I think he means that a great crossover is the one that does the least damage and causes the fewest problems. Each type has its pros and cons with first order often considered the best, but limiting in terms of driver flexibility.
Stereophile review of the $30,000 tekton speakers
We have had many discussions/arguments over tekton speakers in the past, mainly involving a couple posters who thought their $4000 tektons sounded better than the highest price Wilson’s and other high budget speakers.
In the latest Stereophile magazine, they did a review of the $30,000 tekton’s. In this Steteophile issue, they rate these $30,000 tekton’s as class B. When you look at the other speakers that are in the class B section, you will notice most of these speakers range in price from $5000-$8000. So it looks like you have to spend $30,000 on a pair of tekton’s to equal a pair of $5000 Klipsch Forte IV’s sound quality.
If I compare these $30,000 class B tekton’s, to some of the class A speakers, there are some class A speakers for 1/2 the price (Dutch & Dutch 8C, Goldenear triton reference), or other class A speakers that are cheaper (Magico A5, Kef blade 2).
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@audioman58 - are you referring to parts quality, xover design weakness, or both? |
@crustycoot , I agree with your comments on DALI EPIKORE-11. I get that no everyone can afford $60K -or 80K up here in Canada-, on a pair of speakers, and that there are eventually diminishing returns. But the EPIKORE-11 blew me away and actually made me feel that they're worth it. |
No, I can’t say I’ve had that experience on the website before and use it extensively. Nor would that be consistent with how the typical software works. It’s possible, if the website is set up such that text is intentionally not searchable by the crawlers for the search engines, but as far as I can tell it does not have that issue. you have made an assertion that the stereophile website has a defective search engine. That is possible, but the only evidence is your assertion. |
This is an unnecessary discussion, because you could have easily tested the matter for yourself...and in less time than it just took you to expand further on your misapprehensions. Throw 10 or 20 varied search terms at the Stereophile website's query box and a good number of them will fail where plain old googling doesn't. Stereophile's search function is badly broken. It's been like that for years. |
A defective search is unlikely, as it is simply a widget of Google search you put into the website. It can happen, though. So you could be correct. What is more common is someone tells the webmaster to have the search to disregard certain search results for whatever reason. Amazon does this all the time with products or (more often) books it doesn’t want to promote or desires you to go to a preferred product). As someone who runs a company with a legal department, I don’t see a conspiracy. I see a legal department or manager saying “this is trouble we don’t need and telling the webmaster to suppress the search results. |
No, it isn't. Anyone will have the same experience with many, many search terms plugged into the Stereophile search bar. The search function on the site is profoundly broken. I know that's not as exciting as suggesting that there's some kind of conspiracy afoot, so...I'm sorry to disappoint.
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Has anyone parsed the Stereophile review of the Tekton Be Moabs? It's interestingly hard to find on the Stereophile website. If you search for it, the review doesn't come up. If you look on the "B" listing of equipment -- aside from noticing that they are the $30K outlier among speakers generally costing 10% or so of the Moabs, there is no summary of the review. Anyway, because of this thread, I finally found in on page 12 and read it critically: 1. It starts with the odd phrase " VERY BAD WOULD NOT RECOMMEND" that the author said in the comments had nothing to do with the speakers. I take him at his word, especially since he is a fan of the original Moabs. 2. The first observation of the speakers was that it smelled so bad he had to put it in a closet with an air purifier. This resolved after a couple of weeks. 3. He didn't care for the Cardas binding posts because they were hard to read. 4. He sometimes plugged the ports with a pool noodle because the speakers were boomy. Tekton seemed to be offended by this and said the two Stereophile guys are unique in their complaints. (But see measurements below.) 5. They are really good at certain percussion notes (e.g., snares and bells). 6. "Whether the Moabs' bass performance is as authoritative and ultimately satisfying as those far more expensive speakers is debatable." 7. He ends with "The Moab OGs [the old model, not under review] were and remain one of high-end audio's superior value propositions. Their beryllium-studded counterparts [the model being reviewed] can't lay the same claim [but they are the best Tekton has to offer and great for people who like Tektons]. Whatever that means. When you get to the testing: 8. "The Moab has one of the most demanding impedances I have encountered, though this will be somewhat ameliorated by the high voltage sensitivity." 