessary, unless you want sub 25hz support. The over all sound is cleaner without the sub. The overhanging panel helps eliminate sound bouncing from the ceiling. It's like having a folded horn located behind you.
My room is 35'x25'x14' (tray ceiling). I installed a diffuser on the middle of the front wall and the sound stage bloomed. The Maggies are powered by a Devialet 220. The Devialet replaced a Pass Labs 250.5. The amp is connected to the speakers via sixteen 5' 0 AWG copper cables.
I highly recommend you consult Peter Gunn and consider buying one of his modified 1.6 QR's. Unfortunately, Peter does not modified the bigger models due to shipping constraints.
An Audiogon poster, b4icu, recommended the speaker cables. Shocking results as I added one cable at a time.
I have had many box speakers. They sound good, but they don't have the magic.
Good luck.
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Whenever I have listened to 3.6’s, I did not feel the need for a subwoofer. I would consider matching 3.7’s with a set of Schiit Tyr’s.
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There are a few things I could tell you. See if you can find a place to audition before you purchase. I've owned several models, 2.5R's up to 20.1's, one thing I would say is none of them were lacking in bass. Maggie's have a different take on bass, fast and natural. I've never used a sub, the natural sound is part of what makes them what they are. You didn't mention a budget, $2500 should get you a good deal on a pair of used 3.6's....
Enjoy the Music
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As with all speakers, the room matters, so I convey my experience in that light. My room is 22 x 28 x 9 with a few departures from its otherwise rectangular shape. I started with SMGa. They were inexpensive and I followed all of the recommendations for placement and power, using no solid state amp below 100 wpc. They sounded great, but the sweet spot was very small, both laterally and vertically. Still, they sounded amazing with the right alignments. Then, just for fun, I connected an old tube amp, about 60 wpc. It blew me away. The sweet spot wasn’t larger, but the listening enjoyment increased. I had to find bigger Maggies. Along came 1.6QR, and with them everything that size brings, extended highs and lows, much bigger sweet spot, and the soundstage grew tremendously. I used a mix of tube amps from 50 wpc up to Classe 500 wpc, and enjoyed every one of them. Had not tried using a sub, and as a longtime bass player, didn’t feel that I was missing low end. REW measurements did confirm a hard falloff below 40 Hz. But bigger is better, and I picked up a pair of 3.6R from one of the best Maggie dealers in the USA. I’d hesitate to say this is the end of the line, as 20.somethings would appeal at the right price, but aside from continuing to play with amplifier variations, these speakers delight me every time I listen. I use either a Convergent SL-1 or ARC SP3a1 preamp into vintage Lux or Sony solid state power amps, or any of my higher powered tube amps from Eico, VTL, or Dynaco. And I’ve added a tiny Totem Storm sub to supplement bass below 40 Hz.
The comments made by others regarding soundstage, weakness in bass, power hungry, etc, have not been my experience at all. Placement dictates the soundstage and natural bass, and the volume you wish to play dictates the power needs. I’m good in the mid 80 db range with peaks touching 90. If you want to play Maggies at 100 db, then you need lots of power.
My alternate system in the same room is Altec 604-8G and low powered tube amps. The Altecs are fun with a remarkable ability to make lesser quality recordings sound decent, much like a soft focus filter does for aging actors.
I haven’t heard LRS yet, but based on the experience of others, you may want the larger Maggies for your room. 1.7 at the very least. And they will shine with your Aavik.
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Just out of curiosity I’m listing a pair of Maggie’s that I used for maybe three weeks then put into original boxes as I moved overseas. Selling for $850.
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I don't know if I'm missing something or am acoustically challenged, however, I'm very successfully driving a pair of LRS speakers with a 47 watt amp. It's Linear Tube Audio's Z40 Integrated ZOTL tube amp.
The amp speaker combination works just, absolutely beautifully. Sound stage as wide as I want it by just subtly altering the speaker's toe-in or toe-out.
As the LTA amp is the quietest I've heard, you can hear everything. Nothing is muffled as the LRS keeps up with rapidly changing notes. So many times with studio recordings I've had for years, you can hear voices in the background on the run out grooves that I've never noticed before.
