I really appreciate the input and feedback from everyone. This is exactly the kind of input I was hoping for. It will be difficult for me to address and thank each one of you individually but please know that I really appreciate the detailed, high quality responses. Regardless of the outcome, the advice to try it in my own system is on point!
I think buying a used 1.7i is the right path for me at this time. If the sound appeals to me then perhaps I can think about upgrading in the future. If not, as mentioned earlier, it should not be difficult to resell it without incurring a major loss.
Also, thank you for the placement tips. Based on what I'm hearing I have enough amplification and room to allow the Maggies to shine. I will, of course, tweak with placement as that's part of the fun anyways. Unfortunately, I ended up selling my REL subs to make way for another purchase. I might have to buy another pair some time in the future, but only if I decide to stick with the Maggies. The Aavik and Joseph Audio combo really made the subs redundant, but who knows I might get one in the future.
As someone with cats in the house, I am a bit concerned of the damage they can cause. I usually keep them out of the media room but it's impossible to always keep an eye on them. My fear is that they might scratch and tear the front fabric. Not sure how costly it will be to replace the fabric just in case.
Lastly, I looked at the Soundlabs suggestion by another poster. Definitely looks like a higher-end and possibly better built version of the Maggies. But they are a bit outside of my budget (new) at the moment. Plus, I don't see anything in the used market. But it's good to know that an alternative exists.
I will be on the lookout for a used 1.7i pair to show up in the local market (Dallas, TX). Kinda weary of buying it unheard from the online markets.
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+1 @jjss49
The level of enthusiasm by Magnepan owners is commendable for sure. You can just sense how passionate they are about their speakers and how it connects them with the music first and foremost. Love it!
I have thought about the 3.7s but I think 1.7 is a good introduction to the world of Maggies. I don't know how the wife will react if she walks in and sees the massive 3.7s in the same spot as my Joseph Audios. I think 1.7s can act as the canary in the coal mine so to speak, lol!
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As enticing as the 3.7 model is, I feel it’s prudent to stick with 1.7i for now. I have no doubt that the 3.7 is possibly the sweet spot in the Magnepan lineup. But considering that I’m only trying to explore the Magnepan sound signature at this time without a serious $$ commitment, 1.7 is the more suitable entry point for me. If I like what I hear, and knowing myself, I have no doubt that I will be moving up the chain soon after.
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@mijostyn I appreciate the offer. I will contact you once I get the speakers -- most likely around June of this year. Thank you!
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@yesiam_a_pirate
Don't be a dick and wring him out then shop for used ones. That's manifestly selfish and unfair.
Thank you for chiming in. My room is quite well treated so I'm hoping that will not be an issue with the Magnepans. But I'm open to add more if needed.
I totally agree with your comment regarding supporting retailers and dealers. I practice this myself as much as possible. Having said that, this is an audio form and we're all adults here. We should let people decide what's best for them and leave any moral posturing at the door. Just my 2 cents. Hope you don't mind.
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+1 @jjss49
I have no doubt that Dannie Richie is very good at what he does. But at the end of the day it’s not that difficult to play monday morning quarterback. I have a lot more respect for folks who design, build, and sell their own speakers -- quirks, warts and all. I understand that it’s part of his business model but I have to admit that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when he talks trash about other manufacturers. There has to be a better and more classy way to run his business without denigrating others’ creations. Oh well ...
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Thanks for the input and feedback guys. Reading the responses, I see a number of folks who don't feel the need for very high powered/high current amplification and are happy with relatively medium powered amps. Based on my own experience, I think there are many speakers that are considered hard-to-drive but there are many people who are happy with all sorts of medium powered amps. The question though is how much are you leaving on the table? From what I understand, yes you can drive Magnepans with decent amplification with great results, but they really show you what they can bring to the table with big iron amplifiers. Since my amp is 300 watts @ 8 ohms and doubles to 600 at 4, I'm this will allow me to tap into the full potential of 1.7's.
I've been trying to find something local so I can listen before buying, but surprisingly not much available in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I'll continue to look though.
