The new Synergistic Research BLUE fuses ....

^^^  

And in the meantime, tens of thousands of SR fuses have been sold to satisfied customers. 

Carry on lads ...

Frank

Aye aye Captain!

And in the meantime, tens of thousands of SR fuses have been sold to satisfied customers.

And homeopaths will point out that millions around the world - 100 million in India alone! - have been sold homeopathic medicine.

All those people can't be wrong can they?  Diluting a substance until there is literally none of it left except it's magic powers MUST be true!

;-)

Or how about, "Of course we're right--all six of us."  Compared to the hundreds who endorse SR fuses, the know-it-alls here are like the drunk who enters the freeway via the exit ramp and then curses all the idiots going the wrong way.   

the know-it-alls here are like the drunk who enters the freeway via the exit ramp and then curses all the idiots going the wrong way.

Or a bit like the idiot who tries an ac mains fuse in different directions expecting to hear a difference, when he knows AC is alternating current that swaps itself 60 x a second.

Cheers George 

George, Wolf and company are like the guys who joined a recovery group for delusional thinking disorders--confessing to each other they used to go on this site and mock hundreds of other guys, lecturing them they could not possibly be hearing what they are hearing when the recovery group had never even tried to hear what they claim the others are not hearing. 

prof

“And in the meantime, tens of thousands of SR fuses have been sold to satisfied customers.”

And homeopaths will point out that millions around the world - 100 million in India alone! - have been sold homeopathic medicine.

All those people can’t be wrong can they? Diluting a substance until there is literally none of it left except it’s magic powers MUST be true!

>>>>That’s highly illogical, Captain. It’s an Appeal to ridicule. That’s like saying people who believe in wire directionality probably believe in UFOs. It’s a personal attack AND a logical fallacy. Two mints in one!

And the "Awesome Foursome" sincerely welcome the return of Captain Caveman!

profs"And homeopaths will point out that millions around the world - 100 million in India alone! - have been sold homeopathic medicine. All those people can't be wrong can they?"

Of course none of that has anything to do with the topics under discussion here at all it is another logical fallacy which this group abounds with and they are furthered by those unwilling or unable to actually experiment with some of the devices methods and protocols that are discussed hear and the best that many of these people can do is say "well be honest with your self and test it" when in fact we are testing it that is the problem that people like "profs" don't bother to do they're homework before coming here and then argue they're nonsense with those who actually have real first hand practical experience!

geoffkait,

Please brush up on your understanding of fallacies. You’ve completely misunderstood what should have been the obvious point. No my post was not a personal attack at all, and does not even imply oregonpapa believes any of those other things. In fact, if anything it relies on the opposite: that he or others here will recognize other dubious beliefs as fallacious (like homeopathy).

oregonpapa’s post obviously implied, against the skepticism of a few here, that the a far larger number of people - tens of thousands! - have bought fuses believing they make a difference.

Insofar as that is meant to imply the truth of the disputed claim "fuses make a sonic difference," it’s a fallacious argument.

It’s been recognized as a fallacy for a looooong time and it’s called:

Argumentum ad populum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

And I rightly replied to this fallacy with a type of reductio ad absurdum:
Taking the same logic ("so many people believe it, it must be true") and showing the same appeal large groups of believers can support an absurdity ("look how many customers believe homeopathy works, homeopathy must be true"). So, since this for of appeal doesn’t help distinguish the truth of the matter, it’s a poor form of rebuttal.

Hope that clears things up for you ;-)

And, anyone paying attention will note: Nothing in my reply argued that fuses DO NOT make a sonic difference. Only that the type of arguments and evidence on offer are of dubious quality.

prof"And, anyone paying attention will note: Nothing in my reply argued that fuses DO NOT make a sonic difference. Only that the type of arguments and evidence on offer are of dubious quality."

If you're intention hear is to expose the "dubious quality" of the "arguments and evidence" hear then you would be well advised to continue you're studies with a particular emphasis on logic which although you seem to be able to paste in some details of from Wikipedia or where ever you  obviously do not understand you are stuck in a mode of simply attacking criticizing and faulting without on your part offering any meaningful significant or reasoned response other than "I don't like what he says so I'll just keep arguing with him."

