I see a lot of good recommendations above. I don't see Ohm mentioned. These are great for 5.1 and normal 2-channel. I use them for both. The company has several combinations of HT setups well within your price range. They also have a long audition period in your home (120 days). I suggest you call them and discuss your needs - they are very helpful.
What I find useful is the Ohm's wide area of imaging, so people not sitting on the centerline between the front pair of speakers can enjoy good imaging too. I have not heard other speakers do this as well as Ohm, yet. This is the primary reason I use these for HT. |
I am a former classical musician, who has exactly the same taste that you have in my listening. I have a pair of GoldenEar Triton 1 speakers which are excellent for classical and Jazz. With your budget you could try the GoldenEar Reference speakers, the next category up from the Tritons. |
Another string player here (violist) who has gone to planars.
I have heard Maggies, Apogee ribbons and my custom made planars, and there is so much less "thickness" to the sound, than the cone drivers I have heard (not exceptional speakers, but I have owned Linn Isobariks, Tannoy dual concentrics, and Goodmans).
As someone mentioned above, however, planar type speakers are not great for extremely loud volume levels, like 20th century orchestral stuff and rock. I am now used to the more transparent sound of my planars, and find my cone speakers too congested and thick sounding, as attractive as this sound can be.
But I do think thin membrane speakers sound more like the master tape (I listen mostly to vinyl).
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Hello,
I don’t normally respond to posts on this forum, because I don’t consider myself to be in the same league as others. However, I have been through this myself. I also listen to mostly classical music and here’s what has worked for me. I have been through a lot of gear over the years, and this is my current setup. I am using a Sansui AU-919 amp (the black-flag capacitors have been replaced), a Linn Sondek LP12 TT, an NAD 516BEE CD player, and 2 sets of speakers: a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 10s and a pair of Paradigm S2s. The Paradigms are mostly for chamber music and the Monitor Audios are reserved for big orchestral works. My room is 20x24 with no special acoustical treatments. I am using 16 gauge speaker wire that I bought at Home Depot. I probably have about $7,000 into the whole works.
Here’s the test. Listen to the Chicago Symphony/Pierre Boulez recording of Stravinsky’s Firebird.
Good luck. |
I think you need to upgrade all the other equipment before you think of speakers,that's not very audiophile quality equipment. |
I definitely think trying fundamentally different types of designs is a good idea. If you had a chance to hear some Martin Logans or Quads that'd be great, Magnepan is a different spin on the panel design. There are some cone speakers that use small, light cones that sound a lot closer to electrostats than most speakers. Think Thiel's 3" midrange or ATC's 3" mid dome. |
The pursuit is endless and hard to tell where to start or end. I personally have a set each of Acoustic Zen Cresendo II and Adagio speakers that I listen to everyday. Primarily jazz, blues, classical and do venture out elsewhere. For the dollar the Adagio are unbelievable for separation, soundstage and detail for classical (not bad on Pink Floyd stuff either). Robert Lee is a great guy to talk with and work with. Worth the look before spending.
Just my thoughts! |
One word: Vandersteen. The best, most consistently pleasing sound I’ve yet heard from multi-driver speakers came from Vandersteen. This is how you get that slightly warm, spacious sound in a room: the 6 dB/octave crossovers & set-back driver placement assures time coherence of all sound arriving at the ears. It’s superb for classical music recorded in real space--and quite revealing of that space. In your room you would do well with either of the 2 models linked below (which are also available used, depending on location): https://www.vandersteen.com/products/model-2ce-signature-iiihttps://www.vandersteen.com/products/model-3a-signatureNote: unless you listen to lots of organ music, no subs are needed with either of these models IMHO. Note-2: If the size of either Vandersteen is an issue in your room, then consider Harbeth (I second this recommendation others here made). I've heard both the 30.2 & 40.2 stand-mounted 3-ways, and that is a truly lovely sound for classical music. Neither is a budget speaker and there are fewer F.S. options available (in Santa Fe as everywhere). |
I listen to a lot of classical music, used to play a few instruments, and we try to see a few live performances (both amplified and unamplified) a year although that's obviously been on hold for a while now.
Personally I would recommend auditioning Magico, Vivid Audio, or YG Acoustics however only Magico and Vivid have speakers in your budget when purchased new and they're the bookshelf speakers. A used pair might be an option for one of their floorstanding models.
