Thinking of Magnepan ... finally!

Thanks, @lalitk .. your input has always been appreciated and honestly has played a huge role in how my system has evolved over the years.

Well there is the post I have been waiting for- good stuff @arafiq Wilson Benesch huh? I thought for sure they might have been some style of open baffle.

edit: Ok, just looked up the Wilson Benesch "infrasonic generators"- wow! you must be getting some "real" bass now! 

I don’t find anything mushy or diffused about the image or soundstage at all. I suspect most folks who complain about that are not using adequate power, or current to be more precise. These big boys like current ... like a lot!

Or they don’t take the time to live with them for enough time, and quickly loose the patience necessary to set them up properly.

Bass response also improved quite a bit but I came to the conclusion that panel speakers will simply not give me that deep thumping bass no matter how you slice it.

Yeah, they don’t do that. Again that argument of "what I like vs. what is realistic". What do people define bass to be: Is it what an acoustic bass, live, un-amplified sounds like? Or does bass mean an amplified kick drum played back in a rock concert, where I can remember being on the floor in front of stacks of 15-18 inch woofers and your hair and pants move several inches on each note. I might argue one is realistic and the other not, but I might also argue both are correct, and fine- choose your poison. Maggies do the first part as well as anything I have heard, but the second part, yeah, not so much- rules of physics apply here.

If you can allow me to hijack your thread a bit- I admit after 15 years of 3.6r’s I am enjoying a little "thump" with the Eufrodites. Of course there are songs/albums where I have missed the low frequency growl, areas below 40hz where the 3.6’s start to tail off quickly, but the kick drum always sounded natural to me, and it is not so much the "thump", or even a more impactful "whack" on tom toms. To be honest, I find it grabs my attention and detracts from the drum’s mid-notes resonance, but with more listening I may change my mind. Where I find I am enjoying the "impact" is on leading edges of notes- like bass guitars- you know, the electric amplified ones. I get a little "punch" from the midrange driver that was not so noticeable with the planars. Maybe that isn’t so much a conventional woofer cone vs. planar magnetic difference, maybe that is the difference between my particular speakers? I am not so experienced with various characteristics of speakers.

There are many other differences I won’t list here, but also many similarities- voices are so similar- I enjoy the presentation of both- but then again some perspective: I am used to and comparing maggies with speakers that retailed for over 4x this. Speaks volumes for the quality of sound one can get from Magneplanar for the money- that is what I was told 20 years ago and I suppose it still applies today. Maybe the differences will become more apparent when I get an amplifier that suits the Horning’s better than the one I am using that benefits the lower efficiency Maggies.

: I ordered new stands from Mye Sound

Also, I did find Isoacoustics Gaia II footers under my Mye’s cleaned up the presentation as they have been reported to do on virtually everyone else’s speakers who have tried them- sound became less muddy, less smearing, or also interpreted as better separation of instruments, and bass tightened up. Had thoughts of trying more expensive footers/platforms such as Live Vibe’s, Townshends or Stack Audio’s but I have spent that money on a second set of speakers instead (ha ha). It sure was nice that discover that the Gaia simply unscrewed from the Mye stands and into the bottoms of the Eufrodites using different threaded screws already supplied in the box the Gaia’s came in. And yes, they are providing the same sonic benefits in the Eufrodites as I noticed with the Maggies.

Thanks for follow-up! Let us know how those diffusors affect the soundstage.

Enjoy

@arafiq 

Great update! I am not at all surprised with your findings. I have been fortunate to hear WB sub system few times and always came away impressed. They were of course in a system well north of $200K (courtesy AAudio Imports). Keep us updated…we all are living vicariously through your amazing journey. 

So it has been a few weeks since I received the new Magnepan 3.7i’s. I thought I’d share my findings -- good and bad, thus far ...

First, break in is important for most speakers but probably even more important for the Maggies. Initially, they sounded muffled, restricted, with very little bass. Imaging was substandard as well. I almost thought of returning them.

Fast forward to today, and most of these issues have been resolved by way of putting more hours, positioning, and adding subs. Both bass and midrange have improved considerably. Imaging, while not pinpoint accurate, sounds fantastic now. In fact, everyone who has listened to my system says that they sound more life-like, as in how it sounds in live events. Instrument separation is great, in fact better than most box speakers I’ve owned. I don’t find anything mushy or diffused about the image or soundstage at all. I suspect most folks who complain about that are not using adequate power, or current to be more precise. These big boys like current ... like a lot!