9. "The Moab Be's enclosure seemed lively when I rapped it with my knuckles." And goes on to discuss various modes, which may or may not matter. 10. There is woofer interference, but it's probably OK since the ports fire away from the listener. 11. "Moab Be's low-frequency alignment does appear somewhat under-damped. The peak in the ports' output at 248Hz results in a small discontinuity at the same frequency in the woofers' response." 12. "he Moab Be's measured performance suggests that with care in setup it will offer a neutral sonic balance" In short, it's not a great review. Now whether the reviewer and tester know their stuff, I have no idea. I don't know either and am no expert in a position to critique their work. But it's super interesting that when you search "Tekton Moab" in the search bar of Stereophile, the review doesn't come up. |
+1 @facten . And he spelled paid incorrectly. |
I don’t know bud, I’ve laughed my head off at the sound/squawk fest that came out of million dollar rigs at times. If a million dollar rig is getting plopped down in a goofy living room, something is wrong with the guy that’s doing it. Spend the money on construction and get a purpose designed/built acoustic space and drop the money on treatments first..... would be my suggestion. No matter what you spent on gear, the other 50% or more is the acoustic space/room. The human ear likes certain types of spaces, if you don't have that, it is largely a waste of time. |
I think audioaudition needs to read more carefully before he speaks. I said value is relative i.e, it’s different for EVERYBODY. I have no problem with people who value 250K speakers. Please forgive my post. I know I am not worthy of members like you. I will try to remain silent Mr. Putin, as you request. |
You didn’t provide facts to back up your statements specific to Tekton. Stating that you are in an audio club and worked in the business are not facts to substantiate your below contentions. "Payed for reviews." "Now average sales at best" I’ll hazzard a guess that neither you nor anyone in these clubs have any access to Tekton business records to then make these specific claims.
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audioman58, I heard those giant ESP speakers back around 2000-01, and I liked them a lot. But, I knew it would be hard for them to succeed. The sound was beautifully balanced and natural, but it lacked the kind of WOW factor that is often needed to grab some listeners attention. It is very unfortunate that really good products cannot thrive just by being really good products--one has to please important reviewers, it has to have the right look, it has to be cleverly marketed, etc. Crossovers, because they are hidden and utilize very old technology, don't have the appeal of fancy drivers where one can tout beryllium or other exotic materials, and all kinds of technological improvement. Capacitors, inductors and resistors, very boring stuff. |
I am in a multi state audioclub, if you look at reviews going back 2-3 years ago with all the farfair. Being in audio for decades and owning a Audio store. I went through the politics of reviews and spoke with Companies that had excellent products ,were the magazine reviewers stated clearly put $$ x amount of $$ on 1/2 or full page ads $30k+ and we will see too you get very good reviews , one company ESP won speaker of the year late 90s , and several years later out of business because he was small he got average reviews there after plenty of politics in Audio, and myself having help upgrade many Loudspeaker Xovers have over 20+ years in Xover parts quality which greatly influence the sound, I just speak about what is possible to improve the sound quality and the Xover is a weakness on most loudspeakers even over $20k ,.most mfg have no formal experience with that many parts .where I have well over 10,000 actual hours on capacitors Sonic signature and runin time on the majority of capacitors out there . check this out As a good reference , Humble Home made hifi capacitor test. also Jantzen make the best quality inductors for quality,value imo. Also the Excellent Path Audio resistors. |
@audioman58 I have no skin in this game, I don't own and will never own Tekton speakers but I am curious as to what your factual basis of these 2 statements are: "Payed for reviews." "Now average sales at best" Thanks in advance for providing the detailed factual specifics |
Once again a member makes a universal judgement about value based on his perspective. Doesnt help your case when you use "my world" and "blow the bucks" in the same paragraph. You admit that you see no need to listen to six figure speakers so you dont know and should remain silent. The ideal Tekton customer I should think. |
That's right--never heard a good speaker. My reference is live music--not so sure I need to a good audio show and "work my way up to $250-500k speakers". Love it when terms like "blow away" are used. Totally worthless and unqualified. Value is a relative term. A $250k speaker would never have value in my world. But if you want to blow the bucks be my guest. |
