Speaker upgrade for classical music

I can vouch for a grahm audio awesome speaker as far as a bass issue you would go with the LS 5/8 there is a reputable dealer posting one on audio gone less than half off retail
Best of luck

Audiogon Sorry for the typo

audiokinesis/Duke:  I for one would love to read more about what you're describing. I have two questions in particular: 
1) You mentioned that envelopment can be achieved through a multi-channel system. Do you mean basically playing a normal, two-channel recording through two sets of speakers, one in front of you and one behind, with both sets playing the exact same thing? Or do you mean using special recordings that were intended to be used specifically with multi-channel systems (in which what the front set of speakers plays is not identical to the rear set)? 
2) The other way to achieve envelopment you describe is as follows: "By minimizing the energy in the early reflections, and having plenty of spectrally-correct energy in late-arriving reflections, and using diffusion instead of absorption..., we can use these later-arriving reflections to effectively present the venue cues on the recording. And when the venue cues on the recording dominate over the playback room’s inherent small-room signature,...we have envelopment." I'm confused by this. If we are deliberately emphasizing later-arriving reflections created by OUR OWN ROOM, how is this the same as "the venue cues on the recording dominate over the playback room’s...signature"? By definition, if we're trying to make certain room reflections dominant, then we're not making the reflections captured on the recording dominant.

Magnepans 1.7i or the 3.7i if your room is big enough for 3.7i’s with a Parasound A21+ will be hard to beat for the money. For a preamp look at the Schitt Freya+. With the 1.7i’s you can probably do it all with some Canare speaker cable in your original budget and be a killer system with your subs.

The biggest Maggies or MLs you can afford or your room can take, plus maybe a couple of good subs.

I am in the 2 system camp as well. 

With A highly efficient speaker you will need very little tube power. I recommend starting over for the 2 Chanel system. Audio Note AN J speakers. You will save $4000. Then spend the rest on a nice Audio Note integrated tube amp such as the Otto or Soro or maybe a Mieshu. All with phono.

You won't be Sorry

Might I suggest that you take a look at several speakers from Shahinian Acoustics as on the used market two would fall within your range. The Obelisk and The Hawk Ensemble.

Richard designed these speakers to be omni directional to recreate large scale classical, choral, orchestra music which they excel at. In fact they do many different genres as I listen to a lot of Jazz and old school rock, classical and have several time tried Opera (with no great success)

I would google them and check reviews. Obelisk come up for sale every so often, Hawks, less so but do as I have been able to move up through the different versions of the Obelisks over the years and currently have them on my second system, the Hawks are on my main.

Worth the look

Hi OP, I would suggest that you keep what multi-channel system you have for when you need it. Then start building a really nice stereo system from square one. When you listen to classical, jazz and opera, what you really need is good stereo. As far as I am concerned, I don't need surround sound for those types of music...the performers are in front of me. A carefully assembled system fit for your room will give you the right tone, dynamics and immersive experience. It may take some time, as you have to research, plan and set a budget and the actual purchase and putting together may take months, depending on your resources; it takes patience and much anticipation but you will be rewarded. Just my 2 cents.

I say Magnepans. I have owned several, and for symphonic music they have no parallel. ESL’s are more detailed, but you need at least two pairs to do a symphony properly IMO, which is my current system.

Bryston amps work well with either. Not state of the art sound, but very good, and bulletproof, with superb factory support. Bryston owners sleep better. I used them until I went DIY and recommend them highly.

Hiphiphan wrote: "Audiokinesis/Duke: I for one would love to read more about what you’re describing. I have two questions in particular:

1) You mentioned that envelopment can be achieved through a multi-channel system. Do you mean basically playing a normal, two-channel recording through two sets of speakers, one in front of you and one behind, with both sets playing the exact same thing? Or do you mean using special recordings that were intended to be used specifically with multi-channel systems (in which what the front set of speakers plays is not identical to the rear set)."