Bass response also improved quite a bit but I came to the conclusion that panel speakers will simply not give me that deep thumping bass no matter how you slice it. I auditioned several subs in my system, including REL S510, S812, and Rhythmik/GR Research open baffle. RELs, as good as they are, simply couldn’t keep up with the speed of Maggies. Don’t get me wrong, they were quite good but I could always hear them somehow. We spent several hours positioning and repositioning them but they didn’t quite disappear the way I wanted to. Rhythmik/GR open baffles were somewhat of a let down. I had such high expectations, but they simply don’t have the same level of refinement as REL.

In the end, the only one that ticked all the boxes for me was a pair of Wilson Benesch Torus subs. Each sub is driven by a dedicated external amplifier also supplied by WB. These subs are FAST!!! No matter what I throw at them, they never lose composure and provides me with deep tight bass without calling attention to themself. They disappear better than any other sub I’ve ever owned. The biggest revelation for me was to realize how much more nuance and texture is present in the bass region. REL does it quite well, but the WBs take it one step further. Rhythmik/GR didn’t get close to this level of performance, but they also cost a lot less so maybe it shouldn’t be surprising. But yeah, giant killers they’re not :)

At this point, I’m getting the most amazing, wide and deep soundstage, excellent imaging (though can be improved further) and midrange. The bass is deep and tight. In short, these babies are staying in my system.

Next steps: I ordered new stands from Mye Sound -- the new aluminum V-base stands. From what I’ve been reading, they should further improve imaging and bass. I’ve also ordered 4 quadratic diffusers (Q7) to go on the wall behind speakers.

@audioisnobiggie I don't think I understand your post. What is the point you're trying to make?

Now that the LRS+ version has replaced the previous version, which was already said to have incorporated all new lessons learned by Magnepan in the original LRS version, and received much acclaim, do any of the owners of above entry level now older Maggies feel like the system has failed them? What if, after buying the best speaker and before system, you find out that you're already supposed to be dead, unless it's at a minimum of 10,000 watts, when you just heard Attack by The Exploited, oh, and with a sub?

How was the military intervention, since Reagan? Was there ever anything even YOU could find out, while James Bond was you first?

A potential customer's only hope of survival may be in a review of that track on any Maggies, with a comparison to what we should expect dynamic drivers to roughly be. What if someone broke into your home one weekend day, and demanded to hear your best rendition of that track, to find out whether you live or die?

An interesting observation for me today with my Mini. I switched over to my Schitt Aegir monoblock amps which run at 70 watts 8 Ohm in Class A. Not sure about 4 Ohm. All other gear was the same.

The sound was a little more rounded than my Sander Magtech (Class AB). The sound was also rather boomy. I was getting fatigued and was thinking that I needed to put some of the GIK panels back behind the speaker to tame this sound. However, I gave all my panels away so that is not an option anymore.

I put back my Sanders Magtech and the boominess and fatigue went away. This was without any acoustic treatment in a weird room..

I am assuming that the Mini was not well served on the low end by the Aegir and the boominess was the result. My takeaway is to use a very powerful amp with the Mini. I am surprised I am not getting any sonic issues with the Sanders. It sounds great.

After a few more days with the 10 AWG Blue Jean speaker cable, it is no longer a question of whether I am keeping the cable. I put my Audience FrontRow up for sale. I am not even trying it on the Mini because I would need to rearrange some things to make the short FrontRow cable work. I also do not care for any marginal improvement, if it even exists, with the FrontRow. The Blue Jean cost under $300 for 2 sets and the short FrontRow speaker cable was about $5k MSRP.

Great thread @arafiq .  Having been on the fence as well with mags, this "thought" comes up, kind of like dipping toes into vinyl .  I have friends with 1.7i and have heard them many times and they do sound great.  They do things really well and other things that may or may not meet ones preferences.

I recently heard them again in a diff setting and although they do kinda wow you at first, it didn't take long to realize I don't think I would be happy long term - citing many of the same attributes you did, that's why this was such a good read.

The big soundstage etc.. is "cool" but to me always seemed a bit too much or "artificial" for lack of a better word.  It sorta mashes everything together compared to dynamic/point source.  That's what I miss almost immediately - the dynamics, pin point imaging and bass authority.  I run two sealed 15" subs so I should be OK if I decide to try, 

Maybe that's just an element I'm used to and living with mags overtime would fall in love, dunno.  Like you I have determined that its either 3.7i or the 20's and really its more of a "something to try" and not at all unhappy with current setup - far, far from it.  However, I'm not a constant gear swapper, I find something that gels/has synergy and stick with it for awhile.

I always read from experienced/established users/audiophiles that everyone should try planers, just to see - that's always my motivation.

One other note, you have a nice room and your comment about diffusion - I would recommend against mixing up different types.  For the front wall do all QRD's (one dimensional only) along with proper corner bass trapping.  I've tried it and it can mess things up (diffusion is tricky/complex and in all honesty professional adivice is highly recommended) - I have on front wall two dimensional skylines (vicoustic  DC2) which are hemispheric broadband diffusion.(about 12-14 panels).  Works well, but I "think" if I were to do it over, would put all QRD - at least from my research, so the usual YMMV, my $.02

@arafiq

For example, do I really need to treat the side walls?