Look, professor, you can’t have it both ways. Either fuses make a difference and are audible or they’re not. Make up your mind. Stop sitting on the fence. Hearing is a human sensory perception - that’s how we observe our audible surroundings. That’s how we distinguish various levels of audio performance, by listening. Humans easily distinguish types of car engines, types of aircraft engines, types of bird calls. Why not fuses. Is everyone lying? Are 70,000 people under hypnosis. Seems rather unlikely. What does seem likely is that your a pseudo skeptic who is grasping at straws. What we have is 70,000 happy campers and several stubborn pseudo skeptics who don’t know when it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee. ☕️

geoffkait"Look, professor, you can’t have it both ways. Either fuses make a difference and are audible or they’re not. Make up your mind."

They will not make up they're minds because then they would have to actually defend they're ideas opinions and positions which would be more difficult and challenging then just coming here and stirring the pot to further argumentation among particpants!

Argumentum ad populum

Is that the same as stercus quod est onus Domini?

clearthink,

If you could reformulate what amounts to your "complaints" into an actual coherent argument against what I’ve actually argued here, then we could have a discussion. If you could actually point to anything I’ve written - not something you imagined I wrote but that I actually wrote - as untrue, or unreasonable, then your complaints may have some footing. But until then....you are just complaining when someone voices skepticism. boo-hoo.

geoffkait,

Look, professor, you can’t have it both ways. Either fuses make a difference and are audible or they’re not. Make up your mind.

Again, you’ve confused yourself. The only way you could imagine I’m trying to "have it both ways" and can’t "make up my mind" is that
you’ve confused a real dichotomy with a false dichotomy.

Real dichotomy: Fuses make an audible difference or they do not.

False Dichotomy: You have to either BELIEVE fuses make an audible difference or BELIEVE they do not.

See the rather important difference there?

Something may be true, or not true, but that OBVIOUSLY doesn’t entail you must accept one or the other, before having good reason you know which is true! If a new medical treatment for high blood pressure is proposed, well it’s either efficacious or it isn’t. But how does a rational people decide this? "Let’s take a vote! Who believes it works, who doesn’t? Ok, that’s 45 for the proposition it works, 20 for the proposition it doesn’t work. It’s settled then, our new blood pressure medicine works!"

Of course not, right? You withhold your conclusion UNTIL the good evidence comes in. (Though, given your website, which until recently I thought was entirely a lark, I’m starting to infer maybe you don’t actually understand these basic principles?)

Your argument is absurd. Humans easily distinguish types of car engines, types of aircraft engines, types of bird calls. Why not fuses. Is everyone lying?

Another false dichotomy from you, geoff. If the sonic difference between fuses are not audible, the choice isn’t between people "lying" or "telling the truth." They can simply be "mistaken" and that is the variable some of us skeptics are raising. (And it’s amazing the resistance people here have to just considering they may actually...gasp!...be mistaken! And ironically it’s the skeptics that they imply are arrogant.)

I wasn’t "lying" when I thought certain cables sounded completely and obviously different from others in my system. But my subsequent testing suggested I WAS mistaken. (When tested "blind" and I didn’t know which cable was being used, there were no such obvious differences allowing me to identify any difference).

The sonic differences between cars, people’s voices, bird calls etc are large and understood to be well into the threshhold of audibility. And you can measure those differences. (In fact, just now I’m going through various jet sounds for a show I’m doing sound for, and the waveform output and frequency profiles are obviously different).

But the claim of sonic differences between audiophile boutique fuses and regular (competently employed) fuses in a component is not so well established, and is in fact an area of controversy. And if the type of measurements pointed to earlier in the thread are the best we’ve got in support of the claim, then they still leave plenty of room for doubt (the inadequacies have already been pointed out, and they amount to the fact that even the attempts of the author to explain their effects were highly speculative, and did not even demonstrate the *audible* difference in either case).

And then if all we have beyond that are audiophiles saying "I heard a difference" then, as I say, this doesn’t rise above the level of "evidence" discerning from perceptual error/bias effects, that plague so many other tweak-claims.

Are 70,000 people under hypnosis?

Are a hundred million people believing the claims of homeopathy under hypnosis?

^^^^ Please recognize the reductio ad absurdum this time, geoff ;)
That is, presuming you understand homeopathy is bunk....which I admit it may not be so wise to presume...;-)

Geoff, do you really not understand at all why there is the scientific method in the first place?

If researchers want to get confirmation (strong evidential support) that a medical treatment is efficacious - whether it’s homeopathy, or an allergy treatment or whatever - do you think they just give it to people and ask "Well? You’ve received treatment for your problem, how do you feel?"

