Millercarbon I would have to bring the Krell in tow to hear your Moabs as I would be crying hearing your wimpy 50 wpc tube integrated choke out at the music and listening levels I listen to.
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The 208's do look nice, and don't sound bad, they could sound so much better with just a few $ in parts@ rikkitik what would you change in f208's crossover and why? |
I would upgrade the quality of components. It's tricky business though. The esr/dcr values of the upgraded components can throw the "balance" out of whack, so that needs to be accounted for. The 208 uses small guage, high dcr coils, and iirc, at least one electrolytic in the signal path. The transparency of the 208, imho, would greatly benefit from better quality components. |
I have seen and heard the Tektons for years at RMAF as well as Revel and am surprised (others may not be) they are mentioned together at all. They seem so different sounding to me. I believe the Revel to be a far superior speaker in engineering and more importantly in fine sound quality. When I see 'unique' engineering and logic I wonder why I don't see it elsewhere. I remember thinking the Tektons looked a bit garage-built in a woodshop and the sound never did it for me. Different strokes... Please, for your sanity, pick the Revels and enjoy for a long time! I hope all the Tekton owners love and enjoy their speakers as well; that's why we got our stuff anyway. |
Only smaller gauge inductors appear to be targeted at the upper frequency where there already appears to be resistors for level matching so the largest gauge really does not matter. The low frequency inductors are not air core for the intentional reason to reduce DC resistance. rikkitik8 posts12-15-2020 4:58pmThe 208 uses small guage, high dcr coils, and iirc, at least one electrolytic in the signal path |
This is a really old article, and still relevant and covers this false notion about the perfection of 6db crossovers... https://www.passlabs.com/technical_article/phase-coherent-crossover-networks/ |
Physics and electrical engineering does not change suddenly because you don't own a speaker company. I don't own a speaker company, but I likely know far more about truly advanced active speaker design than David, Richard and John combined. Pass has done extensive measurements with his amplifiers driving real speakers, so his body of knowledge extends well beyond just the terminals on the back of his amplifiers. |
John Dunlavy also said this, Dunlavy: That's right. You can go one way but not the other. Flat on-axis response provides very poor correlation, in general, with what you hear. On the other hand, if you have near-perfect impulse and step responses, it follows that you must also then have from that a near-perfect frequency response on-axis. And using a first-order crossover network is the only way you can achieve accurate impulse and step responses. As soon as you go to a second-order crossover, the impulse response is hideous. And as Toole proved when at Harman, a flat on-axis response was absolutely critical to how well a speaker will be considered to sound. |
I will never forget spending an evening with John Dunlavy at his shop in Colorado Springs, ca: 1994. Gene, an 'experienced' audio salesman friend of mine from The Sound Shop took me there to see and hear the SC line and meet John. I thought John was quite an amazing person. It is a nice memory. The speakers were great and a firend got IVs |
I have the Revel F208s. They have been modded significantly. The have been driven by Parasound JC1 monoblocks and Canary 140 wpc monoblock tube amps. Prior to breakin the tube amplifier did not spank them and make them sing like the parasound monoblocks. No, after breakin the Revels sound great with the tube monoblocks in triode mode - about 90 wpc. They play very loud but I agree they are not overly dynamic headbanger speakers. I thought long and hard about the Tekton speakers. Kinda got scared off by their allegedly cheap drivers and one of my audiophile buddies heard them and did not like them. Nevertheless, I am still fascinated by them though have never heard them. The F208 Revel is a fine speaker for sure that is going to be harder to drive with low power amps. |
I think my old Krell FPB 400CX will power the F208's with 400 wpc in to 8 ohms, 800 into 4, 1600 into 2. I have ordered f208's. they are coming this week. Bear in mind one tube watt equals about three to five or more solid state watts. Turns out running the signal through all those extra wires and circuits chokes the life right out of the music. Had a friend with some monster Krell monoblocks couldn't hold a candle to my 60 watt Aronov. Thus Robert Harley's famous quip, "If the first watt isn't any good why would you want 200 more of them?" On the fence between Moab and Double impact se tekton to compare.Search around, those who have heard them feel the Moab is a significant step up, with Encore and Ulf each being a little better still. The big step seems to be going to the full MTM array. This creates what is in effect one incredibly high quality 9" midrange/tweeter capable of covering everything from around 270 Hz to 20kHz. This is the range the ear is most sensitive to and accounts for the number of people saying the midrange is perfect. Once you get the full MTM in the Moab it becomes an exercise in refinement. So not the best but it sure seems to be the sweet spot. The wild card is if you decide to go for full Be. Not just the one tweeter, all of them. Big price bump but that is where you start to get into real giant killer territory. |
