It is nice that designer Ted Denney with Synergistic Research Inc. is participating on this thread. I have found it insightful when designers/manufacturers show up here to discuss and help us understand their products. Unfortunately, Ted's posts here have largely reiterated SR's marketing rhetoric about how they believe their fuses sound, but have not answered the technology-based questions that have been asked here about how any fuse, and specifically their fuses, can affect the tone and sound of a system to the degree indicated by both their marketing advertisements and by many of their fuse users. I am also curious about how they are moving the technology forward to the point where each of four iterations of fuses can have such a reportedly "profound" improvement over the previous iteration. Thanks for any insights.
The new Synergistic Research BLUE fuses ....
New SR BLUE fuse thread ...
I’ve replaced all 5 of the SR BLACK fuses in my system with the new SR BLUE fuses. Cold, out of the box, the BLUE fuses stomped the fully broken-in SR BLACKS in a big way. As good as the SR BLACK fuses were/are, especially in comparison with the SR RED fuses, SR has found another break-through in fuses.
1. Musicality ... The system is totally seamless at this point. Its as if there is no system in the room, only a wall to wall, front to back and floor to ceiling music presentation with true to life tonality from the various instruments.
2. Extension ... I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response. This has the effect of putting more meat on the bones of the instruments. Highs are very extended, breathing new life into my magic percussion recordings. Vibes, chimes, bells, and triangles positioned in the rear of the orchestra all have improved. I’ve experienced no roll-off of the highs what so ever with the new BLUE fuses. Just a more relaxed natural presentation.
3. Dynamics ... This is a huge improvement over the BLACK fuses. Piano and vibes fans ... this is fantastic.
I have a Japanese audiophile CD of Flamenco music ... the foot stomps on the stage, the hand clapping and the castanets are present like never before. Want to hear natural sounding castanets? Get the BLUE fuses.
4. Mid range ... Ha! Put on your favorite Ben Webster album ... and a pair of adult diapers. Play Chris Connor singing "All About Ronnie," its to die for.
Quick .... someone here HAS to buy this double album. Its a bargain at this price. Audiophile sound, excellent performance by the one and only Chris Connor. Yes, its mono ... but so what? Its so good you won’t miss the stereo effects. If you’re the lucky person who scores this album, please post your results here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRASONIC-CLEAN-The-Finest-Of-CHRIS-CONNOR-Bethlehem-Jazz-1975-NM-UNPLAYED-...
Overall impressions:
Where the RED fuses took about 20 hours to sound their best, and the BLACK fuses took upwards of 200 hours of total break-in, the BLUE fuses sounded really good right out of the box ... and that’s without doing anything about proper directional positioning. Not that the BLUE fuses don’t need breaking in, they do. The improvement continues through week three. Its a gradual break-in thing where each listening session is better than the last.
Everything I described above continues to break new ground in my system as the fuses continue breaking in. Quite honestly, I find it difficult to tear myself away from the system in order to get things done. Its truly been transformed into a magical music machine. With the expenditure of $150.00 and a 30 day return policy there’s really nothing to lose. In my system, its like upgrading to a better pre amp, amp, CD player or phono stage. Highly recommended.
Kudos to Ted Denney and the entire staff at SR. Amazing stuff, guys. :-)
Frank
PS: If you try the SR BLUE fuses, please post your results here. Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.
Frank
I’ve replaced all 5 of the SR BLACK fuses in my system with the new SR BLUE fuses. Cold, out of the box, the BLUE fuses stomped the fully broken-in SR BLACKS in a big way. As good as the SR BLACK fuses were/are, especially in comparison with the SR RED fuses, SR has found another break-through in fuses.
1. Musicality ... The system is totally seamless at this point. Its as if there is no system in the room, only a wall to wall, front to back and floor to ceiling music presentation with true to life tonality from the various instruments.
