Package sent to wrong address

@thecarpathian Yes we are definitely keeping in touch with each other. Like I said we are not blaming one another.This is just a very odd and misfortune situation 

Hope it all works out.

It's a shame buyer #1 is a no integrity thief.

This could have been cleared up easily.

This is a strange situation indeed it sounds like perhaps a glitch in the Audiogon system?

And embarrassingly I will admit a few years ago I was selling two different cables and shipped both packages on the same day and switched the buyers! Luckily they were both very nice guys and I paid to have them ship their packages to one another. First and last time I make a mistake like that one!  🤣

@tattooedtrackman .... I have also had dealings with the op and do not question his integrity in any way. I believe that regardless of any agon agreement that they should at the very least be involved as much as possible to help get this resolved.  

Shipping should always be verified before shipping ,I have been doing this for years after owning a store ,signature required anything  over a grand .

how did AG mess this up ? I don’t think AG will offer any $$ .

how was it paid for ? I am sure the customer will file for a refund and PPal will just reverse the charge from your account.

Well one thing is for sure

it ain’t the buyers fault 

@thecarpathian   I totally agree. Buyer 1 is a clear thief. It could have easily been cleared up if he said he had got another one a week later. 

@audioman58   It’s been said a few times how it was paid for if u read the whole thing. 
@joey_v   Nope it ain’t buyers fault or mine. This totally falls on AG. They are the ones who had a glitch with shipping info in their system. I have been a member on here since 2016 and have bought and sold Amps , preamps CDP. Speaker cables , ICs. Racks , and the liist goes on. I’ve never ever had a problem with a wrong address. Either buying or selling. 

This is a very unfortunate situation. However, luckily, we aren’t talking thousands of dollars. 
 There’s a couple things that bother me. One is, the assumption that the guy you talked to is lying, a thief- because he’s nervous and Chinese. It’s reasonable he’d be a suspect because you sent it to his address, but, you cannot prove that he received it because he didn’t sign for it. You didn’t send it signature required. From what you said in your post , you have no proof if he actually received the package. An accusation , assumption, is not proof. 
 Secondly, it may not be your fault, but, it is definitely not the second buyers fault. The right thing to do is to immediately (if you are convinced that the buyer never received the item) refund his money. You have his money and he didn’t get what you sold him. 
 You’re the one who has to fight with Audiogon, PayPal, the shipper, the person you assume might have the item, etc. 

 Best thing to do is to refund the money to the guy who sent you his money. He never received the item you sold to him. 
 If you were the buyer in this situation, my guess is you would agree. 

For your information the first buyers username name is Chauluong. The one who said he never got the second shipment from me. That’s the guy u should be aware of. If he was honest he would have acknowledged he received another one either to me or AG and shipped it back. With my paying shipping of course. 

@tattooedtrackman I feel for you man. Is Audiogon talking to you about this? Any idea how it happened?

@bubba12 AG has been working with the buyer and me from the very beginning. We email and text constantly keep each other posted. AG has been great as I expected. We hopefully should know more Monday.

Ok I understand now , speak withTammy she is the most well versed 
on Audiogon .

@oregon   First of all. I do not agree with you about if this was me , the buyer. The seller which is me did send it to the right address that was shown on AG and PP. His name was at the top of the shipping address. Second u say to verify shipping address? Well then that goes both ways also. The seller also should have verified his shipping address. I honestly feel that is was neither of our fault. Or both of our fault to both of us to not verify shipping addresses. 

This isn't a glitch. It's a scam, think about it.

If the shipping address was on both PayPal and Audiogon, it’s a scam.  Second buyer is most likely not being truthful.

Your response is confusing. But, my point is- the seller, you, should refund the buyer's money.

 Obviously, you feel differently.

1) Paypal Goods & Services requires that the shipment be sent to the address provided on the buyer’s Paypal account to be eligible for Seller protection.

2) Paypal Goods & Services requires that shipping any item over $750 must include Signature Confirmation to be eligible for seller protection. Without Signature Confirmation, expect the seller to lose the claim.

3) Paypal Goods & Services will refund the buyer if Signature Confirmation was not included in the shipping.

4) Using Paypal Friends & Family has no protection at all. That’s why I always include Signature Confirmation on all F&F shipments - even those with a very low value - as low as $25.

5) Paypal Seller Protection - everybody should read - link here.

_ _ _ _

Re: integrity. Years ago, my expensive preamp was stolen. It was sold on Audiogon at a dirt cheap price. The identical serial # was visible in the photos. I contacted the buyer and explained the situation. I offered to buy it back for what he paid - plus shipping. No loss for him. He refused. I was confounded by his obstinance. Fortunately, another Audiogon member suggested ’to let it go’ - before the stress did even more damage.

