Opportunity to buy Demo Magico M2?

Did you like the overall sound of the A5? What would you be coming from? 
 

I would think you get much better of everything for the 50k over the A5 Msrp. 

To be honest, I really wasn’t blown away by the A5’s. I had lugged my Diablo in and thought it would be great, but nope. Again they only had 250 hours on them. And they were in a very small listening room, with the A5’s way out from the wall (Stereophile and others note they do well closer to the wall). I found the tone to be slightly nasal with some male voices (possibly due to being tonally unbalanced due to the lack of bass), and again there was no bass energy. Also tested the Audiovector Arette R6’s and they had massive bass energy (but they were not for me for other reasons). The A5 bass just seemed blended into the background and muted in comparison, and the speakers had little rhythm and drive as a result.

I really wanted to like these and actually am still interested, in case it’s just a case of not being broken in.

I have a pair of B&W 803 D2’s that tonally sound just perfect in my large-ish listening “area”. Really love the sound of them, but I know I could get far better imaging/soundstage, better dynamics, and slightly better upper mid transparency based on listening to high end speakers. Just need to find some that have the right tonal presentation I’m looking for, as my current speakers simply have that “rightness” factor to the sound. I listened to the new 801 D4’s and they sounded horrid with my amp - pinched and constrained mids and uppers, were hard to listen to. But that might have been due to the dealer’s small and way, way over-treated room sucking up all the mid and higher frequencies.

Speaker shopping is hard work, and stressful as there are so many variables even though I’m taking my amp and all my cabling in…. So I’m not sure if I should bother with the M2’s or not.  But the discount is so large I feel like I should make the effort?

I very much doubt that break in is an issue, particularly at 250 hours.  It is much more likely a set up issue at the dealership, including a difference in personal preference between you and the dealer.  Of course it could be you don’t like the speaker.  It might be asking a lot to have the dealer do a set up with your amp.  Done correctly, it is more than just a matter of dropping in your amp; this involves re-tuning the setup.  I would audition the M2 as it is set up at the dealership.  If it sounds to your liking, you at least know it is capable of sounding good; if not, you could explain what you don’t like and the dealer might be able to make some speaker placement adjustment.  I would do at least a portion of the audition fairly close to the speaker (near field listening) to minimize the contribution of the room in order to get a better sense of the speaker’s qualities.  If you are in doubt after the audition, walk away.  If you don’t like the sound, no matter the price cut, it will never be a bargain.

@nyev 

I’m not sure if I should bother with the M2’s or not

IMO, given your excellent amp and, say, a 50% discount, you should and I know it;s not easy carrying the Diablo around!

I don't like Magico as a brand. I had heard the speakers don't come with grills and if they are serviced, Magico will not ship them back to the customer. After one pays $75k for speakers... and the company can't foot the bill to ship repaired speakers back!?!? Wow.

Demo pair is effectively used speakers. 25k off a 75k speaker is not really a screaming deal. In other worlds not sure you could re sell them and make a cent let alone break even. Maybe you could. Point is don’t feel pressured you are going to miss out on this screaming deal especially if you are not completely enamored with the speakers and at 50+k I feel you need to be. 

I was not amazed with the Magicos with excellent electronics at Overture.

I found used Revel Salon 2's. easy, smooth, full and great bass.  They would sing with your Gryphon amp.  Now I have also the Hailey 2.2's from YG and they are amazing.  You will see the Salon 2's occasionally for around 12k used and they hold all their value.  Bill at GTT is the YG man.

Magicos are extremely well built and will hold more value than other speakers. If you were to not like them you might get $30,000 on a re sale. If loosing $20,000 is not a problem for you then go for it. If it is than do not unless you can evaluate the speakers appropriately before you by them. Over time they will appreciate. Also, speakers are about to take a big jump in price like everything else so, the same quality speaker is going to cost at least 10% more in the near future.

I buy demo items all the time as long as they come with a completer warranty and they are in perfect shape. 

Why not simply request a home audition? Tell the dealer that you will purchase the speakers if you are happy with them, and return them if not.

For that kind of money, if the dealer were to refuse such a request, I'd walk away, and briskly.

im not an expert, but in my experience, I think 250 hours should eliminate much of the break-in concerns. Sounds like you really weren't impressed. For that amount of money you should be VERY impressed. 

Great speaker at a great price don't listen to the anti MAGICO dudes.

Magico speakers if not match correctly, they sound so sterile and uninvolving, I hear the magico Speakers at Axpona this year I am blown away, synergistic cables and expensive gear were being used, EBM yes they are amazing speakers, work around them and you have good music performance on them.

Thanks all. I read a pro review of the M2’s and the reviewer had what sounded like a very, very similar room to what I have - larger, open concept with the room extending out, with an open staircase. While the reviewer LOVED the speakers, he said that his 16’ x 30’ room was not ideal for these speakers and said if you have such a room, they are not ideal. They have less cabinet size and bass driver surface area vs the A5’s, so I think that alone rules them out. And, the reviewer struggled to get them to sound good, with setup. The A5’s are known to be dead easy to set up.