When I want to hear everything as realistically as possible, with all the detail and clarity, I listen to the Magico M2 speakers with the Devialet Expert 440 Pro all-in-one electronics. This combination will not sound warm, but you could add some warmth using the Devialet Sweet Room PEQ.
I agree with 4vintplay that the Acoustic Zen speakers would also be a good option. While not providing the transparency of Magico, Vivid, or YG, in my opinion they will outperform many other speakers at similar price points and provide a warm, realistic sound that many musicians would like.
On the other hand, if you want to hear what the recording engineer heard, you might want to look at ATC speakers and Bryston electronics. Or the Trinnov Amethsyt / ST2-HiFi. And maybe a DAC with a pro-audio lineage like RME, Prism Sound, Antelope Audio, etc. |
After reading all these suggestions I would settle on a pair of smith and Wesson. |
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Along with my various B&W's and other speakers, I had electrostatics for 25 years. If you don't mind staying in one place, they are hard to equal on acoustic music, especially on violin.
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Im not a fan monkey coffins: they are UGLY, especially when some sweet and sexy open baffle choices will do everything maggies can do (I had 3.5Rs). I tried biamping, bypassing the OEM passive XOs with an active XO, dual subs but they just didn't integrate to my liking.
Im a huge fan of Emerald Physics OBs (currently off the market, new version coming). My 3.4s have much more realistic bass, easier to drive, and don't look like 2 large doors dividing the room. That said I recently put my 2 subs back in which makes for an even bigger soundstage. Fantastic for large scale orchestras. Since these models are discontinued you can get the 3 series or 2 series for well under 3K
hth
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Give a chance for active monitors, first of all: Neumann, Genelec, ATC.
I have now a Graham LS5/8 in my second system, really fantastic, organic, big, natural.
But I love my older big professional main monitors and can recommend everyone to try them.
Professional gear often offers more sound for the money, and active monitors can designed for better matching between amps and speakers/drivers. |
You need speakers that can deliver scale, dynamics and accurate instrument voicing primarily. Maggies are ok but can lack dynamic freedom needed for large scale orchestral. B&W 800 Diamonds deliver detail of Maggies but also enjoy being pushed...huge soundstage and dynamics are easily handled! |
Agree 100% on B&W. For room of your size 802 model will be the best. You should be able to find 802D or 802D2 under $8000 on used market.
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If you have $4 - $5 grand to spend, with your electronics and desire for classical music and midrange, you really need to consider Sonus faber Sonetto V’s at $4,999.00. Quintessence Audio in Chicago is a great dealer with good demo capabilities and knowledgeable staff. They may even have a demo pair at less money. The Sonetto’s are easily matched with amps both SS and Tube. I have owned Luxman, and Rogue Audio amps and Focal, B&W, Yamaha NS 1000, and finally Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 and now Sonetto V speakers. While I don’t have a $100k system, mine is a $15k system. I’ve had friends with $70k systems say they can’t get the sound that I have. I can only agree that Dynaudio, Monitor Audio and the many other suggestions you’ve received are good speakers, but you’d be selling yourself short if you don’t at least audition the Sonetto V’s. Good listening and good luck! |
I've never liked Polk Audio loudspeakers. Big cabinets stuffed to the gills with cheap drivers and sold for cheap. They look good, but... Your very best value is in a good DIY loudspeaker project, or possibly finding a well-made DIY set used. Don't turn your nose up at DIY. Many of the designs are done by the best audio engineers on the planet and are just as good as the best commercial designs. Within your $8k budget, you could easily put together the Linkwitz LX521 system and never want another speaker again for the rest of your life. Will stand up against the top line $100k MBL system. The LX521, properly done, has no need for sub-woofers. This is a project you could readily afford. They do come up on the used market from time to time, but they're so good that few have a need to part with them. The primary drawback with the LX521 is that it uses an active crossover and multiple power amps, so it's a considerably more complex project, but many have built them and you WILL be the envy of every audiophile visitor. Another DIY project is the SEAS Thor. Total materials cost will run you about $2500. If you don't want to build it, Madisound partners with a cabinet maker that will make it up for you and ship it to you. Delivered will probably run you about $3500. The Thor was designed by Joe D'Appolito, one of the best known loudspeaker designers on the planet. This is not some cheap throw together. This is true audiophile hi-end. This design is very comparable to the Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphene, which retails at about $13,000. Both designs use the same tweeter and have transmission line cabinets. The Thor uses a slightly larger bass driver. |
I own the old magneplanar IIIa for 33 years. Insuperable for classic and jazz music. |
You should be considering a three way floor standing speaker of some type if you are playing classical music. I still have in storage a pair of Focal Electra Be speakers I used to have in my
TV and listening room in my last home. I had a larger listening room; a little larger than yours -and with a 200 Watt McIntosh amp driving them I was able to enjoy pretty much the entire sound spectrum.
