There’s no better value and no one as willing to make bespoke speakers out there than Fritz and these forums treat his speakers as if they cost $200K. They don’t. They are remarkably affordable and yet potential customers put him through the absolute ringer, asking for custom features, going through 2 or 3 models of home auditions and maybe not even buying any of them.
Look, you buy what you want to buy, but I think not enough credit is given to the man or his speakers in terms of the overall value proposition and I think this is a disservice overall. If you write a 5 page review, please keep this very much in mind that you are not reviewing Wilson or Focal's flagships. Maybe he doesn't deserve quite the same scrutiny.
Having spent the last several months in lockdown, and needing something to do, I've spent a lot of time building speakers of varying designs, sizes and feel. One thing I am so very curious about is the crossover design he uses. Makes an easy load for the amp, and apparently doesn't have the phase shift issues associated with a parallel crossover. And the crossover design is an indicator of how he works. Very fussy design. Any component changes will have a cascading effect. Simple, but so very elegant. His cabinets adhere to the same proportions - which makes production for a small manufacturer more efficient. Again, not so easy to do as every incarnation will require its own internal "magic".
As for the other stuff in this thread... "I know you are, but what am I..."
People, don't forget the pledge not to feed the...
+1 goose. Yes if they came from England or Denmark. Or, if Fritz had a huge facility or if he had a staff, with wages and benefits, or if he had a webmaster or a PR person…and on and on. What would that add? He does not have economy of scale but he has creative control and none of those other costs.
The rule of thumb in hi-fi manufacturing is to price a product at ten times the cost of parts. Assuming that is for selling through brick & mortar retailers, for direct sales let’s cut that in half. Even at five x parts, the $3500 Fritz is still UNDER-priced.
If Fritz can do it for that price what does that tell us about all the other speaker companies? It tells us that we are being duped. Wake up and smell the coffee, most hifi speakers are overpriced and you know it!
The rule of thumb in hi-fi manufacturing is to price a product at ten times the cost of parts. Assuming that is for selling through brick & mortar retailers, for direct sales let’s cut that in half. Even at five x parts, the $3500 Fritz is still UNDER-priced.
kenjit, as the hillbilly putting gas into Burt Reynolds’ Jeep in Deliverance said to Ned Beatty, you don’t know nuthin’.
People want value for their money not necessarily the cheapest expenditure. I would ask how much these speakers would cost if they were imported from Europe and sold in a retail establishment? Every touch point causes the price to go up.
EVERY speaker has dirty secrets that the audio industry does not want you to know!! Every speaker I have bought even from B&W had weaknesses. The fact of the matter is, threads like this shamelessly promote all of a speakers strengths and deliberately suppress their weaknesses.
If this post gets deleted, I will no longer be participating in a forum that promotes and condones suppression of DIRTY SECRETS within the industry.
Omg guys, so my system has been blowing my mind. I got a Belles Aria and have been in heaven. Schiit Gungir Multibit, treated room, ap solo crystal oval 8’s and my setup is ridiculous. So my buddy comes over today and we ran Sonarworks and corrected the Freq response and bam!! Next level stuff here. I can not believe where my system is now and I really can’t believe what is sounds like running sonarworks even more. My in room response was decent. A little lumpy but with 6 db the whole range. Corrected, it was flat and I couldn’t believe it. I’m getting Sonarworks and I’m done. I thought I needed more subs but I don’t at all. Truly amazing afternoon!
And these Carreras are friggin’ awesome. Best ever. Somone mentione ghat they were expensive comparatively...
Can someone show me a ScanSpeak 7” revelator paired with the more expensive neodymium SB BE tweeter for less than $3250 shipped to your door brand new in your choice of veneer?
Boutiques speakers like Fritz and Salk offer exceptional value. Far more than the big box brands at the same price.
I’m more about Fritz, Salk, Spendor, Harbeth, Joseph Audio, etc. Tekton is aweome as well but big and the aestheics aren’t for everyone. Tekton is doing some cool stuff with his designs though. Both Salk And Tekton use the SB BE tweeters too.
There are a few youtube sound demo's of Fritz's speakers and they all sound really good. Amazing actually for a speaker that size. I have been thinking about a new set of speakers in that price range but I can get a brand new pair of Vandersteen 2CE III for less than the small stand mount Fritz. Still, as I get older the thought of a small stand mount speaker with a full range sound does sound awfully appealing. May need to arrange a demo of these Fritz speakers.