BTW: I'm talking vinyl only here.
Zero distortion as I turn up the volume. The LTA's volume goes to 100. My system is in a very large room and I can totally fill the room with sound by going no louder that 50 to 55 on the volume control.
What am I missing that a 300W+ amp is supposed to deliver, or is it just because I have the smaller LRS's ... ??
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I have had Magnepan MGIIIa speaker for years. I biamp them with a pair of bryston 3Bs. They are light on bass, but I really do not car about strong bass. The bass they have is very clear and not muddy. You need patience in moving them around..I measured carefully to get them the same distance from the back walls and they work great
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@yesiam_a_pirate "If you want to use them for home theater you will be sorely disappointed."
Only if you count the EPM (explosions per minute). I have an all-planar 7.0 system with plenty of bass: 6 Magnepan MMW, 2 DWM bass panels and a Quad 2905 centre. I hear every sigh of dialogue and every bass slam - just not enough of the latter to loosen the screws in the walls. Planars forever!!
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@helomech Funny you should say this. Some years ago I has 12s....the predecessor to the .7. I thought they were the sleeper of the line. I moved to 1.7...and while i thought they WERE better, the difference wasn't earth shaking.
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"Also, Maggies really perform best with high current, linear-power-supply class AB amplifiers. Unfortunately, most class D amps, regardless of power/watts spec, do not possess the current capability necessary to “wake” them up."
I must disagree with this statement. I’ve had Maggies in one iteration or another for the past 25 yrs. I’ve always driven them with AB amps thinking this conventional "wisdom" was true. It wasn’t till I bought a pair of PS Audio M700 mono blocks that I knew what my Maggies could really sound like. They drive my 1.7i with such ease. Even listening at low levels, the detail is still amazing. These amps do not sound cold or hard edged. Quite the opposite in fact. Nor do they fall apart at higher listening levels. My point is don’t underestimate class D amps. They can be quite capable of driving challenging speakers. So, there’s my 0.2 cents.
P.S: Love my Maggies! Hope you will too, arafiq.
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The Magnepan 0.7 has the best balance and bass dynamics of all the models I’ve heard. Seems the “pro” reviewers agree with regard to the bass. I owned the 1.7is previously and could not get along with them. Other than outright bass extension (not to be confused with bass output) and loudness capability, I find the 0.7 is the better speaker. The 0.7 has become the “forgotten” Maggie as of late, which is ironic considering it is arguably the best Magnepan, and one of the most musical speakers I’ve encountered in all my years in this hobby. Even though it’s a 2-way design, the midrange is to die for, and is, I feel, superior to that of the 1.7is. Coming from Harbeths, I think you will better acclimate to the midrange presence of the 0.7 vs the 1.7i.
Also, Maggies really perform best with high current, linear-power-supply class AB amplifiers. Unfortunately, most class D amps, regardless of power/watts spec, do not possess the current capability necessary to “wake” them up. Your Aavik may very well be an exception, but I figure that should be mentioned, just in case you find yourself underwhelmed with the pairing.
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Adding a sub or two to almost any planar will result in improvements in a couple of ways. Most importantly, relieved of reproducing bass, the Maggie "woofers" will now reproduce the midrange in a noticeably improved manner. The speaker will also play louder, with less strain and distortion. And if you employ a high pass filter in front of the power amp (removing low frequencies from the input signal) the amp itself will produce less distortion, and more power will be available for the midrange frequencies.
The problem is---as Wendell Diller has been saying for decades---that monopole subs simply do not blend well with dipole loudspeakers (there are technical reasons why that is so). Quad owners have been trying since the 1950’s, with no success. The Finnish company Gradient introduced an open baffle/dipole sub for both the original Quad (aka 57) and the 63, sometime in the 80’s iirc. Robert E. Greene wrote a TAS review of the 57 model after auditioning it with his Quads. The Gradient was well designed, but not terribly well constructed, leaving a lot of potential unrealized.
