Solo streamer

Good choice! I also have an N200. I was tired of the constant upgrade game and wanted to get more of an end game streamer. I didn't care about the OCXO of the N20 since it wouldn't benefit me. I only stream USB.

m…yup. You’ve done that aplenty.

Caphill.

Again, rating equipment solely by relative cost isn’t a foolproof method.
‘There are so many exceptions.

OP, I absolutely agree, but that cuts both ways.  Just because a streamer is cheaper doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t sound as good as an expensive one.  That’s been my consistent point on this and many other threads.  And I’ve pulled data and measurements - yes, science - in support of this proposition.

and if you don’t hear a difference, you’ll be accused of having inadequate hearing, an insufficiently resolving system, or both.

@mdalton Absolutely not, at least not by me.  If the OP doesn’t hear an improvement I’d be pretty shocked but I’ll believe him 100%.  Hey, he has a 60-day return period so we’ll see, but I’d bet big $$$ that N200 goes nowhere.

And as far as his Benchmark DAC being a mismatch, perhaps that may be so at some level, but it’s sure as hell good and resolving enough to tell him if the new streamer sounds better to him or not, and if it does he reaps those benefits and can upgrade the DAC later if he chooses to get even more.  And maybe his DAC just sounds “right” to him, and if that’s the case and sounds even better with the Aurender then who cares how much the DAC costs?  I prefer my $3k speakers to plenty of others that cost more than three times as much, so cost is not an end all, be all indicator.  And I applaud the OP for choosing his gear by using his ears as the final arbiter.  Oh the horror!

The N200 was on my short list.  Ended up with the Innuos Pulse due to the preferred user app.  I purchased used for $2500 and added the Innuos Phoenix USB for $2000 which essentially upgrade my DAC (PS Audio Direct Stream mk 1) and and the Streamer.  Lots of great used deals available. 

I couldn't be happier with the result.

Started out with the same Cambridge unit.  Returned it.  Node N130 upgrade with LPS.  In 2nd system.  Then Eversolo DMP-A6.  Decent with a great app, but wanted more. Selling it.  Tried a HiFi Rose RS130.  Returned it.  Too much base boost after 100 hours burn in.  Tried the Pulse and loved it.  The itch is scratched.

@soix

That’s awesome, and really ballsy! Then which of your many personalities said this, in response to a member not even named MDAlton, just 7 days ago:

Streamers don’t have a sound and I agree software would be the focus.

Well that’s just completely untrue, poor advice, and the words of someone with little/no experience comparing streamers and/or has a system or ears incapable of revealing the differences. Both sound and software are vitally important, and discount either at your peril.

@mdalton If the OP doesn’t hear a difference I’ll completely believe him as I said, but as he has good ears and a good system I highly doubt that will be the case. And yes, if someone can’t hear differences between streamers, like yourself, I do assume that either the system or listener’s hearing is compromised. In your case it appears to be the latter but whatever. Again, we’ll see.

@soix

Lol!!!!! Thank you so much for that clarification!  

@rvpiano

I don't think you can go wrong with a 60 day return policy. You probably know this, but you might experiment with different cables before you make a final judgment. I don't have real expensive cables, but I can hear differences. I might have misjudged my streamer with certain cables. 

I'm using a $3649 retail streamer (Innuos Zen Mk3) and a $1650 Gustard R26 dac.  I bought the streamer slightly used for $2000.  Do I need a better dac? I don't know. The Gustard is pretty darn good for the price. 

Read this review and do some additional research; it will soon become apparent that his DAC is likely the next weak link, restraining N200 from revealing its full potential.

https://goldensound.audio/2022/04/06/benchmark-dac3-b-review-good-ish/

I have had a few streamers, the only one that has Stuck is the Magna HiFi Mano Ultra mkIII with separate Farad power supply…there is a bunch of software options, I use the Ropieee XL…for 1800$ It’s been flawless, 

‘out of the Netherlands…

Aurender N200 is a great streamer but is the value commensurate with the return?

Return meaning the most beneficial change in SQ. I was in the same boat, Node 2i into a Chord Hugo TT 2 into an M scaler. Everyone saying change the streamer.