I used to run a two-man custom speaker shop. It’s a hard business. I seemed to have found more than a few customers who thought they knew everything, but they had no clue on what it takes to make a decent speaker. Often the customization of the speakers people wanted would destroy their performance. My favorite was being told - I love these full-range floor standers. Put the same 4 drivers in a cabinet 1/4 that size so I can have them as bookshelf speakers on my desk. And he was seriously upset when I said I couldn’t make that work. That must have been Kenjit! And of course people expect you to build them their dream speakers and lose money on them. Maybe that was Kenji too? Now I just build or modify speakers for myself and a few friends. After reading these posts about Fritz I will send customers his way. I’ll try to make sure they are not the crazy ones!
I don’t think that being an irrational and noisy contributor to a forum should make anyone the subject of life altering experiments especially when they cannot give informed consent. Our history as a country and world has had enough of that.
Gee, I felt clever coming up with my "on the fritz" line .. and now I see that someone had already beat me to it. I have to subject myself to reading these entire nonsense threads only to submit one half-witted joke attempt?? Now I know how the tortured artist feels.
I should maybe note that one thing that worked for Fritz during that show which might have made it a standout.
He brought his own room acoustics instead of relying on ASC and his own electronics. For some reason the gear provided by ASC seemed to suck out the mid bass, and every single room besides fritz had this "one note bass" phenomenon, where no matter what was playing, or what room I was in the bass sounded exactly the same. Really never heard anything like that. I stepped into Fritz's room and that all went away.
I've heard Fritz at another show since then and it was still very good, but other rooms didn't sound quite so bad now. :)
If those speakers had a Wilson badge they would be 5x as expensive and to my ears comparable sound quality (and better than older Wilsons) given the size restrictions.
So are you saying the wilsons are a complete scam? That appears to be exactly what you are saying Erik Tufnel.
I have heard Fritz speakers on several occasions at audio shows. They have sounded excellent every time. In my opinion they are outstanding both within their price range and within their size ballpark.
I have not owned Fritz speakers, nor do I have financial interest in his business. I first heard them in Oakland at a show, and they were amazing. Easily the best sound of the show. I was absolutely amazed at the components he was using and how inexpensively he was selling them for.
I remember at that show Blue Coast Records (DSD downloads!) was there and I got to meet a couple of their ladies, I cant’ remember if both were musicians, or one was a musician and the other a recording engineer. Both independently also mentioned they thought his room was fantastic. Another really amazing thing to me was that he did a lot of custom work. Sending speakers to listeners, and modifying them to taste.
Here’s the thing: If those speakers had a Wilson badge they would be 5x as expensive and to my ears comparable sound quality (and better than older Wilsons) given the size restrictions. Here is a man producing $15,000 speakers for a song, with customized finished and even sound profiles.
It’s like lusting after an Armani rack suit you can’t afford and finding a tailor who can make you a tailored pair with better with equal or better fabrics for half.
The Be tweeter in the Carrera is the best handling of any Be tweeter that I've ever heard, and I've heard several, some less than great and some OK. All Fritz speakers also go remarkably low for the price. They are also tube friendly. The demo at the 2018 CAF with a Modwright 300B headphone amp was superlative. Above all, they sound really great, unlike certain "bargain" brands.
The tweeter used in the Carrera is a high end, SB acoustics Beryllium tweeter. A single one is close to $400. That 7” paper driver is a Scan Speak Revelator and the are around $250
Total cost of drivers is $1300. Cost of speakers is $3500. So how much is he actually making? Can anybody answer that without insulting me?
I purchased a pair of the Carerra Be's from Fritz this spring. He called me after I sent him an email via his website. Spoke for at least an hour, with another follow-up of about 1/2 an hour. He was extremely helpful. I emailed him pictures of my audio cabinet and he found a finish for the speaker that complimented it perfectly. You could tell that he has a real passion for his work and pride in his product. I read several reviews before I contacted him and as I was contemplating the purchase. All of the reviews I could find were positive. I don't remember any that made me think "poor Fritz".
It was my impression that his return policy is motivated out of a desire to have a satisfied customer and not a marketing gimmick. He wants to make sure that the speakers match your gear, room and listening preferences.
I am extremely pleased with my purchase. The speakers are everything I hoped for. I don't have any experience with ultra-high-end speakers, but I feel as if Fritz's speakers give more than fair value for the money.
From responses so far, I gathered that Fritz speakers are boutique products, somewhat more expensive than what competition would be. They use good parts and perform well within their physical limitations. Reviews are good, shopping experience seems to be unusually flexible, and you get a little exclusivity in your ownership. Add the fact that the man has a reputation of being a nice person and is doing the work himself. Those few extra things may be just enough for some to pay a few (hundred) extra dollars. Win-win.
Regarding the comment about the price mentioned, he will do them for $3250, shipping included. And return shipping if you don't like them. The Tektons mentioned are a much different speaker, so to each their own. But consider that Tekton will charge you for shipping one way, so if you try them and return them, you're out on shipping, but not on Fritz.