Duke replies: I mean the latter: Special multi-channel recordings with the reverberation (ambience cues) delivered through dedicated surround speakers. Not that this is necessarily the only way a multichannel system can deliver envelopment, but it’s what I had in mind.

Hiphiphan again: "2) The other way to achieve envelopment you describe is as follows: "By minimizing the energy in the early reflections, and having plenty of spectrally-correct energy in late-arriving reflections, and using diffusion instead of absorption..., we can use these later-arriving reflections to effectively present the venue cues on the recording. And when the venue cues on the recording dominate over the playback room’s inherent small-room signature,...we have envelopment." I’m confused by this. If we are deliberately emphasizing later-arriving reflections created by OUR OWN ROOM, how is this the same as "the venue cues on the recording dominate over the playback room’s...signature"? By definition, if we’re trying to make certain room reflections dominant, then we’re not making the reflections captured on the recording dominant."

Duke: EXCELLENT QUESTION!!

Basically I’m advocating chopping the radiation pattern of a normal speaker into two pieces, aiming one piece at the listening area, and aiming the other piece in a different direction such that it arrives after some time delay, because this works WITH rather than AGAINST the playback room and the ear/brain system.

The proper role of the in-room reflections is to effectively deliver the venue cues on the recording, whether they be real or engineered or both (this isn’t their ONLY role - more on that later). However they also inevitably contain “small room” cues inherent to the playback room. The ear/brain system will accept (or synthesize) whatever sense of acoustic space is most plausible, and USUALLY this is dominated by the playback room’s cues.

The ear gets its information about the size of a room from two main sources: The early reflections, and the decay characteristics. The approach I advocate disrupts the “small room signature” cues that the early in-room reflections would normally convey, and effectively presents the decay cues which are on the recording.

The time delay between the first arrival sound and the “center of gravity” of the reflections tells the ear/brain system about the room size. If we can push that center of gravity back in time, we can disrupt and weaken the playback room’s inherent small-room signature. The approach I advocate does this by a) minimizing early reflections and b) adding MORE reflections which arrive at least 10 milliseconds behind the direct sound.

Now as long as the playback room isn’t overdamped, this additional reverberant energy results in a lot of spectrally-correct reflections, which effectively present the venue cues (and in particular the decay cues) that are on the recording. And part of this "effective" presentation is that the venue cues come from all around. (Directly from the loudspeakers is the WORST possible direction for reflections to come from, which is why overdamped rooms don’t convey envelopment). With a good recording, the venue cues carried by the reflections dominate and we can close our eyes and enjoy the illusion of envelopment. It’s not a perfect illusion of course, but imo it’s a worthwhile improvement to a normal stereo image.

The OTHER role of the in-room reflections, assuming they are spectrally correct, is to enhance timbre, much like the reflections in a good recital hall. Since the path lengths are shorter than in a recital hall we run the risk of degraded clarity if the in-room reflections are too loud, so I give the rear-firing driver array a user-adjustable volume control.

I realize these ideas are unorthodox and somewhat counter-intuitive. In particular it is counter-intuitive to think that by ADDING reflections, we might actually perceive MORE of the recording venue and LESS of the playback room. After hearing an abbreviated version of my schpiel at an audio show, Andrew Quint of The Absolute Sound pulled out a thumb drive and said, “I’d like to challenge that”. Obviously he was skeptical too! We played the piece on his thumb drive and I asked him how we did. He said, “It passed. It’s not a gimmick; it works. I clearly heard the acoustic signature of the Concertgebouw.”