I would wager no. I just removed all 6 of my side wall absorption panels, which are Primacoustic Broadway 12" x 48" x 2" of high density glass wool. Easy to do as they are just pressed on protruding triangular hooks screwed into the drywall.

I think Cannonball’s sax (Kind of Blue- So What) was a little further outside the speaker, and the tiniest bit of high frequency information and spaciousness was introduced, and the upright bass was a little looser with them removed, but if I had to pass a blind test I don’t think I would. This is in an 11 foot width room- I would guess a larger room would have less effect. Room looks naked without them now so I replaced them. 

Due to dipole cancellation there is not alot of energy dispersed to the sides of maggies. Maybe the sidewall is a good place for the painting? If you wanted the sound of the alto sax to emanate from the painting that is.

Broadway panels absorption coefficient data

There are so many good speakers out there, you needed to go to some shows or to some dealers to listen to different kinds of speaker systems

What makes you think I haven't already done so? I have owned many speakers ranging from $5-30K in the past. I regularly visit shows (when they're local or nearby) and audio dealer show rooms. I'm also part of an audio club where folks have speakers ranging from the uber-expensive (high-end Magico, Avantgarde, Wilson, Borresen, Sonus Faber, etc.) to affordable (GR Research, Rega, Tekton, etc.) where we meet regularly and listen and critique each others' systems. So believe me, I know what I'm talking about :)

IMO Magnepan 3.7i's, despite their reasonable price (comparatively speaking), are one of the best values around in audiodom today. Are they the best? Of course not! But what they do well, they do it better than many speakers costing two to three times. Secondly, I don't believe in endgame speakers anymore. My goal is to try (in my own system) all manners of speaker designs, including horns, open baffle, omni-directional, etc. at some point in my journey. No speaker is best at everything, but that doesn't mean we cannot enjoy and appreciate the great qualities that each speaker type is capable of. Happy listening!

+1 @lalitk Buying high-end equipment and not treating your room is akin to getting a Ferrari and putting the cheapest tires on it. That being said, we know that many audiophiles share listening rooms with family and its not always feasible (WAF).

All the existing room treatment I have currently was a result of working closely with GIK. They're not as comprehensive as Vicoustics, but their prices are much more reasonable. I realize that I have changed speakers 3 times since getting room treatments, so perhaps I need to re-evaluate everything. For example, do I really need to treat the side walls? Either way, treating the front wall is the highest priority for now.

I’m sure the OP has moved on by now... but... for those who are still considering them - here’s all you need to know:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=magnepan+lrs%2B+demos

You can try the LRS+, which is about "as good as it gets" for any speaker... and decide.

I have several great speakers and systems... and... found the LRS+ is just as OCD Audio Guy claims "about as good as it gets" - when matched with the right system - for Jazz, Country, Classical (all things acoustic)!  If you're into Rock, Hip Hop, etc. you can't appreciate their sound anyway - so don't waste your time!

I also found that all of the "tweeks" don’t make a big difference - the LRS+ sounds great right out of the box! And... I’m only using a $700 Class D Audio SDS-470C amp - which drives them exceptionally well!

So... for a $1000... the LRS+ is a "sure bet!"

This forum repeatedly manages to cling to two incompatible truths:

1) listening is subjective; trust your ears

2) my equipment is objectively better than your (respected/revered) equipment, which is objectively terrible

These two positions often make discussion/debate possible, but they also make discussion/debate meaningless. 

I've found that people who complain about larger Maggies bass don't know what bass actually sounds like.

Why? I have friends that had the 3.7’s and the 20.7’s and they don’t anymore. I never liked the sound. Lean bass and these friends tried to get subwoofers to work with them with no luck. They filled their respective rooms which is probably the best benefit, but box speakers will do a better job.

With the larger 20.7’s, you need a heavy duty amp. 
I did go listen to the 30.7’s while they had their break out tour. Terrible! In separate locations they sounded poor. Not sure if they had issues with something but even my friends didn’t think they sound d any good.

There are so many good speakers out there, you needed to go to some shows or to some dealers to listen to different kinds of speaker systems

I first heard the big Maggies about 35 years ago. They gave the best sound I'd ever heard, but I listened to the naysayers who were naysaying exactly the same things they're naysaying now. So I bought JBL's instead. The sound of the Maggies never left my ears and then I heard another pair a few years late. Sold the JBL's and bought the 3.3r's. Still own the same pair today. My wife claims she'll bury me in them (OK!). They are VERY picky about placement. fractions of an inch and a degree here or there make a difference. It's WORTH spending the time to tweak then, though. You'll want an in-home trial of any electronics. I've heard them with BIG Audio Research tube amp and they sound incredible but I can't afford those nor would I put up with the hassle. They are musical and can be forgiving but will highlight the strengths and weaknesses of your system. I listen in near field, the speakers are about 6 feet apart and 5 feet in front of my head. Dynamics are strong, though nothing beats my old JBL's on the bass drum on Love Over Gold. They were visceral!!!!