The other thing to mention is, as @jond says, there are lots of factors to consider. The expertise and "ear" of the maker is one; the other is that sometimes supporting good merchants just requires that price not always be the bottom line. I buy books in my local independent bookstore despite what they cost on Amazon because, well, spending my money that way gives me a whole other kind of value. I pay a bit more for coffee at my local roastery/café, too. Anyone who is shopping for speakers in the thousands can afford to not insist that price is the ultimate deal-maker/deal-breaker.
@erik_squires ..They are remarkably affordable and yet potential customers put him through the absolute ringer...
OP: There are reviews on the Fritz website and he charges something like $3295 for a small BE 2-way speaker, not inexpensive by any means. Seems like a fair price if you like how they sound. No guarantee.
The speakers seem to hold their own, he sends them out for people to try and evaluate them, and hopefully they purchase them... sounds like a great formula and it works. Word is he sells a lot of them, that's great!
Do you own a pair of Fritz speakers and how do you like them?
Although I thought it was rather humorous in the beginning...now I just find it sad. Yes, I'm referring to that "K" guy, his posts, the reply to his posts and the declarations of "I won't read that drivel anymore!".
Well I'll see ya and raise ya one: Not only won't I look at the "K" posts anymore, I won't read ANY post that mentions "K".
Actually if you think about it say the drivers do cost $300, add in cabinet costs, just spitballing, $400, labor, overhead, etc you get to $2200 pretty quickly. A guy like Fritz doesn't have the economies of scale of a larger producer so those parts costs are likely even higher. If you want to look at the cost of something look at the total cost don't just look at one thing.
@bob540, good questions! The tweeter used in the Carrera is a high end, SB acoustics Beryllium tweeter. A single one is close to $400. That 7” paper driver is a Scan Speak Revelator and the are around $250. These are high end drivers and you will see them in other high end speakers that cost quite a bit more ($5,000+).
you are correct in assuming that bigger speakers with more drivers will be more impactful, they’ll have more dynamic punch so to speak.
The Carreras in a small to medium room though are plenty big enough. I like loud music and dynamics as well, and the Carreras with a sub, in my small room, are awesome. Tekton is making some cool speakers but most would be physically overbearing in my room.
Im also of the belief to buy the best, then bigger if you have the wallet!
I had not heard of Fritz or his speakers until I read b_limo’s thread the other day. Curious, I did slight research — he seems like a great guy, but then I checked the price for his Fritz Carrera 7-something (costs new $3500 for the pair). They have a 7” driver paired with a small beryllium tweeter (if faulty memory serves me). I thought, “How can a bookshelf-sized speaker create the quality or volume of sound that much larger speakers do?”
There are many speakers in a similar price range, like the floor-stander Tekton Double Impact, with gobs of drivers of various sizes, so wouldn’t they blow away a small, albeit very good-sounding, speaker like the Fritz? Obviously, hearing is believing, but I’m not in the market for speakers and I understand that Fritz sells direct and thus they would not be at a dealer.
It would seem to me that in some cases, size does matter.
kenjit You ask who are the real trolls. All members are agreed I believe: you and millercarbon. All your posts are the same and many are irrelevant. I'm going to stop reading them. If we all do that, there will be no point in your writing them.
Enough of the Kenjit hate. Who really cares what he says. If someone buys based on his diatribe, then so be it. It is what it is. We are all adults here. Let your wallet do the talking.
Can we move questions about whether some people can make logical arguments, accept new information, accept their mistakes, and learn to another topic? I think there are about 30 versions of "Kenjit how can you make such a terrible argument" thread already, pick any one.....
I honestly don’t know how the moderators here justify not banning him as he contributes nothing and just pollutes the site. So I it goes...
There is no rule that says you will get banned for not contributing anything that 100% of forum users will agree with.
The fact of the matter is I am the greatest asset not only on here but in the audiophile world. If I disappear from here that is a massive loss that you wouldn't even realize.
I have been to all the hifi exhibitions, visited many hifi dealers, watch all the youtube speaker reviews and heard dozens of speakers in real life. I have gone through the nightmare of being unable to find perfect sound. I am now seeking a solution. Whereas the rest of you lot are still stuck on the 'peaker merry go round buying and selling one speaker after another. I was there many years ago. I am now several levels beyond that. That is what makes me superior. The rest of you lot are happy listening to the likes of Kef reference ones and kef blades that havent even been custom tuned to your ears. But I demand better than that. So what does that tell you about how high my standards are compared to you lot? I hear problems that most of you lot cant hear even if it hit you in the face. By jove i have heard speakers that were wired out of phase by the hifi salesperson who couldnt hear it until i pointed it out. I am perfect.
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