Quoting from Andrew’s version of that incident:

"The recording was a FLAC rip of the CD layer of an RCO Live SACD: Shostakovich—Symphony No. 15; Concertgebouw Orchestra/Bernard Haitink conductor. It’s a live recording from March of 2010 (Haitink made a much earlier recording of the same piece with the London Philharmonic; he was the first person to record all the Shostakovich symphonies.) For a couple of years, this has been my go-to symphonic recording when I have just a short time to get a sense of an unfamiliar system. It’s an excellent performance, something I can listen to repeatedly without going nuts, which is important at a show. In terms of audiophilia, it’s an extremely detailed yet atmospheric representation of an orchestra, with excellent dynamics and fully characterized instrumental colors (bells, solo turns by violin, flute, piccolo, string bass, trumpet, etc.) And—with the right audio gear—it successfully renders the essence of (IMO) one of the greatest 3 or 4 concert halls on earth, the Concertgebouw (thus the orchestra’s name) in Amsterdam. I’ve heard music there, and there’s truly a sense of sound being present in the air around you.

“The multichannel program on the RCO Live SACDs (there are dozens) get this last aspect right; so did the Bienville Suite, nearly to the same degree, despite the presence of only two channels. My concern when Duke told me about the rear-firing drivers was that this would impart some generic, Bose-like spaciousness to the recording, but that wasn’t the case—what I heard was the unique acoustic signature of the Concertgebouw."

What we do has evolved since Andrew wrote that in 2016.

Duke

LS 3/5A (all around).

Some more recommendations. May be good to have a few options. 

Audio Solutions Figaro M speakers. Sounded really great at a show and has great reviews. 

http://hifiknights.com/reviews/speakers/audiosolutions-figaro-m-loudspeakers/

Could combine with a $4k amp to keep your budget. Like the Hegel H190.

Or go with Dutch & Dutch 8 which are active speakers with dacs built-in. 

I ’ve been playing with a Quad S5 recently , there is a Quad 4 (5 has one more) playing on You Tube . The true ribbon tweeter is something and speaker is easy to set up.

NOT trying to say anything about it to anyone but with all the talent on
audiogon on this post I would really be grateful if anyone would say what they think . Of course You Tube is not great.
https://youtu.be/zgq2qHzdm58?t=4   .Clearer and sweeter in my room.

Not all Tannoys are made in China! Only the cheaply priced ones....the legacy, prestige, and higher ups are all still made in the UK at the coatsbridge factory in Scotland. They Also sound great with classical music, in fact, All music. I am never going back to another speaker, I'm hooked on that Tannoy sound. Non-fatiguing beautiful sound....

Magneplanar. Possibly in biamplification, valve high, SS bass.

Curious why you think speakers for classical differ from speakers for other genres... there’s something you are looking for that you have not said.
Anyway, for $8k you ought to be able to get some great speakers. Before i suggest anything, i’ll mention that we all have different likes and dislikes, and I think simply throwing ideas at you is a fool’s errand.
In speakers, here is a huge trade off between achieving the bottom octave+ and both cost and size. You can get superb smaller speakers at the same price as good larger ones, but missing the lowest register. You will probably care for full orchestral music. one possible solution is satellites and a subwoofer - but subwoofer placement matters if you want actual, articulated, in-phase bass.
In full-range speakers have you heard Vandersteen 2s, 3s and Quattros? great performance for the price, and the baffle designs deliver good space and imaging.
How about Elacs? Spectacular reviews at the price, and a buddy just put them in their smallish NYC apartment with excellent results, The feedback he’s given me on some masterings tells the story - he can hear and the speakers can reveal. I don know what they sell int he higher price points - these were about $1k
I hate to say it but i dont know if Spica still exists. If they do their are a wonderful speaker --- with the caveat that it demands a subwoofer. Oh, and they are a cheap, small speak that is very demanding on amp quality and performance - i doubt yours is up to the task.
I think you need to go listen.

G

p: maggies are a good suggestion. And overall, don't expect speakers to make the magic without the rest of the stuff being up to snuff. Weak links in chains and all that

If you are content to sit in a rather narrow sweet spot, then consider highly directional (focused) speakers combined with phase management software to widen the soundstage and separate the instruments. The goal is to minimize room effects and maximize fidelity to the original recording, while bringing out details and also creating the illusion of a wide, holographic soundstage.