GIK did the treatments in my prior larger office. They were perfect with all the speakers I had except the LRS+. With the LRS+ I removed the panels for the first reflections and the sound was better (soundstage). I kept the panels behind the speakers and also behind my seating position. The arbitrator of what stayed was ear fatigue.

This was another reason I got the Mini since the Maggies seem to have less side reflection issues.

 “And those who have treated their room keep saying this to the masses, but we understand it is definitely not as exciting or as sexy as shiny new components. ”

@mclinnguy 

LOL!  I can say unequivocally, that shiny new component will sound heck of lot better in an acoustically treated room. 

@arafiq well first fill out GIK’s acoustical advice form and get their recommendations first- it is free!

@lalitk 

For most folks, it’s an afterthought but it should be the first and foremost priority especially if you have a dedicated listening room. May seems expensive at first, but it’s lot cheaper than being on equipment and tweaking merry-go-round.

And those who have treated their room keep saying this to the masses, but we understand it is definitely not as exciting or as sexy as shiny new components. 

“I think I will go with about 4 of the Gotham N23 diffusers in the center of the wall. And flank them with 4 (2 on each side of the wall) Q7Ds. Pretty pricey, so maybe I will look for used ones if I can find them”

@arafiq

I love the direction you are taking with acoustic panels and diffusers. The addition of both would further enhance your listening experience. When I treated my room, I couldn’t believe the impact and improvement after the installation. For most folks, it’s an afterthought but it should be the first and foremost priority especially if you have a dedicated listening room. May seems expensive at first, but it’s lot cheaper than being on equipment and tweaking merry-go-round.

Thanks, @mclinnguy Looks like I’m going to have to get rid of the painting and get some quadratic diffusers instead. A local audiophile friend has the RD Acoustics panels in his listening room. Beautiful but very expensive!!! Plus the wait time on new ones is around 6 months. By the way, I’m only buying used AQ cables as funds permit - usually around 60% off. No way, I’m paying retail for the new ones.

I think I will go with about 4 of the Gotham N23 diffusers in the center of the wall. And flank them with 4 (2 on each side of the wall) Q7Ds. Pretty pricey, so maybe I will look for used ones if I can find them.

@arafiq 

I recently just sold my Maggi .7’s. I found Maggi’s at times knocked my socks off and many times I found myself cringing. With lots of stuff Transparency was spot on but other times like female vocals tended to sound unfocused. My musical tastes are basically everything but Country & Opera. Most listening consists of Jazz, Blues, Big Band, Classic Rock. One thing that got me was the lack of Attack, The Lack of Slam… Keep in mind I was running them with (2) REL T5-X Subs and like I mentioned sounded great … At Times.

Odyssey Kismet Extreme Monoblocks & Candela Preamp, so power was not the issue.

Many friends and fellow audiophiles who stopped by and hung out and listened were blown away and thought I was nuts for getting rid of them, that’s because I knew what to demo them with… But when it came time where I was doing my serious listening I was about 70% happy. Had them on Magna Risers too.
I probably would have kept them if I had the ability to swap out with cone speakers when my listening required. But totally agree, every audiophile should at least have Maggi’s at least once in their listening life.

I have over 12 hours on my Blue Jean speaker cable and the Mini was bought used so it is broken in. At this early point I can easily say the Mini setup is sounding better than the LRS+ system. The top end is a bit better and there is more clarity in the Mini. This is a massive home run for me. What a great speaker and it cost $1000 used. The best speaker I have used in my office.

The 3.7 must be a very nice speaker given how the Mini is said to be a miniaturized 3.7.

BTW - I was thinking of selling the Sanders Magtech before I got the Mini. Now that I have heard it on the Mini there is no chance. I thought the Sanders maybe a little bright on the LRS+, but it is not on the Mini. It was the LRS+ that was slightly bright.

The Sanders is 500 @ 8 and 900 @ 4. Roger Sanders told me it was made specifically for the Maggies (by CODA). I did not think it was amazing on my Yamaha NS5000 speaker, but on the Maggies, it is an exceptional amp.

@mclinnguy I am not making a general statement that speaker cables do not matter. I have been using the Audience FrontRow speaker cable on my now sold LRS+ (office) and my Livingroom systems. This cable can compete with any cable at any price. It was easy to hear the difference on my Livingroom system when I did a speaker cable shootout last year.

