If you say so.
The new Synergistic Research BLUE fuses ....
New SR BLUE fuse thread ...
I’ve replaced all 5 of the SR BLACK fuses in my system with the new SR BLUE fuses. Cold, out of the box, the BLUE fuses stomped the fully broken-in SR BLACKS in a big way. As good as the SR BLACK fuses were/are, especially in comparison with the SR RED fuses, SR has found another break-through in fuses.
1. Musicality ... The system is totally seamless at this point. Its as if there is no system in the room, only a wall to wall, front to back and floor to ceiling music presentation with true to life tonality from the various instruments.
2. Extension ... I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response. This has the effect of putting more meat on the bones of the instruments. Highs are very extended, breathing new life into my magic percussion recordings. Vibes, chimes, bells, and triangles positioned in the rear of the orchestra all have improved. I’ve experienced no roll-off of the highs what so ever with the new BLUE fuses. Just a more relaxed natural presentation.
3. Dynamics ... This is a huge improvement over the BLACK fuses. Piano and vibes fans ... this is fantastic.
I have a Japanese audiophile CD of Flamenco music ... the foot stomps on the stage, the hand clapping and the castanets are present like never before. Want to hear natural sounding castanets? Get the BLUE fuses.
4. Mid range ... Ha! Put on your favorite Ben Webster album ... and a pair of adult diapers. Play Chris Connor singing "All About Ronnie," its to die for.
Quick .... someone here HAS to buy this double album. Its a bargain at this price. Audiophile sound, excellent performance by the one and only Chris Connor. Yes, its mono ... but so what? Its so good you won’t miss the stereo effects. If you’re the lucky person who scores this album, please post your results here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRASONIC-CLEAN-The-Finest-Of-CHRIS-CONNOR-Bethlehem-Jazz-1975-NM-UNPLAYED-...
Overall impressions:
Where the RED fuses took about 20 hours to sound their best, and the BLACK fuses took upwards of 200 hours of total break-in, the BLUE fuses sounded really good right out of the box ... and that’s without doing anything about proper directional positioning. Not that the BLUE fuses don’t need breaking in, they do. The improvement continues through week three. Its a gradual break-in thing where each listening session is better than the last.
Everything I described above continues to break new ground in my system as the fuses continue breaking in. Quite honestly, I find it difficult to tear myself away from the system in order to get things done. Its truly been transformed into a magical music machine. With the expenditure of $150.00 and a 30 day return policy there’s really nothing to lose. In my system, its like upgrading to a better pre amp, amp, CD player or phono stage. Highly recommended.
Kudos to Ted Denney and the entire staff at SR. Amazing stuff, guys. :-)
Frank
PS: If you try the SR BLUE fuses, please post your results here. Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.
Frank
I’ve replaced all 5 of the SR BLACK fuses in my system with the new SR BLUE fuses. Cold, out of the box, the BLUE fuses stomped the fully broken-in SR BLACKS in a big way. As good as the SR BLACK fuses were/are, especially in comparison with the SR RED fuses, SR has found another break-through in fuses.
1. Musicality ... The system is totally seamless at this point. Its as if there is no system in the room, only a wall to wall, front to back and floor to ceiling music presentation with true to life tonality from the various instruments.
2. Extension ... I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response. This has the effect of putting more meat on the bones of the instruments. Highs are very extended, breathing new life into my magic percussion recordings. Vibes, chimes, bells, and triangles positioned in the rear of the orchestra all have improved. I’ve experienced no roll-off of the highs what so ever with the new BLUE fuses. Just a more relaxed natural presentation.
3. Dynamics ... This is a huge improvement over the BLACK fuses. Piano and vibes fans ... this is fantastic.
I have a Japanese audiophile CD of Flamenco music ... the foot stomps on the stage, the hand clapping and the castanets are present like never before. Want to hear natural sounding castanets? Get the BLUE fuses.
4. Mid range ... Ha! Put on your favorite Ben Webster album ... and a pair of adult diapers. Play Chris Connor singing "All About Ronnie," its to die for.