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Yeah that 'official' class D guidance from Magnepan gave me pause as well. Either they have not kept up with the advancements in class D or maybe their viewpoint is still valid for all that we know. As I've mentioned before, I was very skeptical of class D until I got my new Aavik integrated amp. That was a revelation, especially for a tube guy :)
My amp doubles from 300 watts at 8 ohms to 600 at 4. It drives my not-so-efficient speakers like a boss. But I don't know if class D uses the same level/type of current compared to class A/B. If there's a difference in that aspect, I would love to be enlightened. However, if Magnepan's official stand is that only high current class A/B are good enough to play ball in their backyard than I don't mind taking mine elsewhere. Not going to give up my class D amp for Maggies, that's for sure :)
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did i stumble into a class d amp thread?
Well, I did mention in the OP that I will be driving the Maggies with a class D amp, so I think that part of the discussion is relevant and not off topic :)
I understand that Magnepan employees cannot possibly test every amplifier under the sun, but it will be beneficial to the audiophile community if they perhaps broaden their horizons a bit more and revisit their stance vis-a-vis class D amps. As we can see on this thread alone, there are several folks who have successfully paired class D with Maggies and are quite happy. Maybe they can pick some top shelf amps from the likes of Atmasphere, AGD, Jeff Rowland, or Aavik for that matter and see what the new (and improved) technology has to offer.
Anyways, regardless of their official stance, I intend to find out how the speakers perform with my class D amp. Hopefully I can find a nice used pair locally. Not much available right now though.
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@mesch Congrats on your new LRS+ speakers. From what I read, they punch above their weight and scale with better components far beyond one would expect. Please share further impressions as you put on more miles on the speakers.
Question for you: Is there a specific reason you went with LRS+ and not a bigger model like 1.7i? Thanks.
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@jjss49
as you know i have a set of agd audions, after trying many other class d amps i did not enjoy, and the agd’s do very well with my 1.7i’s as well as 3.7i’s...
It was, in fact, your glowing review of the AGD’s that made me re-consider class D to begin with :)
I was quite skeptical based on prior experience with class D stuff (Peachtree and NAD) which simply did not work for me. But I have to admit, things have come a long way. I’m looking forward to trying it with my Aavik amp. Having said that, this is a strange hobby. If I really love the Maggie sound, I’m not opposed to going back to a high current class A/B amp if it works better. One thing I’ve learned in this hobby is that there are no absolutes. You never say never, and never proclaim something as your ’endgame’ component (Steve Huff, are you listening?)
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@mesch Thanks, and this makes sense. You did the right thing by buying what fits your room and budget. Regardless, I've only heard glowing reviews for this speaker.
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@jjss49 I'm in Texas (Dallas). I saw only one listed but it's the original LRS version (not LRS+). Maybe the other ones sold already?
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So a local audiophile was gracious enough to invite me to his house to listen to his Magnepan-based system. His speakers are 20.7 driven by Audio Research amps. I'm planning to visit his home in 1-2 weeks. I understand that 20.7 is way outside what I'm planning to spend on Maggies at the moment, but at least it will give me a taste of what these speakers are capable of. Looking forward to the visit.
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@jjss49 and @krelldreams Thank you for a real-world perspective of how these speakers behave in normal-sized rooms. My room is around 20x15 with 12 foot ceilings and fairly well treated. Based on what I'm able to glean from your experiences, I think 1.7i is definitely the right Maggie to get my feet wet. Is there a difference in bass response between the two, i.e. do you think the bass out on 3.7 is more compared to 1.7?
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@yyzsantabarbara I'm so excited that you're planning to give LRS+ a shot. Given your vast experience with gear at different price points, not to mention your ability to always keep an open mind, I can't wait to hear your impressions.
How far out are you able to pull out the speakers from the front wall? Do you plan to augment them with a sub? I've also read that replacing the stock stands with Magnarisers have a huge impact on sound quality. IMO, if you order the LRS+ you should also order the stands at the same time.
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@yyzsantabarbara Congrats! How were you able to get them so fast? I've heard the wait times are quite long ... unless you're buying used. Looking forward to your impressions.
I'm still on the lookout for a used pair of 1.7i's in the DFW area. Nothing so far.
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@yyzsantabarbara How are the LRS+ doing after you've probably put few more hours on them? How would you compare them to more traditional/box speakers?
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@yyzsantabarbara Thanks for sharing your impressions of LRS+. Looks like you're really enjoying the speakers. I almost bought 1.7s from a local seller but we're building an outdoor kitchen so all my audio funds were diverted towards it :(
I heard so much about the LRS+ punching way above their price bracket, provided you supply ample power to them, and perhaps a pair of subs. Your impressions are in line with what I've been reading.
