hi Mark, Thanks for your response. i am so impressed by the VK-80. Now i am thinking about getting a REX 300 amp next year. have not heard one, or even read about it, but i bet it is a killer. my current amp, a Coda 16, is a terrific unit and it may be that the Bat does not really improve on it but i have such confidence in the BAT gear.
So you got a pair of FR20's? they too are on my list of things to consider. I am using Thiel 3.7 speakers, and so far i have really not heard anything (that i can afford) that really improves on them. They are amazing speakers. and yes the DSD DAC II is a fantastic unit.
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I also use the PS Audio DSD DAC MK II. Great DAC.
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I just installed a BAT VK 80 preamp. I agree: it was transformational. Best money I have spent.
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The introduction of the Gryphon Diablo 120 to the rotation of components has probably been the single biggest transformational moment. Paired with the right speakers, it’s end game for me…
For my tube-based system, the introduction of the Linear Tube Audio Microzotl preamp was also up there. That preamp is just killer.
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you are so right about acoustics. have used a combination for years and the most important spot, is as you say, the first reflection point. i use mostly diffusive devices and avoid treatment that only absorb
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Q:That Transformational piece of Gear We All Wish For.
A:Room treatment and it cost less than most other major bits and produces the greatest improvement.
I used Music City Acoustics. The first reflection point is the most important.
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wow now that is a serious upgrade. my neighbor who had the MK II's, did end up selling them and got a set of the MK III. i heard them but not being that familiar with his room and setup, I could not comment on the improvement. i know both iterations sounded great to me but he really thinks it was a big improvement.
wish you lived in the hood; would really enjoy hearing your setup. i am in Greensboro NC.
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I understand Ron, many prefer the combination of tubes in Pre and SS for Amp, bringing the best of both worlds to the party. I also was debating whether to get the BAT VK-655 MkIII SS Amp or the Rex II Monoblocks. At the end, I decided to give Victor the vote of confidence and trust that if he opted to pair the Rex II Preamp with Tube Amplifier Monoblocks too, it may be worth it to give it a good listen.
Very happy now with the Magico S3 MkII, but at some point I may upgrade them to the Magico M3
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thanks Antonio. i hope someday to audition and perhaps purchase the new REX 300 amp. i do not mind tubes in a preamp but going to take the easy road and go SS for the amp. Funny you replaced your Pass preamp with a BAT, as i did the same thing sort of. I replaced my Pass XP22 with a Coda 07x which i liked better, but the sound seemed a tad lifeless or anemic. Then i got The BAT and it improved on every parameter of sound. They make some really killer stuff and it is made in this country.
I heard a pair of those speakers at a neighbor's home of mine. really impressive for sure
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Once you think you've got your system dialed in to where there is not much left to improve, you'll be amazed if you replace your preamp with great a Transformer Volume Control. but expect to pay 20K or more.
jerry
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Congratulations ronkent !!
I also got converted to BAT a few years ago after I auditioned a VK-51SE preamplifier (at that time I was using a PASS XP-20 Pre with a PASS X350.5 Amp and Avalon Ascendant Ceramic Speakers). I was amazed at what I heard.
Then I bought a VK-52SE Preamp and paired with a VK-255SE Solid State Amplifier and now I had the opportunity to upgrade my BAT Setup to BAT Rex II Preamp and BAT Rex II Monoblocks and Magico S3 MkII Speakers: Just beyond impressive performance!
Enjoy in good health!
Antonio.
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I agree. After rolling through a number of OK pres. I find the First Sound to make a very big improvement. Preamplifiers are very important. The First Sound made me realize that the others were various types of "pleasant", but they weren't revealing anything new in the music.
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After many years of playing with different components, i am convinced that it is not that hard to find a good amplifier, but a really good preamp is another story. Like the ACE you got, my new BAT did the same for me.
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I had felt that my system sounded very good, However, upgrading my preamp from my beloved Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 (2 chassis unit) to a truly reference level Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse preamp really allowed all of my other components to reach what they are capable of..