Speakers (more to less expensive, all these are hybrid electrostatic except the KEFs):
Sanders 10e
JansZen Valentina (floorstanding) A8
JansZen Valentina (floorstanding)  P8
JansZen Carmelita (stand mounted), active or passive
Martin Logan (various models)
KEF LS50

Software (more to less expensive):
BAACH4Mac audiophile version
BACCH4Mac intro edition
HAF

The JansZen speakers and the Sanders are ordered direct from the companies. JansZen offers a 30 day in-home trial (I think Sanders does too). But don't do this unless you're pretty sure they seem right for you (since re-boxing and returning speakers would be rather inconvenient).

For your budget, I'd suggest the JansZen Carmelita with the BACCH4Mac intro edition (then later upgrade to the audiophile edition).  The Carmelitas are not only less expensive than the Valentinas, but also would be easier to box up and return than the larger floor-standers if you are not satisfied. If these interest you, then maybe talk to David Janszen about the Carmelitas + subwoofers versus the Valentinas without.  My thinking is that the main advantage of the Valentinas is deeper bass extension, but you can get that from the subs (which also may make main speaker placement a little more flexible). I'm not sure, though, if JansZen active models are designed to integrate with subwoofers (or software like BACCH). If not, then go for a passive version with your existing gear. JansZen is the Ohio distributor for BACCH software, so they should be very familiar with how it interoperates with their loudspeakers.

Sonus Faber

@audiokinesis makes a good case for forward and backward firing speakers. I note that panel speakers, like Magnepans and ESL's, do that naturally. Without phase control of course.

I like that sound very much. A good complement is record or book shelving behind the speakers to diffuse the sound, creating a wonderful ambience. 

Having read the entire thread, I will comment only on speakers I’ve heard. Agree on Harbeth, but also agree with comment that they are a bit too smooth on the highs, lacking some detail. Own Totem and they are more like the instrument is in the room - like a live performance. I find upper tier B&W speakers harsh and tiring in the treble, but some see it as precision. I prefer the KEF products at comparable price points. To me they sound more natural. A brand no one has mentioned is Aerial Acoustics, based outside Boston. I’ve owned their Model 8B, no longer made, for a couple of decades. The newer Model 7B is also excellent and full range, but Aerial speakers need power. 
I concur with the idea of an amp upgrade. And would encourage you to audition before buying, especially with an 8k budget. But you could spend a good deal less and do fine with KEF or Totem. Also, I agree with view that tone and voicing of instruments is more important than imaging. And it is very difficult to mimic the sound of a venue because of your room’s unique acoustics. Listen and choose. Happy shopping. 

I personally do not think of Marantz and audiophile quality.  I use their largest receiver in our family room hooked up to a Definitive Technology surround speakers and a much better system in the living room.  Perhaps you should stretch your budget and upgrade your front end at the same time.  Not sure what to recommend for speakers.  I added a pair of REL S2 SHO subwoofers to my system and they filled in the lower end seamlessly.  Their high level connection technology allows them to act more like woofers.

a few comments on recent posts below

sonus fabers have been a quintessential speaker brand for classical music reproduction for many many years

focals would do well too

harbeths can have excellent detail, the overall presentation is warmer though... some folks mistake this for lack of detail

proacs have more ’overt detail’ as the mid bass is dialed back compared to harbeth’s voicing

british speakers from the bbc lineage or close relation thereof -- spendor, rogers, harbeth, kef etc etc -- are indeed very good at classical music as that was mostly what was being broadcast when the whole movement came to be - their lossy cabinets provide wonderful sympathetic resonances that mimic that of many acoustic instruments in symphonies and orchestras

open baffle/dipole/omni directional radiator speakers are very very good for classical as they aid in producing a large airy image and a ’wave of sound’

as always, in ANY of the above, room acoustics and system matching are very important to achieve desired results

About an hour and half away from you in Taos is a audio store, Sound Science, that sells Tannoy, Harbeth, Kef, and a few other good brands. Know nothing about them, but it might be worthwhile to give them a call.