My decision was up my DAC to a Chord Dave and the a DAC less streamer. After a serious deep dive these were the choices. Lumin U2, DCS network bridge, Aurender N10 (or 200), Inuous Zen MK III and Hifi Rose R130.  All good with different pros and cons, options etc. Really can’t go wrong with any of these as a streamer but if you’re looking for an increase in sonic quality look to your DAC first.

Stereophile evaluation of Benchmark DAC3:

“Highly recommended for Class A+ in Stereophile’s Recommended Components.”

The original DAC 3 was an excellent DAC for its price point. It is very resolving, and should be capable of rendering what the N200 brings to the table with no issues.

The only thing I would caution is that the DAC 3 is very, very linear, and the difference from going from the CXN V2 to the Aurender is that you may lose a tad bit of harmonics. As the CXN V2 is both warm and unresolving in comparison, the N200 is also very linear, but it is also much more revealing, and transparent. The space of the soundstage is so many levels higher than the CXN V2.

If you do need more harmonics or warmth after breaking in the N200, realize that it is the job of the source to render as clearly as possible, and for the rest of the system to shape the sonics to your preferences. If you instead seek a warmer or richer sounding streamer, try Innuos, but it won’t be as revealing as the N200, and the soundstage will shrink.

I congratulate the you on the N200. While it is a larger investment than many other things in your system, the quality of your source is something that should be worthy investing in, and it will open the pathways for other opportunities for your system to continue to flourish. 

I use an older Auralic Aries G1 streamer with an outboard DAC. The lightning DS app, while it has it's learning curve works quite well but my only comparisons are too Bluesound Node and Aurender n100 w/Conductor, I prefer the Auralic Lightning DS app.

Five years, from 2017-18 when the B. DAC3 was reviewed and measured by Stereophile and ASR, to 2022-23, is a significant product cycle for DACs. The premium-priced DACs that received favorable reviews back then may not even stack up well against modern, lower-priced DACs.

So, what DAC do you all recommend with a $6300 streamer? Mola Mola, Holo May, PS Audio, Weiss? Obviously, down the road, the OP will "eventually'' upgrade his DAC to one more cost commensurate with the streamer. That might happen this year, or 5 years from now, but yep. He will likely do so. 

I have a N200.   It's a great unit.   I am using it with the excellent sounding Lab 12 DAC 1 Reference .   I chose that DAC over several that were up to $2k more because I love the way it sounds.   Plus, if I ever upgrade that DAC the N200 will not be the bottleneck

Enjoy    

We all hear differently and have different priorities. There is no absolute answer here just an expression of preferences.  Having said that I am in agreement with those that find the source-DAC combination out of whack here.

   I have no doubt that the system will sound excellent.  If it’s the best allocation of resources is a secondary consideration and one that the OP professes not to be a consideration.

  I suspect it won’t be long before the OP is requesting advice about a more upscale DAC to pair with the new streamer

As the OP mentioned, he’s got a 60-day return window. If he does look for advice on a DAC upgrade after keeping the N200, it would mean that he has not only found value in the improvement the N200 made, and it is eye-opening enough for him to be curious and explore the potential of what other DACs may bring to continue the path to improvement.

If the streamer is not worth keeping, he’ll send it back and maybe try something different (maybe not even another streamer). Either way, there will be first hand learning and experience gained in the works, which makes it worth the effort.

We often frown at the idea of continued investment, but these are the types of moments that can also make this hobby quite exciting and fun!

As always, solid advice from Blisshifi.....   I really didn't NEED to upgrade my  Vault 2i , but I am glad I own the N200.   I stream a lot,  so to me it was a worthwhile purchase that made streaming even better.   

I just read the N200 manual. It’s not compatible with my needs , as a hard wired connection is not feasible for me and Aurender does not have WiFi connectivity.

SO, NEVER MIND! I won’t be buying it.

Can anyone suggest a quality streamer that has WiFi connectivity?

iFi Zen Stream, Pro-Ject S2 Ultra Streambox, Primare NP5 Prisma, Volumio Rivo

oh, or make your own using Raspberry Pi for less than $200.

Can you add a second router? My internet comes into the house upstairs. I use an Asus router.  I added a second Asus router downstairs close to my streamer.  Now, I can hardwire to the streamer. 

Yes, that was exactly what I was saying earlier.

If he sticks with a "not bad but not great" DAC, based on GoldenSound’s evaluation during the N200 evaluation period, he may not hear much difference or improvement due to the DAC’s limitations. Then what is the point?