By the way, I live in the Phoenix area and could even set up the speakers if you were interested in listening to them. I am planning to see the Focals later this month, so you could have first listen to them. |
Second the Sonus Faber recommendation. (They also look great, if that is a consideration in your family.)
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Warm Greetings ssmaudio,Give Brian Herndon a call at Herndon Audio in Albuquerque.He has golden ears. You can demo Magico and other speakers there in Albq. I have purchased demo high end cables from him and he gave me great prices and was easy to work with. I worked on the phone and on email with him.
Leon, formerly of Santa Fe for many years now rural Iowa
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Here is my vote for Magnepan or Harbeth too. I have owned serveal pairs for both over the last 30 years. You might consider owning both. For large orchestal / choral music use the Maggie's. For chamber music or jazz use the Harbeths. Magnepan's are terrific bargains and you don't have to go to the top of the Harbeth line to get a fantastic speaker - or - consider buying used. Listen Up in Albuquerque carries Magnepan. I have been a customer of Listen Up over the years and can recommend them. You should go listen to Magnepan before buying them - they are not universally loved. Good luck! Happy New Year! |
If you are serious about having a system that could accurately reproduce classical music then you need to start from scratch. That means get a new amp, source etc. The easiest way is to get a one box solution with an integrated amp and a decent streamer. As such you’ll need to first decide on speakers and then pick an appropriate amp. However, it gets more complicated. Classical music encompasses everything from solo instruments to a full scale symphony. It is very difficult if not impossible to get everything to sound accurate and recreate the massive scale of a symphony for less than 50k. This could take years of trial and error to get right. First you need to Read more on this forum, this topic has been discussed to death.
I listen to classical almost exclusively. Over the last 8 years I’ve had multiple speakers amps etc. Ultimately I ended up with two systems, one powerful system for large scale works and a smaller system for solo piano, violin, trios quartets etc. I couldn’t do it in one system no matter how hard I tried.
Speaker Recommendations here that worked for me include: Harbeth, Sonus Faber, Vienna acoustics, Totem. A speaker that wasn’t mentioned is Triangle, a horn loaded French speaker. The amps have to be specific to each speaker.
My current system for symphonic works and concertos : Sonus Faber Elipsa SE with McIntosh gear MC452 and C2600.
System for solo instruments and vocal: Diapason adamantes speakers with Mastersound tube amp. A tube amp is absolutely necessary for strings and piano to get right.
If you can only have one system, My recommendation is harbeth 40.2 speakers with a nice tube amp. I know your stated budget is 8k and I also had a budget of 5k initially. If you can budget 8k on a speaker that usually means you can spend at least twice as much if not more. I got some of my equipment used on audiogon for 50-70% off msrp. So everything is possible.
Looking at audiogon right now I’d recommend SF elipsa SE, which you can get for around 9k (negotiate) and Audio research integrated Tube amp, GSi 75. It has an awesome DAC, preamp, and phono stage. All in one box. AR is very reputable company. There is one here for 10k, which you can probably get for around 8,5k if negotiate correctly.
For a source You’ll eventually want a turntable but don’t need to rush into that yet. Get a decent streamer like blue sound node and use a good dac. Send me a private message and I’ll send you samples of my system sound. |
I can echo Magnepans, perhaps 2.7qr's or 1.7i's in front, an MMG center channel, and two wall-mounted surround maggies. Buy used and your'll have plenty of change left over, and no need to ever upgrade speakers again. |
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I listen pretty much only to so called classical’ music from all times periods and genre and can as many have here recommend electrostatic and planners speakers for such music.