These are a stone-cold bargain.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa20ah-graham-audio-ls5-8-full-range

Santa Fe Gestalt HiFi, Mike Phalan owner. One review of the lines he carries tells you
he has an ear for great sound. Furthermore he strikes me a fellow that cares about you
over your $. QLN may work. Shop used too. Now problem may be in finding product in your price range at his shop.
If I were you I would be spending a lot of time there listening and learning. If you must
have something tomorrow, good luck. 

Duke, thanks for the reply. When I read your first post in this thread, I got the impression you were suggesting emphasizing room reflections from the wall behind the listener. But after reading your second post, I realize you’re suggesting the use of additional drivers that are pointed at the wall in FRONT of the listener. This seems like it would be effective for enhancing the illusion of venue cues that came from the front of the venue. But it’s hard to imagine that this creates the feeling of "envelopment," since the reflections are coming from in front of the listener.
Two other quick questions if you’ll indulge me:
1. What issues arise from simply using two sets of speakers (one in front, one behind), both playing the identical signal from a regular, two-channel recording, but with the rear set of speakers positioned further away? 
2. What about near-field listening? If the speakers are very close to the listening position, almost creating a headphone effect, it seems like might work to create something close to envelopment. 

Hiphiphan wrote: "After reading your second post, I realize you’re suggesting the use of additional drivers that are pointed at the wall in FRONT of the listener. This seems like it would be effective for enhancing the illusion of venue cues that came from the front of the venue. But it’s hard to imagine that this creates the feeling of "envelopment," since the reflections are coming from in front of the listener."

Duke responds: My speakers are designed to be used with a lot of toe-in, like about 45 degrees, such that their axes criss-cross in front of the listener. This correspondingly "toes out" the up-and-back firing drivers, so their energy reflects off front wall and/or side wall, and ceiling, before reaching the listening area. And that energy continues to reflect around the room so it arrives from multiple directions, assuming the room isn’t overdamped, though the strongest reflections are those from the front half of the room. You can see an example in the first photo at this link. The stands have an up-and-back firing coaxial driver:

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/06/17/new-gear-from-audiokinesis-and-resonessence-labs-t-h-e-sho...

Hiphiphan: "Two other quick questions if you’ll indulge me:
1. What issues arise from simply using two sets of speakers (one in front, one behind), both playing the identical signal from a regular, two-channel recording, but with the rear set of speakers positioned further away?"

Duke: As long as the rear speakers aren’t too loud, that stands a good chance of being beneficial. If possible, position and/or orient the rear speakers so that their mids and highs arrive at the listening area at least ten milliseconds behind the output of the front speakers. Sound travels slightly more than one foot per millisecond.

Hiphiphan: "2. What about near-field listening? If the speakers are very close to the listening position, almost creating a headphone effect, it seems like might work to create something close to envelopment."

Duke: In my experience nearfield listening can give excellent clarity and imaging, but you still need the reflections delivered from all around to produce envelopment.

The worst possible direction for reflections to come from is the exact same direction as the first-arrival sound. In that situation, they tend to be interpreted by the ears as coloration. This has been established by controlled blind listening tests. So the worst direction for the ambience cues on the recording to arrive from is directly from the speakers.  In a nearfield setup the idea is to be close enough to the speakers that they are much louder than the in-room reflections, which does not promote envelopment.  When the ambience cues on the recording are delivered from many different directions by the in-room reflections, that’s when they have the best chance of conveying envelopment. In fact multichannel music done right uses the surround speakers to ensure the delivery of the recording’s ambience information from many different directions.

I have experimented with optimizing the arrival direction of the additional reflections, and with optimizing their arrival time.  I found (to my surprise) that the arrival time matters more.  