How do you compare the NS5000 to your Thiels btw?
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Well after hemming and hawing for over a year, I ‘finally’ pulled the trigger on Magnepan 1.7i. Getting the white sock color since it’ll be easier to digest by wife compared to black. Will probably have to use gloves when handling them due to the color. Will let you guys know when I receive them and set them up. In the mean time any setup tips and do’s/dont’s are appreciated.
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Thanks, @lalitk This is an itch I just had to scratch. Let's see how it goes. I feel if I'm going to have two sets of speakers (including my Harbeth 40.2s), the other one has to be a completely different kettle of fish, so to speak.
@campoly The speakers I'm buying are pre-owned so hopefully sone break-in has already taken place. If I like what I'm hearing, I might spring for Myestands in the future. I was thinking of pulling them out between 4-5 feet from the front wall. I will probably start with tweeters facing inwards but might experiment the other way around later on,
Questions: How far should they be from the sidewalls? What is the optimal distance between listening position and speakers? Also, any guidance on how far apart the speakers should be from each other?
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@mclinnguy I've been busy with work and travel, didn't get a chance to login to audiogon. Just to bring everyone up to speed, I acquired a pair of 1.7s which I really enjoyed. I'm not aware of too many speakers around the $3K mark that can better what the 1.7's provide. No doubt it's a phenomenal value, provided you feed it with good quality high current amplification. Contrary to what I read online, I found imaging to be quite good. Maybe not super precise like other speaker types, but I found it to be surprisingly more life-like, i.e. how you it sounds like when you attend a real event, e.g. at a jazz club.
On the negative side, they (obviously) lack the punch and greater dynamics you would get from cone speakers. I also missed the beautiful midrange of my Harbeths. While the 1.7's have decent depth, they don't compete favorably with my Harbeths when it comes to layering.
Anyways, fast forward to today, I ended up upgrading to a brand-new pair of 3.7i's. They arrived a couple of days ago, I'm still breaking them in, but I suspect I have to be patient and wait for at least 100 hours before I form any concrete opinions. Right out of the gate, they sound much bigger, fuller, and with substantially better bass than the 1.7i's. The pure ribbon tweeter is a double-edged sword though. Phenomenal clarity and detail retrieval but can sound a bit harsh at times. I'm hoping this gets alleviated as I rack up more hours. But having said that, the life-size and life-like attributes of the 3.7i's are an aural feast that few speakers can match at this price point. The soundstage is wide, deep, and tall. The way it does instruments, especially acoustic instruments, is breath taking.
According to Magnepan, I need to be patient and wait at least 200 hours before I make any judgements. Let's see :)
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@mclinnguy: At the moment, I have both Harbeth and 3.7i’s. However, it will be financially irresponsible to keep both. I have to decide which one to keep.
I followed the link you sent me regarding the HK / LImage setup for the 3.7i’s. Not only does it look totally ridiculous, but it also goes against the Magnepan user manual which specifically asks to have some toe-in. I figured I had nothing to lose and decided to give it a shot anyways not expecting much. I pulled out the speakers about six and a half feet from the front wall (i.e. the wall behind the speakers), and exactly 14 inches from the side walls. And as instructed, I have zero toe in.
Let me tell you, the results are totally mind-bending. My room feels like it doubled in size. I don’t think I have ever had wider and deeper soundstage in this room. You often read about how you can walk into the soundstage and around the musicians. Well, that’s exactly what I’m experiencing. It is truly a spread out, three-dimensional soundstage with extraordinary imaging. Music emanates from the center to the far right and far left. I’m getting a much deeper soundstage with more than decent layering. More importantly, the harshness is gone, and bass is much deeper and satisfying. As a side benefit, the sweet spot has also widened where I don’t have to site smack in the center to get good imaging. Overall, I feel like I’m attending a live jazz concert in a decent-sized hall where the musicians are spread 20-30 feet across and 10-15 feet deep.
Over the years, I have owned several speakers ranging from $1000 all the way to $30,000. No other speaker has put a bigger grin on my face! This is ridiculously good! So yeah, the Harbeths will be gone soon.