However after having owned Harbeths for 10+ years (M30s and then M40.1s) which were fantastic (as most ’BBC inspired’ speakers tend to be for ’natural’ sound). I will throw another make model into the mix that doesn’t get mentioned much but is also a matured classic still being manufactured today.
Which is the Finnish made Gradient ’Revolution’. which is easily within your budget new or used.
I went from the Harbeth M40.1s to active Revolutions around 6 years ago and have had no desire to change speakers since. |
Hello from NZ. My main listening is classical - Earliest is Buxtehude and latest is Pärt. Piano to Orchestral. My current speakers are Magico. They are nice and do classical just fine. I do not particularly recommend them but to get what you want I think the following need to be taken into account. First, you can improve your room. Judicious use of damping materials and experimentation of speaker placement can in effect largen your room. Second, there is no substitution for cubic inches. Yes small speaker manufacturers will claim otherwise - but it is difficult to work against the laws of physics. Third, do not get ported speakers (possibly a type known as Transmission Line). Once you lose the woolliness of the port you will benefit from a clear and more accurate sound. This is not without cost as sealed designs tend to require more amplification.
Finally I endorse upgrading the amplification. I think the amplification and speakers should really be regarded as a unit. In fact some manufacturers (eg ATC) do exactly that with the 'active' speakers. |
I have been following this post very closely. There are some great ideas. So here are my thoughts for what it is worth. Since you already have floor standing speakers for your front speakers, I would be looking at Vienna Accustics Beethovens. I had a pair of these in the past and loved them. Very articulate, and detailed. Smooth high frequency, balanced midrange, and perfect bass. Very much like you would experience in a concert hall.
I also agree that Magnepans are an excellent choice. Very detailed as well. Great for classical music. They also require a powerful amplifier due to the fact that they are electrostats. Maggies tend to have a sweet spot. You have to do a lot of speaker placements to find the ideal spot. Once you find that spot you will fall in love with the sound.
If you are thinking of bookshelf speakers, I recommend the Bowers and Wilkins 805 D3. I currently own a pair of these speakers. Great articulation and detail a little lite on the bass, which can be enhanced by a subwoofer. It is very important that you have good quality cables throughout your system. Pays off in spades. By the way the B&W speakers run $6,000 a pair. A little pricey, but worth every penny.
Harbeths are another good choice for a bookshelf style speaker. Great sound. They do look a little rustic, but sound fantastic. Highly recommended. Good luck on your search for your next speakers.
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@desktopguy One word: Vandersteen. The best, most consistently pleasing sound I’ve yet heard from multi-driver speakers came from Vandersteen. Agreed, but I’m biased. I listen to classical a lot, and my 2CE Sigs are wonderful for classical, and other musical genres as well. Great tone, which I think is the most important for classical, full body/range sound, not bright, detailed, and non-fatiguing. I listen for hours and hours at a time. Set them up correctly and wonderful soundstage. With the OP’s budget, he could also look at the Treo on the used market. That said either the 3A or new 2CE Sig 3’s are well within his budget new. |
To all of you: I didn’t realize that there would be so many people with so many wonderful suggestions. Clearly Magnepans, Harbeth and Tannoys among a couple of others are the favorites. Thank you!
Some of you suggested I need to update my front end. So to that end, I’ve bought a couple of reasonably priced used Parasound Halo P7 pre and a52+ amp to start with. I know a couple of others who have really liked the combination of those with the Exasound DAC—the one I use.
Regarding speakers: I’ve decided to try out Tannoy XT-8F for stereo and center, and smaller ones for surround. Yes, yes I know, it’s Chinese-made and not the pure Tannoy sound. However, I liked the sound when I heard it nearby. (In this day of Covid, one really isn’t able to travel and try different speakers.) Would love to hear the Harbeth, Maggies and the other favorites if we ever come out of this alive.
But thanks (or maybe it should be condemnation) to @russbutton I ended up down the Linkwitz rabbit hole and got totally fascinated! I read as many of his writings as I could find and he really is a man of my mind. He tried to recreate the original sound stage and imaging and detail without the boxy sound. I haven’t read a single reviewer who didn’t love them! So I’ve also been able to find an LX521 kit for cheap and am going to put it together and see what that’s like. So thanks @russbutton!!! I didn’t know about this guy at all.