2. Extension ... I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response. This has the effect of putting more meat on the bones of the instruments. Highs are very extended, breathing new life into my magic percussion recordings. Vibes, chimes, bells, and triangles positioned in the rear of the orchestra all have improved. I’ve experienced no roll-off of the highs what so ever with the new BLUE fuses. Just a more relaxed natural presentation.
3. Dynamics ... This is a huge improvement over the BLACK fuses. Piano and vibes fans ... this is fantastic.
I have a Japanese audiophile CD of Flamenco music ... the foot stomps on the stage, the hand clapping and the castanets are present like never before. Want to hear natural sounding castanets? Get the BLUE fuses.
4. Mid range ... Ha! Put on your favorite Ben Webster album ... and a pair of adult diapers. Play Chris Connor singing "All About Ronnie," its to die for.
Quick .... someone here HAS to buy this double album. Its a bargain at this price. Audiophile sound, excellent performance by the one and only Chris Connor. Yes, its mono ... but so what? Its so good you won’t miss the stereo effects. If you’re the lucky person who scores this album, please post your results here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRASONIC-CLEAN-The-Finest-Of-CHRIS-CONNOR-Bethlehem-Jazz-1975-NM-UNPLAYED-...
Overall impressions:
Where the RED fuses took about 20 hours to sound their best, and the BLACK fuses took upwards of 200 hours of total break-in, the BLUE fuses sounded really good right out of the box ... and that’s without doing anything about proper directional positioning. Not that the BLUE fuses don’t need breaking in, they do. The improvement continues through week three. Its a gradual break-in thing where each listening session is better than the last.
Everything I described above continues to break new ground in my system as the fuses continue breaking in. Quite honestly, I find it difficult to tear myself away from the system in order to get things done. Its truly been transformed into a magical music machine. With the expenditure of $150.00 and a 30 day return policy there’s really nothing to lose. In my system, its like upgrading to a better pre amp, amp, CD player or phono stage. Highly recommended.
Kudos to Ted Denney and the entire staff at SR. Amazing stuff, guys. :-)
Frank
PS: If you try the SR BLUE fuses, please post your results here. Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.
Frank
Showing 30 responses by mitch2
Lots of name-calling going on here. I sort of understand it coming from Frank since he is OP and defender of the faith but from you Geoff, stirrer of the pot, I have come to expect more originality. There are many designers/manufacturers here who have shared information about their designs without divulging the Colonel's secret recipe. Even Geoff provides a whole section of "Technical Explanations" on his website, describing how his products work, although I usually take a couple of hits and eat a mushroom before I can achieve an appropriate level of consciousness to even begin to understand. If Ted wants to explain some stuff, then I am all ears and maybe will learn something. If not, or if I only read more about how great these fuses sound, then nothing changes except Ted's bank account. Funny thing Frank, I actually have a Pioneer receiver in my HT system (guilty as charged) so I guess I better get back to that. |
Au contraire mon frère, below is the lowdown. Note that it conditions power cables so mid to high amperage power fuses should be a walk in the park. I suspect Alan has a recommendation for conditioning lower amperage fuses as well. Lots of folks use it for outlets, in-wall Romex, binding posts, and other stuff. From the FAQ on the website; What type of cables can be conditioned? The Cable Cooker can condition most types of audio/video cabling. The front panel includes RCA, BNC, and XLR connectors, plus 5-way speaker binding posts. These binding posts accept spade terminations, banana terminations, and of course, tinned or bare wire. The Cooker does not have an S-video connector on it, but Radio Shack or other popular commercial suppliers have an RCA-to-S video adaptor that may be used to condition that type of cable. Microphone cables, guitar cables, and some headphone cables can be conditioned as well with the use of a ¼” plug-to-RCA adaptor. In addition to interconnects, speaker cables, and power cables, the Cable Cooker can accommodate USB cables, Ethernet cables, and coaxial antenna / satellite receiver cables. |