No. They set up blind and double blind studies, control groups on placebos, etc.

Do you know why they do this? Why simply taking the subjective report of people, without reducing the variables of our well documented forms of bias....isn't a good method?   And do you not know our perceptual biases extend everywhere, including to audio?

Do you know why, for instance, when you go for a hearing test it’s a blind test? (You aren’t given any other visual cue as to when a tone is being played)?

And...again...yet again!...do you understand that none of the cautions I raise in support of my skepticism amounts to my claiming fuses "don’t make a difference?"

Is nuance that hard to grasp?

Uberwaltz…the components you describe were improved or tinkered with because they actually do have an impact on the way things work, engineers and designers know that…cable capacitance/resistance, ratings and formulas for caps and things, transformer design…all have a tonal role in the sound of gear. Fuses don't, and really, I doubt designers care about them beyond the ratings and placement…if they're not working properly things just shut off, or of they're poorly made they can blow when they shouldn't (trust me on that one). That's what they do and coating them with stuff, bombarding them with high voltage mojo inducing silliness, putting precious end caps on 'em…still…it's a tiny wire trying not to melt. That's it. All one can do is claim they do things to some utterly exaggerated degree because you paid through the nose for a $2 fuse, and you really need to feel that something's happening. It's a poor little fuse, or a Littelfuse, or it's blue…tiny wire, no tone controls or magic current massage…no nuthin' except hype by hard sell.

@prof - Whatever. Obviously nobody is going to be able to flip a died in the wool 🐑 pseudo skeptic. I gave up trying a long time ago. I just enjoy picking apart pseudo skeptics’ phoney baloney arguments. 🤡 Thanks for the nice game of whack a mole.

Blind tests are for sissies. No serious person uses them for anything in the high end, you know, where there are no hearing issues. Blinds tests are only used as some sort of threat by pseudo skeptics. “Betcha can’t pass a blind test!” Are you channeling The Amazing Randi? Give me a break!

Ok geoff,

If, when your objections are shown to be fallacious, you (and some others) prefer to fall back on complaining and name calling, so be it.

The blame, then, for crappy conversations about tweaks like these can hardly be put simply in the lap of the skeptics.

Though, I don't see why that level of discourse is preferable to providing a careful argument for a position.


 

Though, I don’t see why that level of discourse is preferable to providing a careful argument for a position.

Obviously, to anyone who can read, this thread is about convincing others to buy the fuses. Anything that does not support that goal, is a threat and must be discredited. Often viciously. Pretty simple. Hard to have legitimate discourse under those conditions. It’s also hard for me to understand what kind of legitimate seller would even want this ugliness on display regarding their product but that is another story.  

Some also may legitimately be offended that others are telling them they can’t hear what they claim to hear. But that message gets lost in the flood of hyperbole.

Mapman
Rarely do I take umbrage at anything you state but on this I disagree.

Obviously, to anyone who can read, this thread is about convincing others to buy the fuses. Anything that does not support that goal, is a threat and must be discredited.

I am sorry but the title of the thread and the positive posts from many have absolutely NOTHING to do with trying to persuade others to buy an aftermarket fuse whatsoever! In fact to read that into some of the posts shows you just cannot be reading them at all.

Personally I could not care less if another living soul buys an aftermarket fuse or not!

This thread IMHO was about one thing and one thing only.

Reporting ones experience with said SR Blue fuses, nothing more at all.

Nobody here is on the SR payroll, I believe what I hear whether others do or not and I tell it like I hear it, period.

Wolf
I understand your arguments there for sure, however I wonder why some manufacturers have heard differences when going from a fuse to a circuit breaker and indeed from a circuit breaker to nothing in the ac path at all?
Not sure how that is explained away by the fuse just being a little piece of wire designed to melt?
Just postulating here, tbh I really have no idea why they work in my system for me, all I know is that they do.
And honestly, $150, in hifi terms it really is small change and when backed by a 30 day money back guarantee, I honestly do not think I am falling prey to " financial expectation bias" at all.

Just my thoughts....

uberwaltz,

Personally I could not care less.....

Can I just report my personal gratitude for your proper use of this phrase?

:-)

How about people just being excited about an audio product that actually provides the benefits it claims to, and wanting to share their experience with other enthusiasts? Nah, that can't be, there has to be some other darker hidden motive. Does everything have to be a conspiracy or a scam with you guys?

