That Transformational piece of Gear We All Wish For

@kerrybh

Thank you for sharing. I am glad to hear someone is helping with room acoustics. I relied on GIK Acoustics expertise when I did my room few years back. I checked out Artnovion, looks pretty cool. Please post pictures of your room here once you’re done!

Purchasing an Esoteric Audio SACD player.  And recently taking off my Ekos SE Titanium tonearm and put back my mint Ittok Black arm.  After many recent updates to my LP12 I realized the Ittok is a better tonearm.       

@vthokie83  

I agree 100%-much bigger thrill in unboxing a shiny new gizmo and reading the congratulatory message from the manufacturer complimenting my intelligence for making such a profoundly wise choice. I love that.

@lalitk

I have a local vendor that did the measurements and is doing the installation. The plan and the panels are by Artnovion. So far, so good. Good level of consultation to create a plan that would improve the listening experience, that was within my budget, and that I could live with. Didn't expect as much improvement as I hear, and still more to go.

If I was handier, smarter, and had more time and patience, I'm sure I could have made this a DIY project with good results.  Since that's not the case, satisfied so far.

@kerrybh

Who did you hire to do room acoustics? I agree, room acoustics is first and foremost thing to do before we embark on gear swapping/tweaking.

Speaking of transformational gear…Shindo (tubes) and Accuphase (solid state). You can put together an end game system around them.

For me finally getting that combination that does everything right. When I paired my beloved Volti Razz with a Cary SLI80HS. 

I miss my old Plinius SA100mklll!

kerrybh

I certainly believe treatment and finishing my listening room will yield great improvements. My problem until now, has been: my current system is in a our living space which is not at all optimal; and buying new gear is sexy and fun.

I can't imaging buying GIK panels will give me the same "giddy as a school girl" excitement. I am however committed to that direction.

I finally got a plan to treat my room done by people who know what they are doing- I don’t- and about 25% of the installation is done. Significant improvement- more than I expected. Better everything. I’ve tested several tweaks- high end switches, filters, etc.,  and honestly couldn’t hear a difference, certainly not enough to justify the cost.   The room treatment, however, made a clearly noticeable improvement even to my old ears. Looking forward to getting the project finished 

A properly dimensioned and treated room. Preferably that could accommodate properly placed Magneplanars. Everything else is pretty small potatoes by comparison.

Typically having no big objects between the speakers and having the rear wall dampened (not reflective… so just paint or a tv) is a bad thing. But like about all things in this pursuit, it depends. I had my audio racks in between my speakers and a reflective wall above that when I had planar speakers… it did not cause a problem. Although I had to treat (dampen) a one foot high three foot wide section at about five feet up behind the speakers. I switched to dynampic speakers and the audio rack destroyed the sound stage where it was and the reflections above interfered with the imaging. So, for my current system, only my amp in between the speakers and the whole wall heavily dampened does the job.. so, it depends. 

I like your thoughts. I’ll tell her that since we live on a dirt road with horses up and down our streets that I’m just keeping the tv clean. And dust free.

@wjcasey, I’ve never done that myself, as I didn’t think I needed to, as when my rig was in the living room the large TV was flush with a large cabinet and at the time I felt that made a wall in front of the real wall. I may have been wrong about that, but my standards were lower at the time.

But the beauty of the blanket over the TV trick, it seems to me, is how easy it should be to do and undo.

And since you cannot edit typos here for very long after you make them, I note that I typed anything bigger than a bread box between speakers is a "cardinal thread": I meant to type cardinal sin. (I am not a very good typist.)

Thanks all. Don’t mean to disrupt the intent of this thread. But I like your thoughts. I’ll tell her that since we live on a dirt road with horses up and down our streets that I’m just keeping the tv clean. And dust free. Cheers

I started out with a BAT VK-3i preamp and then went to a BAT VK-33 a couple of years ago. I pair the VK-33 with a BAT VK-225se power amp, and the sound is simply astonishing. Great air and detail to the music, and built like a tank as well.

Whenever i listen to music, i always throw a blanket over the TV set.  

Big open space, with a tv in between. I wish I could figure out the best way to treat that space without my wife telling me it’s ugly, or worse yet, no :). My preamp made the biggest difference.

@wjcasey3rd , I had always read that anything larger than a bread basket between speakers was a cardinal thread.  Actually, I had read that before I started reading here on A'gon, and like every other thing, that is disputed here as well.  However, as far as the TV between speakers, here I I have read (and I think on this thread as well) that covering the TV with a large blanket makes a huge sonic improvement.

HAPPY FOURTH TO ALL AND HAPPY LISTENING

PS: i neglected to list my two REL 812 subs in my list of gear at the top of the page.

bgross Yep, tubes can be transformative. Similar experience here with my tube DAC and some NOS Mullards. I was on the fence between your PS and GoldNote - ended up with GoldNote. The LM isn't pretty but it sure does sound great even with the stock tubes.

My ah ha moment was finally finding the right amp for my Harbeth's; T+A PA 3100 HV which replaced a BAT VK3500 which was good, but not great.