@geoffkait I put together a device similar to the linked video below to my burn in for the SR blacks for about a four days. Given what I heard, it seems to have taken the fuse about ~85% of the way there with another jump in performance after it settled in for another 12-15 hours. Hope that helps.gltyrian, it is not going to "help" geoff for the simple reason he listens to his music through a battery-powered walkman and doesn't use fuses or cables. He just likes to keep the embers burning in the cable and fuse threads around here. BTW, here is what the manufacturer of the Cable Cooker has to say about conditioning fuses. The speaker cable/power cable circuit delivers 1.88A steady-state, so be sure the power line fuses are well above that capacity. The interconnect circuit delivers 120mA of current, so that's a much easier level. Either method (or circuit) will provide some conditioning for the fuses.I am still curious whether anyone here has actually tried conditioning fuses with this device and, if so, what outcome you perceived. |
A real DIYer could figure out how to inject beeswax into a fuse. His hard could it be? 🐝Excellent point Geoff. I have actually thought of this. Drill a small hole, use a small needle, heat up the beeswax, solder the hole closed, etc. etc...... I once made those carbon fiber CD mats using a hole punch and sheet carbon fiber. Exactly like what they were selling for over $100 each. There is no magic to this stuff.....possible exception of the Teleportation Tweak, Super Intelligent Chip, etc..... |
Thank you Geoff for the public service announcement on the number of fuses available. I have to say the Brimar fuses are new to me and I was interested to see they utilize "48 hours of Telos Quantum Cooking." Are they smoking them over low heat? Are they smoking something? I suspect the Brimar people have paid Telos to cook their fuses since it seems Telos is a company from Taiwan that makes a bunch of quantum stuff, including their own fuses (thanks for the tip Geoff). They make so much quantum stuff they have their own "Telos Quantum Technique" as well as a "Telos Quantum X2 Technique." They make a cool Quantum Magnetic Tuning Device which sort of looks like a bulls-eye on a circuit board. It is said to "improve any existing audio system" which opens the product up to a vast ocean of potential purchasers. Another super-cool thing they make is a sheet of really small round stickers with adhesive backing that you can apply to just about anything in your audio system, if you want to "experience the advantage of the Quantum X2 technology." In addition to the cool red color and snazzy ATOM Symbol U+269B (modified with a "t" in the middle for Telos), the description uses a lot of tweaky scientific words and phrases like "far-infrared" and more. Far-infrared is also a heating technology that is used in expensive infrared saunas using low watt density ceramic emitters which emit relatively low temperature long wave infrared radiation. If you don't want a ceramic heater, you can purchase the stickers for only $100 for a sheet of 20 stickers, which seems like a bargain. |
"strike the offenders"Really!? Lots of aggressive jargon being thrown around in this thread. Over almost 20 years here, I cannot ever remember a time when everyone liked the same flavor of Kool-Aid. There were always differing opinions and people calling each other out on stuff but it was often done with a bit of humor and most folks took it in stride. People seem a little more thin-skinned these days. Maybe we should all just have a big game of dodgeball... |
Wolf, your wife may like it because it is red. I know several women who really like the color red and
a sample of 1,974 men and women showed that more women chose red as their favorite color than men. As you point out, it is also important not to forego quantum considerations when discussing the goop you choose to use in your stereo system. I also use DeoxIT and it works great for me but I am sure it would be better if they charged more for it. |
Marketing of this stuff is off the rails. Throwing out scientific jargon has become a favorite marketing tactic to convince audiophiles that everyday stuff like wires, fuses, goop, and more can perform seemingly normal tasks in an extraordinary manner to transform stereo systems to a level that is nothing short of magical. Favorites include "Quantum," (catapulted into popularity by the Bybee stuff) "Nano" (the poor-man's "Quantum" ), "Inductive coupling" (basically an electromagnetic relationship between two conductors), “micro” (mostly replaced by quantum and nano), and on, and on, and on…. It amazes me how audiophiles describe the level of improvements they hear from these every day-type products, on the order of a component upgrade, and yet when the next product comes along with more extraordinary claims, the initial product is mostly forgotten while the cycle starts all over again. I find the whole business fascinating. |