Duke

Duke, thank you for the replies. Much food for thought. I have the Raidho D3.1 (I purchased them used; I'm not wealthy). Is the SuperStand, which contains the back-firing driver, compatible with a floor-standing speaker such as this? And how does The Swarm Subwoofer system fit in (or is it not compatible with the SuperStand)?

Actually, I had a break in my Tannoy journey after a bad divorce left me without them. After that, I'd been using some B&W's for mains, and bought some KEF's for center and surrounds at a very good price.

After that came a nice pair of Dynaudio's, but after a few years, the itch to get back to Tannoys started to get to me, so when my new Tannoys came on line, I still had my KEF center and surrounds. They have now been upgraded with a new KEF center, and some very good Pioneer Andrew Jones designed speakers for surrounds. Both are a fine upgrade, and they have added to my enjoyment of multi-channel music.

As I mentioned before, both the Tannoy and KEF are Dual Concentric (tweeter in the center of the woofer). I wish I could have you listen to my system. I live in the Pacific Nor'west in Puget Sound on Whidbey Island. That's a long way from Maine, but maybe you'll come this way for one reason or another some day. You'd be welcomed.

Regards,
Dan 

Hiphiphan wrote: "I have the Raidho D3.1 (I purchased them used; I’m not wealthy). Is the SuperStand, which contains the back-firing driver, compatible with a floor-standing speaker such as this?"

Duke replies: Very nice speakers!!

I have not tried adding extra rear-firing energy to a wide-pattern speaker like your Raidho’s. So at this point I’d have to say, I don’t know yet. I can think of arguments both ways, but such arguments pale into insignificance compared with the certainty of actually trying it. I hope to find out some day.

(The Sonus Faber Aida, their current top-of-the-line model, uses what looks like a rear-firing mini-monitor. The Sonus Faber loudspeaker [a previous top model introduced in 2009] also used a rear-firing mini-monitor. So it MIGHT work well with your Raidho, but I’m not sure... to a certain extent it depends on the "voicing" of the Raidho.)

Hiphiphan: "And how does The Swarm Subwoofer system fit in (or is it not compatible with the SuperStand)?"

Each SuperStand incorporates a passive subwoofer, in the top half of the "notch", so a pair of them are essentially one-half of a Swarm.

Duke

Thanks again Duke. When I get the itch to change the system, I'll keep this discussion in mind.

Question about monitors like the Graham Audio LS5/8 vs Ls9/f floor standing speakers. What are the pros and cons of the monitor?  Do I need to add a separate subwoofer?  For classical music maybe not?  But for jazz maybe yes?  

For string chamber music, Hartbeth Compact 7ES3 would be pretty good. Recently I bought Jungson power/pre amp, and they sound pretty good for the price. You can try their integrated amp Jungson JA-88D.

Long thread. I'm going to depart from everything said here and say that the one thing that you said you don't have is actually the thing you should have. If you are classical musician and really want the sound of a symphony you need to turn to vinyl. No digital or CD signal will ever give you that experience that you seek no matter how much you spend on equipment. Vinyl pressings from the '50s '60s and early '70s were far better than anything made today except for rare exceptions. The fabulous thing is that nobody wants vinyl classical and it can be had at ridiculous prices all the time.

You need to look into this seriously and, when you do, look at classical recordings on London vinyl which is actually English Decca made for the US market, EMI, Angel (only those pressed in England, Phillips pressed in Holland, and RCA Living Stereo Red Seal with Nipper (the RCA dog) in the shade. You will spend a fortune trying to accomplish this with digital media. There will be people who will disagree vehemently with this statement. If you love and know symphonic sound vinyl and tape are only way to get it. 

There are exceptional CDs and digital streams available of truly great performances so there is no question that there is great music in digital format but if you're really looking for the true experience you will save yourself a lot of time and money by getting a good turntable, an exceptional cartridge and a world-class stylus. Also you will need a good phono stage. 