Quick .... someone here HAS to buy this double album. Its a bargain at this price. Audiophile sound, excellent performance by the one and only Chris Connor. Yes, its mono ... but so what? Its so good you won’t miss the stereo effects. If you’re the lucky person who scores this album, please post your results here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRASONIC-CLEAN-The-Finest-Of-CHRIS-CONNOR-Bethlehem-Jazz-1975-NM-UNPLAYED-...
Overall impressions:
Where the RED fuses took about 20 hours to sound their best, and the BLACK fuses took upwards of 200 hours of total break-in, the BLUE fuses sounded really good right out of the box ... and that’s without doing anything about proper directional positioning. Not that the BLUE fuses don’t need breaking in, they do. The improvement continues through week three. Its a gradual break-in thing where each listening session is better than the last.
Everything I described above continues to break new ground in my system as the fuses continue breaking in. Quite honestly, I find it difficult to tear myself away from the system in order to get things done. Its truly been transformed into a magical music machine. With the expenditure of $150.00 and a 30 day return policy there’s really nothing to lose. In my system, its like upgrading to a better pre amp, amp, CD player or phono stage. Highly recommended.
Kudos to Ted Denney and the entire staff at SR. Amazing stuff, guys. :-)
Frank
PS: If you try the SR BLUE fuses, please post your results here. Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.
Frank
2,978 responses
3 of the "Awesome Foursome" are at it again, time to bring out the sanity pitch, rather than the "snake oil’ one. The only reason to change a $2 internal mains fuse, is to just replace it with correct manufacture specified amperage, slow or fast blow, new $2 one. Not a $150 one!!!!Cheers George |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
While it is perfectly acceptable for anyone to express their opinion it is not acceptable to attack others for their subjective take on a hobby that is all about the subjective enjoyment of music. It is also not acceptalbe to drown out people with the same circular arguments that seek to invalidate experiences. These attacks are basically a straw man argument that holds an absolute objective standard must be adhered to when no such standard exists. Let me repeat this, there is absolutely NO OBJECTIVE CRITERIA OR TEST THAT EXISTS TODAY THAT CONCLUSIVELY PROVES ANY PRODUCT TO BE BETTER THAN ANY OTHER. There are simply too many variables, known and more importantly unknown that can only be taken in as a whole from a subjective standpoint. Therefore the end result is the listening to a product in the context of an audio system that ultimately establishes a product as being worthwhile or not. Anyone who claims differently does not understand what it is that High End Audio is all about in the first place. My advise to all reading this who are also tired of defending against the same tired arguments and attacks endlessly should simply IGNORE the protagonist in the same way you ignore a screaming raving lunatic on a street corner. Yours in music, Ted Denney Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc. |
NO OBJECTIVE CRITERIA OR TEST THAT EXISTS TODAY THAT CONCLUSIVELY PROVES ANY PRODUCT TO BE BETTER THAN ANY OTHERAmen, I agree. The thing is, that statement, and the arguments of this thread, cut both ways. IOW, no objective criteria or test exists today that conclusively proves the Littelfuse, Bussmann fuse, or any other fuse, to be better than the SR fuse.......and conversely. Thus, the result has been an infinite regress argument, amusing to some, irritating to others, tiring to many. |
The only point of contention with your statement is the refusal of those who say a fuse can not affect performance based on a belief, rather than an experience. That, is a great example of expectation bias: I will not hear an improvement so why bother trying? As opposed to "lets see what happens here when I change this...", which is more of a scientific approach. Just like with cables, I went through 3 different brands of fuses before I came upon one that sounded best in my system and to my tastes. All the best, Nonoise |
Not only that opinion stated by Ted, but he offers a 30 day trial of any of his products. That allows anyone and everyone to test out the product to see if it does what it professes to do and if the device is worth the change in sound if there is a difference. I haven't purchased or tried a Synergistic Research product that didn't make a sonic difference, usually to my liking but not always. I've tried about a dozen different types of equipment footers until I decided on the current iteration of Stillpoints throughout my main system. |