Once again, Danny Richie to the rescue ;-) . Danny had already designed and was selling an open baffle/dipole woofer/sub (sold only as a DIY kit, the market he targets), when he heard about a new servo-feedback sub being offered by another company located in Texas: Rythmik Audio. Danny and Rythmik designer/owner Brian Ding put their big brains together and came up with the world’s only servo-feedback, open baffle, dipole sub/woofer in the world. THE sub for any and all dipole loudspeakers, including of course Maggies. Availlable only as a DIY kit, but there are a couple of pro woodworkers making the required ob/dipole "frame" in flat pack form. Details available on the GR Research website.
If you think Danny Richie only modifies the designs of others, you are mistaken. He also offers his own loudspeakers, long available (since 1995) only as DIY kits, but some models now offered fully assembled and finished. To see Danny’s ultimate offering, check out the virtual system of Audiogon member "jaytor", which includes the 3-woofer version of the OB/Dipole Sub, as well as a tall line source loudspeaker using multiple NEO-3 and NEO-10 planar-magnetic drivers.
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My old 1.7s were well driven by Canary Tube monoblock amps putting out about 140 wpc ultralinear and 95 in pentode, I think. The crossovers are cheap Chinese junk. They sound infinitely better after being rebuilt. They did not sound at their best till I added a pair of subwoofers.
Maggie's like current but they sing well with the right tube amp.
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Every day, Paul McGowan answers questions from people via video. Then every day a bunch of internet "engineers" proceed to tell him why he's wrong.
This thread reminds me of that.
How did Magnepan ever survive?
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+1 @jjss49
I have no doubt that Dannie Richie is very good at what he does. But at the end of the day it’s not that difficult to play monday morning quarterback. I have a lot more respect for folks who design, build, and sell their own speakers -- quirks, warts and all. I understand that it’s part of his business model but I have to admit that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when he talks trash about other manufacturers. There has to be a better and more classy way to run his business without denigrating others’ creations. Oh well ...
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@yesiam_a_pirate
Don't be a dick and wring him out then shop for used ones. That's manifestly selfish and unfair.
Thank you for chiming in. My room is quite well treated so I'm hoping that will not be an issue with the Magnepans. But I'm open to add more if needed.
I totally agree with your comment regarding supporting retailers and dealers. I practice this myself as much as possible. Having said that, this is an audio form and we're all adults here. We should let people decide what's best for them and leave any moral posturing at the door. Just my 2 cents. Hope you don't mind.
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@mijostyn I appreciate the offer. I will contact you once I get the speakers -- most likely around June of this year. Thank you!
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@bdp24
i sure did watch that d-r video, as well as others... thank you
i wonder what danny could do with a set of eminent's in his hands!!?? 😂
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@arafiq , if you have problems with set up feel free to message me.
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So @jjss49, did you watch the video? I’m guessing not.
Danny Richie is not the only one who has taken a close look at the Magneplanar’s and done some serious modifying. Members of The Magnepan Group on the Planar Speaker Asylum have gone much further than Richie, who changed only the crossover and speaker wire connectors (everybody knows the Magnepan connectors are junk. I replaced the stock ones on my Tympani T-IVa with Cardas binding posts, and bypassed the fuse blocks, very common in the DIY speaker community.).
Bruce Thigpen of Eminent Technology was impressed with the early Maggies, but was not fond of the single-ended design of the drivers. So he took Jim Winey’s basic design and set out to improve on it. His LFT drivers are all push-pull, and constructed quite a bit better than the Maggie diaphragms (imo), except for the wonderful Magnepan ribbon tweeter. Whereas Maggies have conductive wire glued onto the Mylar (the wire causing the Mylar to move in response to the signal), a vapor-deposited conductive film is applied to the Mylar of the LFT’s, the film then chemically-etched away in all areas except for the grids of conductive traces. The result is lower moving mass drivers.