Re: Signature Confirmation for items over $750. Once, I purchased an item on Audiogon for $800. Shipped USPS priority mail. According to the USPS geotracking of the mail carrier’s truck, the local postmaster confirmed that the item was dropped off at my address at the stated time. Yet, the package was missing. It probably was stolen off my porch. Both the seller & I had 100% positive feedback for years of transactions. I filed a claim with Paypal. Since the seller did not include Signature Confirmation as required for over $750, he instantly lost the claim. Paypal gave me a refund immediately.

Live & learn. Some lessons are more annoying than others.

@tattooedtrackman  Just so you don't feel alone I have never doubted the address that comes up as a buyer's address when I sell an item. I send them the item. I have never thought to confirm again.

Seller should have paid the shipper $$ for SIGNATURE REQUIED. This would prevent the chinese guy from claiming he never received the second unit.

Everything else is now mea culpa.

It's a scam!

Just was informed from AG that Chau Luong account has been suspended. AG is also going to call him about this. Ty AG. If he will admit he has it a sends it back to me all is good and I will not hold any grudges. He should do the right thing about this.

By the way, I will add that just recently, I bought an item from the bay, and the USPS accepted shipment from the seller, then refused to deliver it to me because the seller had neglected to put my name on the package address.

I requested a refund and the seller refused, claiming somehow it was my fault.  Ridiculous statement because I received dozens of paypal and ebay shipments this past year, all with my name on the address and never a problem.

PAYPAL refunded me in a few days after I made the claim.  I have no idea what happened with the idiot/scammer seller.

@fertguy please tell me how u figured it’s a scam. Please explain. If u have no idea don’t even start that shit. 

Long descriptions bur key points are missing, Reading further comments somewhat clears.

1. Audiogon and paypal are involved.

2. Delivery Address taken from Paypal?

3. 'Measure twice before cut' not used.

3. Delivery address is apartment or forwarder not sure.

4. Second delivery has been taken and has done felony. Seek police help. @grislybutter

5. First and second buyer are same and tricking the system?

6. seller from where he got delivery address is responsible, Rise the issue with Paypal/Audiogon.

7. It is not 'ship another package'? @carlsbad2

8. Issue should be resolved with PP and AG.

9. How second buyer lives in NJ and has delivery address of Washington(that too same as 1st buyer) and claim not received. seek police help.

10. what seller has proof of delivery by Courier company. Does leave at door is authored by the buyer?

@tattooedtrackman 

If he has denied that he has it up to this point, why would he now admit it? That seems very unlikely. Being sispended by Audiogon seems a small price for a thief to pay in exchange for a Krell equalizer.

Smells scammy to me as well

@fertguy   once again all u say is — Sounds like 2 guys working a deal. But u are still not expecting. Look ,!it may be u are right. I really don’t think so. But u still need to explain how u think it’s a scam between the 2 of them. 

@knock1   u too. Please explain this scam to me. 
@roxy54  I agree with you. Being suspended is a small price to pay for stealing a Krell equalizer. If I could file theft charges I will. 

"@fertguy   once again all u say is — Sounds like 2 guys working a deal. But u are still not expecting. Look ,!it may be u are right. I really don’t think so. But u still need to explain how u think it’s a scam between the 2 of them."

Two guys with the same address & you didn't think this was a little "funny".

Or, one guy with two addresses. Just waiting for PT Barnums guy to come along..

@fertguy   But what is the point. I got paid from both of them. No I didn’t think it was funny. I thought of it when I saw it after the fact that it was very odd. More like a glitch in the system. Also u are talking about some one being Chinese and someone being a white guy. To me it woulda looked more strange if they were both Chinese guys or even from the same state maybe. But u are talking NJ and Washington state. Just about cross county. Cmon. 

The guy claims not to receive two packages while tracking shows otherwise. Obviously we can not be sure 100%, but the "smell" is overwhelming, to say the least.

@tattooedtrackman " But what is the point. I got paid from both of them." but one of them will have his money refunded and keep the merchandise.

Can you confirm with PayPal (independent of Audiogon and this transaction) that both names do indeed link to different addresses?

@tattooedtrackman  what a strange and frustrating situation.Hopefully it will be resolved by next week.

fertguy has a reading comprehension problem. All was perfectly explained in the thread.

@steakster -- I know this is an aside from the OP, but I'm confused and interested.  You said:

Re: integrity. Years ago, my expensive preamp was stolen. It was sold on Audiogon at a dirt cheap price. The identical serial # was visible in the photos. I contacted the buyer and explained the situation. I offered to buy it back for what he paid - plus shipping. No loss for him. He refused. I was confounded by his obstinance. Fortunately, another Audiogon member suggested ’to let it go’ - before the stress did even more damage.

If it was your stolen Preamp being sold, and the Serial Numbers even matched, why was this even an issue?  You contact Law Enforcement who can identify the seller from a warrant issued to Audiogon which gives them the person's name and address.  If the stolen Preamp crossed state lines it is even further up the chain of illegality.  Why were you dealing with the person that bought the stolen Preamp and offering to buy it back from them?  Did you file a police report when it was stolen?  Did you have pictures of your gear and the Serial Numbers to prove ownership?  I'm trying to figure out if I missed something when reading your post -- I was skimming through the thread.