^^^ mapman and others ...

This thread was started by an enthusiast (me).

The intent was NEVER to "sell fuses." The intent was only to share a positive experience with other like-minded enthusiasts. Actually, it started with the SR Red fuse thread and then advanced to this thread.

Based upon the personal attacks and the negativism’s in the original Red fuse thread, I started this thread in an attempt to get away from the BS. In the opening post of this thread, I even asked for the Nellie Downers to either refrain from their negativism or to stay away ... to no avail.

The same thing happened in the Total Contact thread. The few bad actors migrated over there and things really became heated. Why? Because the VERY FEW disgusting individuals were not only pulling things out of their misinformed and uninformed posteriors, but they were being totally destructive to the extent of promoting the failure of the product.

• "It’s also hard for me to understand what kind of legitimate seller would even want this ugliness on display regarding their product but that is another story."
  

Mapman ... what makes you think any seller would want "this ugliness?" There’s nothing to wonder about ... they don’t.

• "Anything that does not support that goal, is a threat and must be discredited. Often viciously."

Not by me, pal. I’ve always been cordial to those expressing a legitimate, opposite viewpoint. Its when THOSE FEW, most of whom, have disappeared to crap all over other threads, made a personal vendetta out of it, and/or were making an attempt to burn a small business to the ground. They are totally disgusting individuals, who most likely lead narrow, darkened little lives, and in an attempt to bolster their "manhood,," revel in bullying others .

That’s about it ...

Frank

Prof
Obviously you have decided to take a leaf out of Georges book.
That is just quoting a small part of ones post to change the meaning entirely.
A pretty petty little parlour trick imho
Have fun.....

This thread IMHO was about one thing and one thing only.

Reporting ones experience with said SR Blue fuses, nothing more at all.

If you read the original post you’ll see that ’ naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s " were dissed from the start.

Hardly the way to start an unbiased discussion. 

Just saying....

Mapman
I am pretty sure that was included due to having had similar experience on the previous SR fuse threads.
Not saying I condone that verbage but I do see where Frank was coming from.
Still there was never any intent imho to try to persuade others to buy fuses, sure with positive accolades you can expect that some will rush out to do so but one should ALWAYS do their own research and due diligence before parting with their money!

Let me be clear here
I do not know Frank or any of the other posters here who have reported positive experiences.
I also do not know any of the posters who have had negative experiences either.
All I have ever tried to do on this thread and any "tweak" thread is report things as I hear them.
Thats it for me

Fair enough. Hey look Frank or anyone can create threads as they choose. It is what it is.

mapman ...

• "If you read the original post you’ll see that ’ naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s " were dissed from the start."
  

They deserved every bit of it ... and more. In fact, in a few instances, especially in the Total Contact thread, they deserved to have their asses handed to them in court.

By the way, mapman, this is from the original post:

• "Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers." 
  

Is THAT the viciousness you alluded to? LMAO ...

Frank

I'm neither defending nor dissing all supporters nor all detractors.   The only way to learn is to have open discussion.  Turned out that way here and in fact I learned a lot.

uberwaltz,

My reply to you was meant as a good-matured quip:  that I was happy to see someone use "I could not care less" (instead of the horrible "I could care less").

Are you seriously complaining about that now too? 

How did I change any "meaning?"

Otherwise I have no idea what post you are referring to.

And, btw, tommylion, I  have not been arguing for a "conspiracy" over fuses.

No Frank that is not vicious nor do I consider you to be.   However I do see it consistently tolerated in certain  others as long as it helps tow the line.   I won't mention names..... 

I’ve always been cordial to those expressing a legitimate, opposite viewpoint

Yup. I agree and hat tip to you! Your cordiality expressed to “disgusting individuals” is much appreciated.

 The totally legitimate, opposite view is that TC and special fuses are a bunch of hogwash. If some folks here like to take the time to warn others about parting with their money on a scam then where is the harm in that? In fact the warnings are intended to prevent the harm caused when folks get duped into mucking around with fuses and fuse boxes for no good reason. That anyone believes this nonsense to begin with is testamount to how easy it is to spread misinformation on the worldwide web.

Is THAT the viciousness you alluded to? LMAO ...

Not "viscous," but it was you who started off in the original post "poisoning the well" by name-calling skeptics.