@ted_d Let me repeat this, there is absolutely NO OBJECTIVE CRITERIA OR TEST THAT EXISTS TODAY THAT CONCLUSIVELY PROVES ANY PRODUCT TO BE BETTER THAN ANY OTHER. Admittedly I haven’t monitored all the pages since I joined this thread but...that phrasing strikes me as a straw man. I count myself as a skeptic about fuses, but I wouldn’t be making any such claim, and I didn’t see any other skeptic make such a claim. (Unless someone has made it more recently). The issue isn’t "Proving X is better objectively" but rather "demonstrating that the difference between X and Y are actually audible." THEN we can talk about which one someone might prefer. I’d also point out that in many ways one CAN show objectively one product to be "better" than another. We just have to look at the parameters of performance we want to improve, then measure them (or do controlled tests showing people can hear one as better than the other). There are simply too many variables, known and more importantly unknown that can only be taken in as a whole from a subjective standpoint. That doesn’t sound very scientific. But then I suppose you aren’t trying to be scientific? (And if that were the case, I’d wonder on what principles you base your products?) If there are "too many variables" to test in a controlled manner, then there’s no reason to think uncontrolled subjectivity is going to do any better - in fact it’s less likely to discern between variables and likely just introduces more variables. |
geoffkait I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. No controversial audiophile tweak has ever been proven to be a hoax or fraud. prof Well...er...yes...but only if you use the word "proven" in the most uninteresting sense of that word. You haven't "proven" I don't have a magic, invisible friend, or a time-share condo I share with aliens on another planet . Whoo-hoo! >>>>>Obviously anyone can come up with totally absurd examples and play word games. |
Expressing true skepticism is perfectly acceptable. Making absolute statements that something cannot possibly make a difference, without trying it for yourself (when it is easily within your ability to do so), along with attacking & ridiculing those who disagree, is not. If I am doing a scientific study, there is a “burden of proof”. If I am sharing my experience with others who may be interested, there is no such thing. |
As some may hove noted in my previous comments, I tested the Black fuses extensively and found them to be an overpriced waste of time, a couple of them blew (a VERY rare thing otherwise) although rated to work properly, and I concluded that the Littelfuse or other stock fuses were at least equal to the performance of the SR samples in my gear. My experiment, my conclusions. Note I didn’t pay for the test fuses so there’s that, and I’m also aware of the positive comments festooned with hyperbole regarding various obscure and not so obscure tweaks. Many of the things Geoffkait promotes are so silly no reasonable audiophile (or designer/manufacturer) would bother with them, and the market has spoken regarding green pens, Tice clocks, etc. which may or may not make the case that they’re bogus. Depending on one’s desperation to improve their system perhaps needlessly, and the ability to imagine what one wants to hear, you can always hope for that self satisfied nirvana provided by the feeling that YOU know what’s what because you’re special, and it’s important to you that others know that. |
wolf_garcia ... Depending on one’s desperation to improve their system perhaps needlessly, and the ability to imagine what one wants to hear, you can always hope for that self satisfied nirvana provided by the feeling that YOU know what’s what because you’re special, and it’s important to you that others know that.And how are you any different from this person you describe ? |
tommylion, Who is making "absolute" statements? Certainly not me, and I’m unaware of any other skeptic here who has done so. This is the usual straw man. If I am doing a scientific study, there is a “burden of proof”. If I am sharing my experience with others who may be interested, there is no such thing. Of course, sharing experiences make sense. I do it all the time like anyone else. The problem comes when people "sharing experiences" insist on the veracity of their experiences against any skepticism. The "you can’t tell me I didn’t hear what I heard" reply which is so common. It’s one thing to say "I tried X and heard Y." That’s a report of a subjective experience. Fine. But anyone using critical thinking understand that this is not necessarily the most reliable method for determining whether there are "real" audible changes produced by the product, vs imagined differences. The problem is that those of the "just try it for yourself" school promote this as the right way to determine sonic differences and THAT becomes a claim that is rightly disputed. It just ignores too much of what we know about the effects of human bias and malleability of our perception. And this is the point that your comments aren’t quite getting right. In science, someone does an experiment (tries something), reports the result, and then others try to replicate (confirm) their result. Reaching a conclusion about someone else’s experiment, without bothering to try and replicate the results, seems pretty unscientific to me. But in science