"it's been shown that there are engineers who've tried fuses and though they can't explain why they make an improvement, they accept it. They know more than the naysayers here, make better products than just tinkering with junk at home, read the same manuals, are better educated, and still have the ability to keep an open mind."So, because somebody accepts something they can't explain, they "know more" are "better educated" and have an "open mind" compared to people who either don't perceive a difference or who don't buy into the level of difference reported by others here? Give me a break....I doubt you know who is or is not "better educated" and blanket disparaging statements like that are what start the fireworks around here. |
Second, most aftermarket fuses are around $20 so unless your live in a tree house you shouldn’t have too much trouble financing a fuse.Geoff, you may need to move to a higher-end tree house. Even the pedestrian SR20 fuses that the faithful here have blown by long ago cost $30. The blacks and blues that most here are discussing cost $120 and $150, respectively. You must be buying your fuses from the guy in the white van with black and blue spray paint on his hands, oh...but wait....your system doesn't use fuses. Speaking of manufacturers, below is an interesting post about aftermarket fuses from earlier this week by a designer-manufacturer of well-regarded DACs, amplifiers, and other electronics, "Depending the type of product we use transformers in a range between 15 and 30 VA. It means that the primary windings are as thin as monkey hair and will have a length of approx. 100 meters. The resistance of this primary copper winding is about 60-90 Ohms so what will be the effect of one centimeter of fuse wire compared to the primary copper wire." |
"because the benefits of aftermarket fuses are audible immediately"Really Geoff, help me understand how you know this - that you state as fact - or are you repeating hearsay? You have repeatedly told us you do not use fuses, yet you continue to post ad nauseam about fuses and wire directionality. I certainly do not disagree with your premise that wire, which has been drawn, has a directionality that can be discerned under microscopy. What I disagree with is that the directionality could possibly be audible in a home stereo system, particularly the directionality of the 2 to 3.2 cm of wire in a line fuse. How about you post your system here on Audiogon, you know....the system you use to evaluate fuses and wire directionality, so the rest of us can understand better where you are coming from. It is helpful to know a little bit about the systems posters are listening to for context as to their perceptions. |
"Most aftermarket fuses are what, about twenty bucks? So give us a break."Ok Geoff, I get it, your prodigious posting on this subject is based on what you read that others have posted and on your memory from before the Walkman days. Your reading seems fine but I am still a little skeptical about the memory part since you seem to have trouble remembering the fuse economics lesson from four days ago, when I posted.... "Even the pedestrian SR20 fuses that the faithful here have blown by long ago cost $30. The blacks and blues that most here are discussing cost $120 and $150, respectively."Try and keep up. |
They'd have to test each and every fuse for directionality, adding to the cost.Not really. If directionality is a function of the wire production (as Geoff suggests) and not the fuse body or end caps, then, assuming the wire comes off a spool, SR should know exactly which direction is optimal and be able to account for that in their machinery and their tiny elves that paint arrows on the fuses. |
Good idea OP - buy the fuse, try the fuse, 646 hours, turn it around, 646 hours, return it, receive/install replacement, 646 hours, turn it around, 646 hours, and then, and only then, if you don't like it you can return it for your refund. I have like 18 fuses in my system, so I should be able to have my fuses squared away sometime before 2020. I think I need an owner's manual. |
@nonoise Here is another video of a fuse manufacturing machine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47mBkCTWQJs that shows the element soldered to one end cap first. If SR thought directionality were so important it seems they could mark the end cap that the element is first soldered to, maintain one directionality of the wire, and then basically, Bob is your uncle. I can't believe SR would risk having up to half of their $150 fuses being returned for not working as advertised when the only problem is that the fuse should be turned around. Notice the end result is a purple fuse....I hope I didn't let the cat out of the bag on the color of the new SR fuse.....did anybody say $200? |