I also read in another article how different a sealed enclosure design sounds from a ported design. They present the philosophy that ported designs only give the illusion of more “oomph” in the bass around 60Hz, while sacrificing a lot of other things. They claimed people often first ask where the bass is with the sealed design even though the actual bass extension is very, very low. But, after spending time with it, it’s hard to ever go back to a ported design once you start hearing all the benefits.

This dealer I had auditioned the A5’s at sold them, amd won’t have any for months. Another dealer has them and I think I will give them another chance. The store said they have well over 500 hours on them. Hopefully it’s in a bigger, more open room as I think that is also more to my tastes.

@larryi , It’s not easy for me to simply go listen with existing electronics first - these dealers are not local to me. Requires half day of travel, and a hotel to not be rushed. Also listening with other electronics first, which I considered, I’d be afraid of ruling them out but not knowing if it was the speakers or electronics fault. Truth is, I actually really don’t love the sound of most speakers and amps, so finding gear I like is hard. Took me forever before I found an amp I liked; many home demos and there was not a single other amplifier I tested in my price range that I would have been happy living with.

Regarding A5 breakin: I’ve seen more than a few posts, I think on audio aficionado, where they say it was like a light switch turning on after 500 hours. One said he was considering parting with them. But after the bass showed up he had zero complaints and loved them. Several A5 owners were advising a guy to hang on to them as he was 250 hours in and wasn’t hearing the bass. Because of this, I’m hoping that my next audition of these speakers will go better…

@fastfreight thanks for reminding me of the Revel Salon 2’s.  This model has been around for a LONG time, but whatever. There is actually a dealer who has these, and they also sell Wilson. Less interested in Wilson as even with my large room, due to the layout I can only have about 30” from the rear of the speaker to the wall - not sure if this is enough.

So this weekend I think I will be travelling with my amp to test the A5’s, the Salon 2’s, and the Wilson’s (Sasha DAW and Yvette).

If I have no luck, I think I’ve tested all the options available in my area and price range: B&W, Sonus Faber, Magico, Audiovector, Wilson, Revel. The only other option is the Monitor Audio PL500 but another Goner who owns these told me he thinks they need 4.5 ft behind them!

I would test them in my room before final buying. This is the final test - your room and your system. Can be surprising. I would give them room to breathe, good distance from walls, adjust toe-in, and go from there.

@fastfreight I chose the A5 over the Hailey 2.2, after a long prosses of auditions (I like YG, had the Carmel 2 before). The A5 are a better speaker, much more complete and organic sounding, for almost half the price, IMO of course.

@nyev Not sure what it is you are trying to accomplish with your posts. As you can see, there are as many opinions as participants. You will be the only one who can decide, and I think you already did. You should just move on, Magico is not for for everyone, there are plenty of other options out there.

Seems like a lot of stress even with the discount, the only way to be sure is to demo them in your own space...

OP,

You said a couple of important things. One you love the sound of the speakers you have and you were not moved by the Magico. Whether bass increases over 500 hours or not you really want to love the sound. You want an emotional connection… didn’t sound like you got it..

I have heard a number of Magico. They are amazing speakers. But, they are so fast that they really highlight any slight hardness or analytical nature in upstream electronics. My personal guess is they would require a top notch all tube system to appeal to me.

What about top of the line B&W? Sonus Faber. I would listen to those.

When auditioning try to just experience the music… it should grab your heart. If not, it may be a technically great speaker but doesn’t capture music like your subconscious wants to experience it.

Larryi +1

Poke33 it can really get stressful, it can be fun as well, anytime you want big changes on the system, it require money, research, tweaking , or even changing amps, cables as well and listening too .it’s a lot of work.

@ghdprentice , good advice, thank you. I’ve been in this hobby for decades and only recently realized that sensing musical engagement is the way to test speakers, rather then endless A/B comparisons!

@henry201 , with my posts I aim to share in my experiences and listen to the experiences of others. I’ve received a lot of good advice over the years. Not the sort of advice as in “you should buy this speaker!”. But, more along the lines of “The Monitor Audio PL500’s require 4.5’ behind them to sound their best”. That info is tremendously helpful as it saves me and the dealer lots of time and effort, as it sounds like these speakers won’t work for me. In the case of the M2’s, because of the general feedback hear and also that review I read online cautioning against using them in larger rooms, I’m going to pass on auditioning them. There are many, many opinions, but also excellent advice. Another example - I am having dedicated lines installed soon and my electrician would have installed cable without dedicated green isolates ground cables, if not for advice I received on these boards. Their are obviously tons of subjective opinions and that is also good to listen to for education. In fact, in rare instances, there is consensus of subjective opinions too. This is how I was turned on to the Gryphon Diablo 300. There are probably ten people who love this amp to every one person who doesn’t, and that made me think I needed to check it out. Very glad I did! So that’s the sort of thing I hope to accomplish with my posts!

Also, regarding at-home demos, I’m not aware of any dealers in my area that would allow at home demos of speakers of this size.  

Ah

Same as me.