And that type of attitude was adopted or continued by others here who fall back on name calling and negative characterizations of anyone voicing even reasonable skepticism.

And that type of attitude was adopted or continued by others here who fall back on name calling and negative characterizations of anyone voicing even reasonable skepticism.

Yup. But in all fairness, only a very few as I recall. One in particular but nothing new there. Just another day at the office.....  I feel bad I got sucked into it but sometimes the only way to check bad behavior when needed is more bad behavior.   Sad but true.    I'll be good again now.

• Not "viscous," but it was you who started off in the original post "poisoning the well" by name-calling skeptics.   
  

^^^ Bull. Read the entire opening thread. Nothing but positivism. Yes, I did dis-invite the worst of the lot.      

shadorn ...

Its when members use terminology like "hogwash," or "scam," that's the problem. What's wrong with that? Plenty. For starters, none of them tried the product for themselves, so they were pulling their comments out of their butts. Secondly, its not up to you, or anyone else to tell strangers how, when or why to spend their money. A bit presumptuous, don't you think? Third, Tim Mrock, with his TC, had a start-up company and his initial success depended upon positive input, not attacks on his product by a bunch of misinformed people using him as a whipping boy for their infantile egos.

Frank 

Those who argue against the SR fuses or who argue for more stringent proof of efficacy are, again, missing the OP’s intent:
He opened this thread upon first trying the SR Blue fuse.
He found remarkable improvements over the SR Blacks.
He invited those who are about to try the SR Blues to comment
on their impressions. 
His is a simple invitation to an audience who is trying or is about to try the new SR Blue fuse. He is also warning the usual trolls--those who ruined his prior thread on fuses--to stay away. Why? Because those who ridicule have degraded the discourse of his previous topics.
We have that same crew here again--the corporate-conspiracy crackpots, the phony-tweak prophets, the double-blind bloviators, the mid-fi malcontents. None of you will ever hear the higher fidelity of the SR Blue fuse---not one of you.

You guys still arguing about Fuses??!!! lol...seriously more important things in life. 

oregonpapa,

Nothing but positivism.

Oh, right, except for, you know, this part about skeptics:

Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.

So, yeah, your attitude is all positive for anyone who will share your view that fuses obviously make a sonic difference, but not so much it seems for a dissenting view.

Yes, I did dis-invite the worst of the lot.  

 

There was no way to know who YOU think to be the "worst of the lot" or any suggestion that one can reasonably be a skeptic about fuses. Given this, your "dis-invite" looked suggestive of a general swipe against people who would voice skepticism of your claims. As in "Stay out if you aren't going to agree with my view that fuses cause obvious sonic differences!"

Note that virtually EVERY skeptic here, no matter how careful or nuanced their position, has been castigated in the same vein as being "Negative Nellies" (and "psuedo skeptics" etc).  

So your name-calling of skeptics didn't offer any obvious reason to distinguish any individual vs just "those who will voice skepticism."

Sure, there are more important matters in life, but when I log on to the forums, Hi-Fi is important.  What I see here among the detractors are folks who dismiss fuses, even cables, as scam products out of long-held beliefs not grounded in experience but in having joined with some decidedly respected authority of the same opinion.  This well-entrenched camp protects them from going forth beyond a point of system development they are not willing to embark on, perhaps out of financial constraints or lack of priority on sound quality.  These are, perhaps, the mid-fi malcontents, or, just as likely, the happily ignorant defenders of their faith whose mission is to tell us we are deluded. Fine--keep holding forth--we aren't impressed. 

prof,

You have stated you are not arguing that fuses don't make any difference. You have also said you you don't have any intent to try the blue fuse. I accept both at face value, but I am confused about what you are “arguing”, or what position you are taking on this thread?

Prof, you are forgetting yourself. Pleas read my post above on the intent of the OP's thread--this isn't rocket surgery.  

prof ...

• "Note that virtually EVERY skeptic here, no matter how careful or nuanced their position, has been castigated in the same vein as being "Negative Nellies" (and "psuedo skeptics" etc)."
  

Again ... Bull. My attitude has always been that one has the right to express their feelings and thoughts ... as long as it doesn’t entail personal attacks, or demeans the product to the point of failure without trying it/them for themselves.

• "So your name-calling of skeptics didn’t offer any obvious reason to distinguish any individual vs just "those who will voice skepticism."
  