Follow some of the value-oriented advice that you've gotten here on speakers so that you don't have to spend all your money on them and now have enough to pursue vinyl and start building an incredible collection for next to nothing.

Scansonic new editions or marten speakers 

As a listener who enjoys large scale music, including classical, my recommendation is to find a pair of Emerald Physics 3.4s or 2.8s. The 2.8s are 3.4 PLUS dual 15" carbon fiber woofers per side. Both are 93dB+ and easy loads to drive. Currently running my 3.4s + 2 SVS subs

Since these are now discontinued they are available used under $2K

FWIW I had Magnepan 3.5Rs prior and never could get a proper seamless blend with my subs, even tried biamp and active XO, and anybody's guess how well your amp would drive them

hth

@ssmaudio  To actually answer your question, the bass issue would depend on your room and where you decide to position (or have to position) the speakers.  Also, remember that larger speakers that need some kind of stand to lift them a little off the floor can have a lot more internal volume than many small floorstanders.  I suppose technically the LS 5/8 is a monitor, but it doesn't conform to our usual modern understanding of that term.  The REL's you have are good subs, so to my mind this is a non-issue.  Get the best sounding speaker you can, then worry about lower-end bass later.

BTW, that recommendation for QLN a few posts ago is an interesting one.  They were very high on my "try to hear" list, and I have every reason to believe they would be very good.
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020/05/15/qln-prestige-three-loudspeaker-review/

Another Magnepan recommendation here. My friend who played in an orchestra and has an amazing system of his own always loved hearing my 1.7i now upgraded to 3.7i and would say it was the most realistic sound he ever heard. I'm using these in a 12 x 15 room.
Hopefully the pandemic will be over soon so you can hear for yourself.

I'd guess that almost any speaker you carefully is going to be a huge improvement over the Polks.  They're probably good for the money but compromises in floorstanders at that price point are huge.

I'd have a hard time saying no to these for 8k.  They've got powered bass so should be fine powered by a big receiver.
Vandersteen Model 5A Floorstanding Speakers; Gloss Black Wrapped Pair - The Music Room (tmraudio.com)

These would be awesome, I'd be a little concerned trying to power them and a bunch of other speakers from a single receiver.  You'd probably want to keep the volume moderate and eventually get a separate power amp to power them.  You could get something like a Parasound A21 for $12-1500
Thiel CS3.7 3.7 Speakers RARE and COMPLETE | eBay

If you want to go new I'd be hesitant to spend 8k.  It's such a huge jump from what you've got and you lose a ton of money if you decide you made a mistake.  The Vandersteen 2Ces are a good place to start for around 3k.  That basic model has been around for decades.

@jon_5912 and @skywachr, I get what you’re saying about spending too much. I’m thinking of spending maybe 3k on speakers (am partial to the Tannoys Or used Graham Audio for now—am going to listen to them today), 4k on pre-amp plus amp.
Regarding vinyl: two reasons I’ve been hesitant to go down the path. 1) I’ve been aware of the deficiencies in my current system and didn’t want to have another set of things to spend money on and 2) to be honest, I’m not sure I can hear the difference between digital and vinyl.
I don’t want to start this wonderful thread on the rabbit hole of the age-old digital vs vinyl debate, so let’s leave it there. I’m willing to give vinyl a try and change my opinion after I’ve addressed the current deficiencies In point #1 above. (BTW if you have reasonably priced turntable recommendations you can send me an email at ssmbogus at gmail plus the com part. )

I’m not sure I can hear the difference between digital and vinyl.