you recognize when an experiment has been done in a sloppy, unreliable manner! You don’t have to perform a specific experiment yourself to recognize it’s a poorly designed experiment. If it's a poorly designed experiment the results aren't going to be any more reliable if I perform it for myself, vs anyone else! If you see an "experiment" for a new medical treatment that is performed completely without control of variables, you can’t say "Well the treatment doesn’t work" but you CAN say "The method you used to evaluate the treatment is unreliable, so your conclusion is unreliable." And THAT is generally what skeptics are saying about many audiophile tweaks. Not that they ABSOLUTELY don’t work so much as the type of evidence used to support the claims are unreliable, which warrants our skepticism. (And that is combined with the fact many tweaks are based on empirical claims that are unlikely to be true GIVEN what we know about the relevant physics/engineering issues/human perceptual issues involved). |
prof, I'd have to reread all your posts, you may not have made any absolute statements. Others certainly have. You have clearly expressed your skepticism about the blue fuse. Do you have any inclination at all to try it for yourself? If not, may I ask what motivates you to continue posting on this thread? |
tommylion, I don't have an inclination to try the fuses. Which, again, is not to say they don't work or wouldn't produce an audible change in my system. My motivation for posting in the thread is, well, just having an interest in high end audio and having opinions of my own :-) And those opinions, like many other audiophiles, are relevant to a wide range of subjects in high end audio. My interest was piqued just by the heading of this thread. I then read what seemed to be an epitome of the type of ravings that make many critics (rightly so I believe) roll their eyes at audiophiles. Huge, over the top claims for the sonic difference in...fuses...which are to say the least highly dubious. For instance "I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response." Is there a technical reason why anyone should expect another octive of bass response from an audiophile fuse? Not that I'm aware of. But if there IS, it should obviously come from some measurable parameter that would identify such behavior. (And of course an octave of bass extension would be easily measurable in in-room response0. But I don't see any such evidence being presented. So what we have, very typical in the area of tweaks, claims for Big Obvious sonic alterations in the sound, with little to no evidence in support of the claim beyond someone's subjective feeling that's what he heard. And when this is pointed out, we tend to get versions of "you can't measure what I'm hearing." And this is precisely the type of "evidence" used for every crackpot claim out there, from energy healing therapies, to astrology, psychics and every new age nostrum. Does it mean fuses don't or can't alter the sound? Again: no. But the NATURE of the claims and the type of "evidence" audiophiles like Frank rely on are, I think, rightly objects of skepticism. So in my case, I count myself as an audiophile. I love high end audio equipment, have owned a lot of it over the years, and obsess about little changes like every other audiophile. But I'm also concerned with the nature of knowledge, rationality, empiricism etc (my philosophy-luvin' side) and the claims made in high end audio intersect with these concerns all the time. |
This is like someone coming upon the scene of an accident, moments after it happened. They look around, size up the scene and come to a conclusion that discounts what the persons in the accident reported. The victims even have a dash cam video of what happened but the late comer refuses to look at it, citing his unfailing ability to backward engineer the event because, a higher level of abstraction. All the best, Nonoise |
I totally understand and respect those here who have tried an aftermarket fuse and garnered no discernible sq change. Kudos to those few. However that was still in their room with their equipment and to their ears, which is still highly subjective. So said testers simply CANNOT take the stance that because they did not hear an improvement then absolutely nobody else can or should! That is utter nonsense and arrogance beyond belief. The vast majority who have reported sq change have stated it is just what they are hearing and their opinion only not that it is a fact that an aftermarket fuse WILL result in an improvement. So we need to quit with the blustering posts that proclaim it is a fact that it is impossible to hear an improvement! |
So said testers simply CANNOT take the stance that because they did not hear an improvement then absolutely nobody else can or should! uberwaltz, Honest question: Can you point to anyone who has in fact made that claim? I participated for quite a while in the thread earlier, and didn't see someone making that claim. Has it been made since, and if so by whom? Thanks! |