(I have no doubt BAT separates are great)  

Happy 4th!

1st 'wow' - upgrading from a mid-fi integrated (B&K) to Class A separates (Ayer).  

2nd, but smaller 'wow' - upgrading the caps in the Ayre amp (to higher end Ayre caps)

3rd 'wow' - upgraded my Ayre preamp to a tube-based Audio Research Ref 6SE preamp.

Now, if only my wife would let me add a dedicated listening-room onto the house ;:0

Love this. I am an amateur at best trying to muddle my way through this to find what I love. Room treatments always fascinate me. I have a ton of great gear (I’m from Cave Creek so have a D’Agostino Momentum HD preamp, phono, and Momentum M400 mono locks running a lot of Nordost to Aurender W20 and Chord DAVE to older B&W 802Ds, my next upgrade). But because I want to stay married most is in a closet with ventilation and in a big room (combined family room, living room, and kitchen. Big open space, with a tv in between. I wish I could figure out the best way to treat that space without my wife telling me it’s ugly, or worse yet, no :). My preamp made the biggest difference. But I’m certain treating my room would make a huge improvement. 

#2 It has always been clean, distortion free, solid, low impedance power right at my wall outlet.

#1 I consider Myself, gear.  I wish I could not be sooo damn critical and just enjoy the music.  But I'm learning to turn it off and on.

After a variety of sub-$1K dacs that all sounded pretty much the same, for me the Ayre QB-9 dac sounded so close to vinyl that I promptly sold my SOTA Sapphire TT with vacuum platter.  I have never looked back. 

1st it was having a dedicated toom.

2nd is eliminating noise. Lower noise floor.

Ericba

I think my friend Bob M. would agree with you on the Cardas Clear.  I have the clear reflection but my understanding is that the Clear really is the one have.

vthokie63

The BAT preamp is so marvelous.   you sound like you have a great system.  i have a Coda 16 amp and while i have no complaints at all with it,  someday i will try a BAT SS amp in my system.

FWIIW i find the PS Audio P20 power plant to be an indispensable piece of gear.   a properly treated room  is also very important   and that is not all that hard to do

I can’t see any piece of equipment changing things more than speakers. And I swear, if someone says cables, bang-ZOOM! 🌕 

Silly Tweaky me:  they are a bunch of old brass Mapleshade footers that i just use as extra weight to maybe damp any vibrations.   do they work?  i have no idea as i just stuck them there knowing they cannot hurt at least

OP, what are the 7 silver things on top of what looks like the BAT Pre on the left of the main rack? 

ronkent

I can whole heartedly agree, that adding an end game preamp was a game changing experience for my system; and I tested your BAT VK-80 preamp....and it truly is world class IMO. I chose another preamp, because the BAT's $10k was a few thousand dollars over my max budget.

I had recently added a couple of great amps (Aric Audio Transcend EL34 "push pull" and a CODA S5.5), and a new set of Clayton Shaw Caladan speakers.....and those were HUGE leaps in SQ; I would say my first "hi fi" and not "mid fi" components

However adding a an Aric Audio Motherlode XL preamp, just made everything nearly perfect. I'm not sure I would have thought that prior to owning the Motherlode, but that is because I had never owned a high end preamp. I am now a believer, for me the preamp was a great addition to any high end system.

I also believe that room acoustics is critical, and will have a dedicated and properly treated room finished by the end of the year.....with dedicated power of course.

These blogs always cost me money coz then I have to try it.or do they save me coz I don't have to roll  pre amps to find a good one

Interestingly, each move I've made was worthwhile. The PassLab XA25 class A amp is at the top of the list. But strangely enough it is the Cardas Clear interconnect that I got from a closing audio store with it that blew me away. It made everything come alive at once. The missing link, if I may say. 

" I upgraded to a BAT VK-90 last year and was amazed at the improvement of space between instruments and the air around vocals.  BAT is an outstanding brand of product, as is the company and people there.  I really don't think I will change to another brand, but I am likely to continue to upgrade within the BAT line of products."   MAMMOTHGUY YOU NAILED IT.   that is exactly what i have found regarding the sonic attributes,  and Steve B is fantastic to work with.   i think i will not be looking at any other brand either.  right now i use a really fine Coda 16 amplifier,  but my next move will be a BAT amp.. 

A dedicated sound room sounds wonderful and i hope you get it.   i have a pretty decent room but it is not a dedicated room.   check out my virtual system.  

And next up is building a dedicated sound room, shortly into the new year.  Literally, adding on to the house and making a room addition that is dedicated to 2-channel high fidelity.  I think that, along with a properly designed set of room treatments, will be the highlight of my audio journey.

I've been a BAT man for about 5 years now.  I upgraded to a BAT VK-90 last year and was amazed at the improvement of space between instruments and the air around vocals.  BAT is an outstanding brand of product, as is the company and people there.  I really don't think I will change to another brand, but I am likely to continue to upgrade within the BAT line of products. 

To the question of the OP, transformational products for my systems, over the years, have been phono cartridges and phono stages, speakers, and most recently the BAT VK-90 preamp.  What a fun and pleasurable journey it has been.