What I am trying to determine is if I did not need to use the FrontRow on the LRS+ in the first place. Today I have setup the Magnepan Mini system with my KEF KC62 sub. The only difference between the LRS+ system I had, and the Mini system today are the following:

• different room
• 2 sets pf Blue Jean 10 AWG speaker cables for the Mini vs 1 set of FrontRow speaker cable for the LRS+. The Blue Jean are brand new and were just setup on the Mini.

The similar parts are the following:

• Sanders Magtech amp
• Benchmark HPA4 preamp
• Schitt Yggi+ Less Is More DAC
• KEF KC62 sub
• Sonore OpticalRendu fibre streaming

Even on this still breaking in speaker cables it seems like the Mini is smoother sounding and a bit more detailed than the LRS+. I will be giving this about 2 weeks of heavy play and then putting in the spare FrontRow to the bass panel of the Mini (from the amp) to see what happens.

Given how good the Blue Jean is already sounding I would not be surprised if I sell my spare FrontRow cables to recoup some costs.

@yyzsantabarbara yeah, I have read plenty from really knowledgeable bloggers, some who have forgotten more about speaker and crossover design than I will ever know, and some who have designed and engineered world class amplifiers, who still state that speaker cables don't matter. My ears tell me otherwise. I currently have 2 sets of Silversmith Fidelium's connected to my Cardas binding posts on the back of my 3.6R's, I prefer them to the previous Acoustic Zen Absolute's, and I suspect they will be on there for a while. 

The Mini was really the only option I have for my current space. It will not be on a desk, and there will be an unobstructed path from the speakers to my ears.

I was not really particularly about getting a Maggie, but I already have a great amp for Maggies and I have the KEF KC62 sub with all the cabling to make it work. It was the easiest path.

Here is a discussion on speaker cable for Maggies.

What are the best Speaker Cables for Magneplanars? - General Forum - Audiophile Style

I will find out if this is true starting today. My Mini Maggies arrive in a few hours, and I have the 10 AWG Blue Jean speaker cables already in the house. I will try the Audience FrontRow on the bass module of the Mini and also the satellites. Not a perfect comparison with the pure Blue Jean cable setup but it should have some value.

Mini Maggie System – magneplanar

Yeah, that painting is quite big, the problem is it is a large flat surface you can’t get the scattering or diffusion with it and the sound will always be compromised. I don’t know if somebody else has a say in the matter but the best sound will be a produced from a proper irregular surface, based on mathematical theory:

Look at some of this eye candy - when the visual and the practical are combined and the result is beneficial and beautiful. 

@arafiq I know GIK wanted to sell me the polyfusor’s behind them, but that was before they came out with the slatfusor’s or their own Q7 diffusor . I am curious to know what they would recommend now, but me being in Canada the cost of shipping was the same amount as the cost of the products, so I decided to make my own. I found some excellent acoustics resources I could share with you if you are interested, based on those I decided to go with a quadratic residue style. I wish I could give you the listening impressions of my N11 diffuser compared to an N13 or other, but that is the only one I have heard. So no idea if diffusion from 500 hz to 4200 hz is better than 680 hz to 5300 hz (going off the top of my head :) I chose the N11 because of the size. It was a fun project and yes, it does work, very well. I just have been thinking of adding more above them to the ceiling- because the speaker exceeds them in height they should diffuse in that area as well. (in theory)

If you have the budget for Dragon cables, If it were me, I would definitely get this diffusor: RD Acoustic I think it looks awesome, I may have one in the future. Does it sound better or worse then mine? No idea :)

My philosophy is diffusion on the front wall, absorption on the back wall. I do have some extras on the side walls, but I don't think they do much- maybe reduce a bit of slap echo. I don’t think a wee bit of foam on the front wall (behind the paining) will do anything to improve soundstage, but it may tame a little of the high frequencies if one feels that is necessary. 

The common approach suggested in the planar forum was a few fig trees, I did that years ago also, and they did work for the highest frequencies to improve imaging, and the price was right, but these N11 quadratic diffusors work better. 

@mclinnguy I love the way you have treated the front wall (i.e., behind the speakers) in your listening room. I'm also thinking about getting some quadratic diffusers from GIK later this year. According to one Maggie owner, the front wall area directly behind the speakers is the most important.

I have yet to update my virtual system page (hopefully will do it this weekend), but do you mind taking a look at my system and tell me what type of diffusion (front wall) I should go with? You can see there's a painting in the center of the wall which I quite like. I was thinking of putting some foam behind the painting instead of replacing it with quadratic diffusers. Alternatively, I can get some 2-3 inch absorbers and put them behind the painting. Let me know what you think. Thanks.