There are longtime Tympani owners who have replaced the midrange driver in the T-IV and T-IVa with multiple NEO drivers (also a planar-magnetic), creating a line source with them. Another "mod" (not really) is to brace the Tympani panels to the wall behind them, which increases bass output and clarity (those big panels can really move when pumping out low frequencies). For single-panel Maggies the Mye stands are a must.
And then there is "Peter Gunn" (a pseudonym) who takes the Maggie drivers out of the stock MDF frames and installs them in solid hardwood frames, as well as completely redoing the crossover. I’ve never heard a pair, and his work is highly controversial. Danny Richie’s crossover is designed in accordance with well-established engineering principles, nothing radical at all.
It’s been a long time since Jim Winey did any design work at Magnepan, and I have no idea of Wendell Diller’s engineering education and background (his longtime position at Magnepan has been head of marketing). I eagerly await his upcoming dipole woofer system, a great idea that has already been put into production at Eminent Technology. The LFT-8c differs from the -8b only in having a dipole woofer (the 8c) in place of the monopole (the 8b), as well as power for the woofers and DSP for signal management (as will the Magnepan dipole woofer).
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sorry but i snorted my morning coffee through my nose... laughed so hard at the earlier post
omg -- we idiots have all been listening to complete crap before dannie richie came along, and made all walks of speakers listenable -- no doubt that jim winey and wendell diller have been lost souls with cotton balls in their ears for 40+ years - if they only had mister speaker savior danny r as a childhood mentor 🤣😂😁
i had to get that lick in... no offense to @bdp24 -- but this danny richie stuff gets me going... so never mind me, back to your regular programming...
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A few things from a many Maggies owner since 1977:
There is a conspiracy in White Bear Lake MN. Audio Research guys collaborate with Magnapan guys in the depths of winter when there's nothing left to do. therefore; one must drive a Maggie with a pair of ARC tube amps. It's the alchemists law. :)
Maggies will bend your perception of sound. Maybe literally- they are so very different that there aren't words. You will either love them or be selling them in a few months.
If you like acoustic music there is a transcendental event as you listen to it on a properly placed set of Maggies. If you like to rock out with your socks out buy something else. They don't have the capability to replicate the big speaker distortion gear Uncle Ted or Neil Young like to play through. If you want to use them for home theater you will be sorely disappointed.
A properly treated listening room, proper placement with TUBE amplification and lots of watts in reserve will change your HiFi arc. For the better. Every time.
One last thing: Try them at home before you buy them. A good retailer will allow a qualified buyer to do this, Also, treat your retailer right. He needs to make a fair profit on them so he can bring you the atelier services you are seeking. Don't be a dick and wring him out then shop for used ones. That's manifestly selfish and unfair. Moreover it will help eliminate retailers who in this hobby are essential. (no I'm not a dealer or broker. Just a realist) We are loosing the great enthusiast old school retailers. They are going broke while selling some of the best knowledge, experience and gear out there. Support them.
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I’ve loved Maggies since the first time I heard the Tympani T-I in 1972. I bought a pair that year, bi-amping them with ARC amplifiers. I later owned a pair of T-Id’s, and now have T-IVa’s (using a First Watt B4 crossover in place of the stock one).
I have heard the MG1.7’s and didn’t think much of them. I compared that model with the Eminent Technology LFT-8b (like the Maggies a planar-magnetic, but with a dynamic driver for 180Hz down), which I found to be considerably more to my liking (I bought a pair). Some guys prefer the LFT-8b ($3200/pr) to the MG3.7i ($8000/pr), which I have not heard. Speaking of the 3.7i, here is a video made by Danny Richie of GR Research regarding a pair of that model sent to him for evaluation and possible upgrading:
https://youtu.be/_bpDP0jxj4k
Even if you don’t agree with Danny’s opinions of the 3.7i, and the "fixes" he designed for it, the video should be of interest to anyone considering a Maggie purchase. I just checked the video post, and it is for some reason starting about 2/3rd’s of the way through it. Just click on the far left end of the red line and the video will play from the beginning. The comments in response to the video are also worth reading.