Tubes are definite "transformational."  Enjoy.

dCS network bridge. Relaxed the sound, opened it up and all the harshness and sibilance disappeared 

Upgraded the 12au7 tubes on my Line Magnetic DAC. It was an excellent performer with the self branded LM Chinese tubes but when I swapped in a pair of La Radiotechnique 12au7wa it went next level. Still amazed by how rolling in a couple of exceptional tubes can raise the bar in 9 of 10 components. I plan on doing the same with some high quality 6922s in my Canor 2.10.
Just my experience...

+1 on the room treatments. Especially the first reflections and the middle front. Especially if you have a tv/ projector screen of some sort. Just covering your tv/ screen with a simple blanket will make you think you bought a whole new system. 
That being said, It was the ARC Ref 5SE preamp. Next would be upgrading to the NOS Winged “C” or Tungsol Black Plate 6550 tube in said preamp. I know some people feel they do not need or want a preamp. I am definitely not one of them. 

+1 for room treatment. But if I go back many decades, junking a Linn LP12 in favour of a Roksan Xerxes was pretty transformational.

Funny - I thought this was an amp thread til the last post or two.

And I thought it was a transformational piece of gear thread.

Funny - I thought this was an amp thread til the last post or two.

Moving to a semi-omni-psuedo-line array approach is what did it for me.

Many components have come through upstream of my speakers, some of those being devices of absurd price points (which were not mine). No upstream component altered the sound in a way that compared to the difference in speakers that interact with the room in a fairly “massive” way.

For anyone who wants to sit down and listen to quiet piano solos, or who dislikes a very large sonic image, however, there are certainly more practical ways to go. 

MBL Loudspeakers ,every model I have heard is excellent on or off axis being 

a omni directional Loudspeaker.

I’d say the only piece I bought that I did not consider transformational was the Cary V12 I bought in the eraly summer of ’01. And the reason I say it was probably not transformational is because I was listening to, at the time, a pair of ARC VTM120s, and those amps were kickass! But they were not very reliable, so the Cary was transformational in those regards, because I am no longer gritting my teeth and crossing my fingers when I flip the switches and I no longer keep my soldering iron with a supply of grid resistors next to the amp. Other than that I’d call the V12 a lateral move. Maybe even a hair down, but I wasn’t admitting to that at the time.

When I bought the ARCs they were an upgrade from a Cary SLA70, and that upgrade was transformational. The Cary SLA70 was an upgrade from JVC multichannel integrated, and that was certainly a transformational upgrade.

I went from a B&K digital pre to a second hand modded Cary SLP90, and I found that to be mind blowingly transformational. A couple or so years ago (the years all run together for me post ’17 or ’18) I bought a preowned (from Cary) SLP05, and that was nearly as mindblowingly transformational as the SLP90 was. That SLP05 is good.

I upgraded my 3 piece digital throughout the ’90s and thought it was good but I also thought that it probably wasn’t getting something right. I bought a SACDp (SA10) over three years ago (’20 I think) and I have found SACDs to be transformational as I do not do vinyl.

. . . and on edit:  I am currently auditioning/breaking in a speaker upgrade (Revel m126be) from  my nearly 30 year old B&W 805s (matrix series).  The B&Ws were transformational at the time seeing as how I had been listening to an affordable pair of NHT 2 ways.  Some nights I think the Revels are transformational and on other nights I would not go that fra.  But they are good.

We are blessed that we were able to find these pieces of gear.   i bet that VK 255SE is fantastic.   For 2025,  i am contemplating their new REX 300 SS amp but i have to start saving for sure.

I just purchased a used First Sound Deluxe Presence Mk III, and it's truly transformational in my system to my ears. I have had 5 other preamps before this, but this is the first that is far above the others in performance, and it is better than I was expecting. 

Started using a BAT VK-33SE a few years ago. Paired with the BAT VK-255SE, the resolution is just staggering,

i am so amazed by the improvement the BAT VK80 wrought,  that i am now considering one of their SS amps for 2025.  I do not mind tubes in a pre-amp,  but do not want to go tubes in an amp.  i do agree with immathewj that a new piece can be a bit of a drug high,  but i have waited to make sure i was not deluding myself.before writing my review

Yes going from a truly mid-fi pre-amp (1990’s nicely featured Carver) to a good one (newer Audio Research) about 12 or so years ago (as a trusted A’goner recommended to me at the time) was my big mid-fi to hifi transformation at the time. Been in hifi territory ever since. You live and learn.

I was wondering if anyone shared a similar experience as I also recently introduced a BAT preamp, having located a used Rex 2 and going balanced throughout with all cabling. Really can't get over the immersive and nuanced musical experience. So much more emotion inducing playback. Congrats. For the first time in this hobby I'm completely satisfied and my wife is very happy about that. 

I've done that a few times (amps, preamps, CDPs, DACs, most recently speakers) and I have experienced transformation, but sonic transformation can be ("can" being the operative word) like a good drug high . . . it's only good enough for a while.

they sure do make a difference.