@yyzsantabarbara Looks like you can't stay away from Maggies for too long :)

On the topic of cables, I have talked to several people and the consensus is that Maggies are sensitive to cable changes. Not surprising given that they are extremely transparent and somewhat unforgiving to mediocre recordings. I am currently using SwissCables Reference speaker cables which work quite well. However, I'm gradually upgrading all my cables to Audioquest Mythical Creatures line of cables (Firebird or Dragon). I've already replaced my RCA and XLR cables with AQ Firebird. The plan is to get Dragon power cords and eventually speaker cables to go full loom.

Before finalizing Magnepan 3.7i, I had a chance to listen to Diptyque 115 at a dealer near Austin. They are quite good but not as great a value as Magnepan. For example, to get the same level of performance as 3.7i, you have to move up to Diptyque DP140 which retails for close to $17K. I don't think their 115 model. which is priced higher than 3.7i, comes close to the 3.7i performance. Secondly, yes they have 'more' bass but I felt something was missing. Most likely the bass doesn't integrate with the rest of the drivers as well. I felt it was a bit disjointed. I also found them to be a little on the bright side. Maybe that's a French thing (Focal?), or perhaps it was the dealer's room acoustics. On the positive side, Diptyque looks slightly better and refined, especially in black.

I recently got a deal on 3.7 with Mye Stands. They are magnificent. So I guess the 1.6 will be sold and the Goldenears are back to tv duty.

Bass (or the lack thereof) -- I've had 1.7's and now have 3.7's and they are OK in the Bass but adding a pair of subs is worth it and the effect is not just bass, somehow it smooths out the highs.  I have REL S510's on the longbow wireless system and upgraded XLR cables, it makes placement much easier without wires.  Per REL it is best to run them directly off the amp (s).  As the Maggies are a very fast speaker the subs need to be fast to keep up and sound proper.

The one weakness is lack of slam but that is a strength when reproducing acoustic's and vocals, lots of layering and texture revealed.  Blues guitars are amazing;  Allman brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughn etc.

Breathing Room -- If you want imaging and air get them away from the rear walls.  I have mine about 5 feet.

Mods --I haven't done much except MYE stands, Jumpers and Fuses, and yes it is worth it.  I lack the courage and dedication to mess with the crossover but hear it really helps.  https://gr-research.com/product/magnepan-3-7i-upgrade-kit-pair/

Value -- If you can swing it, nothing less than 3.7's for silky highs and sighs.  The true Ribbon panel is in another world compared to the 1.7 and below.

Imaging I don't have much to compare to but I am getting a very Holographic 3D sound stage with precise instrument location.  

Bottom line they are unforgivingly revealing of your gear, if your preamp does not image well or if your amps or DAC doesn't have clear concise bass you will hear that.  If your system has digital noise or electrical noise you will hear that also and I think that is why many feel Maggies can be biting in the upper registers.  But if you give them a great signal they should sound silky.   

@northman Thanks, I just ordered the 10 AWG Blue Jean cable. I need 2 sets for the Mini and it cost $200 for all of it. I will put my Audience FrontRow with 1 set of the Blue Jean and compare it with the 2 sets of the Blue Jean. 

Unfortunately, my second set of Audience FrontRow is spade-2-spade and that will not work with the Mini. That would have been an apple-2-apples comparison.

The FrontRow has been significantly better than all other speaker cables I used with my prior speakers and also my current Yamaha NS5000.    I used it with the sold LRS+ (my current spare cable) and it was better than my WyWIre speaker cables, so that is interesting.

@yyzsantabarbara, for what it's worth, I went from moderately expensive Ohno speaker cables (no idea what gauge but light and thin) to some inexpensive 10 AWG Blue Jeans cables--and the improvement in sound was considerable. The Ohnos sounded great with other speakers but were easily bested by the Blue Jeans cables. (Magtech > 1.7i) So my experience jibes with the post you read.

After selling the LRS+ a few weeks ago I turned around and got a used Magnepan Mini for my new smaller office space.

A question for you Maggies owners out there? I was using the Audience FrontRow speaker cables with my LRS+, but I need more speaker cabling for the Mini since it has 3 panels.

I read a single post online from someone that seemed to know their stuff. That person stated that Maggies are not that dependent on speaker cables. The person also said to use 10 AWG or 12 AWG speaker cables. Is this something that others have noticed with their Maggies? What cables are you using?

I plan to do a shootout with the Schitt Aegir v1 monoblocks (70 @ 8) vs the Sanders Magtech (500 @ 8 | 900 @4). I have both in the house. I am hoping that for the Mini’s the Aegir will be good enough and I can sell the Magtech to raise cash. Anyone using Aegir monos with the Maggies?

@arafiq You should have a listen to the Diptyque panel speakers.