@geoffkait , since you are correct about the wave thing, and how the signal is an electromagnetic wave containing photons [which are packets of energy (but no mass) that do in fact travel at the speed of light (in a vacuum) but only about 0.7 to 0.9 times the speed of light in a copper wire], then you understand how the water in a pipe analogy often used by audiophiles is in fact "all wet," particularly since the wave travels outside of the wire. Unfortunately, none of that does anything to promote how the "direction" of a couple of centimeters of wire in a fuse can audibly affect the sound of a system relative to
100 meters of primary copper winding in a transformer. @dwstudeman , thanks for reminding me how much I like taking things apart, such as highly regarded cables and fuses, and looking inside of equipment. It is unfortunate when I find something less than advertised (like the high-end power cord that consisted of three common THHN wires, a cheap PVC tube and some goop). It is also the reason that I am skeptical of components, wires, and doo-dads of any sort that come with any a warning or caution that opening them will void the warranty (or unleash evil spirits, etc.). I would not purchase a car without looking under the hood, but that's just me. It is also the reason I respect the manufacturers who take the time to explain their products in a rational manner (without invoking mystical powers) and actually show us pictures of the insides so we know what we are getting for our money. |
None of this should be surprising. Businesses offer consumers many products that are marketed through a combination of technical analysis (with varying degrees of scientific validity) and emotionally oriented brand promises. The goal of these businesses is to sell products, not necessarily to "prove" that their products perform exactly as advertised. The higher the price of entry into a hobby (think exotic cars, swimming pools, boats, and of course stereo systems) the more money there is to be made from ancillary stuff. The performance metrics of some of this stuff are subjective and would be difficult to measure in order to definitively "prove" the level of performance. Therefore, the relationship between the advertised performance, the expected performance, and the actual performance is often subject to the perceptions of the purchaser. Arguing about it isn't going to change anything. |
Geoff, thanks for posting the
pseudoskepticism dissertation. It seems old
Marcello had a soft spot for the scientific agnostic (a.k.a. skeptic, doubter, doubting Thomas, cynic, unbeliever, nonbeliever, rationalist). Are you suggesting a new category here on the SA Blue thread or are none of the pseudoskeptics qualified to ascend to the level of a scientific skeptic? BTW, I gotta ask, were you previously familiar with the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), based on their study of the Teleportation Tweak? |
@geoffkait
It could be simply the buzz that convinces a potential customer.Good one Geoff, I think there are a lot of "buzzed" audiophiles....Happy belated 4/20! Look, we can argue the science but we can't effectively argue perception, which can be influenced by a variety of stimuli, including what we (believe we) hear and not excluding visual appearances of things (think red, black, blue - I think purple is next), as well as the "buzz" we read about. The reason there will never be a "resolution" to this thread that satisfies both believers and non-believers, is that would require alignment of both the science argument and the perception argument - just ain't gonna happen. |
NO OBJECTIVE CRITERIA OR TEST THAT EXISTS TODAY THAT CONCLUSIVELY PROVES ANY PRODUCT TO BE BETTER THAN ANY OTHERAmen, I agree. The thing is, that statement, and the arguments of this thread, cut both ways. IOW, no objective criteria or test exists today that conclusively proves the Littelfuse, Bussmann fuse, or any other fuse, to be better than the SR fuse.......and conversely. Thus, the result has been an infinite regress argument, amusing to some, irritating to others, tiring to many. |
Typical sales jargon when selling to audiophiles, first be sure to include the word “quantum” in any context whatsoever, and then dumb things down with an analogy to some unrelated physical phenomenon....like water in a pipe, a dirty pane of glass wiped clean or, indeed, the wave at a football game - that certainly reassures me that my $160 would be well spent. At least they stuck to the game plan.....if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. |