Refraining from calling THE FEW individuals out was done on purpose. Had I called them out, I would have just been opening the same can of worms again. And if you notice, one of the worst offenders posted again here and I said nothing. Why? Because there was no personal attack. I addressed his "concerns" and just moved on.

For you to read anything else into the final paragraph of the opening of this thread other than just asking for civility is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Again ... tens of thousands of Red, Black and Blue fuses sold to an appreciative customer base with very few returns says tons more than a few skeptics posting here. Same with Tim’s Total Contact ... an amazing product that, as good as the Blue fuses are, is even better ... by far.

Its good to remember The Golden Rule. Do not try to dissuade others from buying and enjoying products that you haven't experienced for yourself. Pretty simple, really.  

Frank

Prof
My sincere apologies!
What with the dark tone this thread has taken I assumed the worst and yes it made an ass out of me for sure!
I thought your meaning by truncating my quote was something different entirely.
Certain "other" members have a very bad habit of committing that offence repeatedly. 
Now I see you were merely being positive in the correct use of the phrase whereby not employing either a double negative or positive. and butchering it.
Reading too much into things can get one in deep doodoo!

They're wrong, They know they're wrong, and yet they still persist.
All of their protests are nothing more than an end around the original intent of the OP. They're dancing madly on the head of a pin, only meaning to distract, to get in some blows. Poor snowflakes.

All the best,
Nonoise

tommylion,

I'm simply adding my own view: that I'm unconvinced that fuses make the type of sonic differences ascribed to them in the OP.   I had been asked to elaborate on my stance early on, which is what I've been doing: explaining why I personally am skeptical.

We all have views on various aspects of high end audio. 

If seems that if one's opinion is "X tweak makes an obvious sonic difference" then that is essentially greeted with open arms. 

But if someone explains why he is skeptical, then that is taken as an affront to the experience of everyone who believes he hears a difference, and so all these emotional, castigating replies tend to follow.

But the cautions I've alluded to shouldn't be seen as an emotional affront by a reasonable person, no more than if you were to take part in a scientific study it would be a personal insult for there to be experimental controls for bias.  It's just acknowledging we can all be fallible. 

I remember back in the 90's on the audio discussion groups, I reported what I felt were obvious differences between some CD players.  When it was suggested that these differences could be due to bias effects, I didn't get all huffy, calling people "psuedo skeptics" and "negative nellies" and "I don't have to listen to anyone telling me I don't hear what I KNOW I hear!"

Instead I just said "Yeah, fair enough, could be."  And I sought advice on how to properly blind test them, did the tests and...came out positive for sonic differences.

And then I've done tests on other items that did not support there being a detectable sonic difference.  No biggie.  And it's saved me money along the way.

I haven't argued at all for anyone else that they have to do this. 

But I have to say I'm intrigued by the question of these tweaks not only on the level of the tweak itself, in this case fuses, but on the level of the type of critical thinking and reasoned discourse that does, and often does not, happen among the audiophile community.  

Maybe it's a hopeless effort trying to show why skepticism is reasonable, and why questioning our own subjective inferences is actually a good thing, not a personal insult.  But I think it's worth at least trying to get this point across sometimes.

uberwaltz & prof ...

We, as posters, have a huge disadvantage in the communication realm, in that, we cannot see facial expressions, hand gestures, voice inflections, etc.

I post to a Facebook page where a very predominate reviewer posts as well. I won't mention his name, but I can tell you with no uncertainty, he's one of the most vile individuals I've come across in my many years of posting on the Internet. I'm sure he wouldn't think of talking to me face to face the way he does on that site. Perhaps he doesn't even know how disgusting his diatribe truly is. It's a Facebook page started by an audiophile/manufacturer ... and from time to time politics is the point of conversation.  I like to discuss/debate politics in a rational, respectful manner. Not this guy. If he disagrees with your position, he just craps all over you and everyone else. Truly disgusting stuff.

I believe there are a FEW who post on A'gon with the same problem as the reviewer mentioned above. THEY were the ones I was addressing in the opening post of this thread.

Frank

jafreeman,

If you can ever step out of your need to caricature, please note:

I do indeed have experience with items like audiophile cables. I've had plenty over the years (and various other tweaks), and still have access to some of the most highly lauded cables available. 

I also have some experience attempting to be even more careful about my inferences, using blind testing to weed out my perceptual biases.  And those have been educational.