Shop New Diptyque - The Music Room (too bad they raised the prices)

before you get deep into the Maggies. There is an interesting YouTube video where one of the Maggi principles hears one of the Diptyque at an audio show. He was impressed.

My 3.7i also sounded harsh on the top end until I had over 200 hrs on them. I also went from a Parasound Hint to a Pass 250.8 more power and current will always sound better. I experimented with different resistors and ended up with .57 I found out that anything over 1 seemed to suck the life out of them.

Enjoy happy listening

My pleasure. Glad you are enjoying the bonkers setup.

For others wondering wtf, essentially it is a theory of coupling the speakers back wave to the room itself using the front wall, and what results is a wall of sound, a cathedral effect, and yeah, it can be quite an experience in soundstage. Diffusion like the quadratic diffuser I have on the front wall makes the imaging even more precise.

If you want more bass, push the speakers closer to the side walls, (same distance to the front wall). Less bass further away from the sidewalls.

@mclinnguy: At the moment, I have both Harbeth and 3.7i’s. However, it will be financially irresponsible to keep both. I have to decide which one to keep.

I followed the link you sent me regarding the HK / LImage setup for the 3.7i’s. Not only does it look totally ridiculous, but it also goes against the Magnepan user manual which specifically asks to have some toe-in. I figured I had nothing to lose and decided to give it a shot anyways not expecting much. I pulled out the speakers about six and a half feet from the front wall (i.e. the wall behind the speakers), and exactly 14 inches from the side walls. And as instructed, I have zero toe in.

Let me tell you, the results are totally mind-bending. My room feels like it doubled in size. I don’t think I have ever had wider and deeper soundstage in this room. You often read about how you can walk into the soundstage and around the musicians. Well, that’s exactly what I’m experiencing. It is truly a spread out, three-dimensional soundstage with extraordinary imaging. Music emanates from the center to the far right and far left. I’m getting a much deeper soundstage with more than decent layering. More importantly, the harshness is gone, and bass is much deeper and satisfying. As a side benefit, the sweet spot has also widened where I don’t have to site smack in the center to get good imaging. Overall, I feel like I’m attending a live jazz concert in a decent-sized hall where the musicians are spread 20-30 feet across and 10-15 feet deep.

Over the years, I have owned several speakers ranging from $1000 all the way to $30,000. No other speaker has put a bigger grin on my face! This is ridiculously good! So yeah, the Harbeths will be gone soon.

Thank you for sharing the link. I would have never in a million years thought about trying that ’bonkers’ configuration :)

So you have both the Harbeths and now the 3.7i’s?

It has been 15 years since I broke my 3.6’s in, I don’t recall what the tweeter did during break in, but I recall the bass was quite tight and lean until they did, then it got fuller and deeper as the panels loosened up. The old trick if you wanted to speed up the break in process was to put both speaker’s close together facing each other, and wire one out of phase, and play something like rap (god forbid).

I have upgraded everything else over the years, and keep upgrading everything else and the music keeps sounding better and better; I haven’t reached the limits of these speakers yet or my desire to change them to something else. And yeah, I enjoy Dream Theater through these planars too. If anything I will start to build a second system before I ever get rid of them.

I might add earlier this year I talked to a highly regarded US speaker manufacturer, and he uses a set of 3.6’s to voice his own "box" speakers- says from 200 Hz and up they are "perfect".

@mclinnguy I've been busy with work and travel, didn't get a chance to login to audiogon. Just to bring everyone up to speed, I acquired a pair of 1.7s which I really enjoyed. I'm not aware of too many speakers around the $3K mark that can better what the 1.7's provide. No doubt it's a phenomenal value, provided you feed it with good quality high current amplification. Contrary to what I read online, I found imaging to be quite good. Maybe not super precise like other speaker types, but I found it to be surprisingly more life-like, i.e. how you it sounds like when you attend a real event, e.g. at a jazz club. 

On the negative side, they (obviously) lack the punch and greater dynamics you would get from cone speakers. I also missed the beautiful midrange of my Harbeths. While the 1.7's have decent depth, they don't compete favorably with my Harbeths when it comes to layering.

Anyways, fast forward to today, I ended up upgrading to a brand-new pair of 3.7i's. They arrived a couple of days ago, I'm still breaking them in, but I suspect I have to be patient and wait for at least 100 hours before I form any concrete opinions. Right out of the gate, they sound much bigger, fuller, and with substantially better bass than the 1.7i's. The pure ribbon tweeter is a double-edged sword though. Phenomenal clarity and detail retrieval but can sound a bit harsh at times. I'm hoping this gets alleviated as I rack up more hours. But having said that, the life-size and life-like attributes of the 3.7i's are an aural feast that few speakers can match at this price point. The soundstage is wide, deep, and tall. The way it does instruments, especially acoustic instruments, is breath taking. 