If I like the LX521, I’ll sell a couple of the Tannoy 8F and leave the rest for my surround and center. That way I have a fabulous stereo system and a good surround system for my multi channel music. |
@andrei_nz You are not entirely correct. Evolution Acoustics speakers (MM series) are sealed box type woofers and bass amp powered but with transmission line loaded mids/highs. The entire speaker is 93 db efficient with a 6 ohm impedance +/- 1 db, 15 degree max. phase angle, time aligned. A 20 watt amp can drive it LOUD and clean but can take 100s of watts sa well.
Von Schweikert speakers also don't have a woolly sound from transmission line loaded woofers, some with and some without bass amps.
EA's micro, mini 1 and mini 2, possibly with their small sub should fit the bill for you at your price point. |
@ssmaudio The Linkwitz LX521 is intended for stereo listening. A friend originally built his with the intention to have it sit on either side of his large screen TV set, but it seemed to me that that large flat panel interfered with his imaging. When I heard the LX521 at the home of Siegfried Linkwitz, he was operating it strictly for 2 channel audio. I run his older design, the Orion, and use it strictly as a 2 channel system and have my TV elsewhere in the house with a simple sound bar. What's interesting is that the LX521 actually costs about $1000 less than the older Orion design and is more refined. As with most engineering, design involves incremental improvements and the LX521 is a winner. There is an on-line users group for all of the Linkwitz projects, with one sub-group dedicated to the LX521. There is no fee to register. I've always felt that the hardest part of building any loudspeaker was making them look good. The LX521 will never be seen as a beautiful loudspeaker, but with some care, can be make to look acceptable. If you haven't seen it already, there is an LX521 photo page at the Linkwitz site which will give you some ideas on what you might want to do in dealing with their appearance. Some guys get into exotic veneers and some simply paint them. One guy I know did a DIY project (not the LX521) and took his enclosures to an auto body paint shop, where they did a very nice paint job. Not cheap, but it looked pretty good. Naturally a pro paint shop could do anything you like, so that's an option most don't consider. If I were building this project, I'd go with the miniDSP 4x10 HD DSP crossover. Madisound includes the configuration file for the LX521. And if you want to go even deeper into the technology, miniDSP has a calibration mike they sell for less than $100 and you can tweak the system response for your listening space. Done properly the LX521 will result in something that nobody else will surpass, at any price. Though Siegfried has passed away, his wife still hosts visitors to hear he LX521 at their home in Corte Madera, California. The user group website does have a discussion thread devoted to people wanting to hear the LX521, but I don't know how active it is. If you want to go for the amplifier spec of 8 channels at 60 wpc, the B&K AV1260 is a MOSFET amp that covers it. 12 channels at 60 wpc. That's what I use. I bought mine used at $500 13 years ago and it's been flawless. There's one on EBay right now at all of $360. One of the great blessings of multi-amplification is that it greatly simplifies the impedance load that an amp has to deal with. No passive crossover. All it has to do is deal with the single driver itself. Good luck! |
No product recommendation but just a word of caution: if you care about violin timbre, play very close attention to crossover component quality.
I'm speaking as DIY hobbyist who has played the violin for 30+ years and mostly listened to violin music for 25+ years. I found that sometimes with $20 tweeters, when you use good capacitors, inductors and resistors in the crossover, they can still do a decent job with the string / rosin / wood body texture, but if you have a $200 tweeter via a cheap passive crossover, the textures can be washed out easily. Polk for sure use very cheap crossover components, and some $5K audiophile speakers use cheap components too. And it's not just the capacitor that matters - resistors and inductors affect violin string textures significantly as well. |
Gestaltt hi fi has some very fine brands. the Stenheim Alumine two would be worth listening.
Just no hype. soft dome tweeter Great efficiency so late you could upgrade to a sweet tube amp. Don't be fooled by the fact that it is a stand mounted speaker as a violinist you know how important the sound, the timber, the pitch, the tonal quality of music is. Worth giving them a listen..
I have never heard these speakers myself, but I had an upscale hi fi shop for years. so I think it is a good idea to know what you want to hear when you call them and tell them you would like to visit their shop. If you just walk in and say I am looking for speakers ......you could be all over the board.
Let me know if you do go for a listen...
Best
Jim |