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I did it this year with the purchase of my Von Schweikert VR9 SE Mk2 upgraded sub-amps, etc., my Westminster Lab REI amps, my Jay's Audio CDt3 Mk3 and Lampizator Poseidon DAC/Pre-amp.
In 2006, I upgraded to a VPI TNT VI+ with a Townshend Seismic Sink.,
In 1989 , I upgraded to a tricked out superior performing SME IV (Brooks Berdan multi-molded),
I'm 68. It is possible I may upgrade the analog components.
I'm using GroverHuffman power cables and speaker cables which I do not intend to ever change.
Switched to Belden (Blue Jeans) interconnects last year.
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It would be nice if the Wizards at BAT would make it easier to strap their amps for mono operation. Having to send them to the factory is a real pain.
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thanks and true. but the way things are set up i have to live with the configuration. truthfully just the thought of lifting those beasts gives me pause. i had shoulder surgery recently and am not a big guy anyway. i am thinking long term about the REX 300 amp because its size is manageable
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@ronkent An amp stand between the speakers, with a run of XLR cables, and you can put any amp there that you want, regardless of size. Just sayin'....
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wow that should be some interesting comparisons. please let me know what you find out.
i almost bought one of those amps but was intimidated by the size and the weight. had shoulder surgery recently and the thought of moving my 100 LB. Coda out of the system, and the 120 lb. 655se into the rack was a bit more than i could handle. plus my rack is 18" deep and the 655 is 23" deep
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@ronkent: its the original REX (circa 2008, I think), with all new tubes specified by BAT. Amp is the BAT VK-655se, which is a fabulous beast, best amp I have owned. Upgrading to the REX 2 is a possibility for us in future, or REX 3, but for now the REX was a wow improvement. Am sticking with the 655se.
BTW, in a different system we are going to try out the VK-80 (still on hand) with Luxman M900U (monobloc pair). Will A/B vs Luxman C-900U.
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@mammothguy54
"Ultimately, my end-game system, in total. Life is too short, enjoy it while we are able". boy ain't that the truth. you must be in your late 60's or early 70's to be saying that? I am 71 and figure it is (to misquote the Thing) music time. The 500 is out of my price range and weight and size range (as it is too deep for my audio rack). The Coda 16 is fantastic (I am selling the Coda 07X preamp because the VK 80 was so much better), so someday i will take the 60 day trial from MD and try the REX 300. If it does not kick the Coda butt then i will know what comes next.
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@ronkent If you really want to beat your Coda 16 then settle only for the best solid state amp from BAT, the REX-500. I am not so sure that the REX-300 will do you any better than what you already have (the CODA 16 is fabulous). I am considering selling my fairly efficient speakers (next year) and opting for a speaker that is more power demanding. At the top my short list is the Sonus Faber, Amati G5. At that time, I would sell my BAT VK-90T power amp and get the REX-500 power amp. Time will tell, but first up is completing the new sound room addition. I just received the construction quote yesterday and it is within my financial plan. Ultimately, my end-game system, in total. Life is too short, enjoy it while we are able.
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hi WhiteCap, what REX did you get as there are a few. i really am contemplating a REX 300 amp in 2025 but it has to be mighty good to beat my Coda 16 amp.
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Nice to see all the well deserved praise for BAT. I was hesitant to add my 2cents here, but it is on point. The VK80 is terrific for sure, we had one for about a year. But the REX was one of those transformational changes that we all hope for.
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I am on day 6 of my rigs transformation, I added the First Watt SIT-4 to power my Volti Razz speakers…it’s unbelievable….
Pass Labs XP-12 preamp, First Watt SIT-4 amp, Magna Mano ultra mkIII farad streamer from the Netherlands, New Ontech Dac07 from Denmark…
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you would be surprised at the improvement it can make. it is not a power conditioner, it is a power re-conditioner. I would try one as they have a totally easy return policy if you do not like it. i have owned probably five of their power plants since the premier power plant came out way back. i consider the P20 to be a core part of my system.