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As enticing as the 3.7 model is, I feel it’s prudent to stick with 1.7i for now. I have no doubt that the 3.7 is possibly the sweet spot in the Magnepan lineup. But considering that I’m only trying to explore the Magnepan sound signature at this time without a serious $$ commitment, 1.7 is the more suitable entry point for me. If I like what I hear, and knowing myself, I have no doubt that I will be moving up the chain soon after.
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@swede58
there is a subtle but definitely noticeable difference as i heard them ... non i sounds leaner through lower register of piano and male voice... mostly in the midbass/upper bass is the impression i get -- both are limited in true bottom octave - but the i has more ’bloom’ around bowed or plucked acoustic bass for instance
but not so much that amp choice, sub support and placement cannot bridge the tonal gap between the two i believe
@arafiq
knowing you through this forum, i would definitely start with 1.7i over 3.7i you can always go to 3.7i later if you fall in love with what maggies do -- 1.7i much less expensive, less imposing in the room, and if you get light colored cloth they are quite ’architectural’ and some think even pretty standing there - 1.7i set up right driven right will definitely give you the true maggie excellence and sonic experience from which to assess next steps (if any) - but be sure to have at least one rel sub to support the bottom end
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-- i versions imo add a noticeable degree of warmth and weight to the sound that my ears very much appreciate
@jjss49 How big would you say the difference in bass is between the 3.7 and 3.7i?
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@zgas-music I have a pair of Hegel H30s. Don't think power will be an issue. 🤣
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@arafiq , I have set up somewhere around 10 pairs of Magneplanars and own Tympany 3s way back. The sweet spot in the line is the 3.7i. It has significantly better performance than the lower models making it the best value. The 20.7 is by all means a better loudspeaker but it is not twice as good.
Your room and intended set up are fine. You only need three feet from the wall. Tweeters should always be to the inside. I do not know where you heard they do not image. That is poppycock. Their image is larger more lifelike than point source speakers. It is crucial that you deaden the wall behind the speakers. I use 4" acoustic tile corner to the inside edge of the speaker, floor to the top of the speaker. Maggies are dipoles and this is much different and in ways easier than box speakers.
Maggies (3.7is) make bass down to about 40 Hz realistically. You do not need subs with them unless you really care about that bottom octave. You clean up the mid bass a little if you use subs. If you do not listen at high volumes I would stay away from subs. Doing subs correctly requires digital signal processing which many do not want to get into. Doing subs incorrectly is much worse than no subs at all.
I own SoundLabs speakers. They are better than Maggies but harder to drive. It can't just be a powerful amp, it has to be the right powerful amp. Parasound JC 1+ and Atma Sphere MA 2s are known performers. You are usually looking for a huge Class A bruiser. The smallest model is about twice as expensive as the 3.7i and IMHO subwoofers and DSP are now mandatory for the best performance, more than tripling the expense.
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@troidelover1499, you might take a look at the forum on the PS Audio site. There are many threads about Maggies. They seem to have a good return policy and have often had fantastic trade-in discounts. I've never owned one of their amps so I can't comment on their "synergy" with Maggies, but lots of people love them.
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I've owned the Magnepan 1.7i's for a year. I highly recommend them. Upgrading the fuses and tweeter attenuator to .999 silver parts had a dramatic improvement on sound quality. Tearing the entire crossover and magnetic steel binding post out and putting in the GR-Research crossover upgrade would be the ultimate quality you could possibly get out of a Magnepan speaker.
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This discussion is good for me too as I am considering the same thing. I am thinking about getting a pair of .7 or 1.7 and then using a PS Audio BHK 250 hybrid power amp to drive them. I am wondering if anyone here has this same combo, or a BHK 250 driving any Magnepan speaker. I think the wife will be OK with these smaller panels in our room.
I would love hear input on whether the BHK amp is good sounding and can supply enough juice for the speakers. I have been really impressed watching the Youtube vids on the amp and the designer Baskom King who evidently also has recently passed away. Still the reviews on the BHK250 seem to be really good.
I will also mention here that I posted the same question in the amplifier/preamp section, hope that is OK.