Analog folks would chuckle. LOL
To feel the depth and width of orchestral music and to get accurate timbres of all orchestral instruments with digital media, you would need to spend well over $10K for speaker, amp, and CD/SACD player.
However, $10K vinyl system would easily prove you that vinyls sound better than CDs. Jungson int amp ($1200) + Speaker (Harbeth C7 ES3, $4000) + Turntable ($2000, cartridge included) + phono preamp ($1000) + cable ($500) + cleaning system ($300)  + SACD player ($1000)  would be a nice setup for classical and jazz music. If you need more bass, you can add a $1000 subwoofer later.

Why not start with digital and then determine if you really want to go the analog route.  You will always be in the hunt for good vinyl.  if you can tolerate the pops, clicks, hiss and warped records then that's fine.  You might as well forget new releases since they will be digitally recorded for an analog record.  This limits you to old releases or new ones made from the master tapes.  Others may disagree but I have found that you may need to spend a lot more on an analog setup to get "better" sound than digital.  

To all of you who recommended Harbeth and Tannoy. So I went on a road trip to Taos and checked them out at Sound Science. It was a Harbeth P3ESR and a Tannoy 6f with a Lyngdorf amp. I did like the Tannoy sound better. Don’t get me wrong, the H was magnificent, but it seemed to me that it was trying to make the sound warmer than it needs to be. The Tannoy was a bit harsher, but it reproduces the original with greater fidelity. Anyway, that was my impression.

I listened to my favorite recording of Bach’s solo violin pieces (esp the mighty Ciaconne) and the Tannoy definitely was the better for my ear. The Harbeth rounded the sound too much—I couldn’t hear the attacks of the chords or double stops that I expect.

I think this may be the difference that my ear hears because I know how it’s supposed to sound having played a lot of these pieces myself and having heard all those pieces many times live and in recordings.

The search continues for the speakers. 
Regarding the amp. Anyone have any comments on the Lingdorf SDA 2400?  

Sorry I missed your budget initially as I am functionally blind. You have a lot of very nice suggestions but I agree that you need to upgrade your amp and speakers.
Right in your own town of Santa Fe is a speaker maker named Viking Acoustic.  David Counsell, is the speaker builder and you should give him a call. He just delivered a pair of speakers to me and I couldn't be happier.

He also builds and sells integrated amplifiers that would go extremely well with the Viking speakers.  You can go to his studio and listen to what he has.  A super nice guy and incredible craftsmen.  

For the money, you can't beat the Raven Blackhawk integrated amp.  You should also look at the Raven line of speakers.  They were designed by a classical musician.  I have owned the Raven amplifiers so I can speake honestly about them.  Same with Viking Acoustics.  

op

glad you got out heard the speakers demo-ed... not easy in this time we are in

curious why you only heard the little harbeths vs tannoys... did the dealer not have the larger harbeths?

anyhow, i agree that harbeths have a warmer presentation... system and equipment matching can help to highlight the treble more if the user desires...

to me the harbeth sound is more mid hall in an symphony hall, whereas more forward (and equally excellent) speakers like proacs or spatials give you more of a 'row 10' presentation

all a matter of taste, which is why so many different successful speaker brands exist

good luck!

Hello, I sent a message. 

I’m in the very similar situation. :) 

If you like Tannoy you should try to listen to Fyne also. A lot of old Tannoy people are working there. F702, for example. 

The attacts and stops are what me listen to Totem Forest’s .

I assume that was the Revolution XT 6f.
If so, they don't really reflect "true" Tannoy sound.  You only get that when you arrive around the Stirling/Cheviot price point and then on up.
Does Upscale do home auditions?
https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/tannoy
I also wish you'd been able to hear something like this larger Harbeth.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/harbeth-super-hl5plus-loudspeaker

I did hear the Turnbury. Wow, blew my socks off. The details and imaging were amazing. That’s more of a true Tannoy sound. 
With the aim of not letting the perfect stand in the way of the good, I’m leaning towards the XT 8F and then upgrade to a “true” Tannoy in a couple of years.  The true ones are out of reach for me right now.  Will try out the larger Harbeth and Graham Audio then. Can’t really now with all the Covid crap going on.