“Like anything in life, value diminishes as you go up the ladder.” You must not have heard any good speakers. I can list numerous speakers in the $3k-$10k range that would blow away the double impacts. I suggest that you attend a few good audio shows that have good systems starting with a few grand and work your way up to the $250-$500k systems and then tell me if there isn’t a huge difference in sound quality. I have speakers in the high 5 digit range and there are some very good speakers in the low 6 digit range that are better. |
I have helped rebuild several of these speakers The cAbinets are a joke ,just mdf and ring like a bell The drivers are of a ? Brand and the Xover Very low quality. They ever put a electrolytic capacitor In the Xover that magnitudes more noise . In any quality speaker poly caps or foil only the inductors were low quality iron Sledge hammer type, the $30k model a giant coffin AnD THE BS on competing with Any quality speaker No way,big soundstage , thats it no great imaging Payed for reviews. Why do you think they were very hot 2 years ago Now average sales at best,and good luck on the Resale market, sad but True !! |
Exactly. I just posted the same thought in another thread (although went with $3-10k). The Double Impacts are the speaker that put Tekton on the map. I have said this before--the value on the end product is HUGE and maybe unsurpassed in the industry when you look at the cost of all the components, cabinet, etc. And then have it delivered across the country for $3k. Insane value. All of this would mean nothing if the speaker didn't sound great. It does and in so many ways. And to those who want to double the cost of their speaker with a fine veneer--go for it! As for me, I would rather spend my money on sonics, not eye candy. As for the Moab Be, I have never heard it. Like anything in life, value diminishes as you go up the ladder. For me, it would never be worth it when I consider how much I have enjoyed the DI's. |
Since 99.9999% of all stereophile reviews end up with the reviewer stating this is the best his setup has ever sounded, best of the best, and most of the time the product competes with others that are many times the price. None of this occurred, and just the opposite happened, the ratings review of class B speakers that competed with these speakers, were 1/5th less to 1/2 the price of these tektons, not good. I haven’t read any of the other reviews that the reviewer has been threatened but I’m guessing these weren’t favorable reviews either. |
I wouldn’t say it was a bad review at all. I think it was pretty clear the reviewer said the Moab was a great speaker for the price and the BE version not so much because only marginally better. I’ll say it again, the Double Impacts do things I’ve not heard other speakers do. Giant killer for 3k? Maybe. Better than 10k + speakers? Probably not in most cases but they are pretty damn good for 3k. Never heard the Moab. |
@rvito , I'm pretty sure you can get Tektons in almost any finish you like. Including real wood veneer. Of course, that costs more, but......it's available. At least I'm pretty sure it used to be, anyway.
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I have been an Audiophile for a long time and have owned a lot of different Brands over the years including Infinity Irs Betas. I have to say my Moab’s are my favorites. Not the prettiest to look at but who cares. I use an Ps Audio Bhk preamp with a Bhk 250 power amp. I just wish Tekton would step up their game and offer some models with a nice wood finish cabinet. |
@roxy54 I do not think there is a glimmer of hope for m200 |
@mark200mph Got it. It seems that AI messed a lot in your post. Maybe you could use "a scope 6 ft tall that would arc inside when turned on" to fix this "Ai". |
Again artificial intelligence changes words and spelling of words at that it did .perhaps they need better programming of thier software. My undergrad degree was computer science.this could use a software update can you do that for the android phone I'm sure you smart enough.so we don't have to have this sophmoric conversation again. |
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I have many speakers and enjoy them all.beauty is in the eye of the beholder.so is sound.dad was a physicists we build some of the first Motorola computers for home use several tube amps several speakers.i have so many equations in my head because I was raised by the scientific method.i put warm water in the ice tray in the freezer dad walks by sees it steaming then said q= mc delta t.where is your controller where are your measurements what are you going to time it with and so on.we hade a scope 6 ft tall that would arc inside when turned on.tube testers meters magnets ect. As a ear nose and throat and trauma MD who puts platers in people's heads and skull face ect I spent my life studying sound. I have the tekton moab s ulfbriks and other custom done by Eric tekton in between wilson maxx focal utopia be legacy and von s maggy evolution and others.i like them and enjoy my discussions with tekton.he will build you what you want.i knew wilson personally. I miss him.enjoy the music I say this not to gloat but you can learn something from everyone.keep an open opinoin. |