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+1 @jjss49
The level of enthusiasm by Magnepan owners is commendable for sure. You can just sense how passionate they are about their speakers and how it connects them with the music first and foremost. Love it!
I have thought about the 3.7s but I think 1.7 is a good introduction to the world of Maggies. I don't know how the wife will react if she walks in and sees the massive 3.7s in the same spot as my Joseph Audios. I think 1.7s can act as the canary in the coal mine so to speak, lol!
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+1 @bigtwin on the Sound Lab speakers. After electrostats you’ll never go back. You can find them used (I did) but not all that often. My wife, after hearing our 80 inch M1s thanked me for getting them. Bring lots of power…
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I've owned Maggies on and off for about thirty years, and as others have said they have a sound like no other. I think all the standard advice applies: more power helps, work with the room, consider a couple subs (I use a pair of small RELs), find the sweet spot. They DO take some time to find the right placement; I ended up with more toe-in in my current room than I would have thought. I have the 1.7i and they're lovely. It's not hard in the Northeast to find used Maggies since lots of people bring them home and realize they're not a good fit in their living room.
Maggies are noted for acoustic, voice/choral, folk, jazz, etc, but they can sound fine with bigger sounds. One thing people don't talk about enough: if you have more than a few drams of whisky or glasses of wine, and you crank up something that's got a big groove, it's enormous fun to turn off the lights, stand between the speakers, and dance around that space. It's like you're in the middle of a cosmic nebula of sound, a cocoon of sonic pleasure. Maybe "Sneakin' Sally Through the Alley" or "I Wish" or "Hey Pocky Way" or some Little Feat. I wish I didn't have to work tomorrow...
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I've read all the posts here and the statement that rings most true is from:
secretguy: As a long time Maggie user, I can say that much of what is said about them, at best, exaggerates their supposed "weaknesses".
Based on the prices of your other speakers, I'd recommend the 3.7i's. Smaller models are great, but your room is more than ample. Mine are in a room that is 13 x 16 and located 4 feet off the front wall on the narrow end with the back of the room open to the next level. Quality power is key. Other comments say they have less interaction with side walls which I've found to be very true - the imaging I've attained is fabulous and extends beyond the outer walls - and mine are within a foot of either side wall! As with any speaker, placement is key with reasonable treatments for the room. I run a sub and integrated properly quite literally "disappears". Mods? Decide that once you've used them a while, I've never tried any and really don't want to mess with the unbelievable sound I am getting. I've heard many quality systems and have never been disappointed in what I've put together. Have fun - I'd go for it!
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i think one of the most instructive things about this thread of @arafiq’s is the sheer number of magnepan supporters who have chimed in with their enthusiasm and suggestions for proper use ... owners old and new, of maggies old and new, the vast majority expressing their delight
in a forum where there are usually vastly differing opinions, widely varying suggestions, frequently diametrically opposite recommendations (topping d90 dac vs mhdt tubed dac, for instance, in another current thread, lol)... the sheer number of happy owners and supporters standing to be counted, many of whom are long tenured yet rarely post, speaks amply of the quality and value of this line of speakers 👍
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I have a pair of .7’s, wanted to try their sound. Very nice with my Threshold SA/4e or my S500II. Small room-good sound. 14 X 14 feet-took some placement time and room treatment (LEGO)! Ha!
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I sold them in my shop when they were new and still have my Tympani I-C’s working perfectly.
If you set them up properly IN YOUR ROOM, you will never hear a more accurate speaker. ARC gear makes them sing, but whatever you like is probably going to be OK. I DO suggest an ARC pre-amp, and a NEW one is not required. I still use my SP-6B and have no issues with it.
Welcome to the world of accurate music reproduction (yes, I am very biased!)
SUGGESTION: Try "Diamonds and Rust" for a nice demo...
Cheers!
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I owned two maggies in the past the last one was the Manepan IIIa. They do require a powerful amp that is very stable all the way to 2 ohms to make them sing properly. Once they are set up properly you'll be rewarded with a wide and deep soundstage that goes beyond the side and front walls. What I love about them is you can practically place them very close to the side wall and it won't affect the soundstage given that you give it ample space from the front wall to breathe properly.