one watt of tube power equals 5 of solid state? Well you should have told the VTL MB450 that when it choked out playing Dire straits money for nothing intro while the Krell hit every note distortion free. A tube amp powering 4 12 inch eminence woofers with NEO magnets and 3 inch voice coils will not get the job done. |
Well that turned ugly quick. I have heard the Tektons a few times, and while I don't think they are the ultimate in refinement, they are a respectable speaker at the price point. It appears they do some critical things well, namely a flat frequency response and smooth off axis response. A lot of far more expensive speakers do that very poorly. I am guessing a lot of the negative posts are not based on actual comparative listening but just trolling. |
"...a sony boombox at Best buy will fit your needs." SONY boombox from Best Buy was easily my best buy ever. It served me for five years as a sole source of music. It still works just fine although I hardly ever use it. Never a hiccup, never craved anything better. It brought much more joy than current much more expensive set-up. Please have respect for actual fine equipment. |
Tell me, do these posts sound like those of someone who owns Wilsons? I will leave people to their own conclusions, but have come to the conclusion the OP is just a troll. Stumbled across a pair of these beasts at a used stereo store. I can get them for 3 grand. The loudspeakers are probably 30 years old. Would you goners grab these for 3 grand or get something new for 3 grand. What new would you recommend for 3 grand?
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I have 3 pairs of loudspeakers. Gear changes on a monthly basis. Tektons aren't bad, I own a pair and like them. Wilsons are fine loudspeakers and gupson probably couldn't afford to keep them so he trashes them. Thecarpathian is upset radio shack is no longer in business because that's where he bought his gear. lmao!!! |
I haven't been on Audiogon for a bit, and I've had my Moabs for about ten months, and I have been thinking about what I might say about them, for months. I come from a background of "living in" the local upscale stereo shops for months at a time. In recent years, I find it embarrassing to do that, but I didn't mind spending my free time, in my twenties and thirties, taking up all of the time of the salespeople. They didn't seem to mind much. My previous speaker set was the Vandersteen 2ci's. They were lovely, just beautiful in soundstaging. The notion that Moabs are somehow aggressive is wildly off, or I would do some serious review of room dynamics, amplification, etc. If you are working with any kind of decent recording, you aren't going to face glare, nor aggression in the Moabs, unless the music needs to hit... I would avoid any critical response to the Moabs that leans into name calling. The China critique is misleading, if it's intended to imply that they are cheap in how they sound. I think the aesthetic piece is very personal, and I have been IMPRESSED at the various reactions to Tekton speaker aesthetics. I found them novel and interesting, from the start, and a little hypnotic. I actually find them to make a very interesting "statement" about the role of sound in my life, within my living room. I've never heard anyone complain of the aesthetics of the Vanderesteen's I owned, but they were boring in comparison to the Moabs, in MY view. Sonically, I can sit in amazement over good recordings, just constantly drawn into the subtlety, surprised by the percussive realism, intrigued by the soundstage nuance. The Moabs reveal layers. I love the layering of sound. I've recently been listening to Jack Johnson's "Sleep through the Static" and I can't get enough of the sensitivity that Johnson has crafted, which the Moabs communicate, effortlessly. The Moab issue that brought me back to Audiogon, today, which I arrived at over the last few weeks, is this... that I no longer have the Moabs on order, that I won't be seeing those towering boxes wheeled in from the truck, after waiting longer than I thought I should have had to, that I won't set them up and find myself initially troubled by the bass response, which I would then dial in over the coming weeks, that I won't be "discovering" the treasure that my gamble was testing. Yes, I find it a bit troubling that I have the "answer" to my sound adventures of the past decades, so there is no real reason to look for something better. That "hunting" instinct is alive, in me, but I've nowhere to go (sonically), unless I want to shell out MUCH more, and I know that while there may be new possibilities and discoveries that my happiness is more about actually listening, actually sitting down, actually discovering more about the ocean of sound. The Moabs are not holding back... ...and I'm relishing the results of my risk taking... Best regards to all of you. Enjoy your free-time. Listen strongly. |