Prof Good question that I do not have the perfect answer for right now. If we take it as having to state in absolute terms then it may not be a statement that anybody has actually made. If we take it as insinuations and hyperbole then the answer is yes. Nice that you ignored the rest of the post though........ However I have no desire for this to drag out and spiral out of control so take care |
Absolutely not how I read it...lol The latter paragraph is most definitely a generalisation of ANYBODY making statements that it is impossible to hear a difference, not prior testers. As opposed to proponents who do not insist that you HAVE to be able to hear a difference. If you get my drift, but feel free to pick away at whichever small part you like. |
There was also the mysterious case of mapman, who seems to be laying low, who said he couldn’t hear the SR fuse, either. I think the prudent thing to do here is to throw both Wolfie’s and mapman’s negative results out. They are outliers in the context of tens of thousands of happy users of SR fuses alone not to mention the vast sea of users of other brands of aftermarket fuses, and should be dealt with accordingly. There may have been others with negative results who did not post, we’ll never know. Or others out in the general universe. Deep six them! As I keep saying, negative results don’t really mean anything, anyway if there are only a few. So not harm done. That the negative Nellies are trying to throw their weight around is hilarious. Don’t fret, somebody’s keep track, Your friend and humble scribe |
uberwaltz, So...3 of your 4 paragraphs specifically referenced the people who tested fuses, didn’t hear a difference and you criticized those posters for making "blustering" posts with absolute statements that it’s "impossible" to hear an improvement. But asking you about the subject of 3 of your 4 paragraphs is simply "picking away at a small part" of your post? Hookay. Maybe you can provide guides with your posts - color coding? - as to the parts that are actually relevant, and should be discussed, and which parts people should ignore and not respond to? Usually when I see someone devote the bulk of a post to a critique, I presume that’s the salient point of the post. But I guess I’m thick that way ;-) |
Excuse me Prof but are you reading the same post that I am? Only ONE paragraph fits your original critique, after all that ONE paragraph was all you chose to quote in your post. Now suddenly you have inflated it to THREE paragraphs? If you go back and read it CORRECTLY paragraph number 2 references testers making absolute statements, paragraph number 4 references ANYBODY making said statements. You need to reread your post as you were specifically asking about ONE paragraph and one only, again after all it was only ONE paragraph you chose to quote correct? So yes my statement stands. Colour coding? Not a bad idea but I have a better one Maybe a pop up book? But as I said this is only going to go one way I bid thee farewell. |
wolf_garcia As some may hove noted in my previous comments, I tested the Black fuses extensively and found them to be an overpriced waste of time, a couple of them blew (a VERY rare thing otherwise) although rated to work properly, and I concluded that the Littelfuse or other stock fuses were at least equal to the performance of the SR samples in my gear. >>>>>>The take away here is results were in your system. You certainly cannot extrapolate your failure to hear to say that all fuses sound the same. wolf_garcia My experiment, my conclusions. Note I didn’t pay for the test fuses so there’s that, and I’m also aware of the positive comments festooned with hyperbole regarding various obscure and not so obscure tweaks. >>>>>It’s not everyday you see the word festooned used in a sentence. Congrats! wolf_garcia Many of the things Geoffkait promotes are so silly no reasonable audiophile (or designer/manufacturer) would bother with them, and the market has spoken regarding green pens, Tice clocks, etc. which may or may not make the case that they’re bogus. >>>>Well, to be fair I don’t actually promote them. I use them as examples of things people like you think are obscure or obvious hoaxes. Capish? wolf_garcia Depending on one’s desperation to improve their system perhaps needlessly, and the ability to imagine what one wants to hear, you can always hope for that self satisfied nirvana provided by the feeling that YOU know what’s what because you’re special, and it’s important to you that others know that. >>>>Whatever. |
prof, Thank you for the cordial and reasoned reply to my question. Posts like this are a welcome part of the discussion as far as I am concerned. We may disagree on some things, but I can respect your reasons for contributing to this thread. I can also respect your reasons for choosing not to try the fuses. In my experience they are remarkable, though. I've had my share of experience with products that don't live up to expectations in this hobby, and I hate to see a fellow enthusiast miss out on one that really does live up to the claims. |