The only minor pet peeve I have with them is that if you move your head from your optimal listening position in your listening chair the soundstage tends to collapse. Other than that these are excellent speakers as long as you feed them with proper ancillary equipment.
Anyway, a friend just bought a brand new 20.7 model that he waited patiently for at least 3 months before it was delivered to him. I was floored by how good they are when I listen to them for the very first time. The very first thing I noticed was their uncanny ability to disappear in the listening room and if you give it more power the whole listening room disappears that's how good these speakers are.
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I really appreciate the input and feedback from everyone. This is exactly the kind of input I was hoping for. It will be difficult for me to address and thank each one of you individually but please know that I really appreciate the detailed, high quality responses. Regardless of the outcome, the advice to try it in my own system is on point!
I think buying a used 1.7i is the right path for me at this time. If the sound appeals to me then perhaps I can think about upgrading in the future. If not, as mentioned earlier, it should not be difficult to resell it without incurring a major loss.
Also, thank you for the placement tips. Based on what I'm hearing I have enough amplification and room to allow the Maggies to shine. I will, of course, tweak with placement as that's part of the fun anyways. Unfortunately, I ended up selling my REL subs to make way for another purchase. I might have to buy another pair some time in the future, but only if I decide to stick with the Maggies. The Aavik and Joseph Audio combo really made the subs redundant, but who knows I might get one in the future.
As someone with cats in the house, I am a bit concerned of the damage they can cause. I usually keep them out of the media room but it's impossible to always keep an eye on them. My fear is that they might scratch and tear the front fabric. Not sure how costly it will be to replace the fabric just in case.
Lastly, I looked at the Soundlabs suggestion by another poster. Definitely looks like a higher-end and possibly better built version of the Maggies. But they are a bit outside of my budget (new) at the moment. Plus, I don't see anything in the used market. But it's good to know that an alternative exists.
I will be on the lookout for a used 1.7i pair to show up in the local market (Dallas, TX). Kinda weary of buying it unheard from the online markets.
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a few additional comments on what has been said
I have owned 3 sets of Maggies and love them dearly. Properly set up, Maggies have bass, but a subwoofer is always a good idea. Cross it over around 80 Hz. If you think of your walls as mirrorr, you will get the idea: angle the maggies toward the listener, the space between them 8 feet apart in your room. Try to angle the speakers 30 - 45 degrees to the back wall and about 2 - 3 feet out. The idea is to bounce the back wave off the back wall and onto the side wall, where it bounces again, lengthening the path of the back wave before it gets to the listener. Also the inevitable cancellation that wil occur around the sides of the speaker is upset by the differing distance from the speaker edges to the back wall, and minimized (due to the angleing of the speaker to the back wal). I recommend the 1.7i as your first pair.
@boomerbillone’s description above is terrific, very well said
other points
-- sub integration, if you use rel’s and their high level connection, is not any more difficult than integrating them with any other serious speaker - and in absolute terms, not hard, but you have some patience and rigor in your approach - current rels certainly have the speed to keep up with the maggies
-- better jumper and fuse bypass are easy and make a small but noticeable difference... outboard crossovers usually aren’t worth it, just buy a better maggie!...
-- i versions imo add a noticeable degree of warmth and weight to the sound that my ears very much appreciate
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DWM bass panels use magnets on BOTH sides of the vibrating mylar film. This results in the very linear push-pull effect, which gives minimum distortion. The 20 series does that too for the bass panels IIRC. That’s why the best panel bass is qualitatively better than, and qualitatively different from, bass from enclosed speakers.
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I found 20.1s right here on Audiogon for $5,500 (originally $12,500) and snatched them up instantly. As others have said, add a sub if you want some real bass slam because Maggies don't do that, but they do reproduce bass well. I don't have them away from a sidewall because I don't think that matters, but I do have them 3 feet out from the back wall. As far as imaging, it's my opinion that for the money, nothing else compares, Maggies are simply the best. Of course that means sitting in the sweet spot to hear the imaging properly.