According to Magnepan, I need to be patient and wait at least 200 hours before I make any judgements. Let's see :)

I see the op has gone back to Harbeths :) 

There are very few subwoofer make/models that integrate to a higher standard with Mags.

Other than that, it is a great value w.r.t price vs fidelity levels obtained......for dudes who don’t have to deal with 3 dogs and 5 cats (Mag abusers) running around the house.

P.S. Don't forget to put your head in a vise as well (for sweet spot optimization).

@arafiq 

just caught this thread- how you gettin on with these? The Cardas setup for dipoles is a good starting point, George has had the 3 series for many years. 

Try the Limage setup and see if you like that:

https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/MUG/217738/hk-limage-explained-sadie-is-our-in-house-expert-on-this-set-up

I tried it many months ago and I fell in love with the huge cavernous soundstage, and haven't gone back to the "conventional" setup, which for me was tweeters out, slightly toed in, triangular setup. 

The LRS+ I had were relatively close to the side wall. The most interesting aspect was that the acoustic panels on the LEFT and RIGHT for the first reflection point were NOT needed. They were needed for all other cone speaker and the Audience 1+1 V3 speaker that I tried in the small office. With the LRS+ removing the side panel improved the soundstage and did not cause any negative side effects.

The LRS+ was the easiest speaker I had for placement in my small office. I sold the LRS+ since I no longer have this room. I did use acoustic panels behind the speaker and behind my seating position.

BTW - The Sanders Magtech amp is made for Maggies (my sales plug). The KEF KC62 sub is what I used with the LRS+ set at 50hz.

Hello hello everyone....having a pair of Manepan LRS+ speakers it had me hooked. Like a nice new sports car I wanted something even sexier and decided after much debate to go with the new Magnepan 20.7X series. Been trying to find forums or places to go and find out who may actually have the "X"s and love to hear their experiences. I am nervously awaiting the arrival probably in about 10-12 weeks from now and hopefully I will not have buyer's remorse or be dissapointed but hey, I had a very brief demo recently at a dealer with the standard 20.7s and loved what they can do and as a long time panel electrostatic/panel guy I cannot see myself without a silly long grin on my face of sheer listening pleasure. Equipment wise I am all set with a pair of hefty mono blocks and also using a pair of REL 32 subs. That should adequately feed all the current they desire. Of course I will not know until they are placed in their new home which is a room of approx 30'x15' and 14' ceilings with decent sound treatment. My second backup choice of speakers were going to be the Legacy Audio Aeris or Focus SE. So please send along whatever tips/advice you can recommend with great appreciation. Happy listening.

In all my years with Maggie’s, I’ve never found sidewall position to be a problem whether they be closer or farther away. I sit about 9’ away with about 6’ behind me to the back wall. My speakers are 5.7’ apart. This is what works for MY room and MY ears. I get a fantastic 3D sound stage. I think my room treatments play a big part in this.

I think part of the fun of Maggies is experimenting with positioning. I move them close together and then gradually move them apart until it feels/sounds like there is a hole in the middle of the sound stage (laterally) and that is my starting point for micro adjustments. Trust your ears where positioning is concerned.

Thanks, @lalitk This is an itch I just had to scratch. Let's see how it goes. I feel if I'm going to have two sets of speakers (including my Harbeth 40.2s), the other one has to be a completely different kettle of fish, so to speak. 

@campoly The speakers I'm buying are pre-owned so hopefully sone break-in has already taken place. If I like what I'm hearing, I might spring for Myestands in the future. I was thinking of pulling them out between 4-5 feet from the front wall. I will probably start with tweeters facing inwards but might experiment the other way around later on,

Questions: How far should they be from the sidewalls? What is the optimal distance between listening position and speakers? Also, any guidance on how far apart the speakers should be from each other?

arafiq, give them a long break-in period. They will open up over time. In my room, I get the best imaging with the tweeters on the inside and I have the right speaker pointing to my left shoulder and the left speaker pointing to the right shoulder. They are about 4' from the front wall and the rear of the speakers actually face the front corners. I have them on Myestands which was a noticeable improvement in overall focus and pinpoint imaging. I have my room treated but found that absorption behind the speakers made them sound dull and lifeless. I hope you enjoy them as much as I have.

Congratulations, should be an interesting experience. Your Vitus is definately up to the task :-)

Well after hemming and hawing for over a year, I ‘finally’ pulled the trigger on Magnepan 1.7i. Getting the white sock color since it’ll be easier to digest by wife compared to black. Will probably have to use gloves when handling them due to the color. Will let you guys know when I receive them and set them up. In the mean time any setup tips and do’s/dont’s are appreciated.