What a waste of time this product is and so is this thread. The designer claims no way to prove his products are better than any other. The same designer makes several color fuses at different price points. How can one make a tiered range of products without any way to determine if any of them are better than the other? So in conclusion, it is all just random. This is no better than selling audiophiles a range of listening enhancement head gear at various prices: a pair of dear antlers or moose antlers or elk antlers. The only difference being that audiophiles might feel foolish wearing antlers on their head while they can feel quite smug and elitist about a special fuse. Especially when only the most resolving systems will benefit. |
uberwaltz, Either you have trouble communicating...or you are just desperate to disavow what you even wrote. What I wrote: prof: So...3 of your 4 paragraphs specifically referenced the people who tested fuses, didn’t hear a difference and you criticized those posters for making "blustering" posts with absolute statements that it’s "impossible" to hear an improvement. Let's see if this description is apt. What you wrote: P1: I totally understand and respect those here who have tried an aftermarket fuse and garnered no discernible sq change. Kudos to those few.However that was still in their room with their equipment and to their ears, which is still highly subjective. ^^^ Identified the people you are talking about in the post, and beginning a critique of the relevance of their findings. P2: So said testers simply CANNOT take the stance that because they did not hear an improvement then absolutely nobody else can or should! ^^^^ Talking about those same people and criticising them for drawing arrogant, absolutist conclusions. P4: So we need to quit with the blustering posts that proclaim it is a fact that it is impossible to hear an improvement! ^^^^ Clearly continuing your critique of the people making such posts, such as you referenced in your first two paragraphs. So, yeah, 3 of your 4 paragraphs were obviously, undeniably, concerned with the people you claim have made blustering claims about "impossible" improvements. (Which is why I asked for evidence they were making such claims). I don't see what you mean to gain by denying the obvious content of your own posts (why not just support what you wrote?), but the internet is strange that way. |
🐩 shadorne What a waste of time this product is and so is this thread. The designer claims no way to prove his products are better than any other. The same designer makes several color fuses at different price points. How can one make a tiered range of products without any way to determine if any of them are better than the other? >>>>Actually the designer makes no such tiered range of products as you claim. If you can’t keep up with the discussion maybe best to be silent, and you wouldn’t look so foolish by expressing your silly theory. |
shadorne The same designer makes several color fuses at different price points. Really!!!!!!! Red , Black, then Blue all at different price points. AND!!!! each one said by the "Awesome Foursome" to transform your system to another level, even more so than the one before. ALSO!!!!!! they are all directional in an AC (alternating current) environment that changes 60 x a second.. And then none of this "snake oil" is back up in any way with the same wording by SR here publicly. Cheers George |
Maybe not tiered but certainly an "upgrade" from each consecutive one once it lost it's BS "snake oil" appeal, at ever increased pricing. And I’m not starting to loose it, unlike you already have. You’ve really got to get rid of that website of yours as it’s a dead give away. https://www.machinadynamica.com/machina60.htm Cheers George |
Hello everyone, I'm back... This whole post especially the last 1/4 reminds me of the great scene by Abbot and Costello "Who's on first base...." The main protagonists are commenting on the just previous comments, and on it goes. The question still remains, do Blue fuses make the significant change that some audiophiles say they do irrespective of the equipment used (has anyone used them for equipment that is not HiFi?), OR, do they not make a discernible change to some systems? As there is no PROOF either way as per... a fact or piece of information that shows that something exists or is true: [ + that ] Do they have any proof that it was Hampson who stole the goods? I have a suspicion that he's having an affair, though I don't have any concrete (= definite) proof. If anyone needs proof of Andrew Davies' genius as a writer, this novel is it. "How old are you?" "21." "Do you have any proof on you?" Keep your receipt as proof of purchase. More examples [- that]
Is something right because people think the [thing] is right? Is something wrong because people think the [thing] is wrong? This post has indicated that people will accept the opinion of a large group of posters, and there are those that will not accept that way of opinion and want facts, evidence (as per experiment results) or unequivocable proof. Two opinions. Ok. So what? |