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Seriously considered a balanced audio pre amplifier but it does come with a lot of tubes may not be the greatest thing for a home theater system to be used with bypass. However it is an impressive amplifier. I went with a Conrad Johnson gat2
The power plant you have is something I considered too but my electric supply is not a problem and would wonder how much of an improvement something like that would make if you really don’t have a lot of problems with noisy electricity source, but I do have a power conditioner from transparent that I use.
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If it were possible, which it isn’t, the biggest improvement for me would be to build a perfect listening room. That’s by far my biggest challenge. My equipment is great. The room is not. It’s not horrible but it could be so much better. I know it’s limiting my system a lot.
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@desktopguy
Discovering NOS DACS years ago was a big moment for me as well, and I can't imagine going back.
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Mammothguy: what do you use for amplification\? i currently use a Coda 16 which i really like, but in 2025 i really hope to try out a BAT REX 300.
I am now a true BAT MAN
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By the way, I initially had a VK-33 and found it to be very good. I then had it upgraded to the VK-33SE and there was a marked improvement in all the areas we have mentioned already. The VK-80 is a direct replacement for the VK-33SE and by utilizing the new capacitors I would imagine that it outperforms the VK-33SE. When I upgraded from the VK-33SE to the VK-90 I was rather astonished by how much more space between instruments and depth of soundstage was rendered. Bass is more visceral, but certainly not overdone or bloated. Just more realistic.
I would have to say, over the past few years I have found that a top-flight preamp is definitely a transformational component to a great high-fidelity music system.
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@agbrace Right on! Enjoy to its fullest, and in good health.
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This may be a sideways answer, but here it is: the biggest transformation I've had in audio came not from a single device, but from changing to a new class of devices. Specifically, when I stopped using various delta-sigma DACs and started using multibit or NOS DACs, everything changed.
Admittedly I never had the funds or the space to ride the delta-sigma elevator to penthouse level; allegedly some of the large, expensive d-s implementations rock one's world. But when I ditched midrange d-s for midrange mutibit or NOS DACs, my entire relationship with digital changed. I simply stopped wincing when I turned up the volume; stopped dreading that moments when the massed violins get their loudest; stopped accepting that dry, unreal tonality and timbre.
I now own 3 NOS DACs and have a 4th in house for review (a loaner). They don't sound identical; some of the differences are meaningful to me. But as a class, these four are far better than any delta-sigma DAC I ever heard, and far easier to live with.
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Hello,
For me it was ditching my PS Audio 300 watt monoblocks. They couldn't control my MARTIN LOGAN ESL woofers. I thought the muddy bass was a room problem, them I switched to a D-Sonic amp and Voila! Clean right bass.
Transformational.
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it is a beautiful insanity for sure
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OK, the Ref6 came out and the VK-80 went in tonight all other components left unchanged. The soundstage and overall feel of the 80 is still “smaller” but it comes across more tonally accurate and micro details are more present. The imaging is more precise in that the images are more laid back and smaller but better defined in space with sharper edges. In comparison, the Ref6 may be a bit extra in its presentation, sometimes too much bass in my setup, it is more forward and sounds big but the 80 is more refined and engaging depending on the track. In summary, I like both and can’t sell them, Such is the insanity of this hobby. Thanks all for a good conversation.
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hey Mammouth, ever think about going to a Dragon cord? there is no end to this wonderful madness.
but you are so right about there being nothing weak about this preamp. there is not one sonic attribute that it seems lacking in.
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agbrace, thank you for the reply. Yes, the trade-in program. It is handled by retailers and BAT fulfills the order. And you are correct, the owner of Music Direct is also the owner of Mobile Fidelity, Mo-Fi Distribution, and BAT. Best to you on your quest of audio nirvana.
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I did the trade in program through music direct, which I believe owns BAT, and it was built to order and shipped direct. I can’t imagine there are large QC differences unit by unit. Maybe my expectations are off, I’ve compared it to the Ref 6, Benchmark LA-4 and Denafrips Athena. As far as power cables, I’m using Cullen Cable, well built, reasonably priced, I’ve owned a handful of different brands and I’m not sure I can tell a difference with power cables. The next preamp on my list is an Atma-Sphere MP-3, very interested to try one of those.