The OP picked the most affordable DAC ($2k) from the 2017 Stereophile recommended A+ list, then chose a much more expensive streamer ($6.5k) based on some dealer’s personal experience. He did not bother to audition the Innuos streamer, which the majority of audiophiles here recommend, but instead chose to trust a random dealer and made an expensive purchase right away within a couple of hours. I would say this is a decision made in a rush manner.

I suggest stopping the defense of the B. DAC3 being an A+ class DAC based on today’s standards. GoldenSound is a credible reviewer, and his assessment is worth considering. There is no point in going through this experiment when you know the downstream analog component might not keep up with the upstream digital transporter, thereby defeating or invalidating the subsequent evaluation of the new streamer.

In terms of what DAC matches comparably with the N200, there are many options, but in my opinion combining what credible reviewers and you have mentioned, Chord (Dave; $14k), DCS (Lina; $13.5k), Mola Mola ($13.4k), Denafrips (Terminator + 12th; $10.3k), and Weiss (501; $10k) are possible contenders. Before taking on the Holo May ($5.5k) route, consider the Laiv Harmony ($2.7k):

Laiv Harmony DAC Review - Soundnews.

As a rule of thumb, you want to spend 1.5-2 times the money on a DAC compared to the streamer when the price is not a subject, although the cost is understandably never the only criterion justifying the purchase.

@rvpiano 

If you set up a simple Mesh Network, a Mesh access point with ethernet ports can facilitate using wifi to connect to a component that does not support wireless.

@moonwatcher

Just an fyi that I2S is synchronous.

With I2S the clock in the streamer will be the boss clock.

And unlike AES or Spdif, where the clock and data transmissions are multiplexed, with I2S the clock and data lines are separated from each other within the cable.

+1, @jazzman7

@rvpiano,

Mesh network is a better and robust alternative to WiFi. Check out eero mesh network,

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08ZK3D89L?ref=ods_en_vicc_firefly_nrc_ucc

Don’t waste your money, time and efforts on mediocre streamers like iFi Zen Stream, Pro-Ject S2 Ultra Streambox, Primare NP5 Prisma, raspberry Pi.

with respect to streamers, Goldensound recommends the ifi Zen stream ($400), Holo Red ($800), and Pi2 Design Mercury ($600).

I'd think the quality bump of the N200 would be worth running $200 of CAT6 cable a few feet. Just an idea. 

@jazzman7, thanks for the correction regarding I2S being synchronous.  All the more reason then to spend a bit more then on the streamer and maybe a bit less on a DAC if you aren't going to be using the DACs' femtoclock circuitry. 

@lanx0003  You seem to be missing the point.  The OP likes his Dac3, and I agree with him.  His question is about a STREAMER.  You seem to have cherry picked one negative review regarding the Benchmark, despite the many positive ones.  You may not know it, but not everyone thinks that newer is better.  Some are in love with the dac in their older cd players.

Did you know that the OP is a classical music aficionado and believes that his dac renders the music correctly?  Many agree with him.  For example:

"I concluded my May 2004 review of Benchmark's DAC1 by calling it an "audiophile bargain." The same applies to the DAC3 B. Highly recommended for Class A+ in Stereophile's Recommended Components, along with the DAC3 HGC, which Benchmark says sounds identical.—John Atkinson"

FWI this is from March 2023 https://www.stereophile.com/content/benchmark-dac3-hgc-da-preamplifier-headphone-amplifier-benchmark-dac3-b 

a hard wired connection is not feasible for me and Aurender does not have WiFi connectivity.

As others have said, all is not lost!  Get Mesh or a Wi-Fi extender and go hardwired from that to the Aurender.  @ghdprentice uses a Wi-Fi extender with his uber-expensive Aurender with great results.  Plus, you really don’t wanna use any streamer with pure Wi-Fi because the Wi-Fi receiver in the streamer can greatly compromise performance so you’ll be better off using a mesh/extender no matter what streamer you use.  Stick with the N200!

Thanks for the tips.  I’m reconsidering.

Complicating the issue is that I’m now liking  my current streamer and don’t know how much better the Aurender will be.

We’ll see!

You’ll know when you hear it. Give the N200 at least 10 days to settle by running it 24/7 (just set the queue to repeat all tracks). Don’t jump to conclusions too early. 
The included USB cable is actually not terrible so if you don’t have a good USB on hand, I wouldn’t hesitate and use the “stock” cable. 
 