Thank you for sharing the link. I would have never in a million years thought about trying that ’bonkers’ configuration :)
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@yyzsantabarbara Looks like you can't stay away from Maggies for too long :)
On the topic of cables, I have talked to several people and the consensus is that Maggies are sensitive to cable changes. Not surprising given that they are extremely transparent and somewhat unforgiving to mediocre recordings. I am currently using SwissCables Reference speaker cables which work quite well. However, I'm gradually upgrading all my cables to Audioquest Mythical Creatures line of cables (Firebird or Dragon). I've already replaced my RCA and XLR cables with AQ Firebird. The plan is to get Dragon power cords and eventually speaker cables to go full loom.
Before finalizing Magnepan 3.7i, I had a chance to listen to Diptyque 115 at a dealer near Austin. They are quite good but not as great a value as Magnepan. For example, to get the same level of performance as 3.7i, you have to move up to Diptyque DP140 which retails for close to $17K. I don't think their 115 model. which is priced higher than 3.7i, comes close to the 3.7i performance. Secondly, yes they have 'more' bass but I felt something was missing. Most likely the bass doesn't integrate with the rest of the drivers as well. I felt it was a bit disjointed. I also found them to be a little on the bright side. Maybe that's a French thing (Focal?), or perhaps it was the dealer's room acoustics. On the positive side, Diptyque looks slightly better and refined, especially in black.
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@mclinnguy I love the way you have treated the front wall (i.e., behind the speakers) in your listening room. I'm also thinking about getting some quadratic diffusers from GIK later this year. According to one Maggie owner, the front wall area directly behind the speakers is the most important.
I have yet to update my virtual system page (hopefully will do it this weekend), but do you mind taking a look at my system and tell me what type of diffusion (front wall) I should go with? You can see there's a painting in the center of the wall which I quite like. I was thinking of putting some foam behind the painting instead of replacing it with quadratic diffusers. Alternatively, I can get some 2-3 inch absorbers and put them behind the painting. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
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Thanks, @mclinnguy Looks like I’m going to have to get rid of the painting and get some quadratic diffusers instead. A local audiophile friend has the RD Acoustics panels in his listening room. Beautiful but very expensive!!! Plus the wait time on new ones is around 6 months. By the way, I’m only buying used AQ cables as funds permit - usually around 60% off. No way, I’m paying retail for the new ones.
I think I will go with about 4 of the Gotham N23 diffusers in the center of the wall. And flank them with 4 (2 on each side of the wall) Q7Ds. Pretty pricey, so maybe I will look for used ones if I can find them.
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+1 @lalitk Buying high-end equipment and not treating your room is akin to getting a Ferrari and putting the cheapest tires on it. That being said, we know that many audiophiles share listening rooms with family and its not always feasible (WAF).
All the existing room treatment I have currently was a result of working closely with GIK. They're not as comprehensive as Vicoustics, but their prices are much more reasonable. I realize that I have changed speakers 3 times since getting room treatments, so perhaps I need to re-evaluate everything. For example, do I really need to treat the side walls? Either way, treating the front wall is the highest priority for now.
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There are so many good speakers out there, you needed to go to some shows or to some dealers to listen to different kinds of speaker systems
What makes you think I haven't already done so? I have owned many speakers ranging from $5-30K in the past. I regularly visit shows (when they're local or nearby) and audio dealer show rooms. I'm also part of an audio club where folks have speakers ranging from the uber-expensive (high-end Magico, Avantgarde, Wilson, Borresen, Sonus Faber, etc.) to affordable (GR Research, Rega, Tekton, etc.) where we meet regularly and listen and critique each others' systems. So believe me, I know what I'm talking about :)
IMO Magnepan 3.7i's, despite their reasonable price (comparatively speaking), are one of the best values around in audiodom today. Are they the best? Of course not! But what they do well, they do it better than many speakers costing two to three times. Secondly, I don't believe in endgame speakers anymore. My goal is to try (in my own system) all manners of speaker designs, including horns, open baffle, omni-directional, etc. at some point in my journey. No speaker is best at everything, but that doesn't mean we cannot enjoy and appreciate the great qualities that each speaker type is capable of. Happy listening!
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@audioisnobiggie I don't think I understand your post. What is the point you're trying to make?
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So it has been a few weeks since I received the new Magnepan 3.7i’s. I thought I’d share my findings -- good and bad, thus far ...