Thanks, and I'm sorry you had to go through that.  I have every piece of audio gear that I've ever owned since 1977 except for two items that were stolen during a home robbery in 1990, and to this day I wish I had 5 minutes alone with the hoodrats they caught.  My gear was never recovered -- a Dual 1219 turntable and a Kenwood KA-9100 Integrated Amp.  Neither piece is of great dollar value but they held big sentimental value to me because they were part of my first "big boy" stereo system.  I despise thieves.

Have you contacted PayPal yet to find out who exactly is able to add the shipping address to PayPal? I didn't think a third party such as Audiogon can do that, can they?

Hope this works out. Seller sends to buyer number two's PayPal address of record as required by PayPal. That address being the same as buyer number one.... that is so bizarre. I would wait until PayPal and AG provide input and finish looking into the situation before proceeding with any actions. 

Assuming the buyer didn’t enter the wrong address, which seems a good assumption, pretty clear he’s entitled to a refund from seller. Ultimately, this seems to be AG’s fault, but in all fairness, and I also think in law, that should be worked out between seller and AG, 

as the facts are explained, buyer had a right to delivery of the goods, and is the only party of the three involved that could have done nothing to make sure this didn’t happen. Not saying the seller is ultimately the one who should bear the loss, but between seller and buyer the buyer is entitled to a refund leaving seller with a claim against AG   at least that’s what my 40 years of practicing law tells me

This gets more and more confusing as I read it. So the latest response from the OP is now that somehow the second buyers PAYPAL verified address posted on the second buyers paypal account is actually the Washington address of the first buyer ? ? ? ? 

Not possible imo. I was starting to think it was possible that Agon somehow had the mistakenly given buyer number two buyer number one's address- but its just not possible nor plausible that Paypal has an incorrect address listed and verified for buyer number two that out of 200 mm accounts just happens to be buyer number one's. Sorry. So the most likely scenario os that somehow when the OP printed the shipping label for buyer number two he accidentally reprinted the shipping label for buyer number one. Some variation on this is most likely what really happened imo. 

@speedthrills I wish it was that simple. First of all I don’t have a printer to print out shipping labels.I write them out and double and triple check to make sure I wrote it correctly. Second. It was the same exact address from the first seller with the second sellers name. 3rd. I took pics of both invoices from AG and PayPal and emailed and texted to AG and the second buyer. Also as I had mentioned the second buyer also saw on his shipping info that he had  the same Washington address as the first buyer. Apparently u don’t  read throughly. 

Well, I'm stumped. It makes no sense at all. I was starting to believe Agon could have buyer number one's address embedded onto buyer number 2's info- but not Paypal. So you've contacted Paypal, opened a case with them, sent them screen shots to prove that they've incorrectly put buyer number one's shipping info as the verified address of buyer number two- and explained that you somehow found these two totally unrelated buyers and sold them the same piece of equipment and shipped it out twice to buyer number one? Didn't you see that the second address was the same as the first btw when you were handwriting the shipping labels? None of this makes any sense at all, none. Something's missing in the connecting of the dots. Best of luck with it all. 

@speedthrills Once again u don’t read throughout. I also was sending out a few things that I sold on eBay. So no I do not remember the first buyers address. That was over a week ago when the second Krell sold. I don’t go around remembering peoples addresses. 

Don't you just love answering the same questions over and over from the guys who feel the need to respond but not the need to read the thread?

I have only purchased 2 things off of Audiogon in recent months, both times the seller asked me to verify my shipping address.  Sounds like a pretty good practice to me.

I’ll be the lone voice to support the seller. Just as many say you should verify shipping address, as buyer I ALWAYS independently provide seller with my shipping address. Everyone should do that. 
 

Because this looks like a scam, he is correct in allowing AG/PP to research and advise. Even though the seller has been paid, a scammer knows he has perfect rating and will reimburse one buyer eventually. Or AG or PP will.

I suggest the seller stay the course. Something is fishy here and I suspect the scammer wins only once he receives the returned payment.

What a mess. I ordered an item that ended up in Guam, but it did eventually find its way to me, in Minnesota, via Hawaii. There are a lot of things to complain about when it comes to Pay Pal, but that fee is cheap insurance against just such an occurrence (temptation).  I doubt a conspiracy to defraud, maybe more of a "Pennies From Heaven" situation.  Culturally, this country is heading for a dumpster fire. Even just four years ago, the inclination of a person receiving a "free" item would be different than it is today. Four years ago could you have imagined someone filling the shopping cart to the brim with valuable merchandise and walking out of the front door of a store without paying?

People have been doing that and worse a lot longer than 4 years...