I used powerline adapters for a few years and don’t recommend going that route.  I ultimately bit the bullet and paid someone to Ethernet wire the home ( and simultaneously install an antenna for OTA TV signals, as both of these required going deep in my attic and was beyond my physical abilities to do so).

  Coincidentally I had to interrupt the Ethernet connection for one of my VXN streamers and go WiFi (I was painting where the room where the Ethernet comes out of a wall).  I thought that the WiFi connection was a tick sonically below the wired connection.

  The OP was prepared to spend a chunk on a new streamer, I think in the 8 K range.  For a fraction of that he can pay for a first class Ethernet setup.  I think that it will make his current streamer a bit better, and if he ever decides that he really needs a component that requires hardwire, he is all set to go

When you upgrade it is nice to leave a little 'upside buffer'.  The N200 gives him this.  If he CHOOSES to upgrade the DAC one day, at least the streamer will be ready.  And to many ears, the N200 does sound better than the N150.  So leave the man alone.  Enjoy @rvpiano!

THANKS!

I thought that the WiFi connection was a tick sonically below the wired connection.

I had a similar experience with my secondary system via Wi-Fi with or without the extender. The degrading is ever so slight but audible.

+1 Aurender + extender. Capable of outstanding sound quality.

I have to say that the Pro-ject Stream Box S2 Ultra connected to a Denafrips Pontus II DAC sounds surprisingly good for its price. I got it as a starting point expecting to upgrade it. I'll admit ,it looks like a toy, but I'm realizing how good it sounds in comparison to much more expensive equipment.  in last two years, I've been listening to more expensive streamer-DACs to see what spending more money can get. 

A $14.5K dCS Bartok was okay. I was QUITE surprised to come away from that listening session thinking that I liked the sound of my setup better for 1/6 of the price. A $32k dCS Rossiini was good objectively, but it didn't  capture my attention. The only thing that I found that I liked better than my current setup was the Linn Organik DAC in the Klimax network music player. I think you can get the same DAC in a $22k Selekt setup.

@calvinandhobbes

(love your handle!)

your experience is consistent with what I’ve been arguing here: streamers don’t have a sound.  The difference across streamers is just differences in jitter and other noise.  So the best streamers just get out of the way so you can hear your dac, amp, preamp and speakers.  And btw, if you look at the lab reports section of the HiFi News review of your streamer, it has vanishingly low amounts of jitter and other noise.

I agree with those that have suggested the mesh router / network system. This is what I do, using the Netgear Orbi 6 around my house. I initially used a high quality ethernet cable straight from the satellite to my streamer but since have put in a few more steps (switch, etc).

Many streamers with wifi will suffer sonically as wifi is a source of noise, and digital signals are quite delicate and susceptible to noise  

Again, as both a dealer for Cambridge and Aurender, I believe you will be surprised at how much more information you will get from any Aurender.

True story - I once had a customer come in with his CXN V2 (streamer only, using its digital outs) to compare to an N200. Both were hooked up to a T+A DAC 200. We first played a few songs on the CXN v2, then we hooked up the N200. It took all of 10 seconds once the N200 was playing music for the guy say “I’m buying it.” The improvement in clarity, transparency, and soundstage immersion is immediately noticeable.

Do different WiFi extenders sound different? Anyone try more than one?

Thanks,

aldnorab 

Although I’m now really liking my current streamer, I have nothing to lose in trying the Aurender so I probably will let the sale go through.

@mdalton Interesting to hear that the HiFi News & RR lab reports show that the Pro-ject streamer has very low levels of jitter and other noise.

@aldnorab I've only tried one Wi-Fi extender, but the improvement it made over using the streamer's built-in Wi-Fi was immediately obvious.

One way to improve your current digital source is my removing noise from your system. I got an Audioquest Niagara 1200 power conditioner. It's been useful in unlocking more clarity and resolution.

@rvpiano

I also needed a no-nonsense high end streamer with wifi connectivity and bought a Métronome DSS. It is from a french company. Less known, especially in the US, but sounds great and looks good too. 

@cleeds

  I used a company that networks small offices for Ethernet wiring.  An electrician can do it but there are so many companies that do this for IT and are less expensive.