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Speaking as a 3.7i owner …. and 1.6, 1.7i, .6. They have been the most frustrating speaker I’ve owned. Everything said about them can be true but doesnt need to be. There will be a sweet spot in your room where they come alive and image quite well. Mine are currently 9 feet into the room. Amp quality first then power. Mine are underpowered with my Audio Research Ref 75 SE but sound sweet with good image at around 80db. Really Sweet! Fuses, crossovers, stands all need replacement to get that nth degree out of the speakers. With the right juice and location bass is tight and articulate but not heart interrupting so a sub will add some foundation but be prepared for further frustration getting it to mate with the panel. Get it right and the speakers really unfold. The speakers are all a great value in sound quality but are a commitment. Nothing less than the 1.7 is my opinion but that said a friend owns the LRS plus with two subs and exposure amp and it sounds quite good. Will it compare to your Joseph set up…. probably not even close.
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@arafiq
Life is too short, get them and get it out of your system, or keep them…lol.
All jokes aside, consider Alsyvox and Wolf Von Langa to your must audition list before you buy any speakers.
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I have the 3.7's and use 12" sealed box sub. Wonderful upgrade from the planar-magnetic panels. Plan on spending time on placement, listening position, etc. Subwoofer settings are crucial to good sound. What I like about Maggies is they are non-fatiguing. They are true to the source and will point out any flaws in the rest of your kit.
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Agree the 1.7i is the best value in the product line. My issue with Magnepan is the fit and finish and lack of an SE model(on all models).The SE model(s) would include proper stands/WBT speaker binding posts and top level crossover parts.
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Forgot to mention I’m using an unconventional diagonal placement where everything including the listening position is oriented into the corner.
my room is about 12.5’x17.5’x8’ but because of they way two of the walls are big openings to other rooms and the fact that there’s both a radiator and a fireplace along one of the short and long walls respectively I had to search for other arrangements.
This set up has been really good with both my Magnepans and Fritz speakers. It’s a slightly different setup for each.
Also, I’m definitely engaging room nodes with that corner as the bass is prettty great with these little LRS’s. But not too much or out of control or boomy at all… just a slight bump potentially making up for where the LRS’s are deficient.
I do have 2 Omega ”deep hemp” subs but they are out of the system for now and low end is great.
JS
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I owned the older LRS and currently the 1.7i I usually listen around 80 dB with peaks to 90+ Eclectic music taste. Rock, classical, some country, bluegrass, zydeco, organ, etc.
Imaging is what they do. Sound appears to come from far beyond the speaker’s physical location. The speakers disappear.
The LRS+ has a several-month or more lead time and few on the used market. The LRS+ and the larger Maggies are not the same speakers. Less bass than the larger versions but IMHO tone is better with the smaller panel.
Bass is good enough for me. I also own two REL subs. Not necessary with the 1.7i They sound fine without the subs. That’s personal taste. Not the easiest speaker to integrate subs.
4.5 feet out is about where I ended up with both the LRS and the 1.7i I have them closer than 3-feet to the side walls. Dipoles are not as sensitive to sidewall reflections.
I’ve used a 25-watt tube amp and 850-watt mono-blocks and stuff in between. I prefer the big SS power. You have plenty.
The stands are cheap. I have not sprung for Magnarisers or Mye Stands. They are what they are. Can one hear a difference?
The crossover components are cheap, binding posts are steel. Oh, well. Plenty of expensive speakers use inferior crossover components.
The 1.7i sounded good enough to beat out the other speakers I was using, albeit older models (Infinity RS-II, Klipsch Chorus II, Infinity RS-III/a, KEF 104/2). Of that group I liked the KEF 104/2 the best. May give some hint as to my taste in speakers.
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Good results with Mye stands and REL subs with Maggies.https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/mye-sound-mye-stands/#:~:text=Research%20and%20outreach%20to%20other%20Magnepan%20owners%20revealed,goal%20of%20improving%20the%20performance%20of%20Magnepan%20speakers.
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