First, break in is important for most speakers but probably even more important for the Maggies. Initially, they sounded muffled, restricted, with very little bass. Imaging was substandard as well. I almost thought of returning them.
Fast forward to today, and most of these issues have been resolved by way of putting more hours, positioning, and adding subs. Both bass and midrange have improved considerably. Imaging, while not pinpoint accurate, sounds fantastic now. In fact, everyone who has listened to my system says that they sound more life-like, as in how it sounds in live events. Instrument separation is great, in fact better than most box speakers I’ve owned. I don’t find anything mushy or diffused about the image or soundstage at all. I suspect most folks who complain about that are not using adequate power, or current to be more precise. These big boys like current ... like a lot!
Bass response also improved quite a bit but I came to the conclusion that panel speakers will simply not give me that deep thumping bass no matter how you slice it. I auditioned several subs in my system, including REL S510, S812, and Rhythmik/GR Research open baffle. RELs, as good as they are, simply couldn’t keep up with the speed of Maggies. Don’t get me wrong, they were quite good but I could always hear them somehow. We spent several hours positioning and repositioning them but they didn’t quite disappear the way I wanted to. Rhythmik/GR open baffles were somewhat of a let down. I had such high expectations, but they simply don’t have the same level of refinement as REL.
In the end, the only one that ticked all the boxes for me was a pair of Wilson Benesch Torus subs. Each sub is driven by a dedicated external amplifier also supplied by WB. These subs are FAST!!! No matter what I throw at them, they never lose composure and provides me with deep tight bass without calling attention to themself. They disappear better than any other sub I’ve ever owned. The biggest revelation for me was to realize how much more nuance and texture is present in the bass region. REL does it quite well, but the WBs take it one step further. Rhythmik/GR didn’t get close to this level of performance, but they also cost a lot less so maybe it shouldn’t be surprising. But yeah, giant killers they’re not :)
At this point, I’m getting the most amazing, wide and deep soundstage, excellent imaging (though can be improved further) and midrange. The bass is deep and tight. In short, these babies are staying in my system.
Next steps: I ordered new stands from Mye Sound -- the new aluminum V-base stands. From what I’ve been reading, they should further improve imaging and bass. I’ve also ordered 4 quadratic diffusers (Q7) to go on the wall behind speakers.
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Thanks, @lalitk .. your input has always been appreciated and honestly has played a huge role in how my system has evolved over the years.
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@mclinnguy All good points!
Where I find I am enjoying the "impact" is on leading edges of notes- like bass guitars- you know, the electric amplified ones. I get a little "punch" from the midrange driver that was not so noticeable with the planars.
I'm getting the same results after adding the subs. Another benefit, due to subs, is the midrange has more 'meat on the bones' now. It has added the right level of warmth but without crossing into the syrupy warm territory. However, at the end of the day, planars will never give you the visceral punch in the guts type of slam that a traditional speaker like Wilson Audio will. But that's not why you love Maggies, right? They do so much more that you tend to forget about the shortcomings.
I'm completely with you on the insane value the Maggies, especially the 3.7i, provide. I have owned speakers up to $30K and I can confidently assert that the 3.7i's can take on any of the speakers, and in some ways better them. But they do require some effort.
Regarding your comment about Gaia footers, I was advised by someone whose opinion I value, that the Gaia footers are not the best choice for Maggies. He recommended Auva speaker isolators by Stack Audio for carpeted floors. But I have not tried them so it's neither here nor there.
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Besides ordering the new stands from Mysound, I'm also seriously considering the GR Research Magnepan 3.7i kit, which is basically a vastly improved crossover. Just looking at the before and after graphs published on Danny's website, it looks like a pretty substantial improvement. I would love to hear from someone who has tried this and is willing to share their experience.
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@mclinnguy Thanks for the Live Vibe rack suggestion. If you look at my virtual system you will see that all my racks are Live Vibe, including the two three-shelf racks and the one underneath my Vitus amp. This was one of the best investments I made in my system. The improvement in sound was obvious the moment I put in the racks, and it was not subtle! This reminds me I need to update my system pics as it's still showing the Harbeth speakers. Need to take some new pics this weekend and update my virtual system ... just been lazy!
At one point, I had asked Robert to build some nice stands for my Harbeth speakers but the cost was prohibitive. Once I get my Mysound stands in, I will contact him again to see what he can do. Thank you for the suggestion.
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