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Power cord does make a difference. I am using the same Audioquest on my VK-90 preamp as ronkent. Like ronkent, my BAT preamp provides a very wide soundstage, incredible separation of instruments, incredible air surrounding vocals, depth of stage, etc. Dynamics are strong and most definitely "exciting" and there is absolutely nothing weak about this preamp.
Curiously, @agbrace how did you buy your VK-80 direct? I had no idea that BAT sells direct to the end user. Please advise. Thank you.
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hi AGBRACE, i am just fishing here but maybe it needs a different power cord. I am using the AQ hurricane source
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The two pieces of gear have surprised me were the Computer Audio Design (CAD) GC-1 and Sonore Signature Rendu SE w/Optical Module.
I bought a used GC-1, it was so amazing I immediately also bought the used GC-3 that was for sale.
I bought a used Sonore UltraRendu several months ago to play with the Ethernet output of an Innuos Statement, liked it enough to try the Signature Rendu SE.
Well, the Signature Rendu SE had that I never knew it could sound like that feeling.
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wow, not sure what to say. 500 hours should be more than enough. Mine has improved in the month since i got it but still not at 500 hours. the sound stage is very large and immersive (depending of course on the recording). and the jump factor is amazing. i use a Coda 16 amp and it is a killer for sure, but someday i hope to try a REX 300. i do use two REL subs and they are very important in getting the kind of sound i like
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Yeah, bought it brand new direct, I even talked to Steve and he said let it break in more, has about 500 hours. I am a believer in system synergy and I do go through a lot of gear but haven’t found the right combination where it fits in well. It certainly doesn’t sound bad but isn’t exciting, soundstage is smaller than Ref 6, bass and dynamics are lighter weight. I even tried it with a 255SE power amp and the amp had a similar sonic profile. Maybe I need a Rex 500!
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hi agbrace, that is wild. that is the exact opposite of what i am experiencing. this beast has great dynamics and slam, and is anything but polite. i wonder if the tubes are getting old as your description is so far from what i am experiencing.
are you the original owner?
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Glad to hear about the VK-80, I agree, I love the company, customer support, build quality and aesthetics, it’s a beautiful component. I hate to say this but the sound quality just doesn’t do it for me, in my setup it sounds too polite, errors of omission rather than commission. I can’t sell it because I want to love it, everything else is A+. I also have an Audio Research Reference 6 that I compare it to, possibly not a fair comparison due to price differences but when that gets swapped in, it wows me, big soundstage, dynamics, bass. A friend has the VK-80i integrated and that has to be one of the coolest looking integrateds on the market. He loves it and I’m tempted to sell the preamp to try the intergated. Associated components are KEF Reference 1 Meta, KEF Reference 3 non-meta, Benchmark AHB-2, Benchmark LA-4, Luxman 595, Aurender N200, Bricasti M3, Eversolo A8, HoloAudio Cyan2, Parasound JC-5.
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Old Proverb: The Road To Hell is paved with transformational pieces of gear.
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@vthokie83
I had a great experience with GIK. From consultation to buying, the whole process was pretty painless. I never felt rushed and completed my installation in 3 phases. Be patient and open to experimenting with acoustic panel placement. First order is critical, which should address 1st reflections and some diffusion in your room. It’s a balancing act as you could easily go overboard :-)
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laltik
laltik
I'm probably going to lean on GIK Acoustics as well, at least to start. I spent quite a bit of time with John Dykstra (from GIK) at Axpona last year and again this year. He was suggesting to start with a their software (maybe it's open source?), and working with their no cost advisors to get a baseline. That should get me in the right ballpark for absorption and diffusion, and of course knowing my room, speakers, and placement.
Their solutions seem to be sufficient, and cost effective. I'd be curious what your experience has been
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Esoteric does make great gear and it looks great as well. My neighbor has Esoteric preamp and SACD player. nice stuff
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