I did not like the a5 but I enjoyed the m2.  Side by side comparison.

I would hope a 75k speaker would sound really really freaking good! Lots of options at that price range and this is just one. I’m sure it sounds fantastic! 

As this level of price, no matter the discount, you should be knocked out by the improvement. If not, don't let the 'savings' influence you.  

You likely would never get a dealer to agree to an in-home audition, but you may be able to negotiate ahead of purchase the terms for any return if you are not happy.  Obviously, the terms would have to make it worthwhile for the dealer to go through the trouble and to take the risk of damage and to incentivize you to NOT return the speaker, but that would afford you some protection.

I know a dealer who took back a pair of speakers he custom designed and built for the customer that are gigantic- something like 4.5’ x 9’ x 5’ - that required the rental of a small tractor to make the delivery.  I have no idea what was the price for the return.

@nyev 

It sounds like your budget is right around the Rockport Avior ii. I highly recommend auditioning these as well. Good luck!

Ron 

I strongly agree with @ronboco on the Rockport Avior II.  I am currently using a Diablo 300 on older Rockport Mira II.  I love this combination and it is my understanding that Rockport uses Gryphon amps at the factory.  

+1 on the Rockports, but finding a place to audition them could be problematic.

Rockport is great as well.

If you're looking at Magico and Rockport, you should listen to Vimberg as well.

As long as people are throwing names in the hat. Vandersteen Quatro CT would be on my short list. Very fine speakers....

Have the A5 driven by ARC Reference preamp and Pass class A mono's.  Had multiple sets of Wilson's prior.

The A5 is a very good speaker for the money (still expensive).  In my room, careful positioning leads to amazingly large stage and ample but tuneful bass.  If anything, they can have too much bass, not too little.  Detail and dynamics are top notch.  Super clean and low distortion sound, natural tonal balance.

It's all about how the speaker interacts with the room and associated equipment, along with proper placement.

M2 is a smaller speaker, and too expensive for my taste so not even an option.  A5 costs half of a discounted M2.

I view the A5 as a poor man's M6.  Bet the A5 is blowing the doors off sales wise most of Magico's mid ranged products.  For me it's either the A5, M6 or nothing else in the Magico line up.  

Just IMO, naturally.

@ronboco and others I could use my travel rewards points to fly to Boston to listen to Rockport Avior II with a Diablo 300, at Goodwin’s.  

My issue is whether my 30” max from the front wall to the rear of the speaker would be enough.  My understanding is that the Avior II require far more than 30” from the front wall to the rear of the speakers.

Those if you with the Avior II - is this correct?  Or would 30” do it?  My room is on the larger side for sure with a vaulted higher ceiling and there are no side walls anywhere near my speakers.

@bobbydd you are really making me want to re-test the A5’s at that other dealer. Will do that next weekend, after I test the Wilson Sasha DAW on Saturday (that dealer doesn’t have the Salon 2 on hand so that option is out). Again, I need to travel, it’s a lot of work with my amp!

Hopefully I get a better result with a new room, new placement and with these particular A5’s being fully broken in. I really want to like them but will ultimately see if I can get to a degree of musical engagement. Also less expensive than others on my list so that is appealing.

@bobbydd , what was your breakin experience like? Did you note any lack of bass at first? I will try with the speakers closer to the front wall next time, and play with positioning.

@nyev just curious if you ever heard/listened to the Acora loudspeakers? Heard them myself at Axpona and now they are on my wish list. 

For the benefit of this thread I have access to test Magicos, B&W, Sonus Faber, Audiovector, Wilson.  Willing to travel to listen to Rockport + Diablo 300 because so damn many people have been suggesting this combo, assuming 30’ clearance between front wall and rear of the Avior ii is acceptable.  Other than that I don’t really have options to test, so thanks for the other suggestions but it’s not going to be possible.

Your test set is plenty big. You check all those out, you are really likely to find a compelling set of speakers and extremely unlikely to miss something that would be earth shatteringly better. 
 

if for some reason you are unmoved by all of those… then you will have learned a lot and be ready to look at radically different designs. 
 

That is a great list.

@ghdprentice , I’m unfortunately down to the last couple of speakers on the list - I’ve tested B&W 801 D4’s, Sonus Faber Amati’s, Audiovector Arette R6’s, and Magico A5’s.

Of the bunch the Audiovector’s were the only ones that maybe I could live with but not be enthralled by. The Sonus Faber’s were excellent too (I know you have the Amati’s and can see why many enjoy these immensely), however I found them to be a bit mellow when it came to bass and rhythm drive. Lots of bass, but it seemed overly well behaved for my tastes. Probably comes down to choice of music. Salesman claimed that 100% of people who enjoy classical music go with Sonus Faber.

Also the room I tested the B&W’s and Sonus Faber’s in was so, so over treated that I have a hunch that the room was doing weird things to the tonal balance, and it’s very possible my audition of these speakers is not valid. But unfortunately there isn’t much I can do about that. Just walking into the room without music playing you can “sense” the dampening. Too much!

So that leaves the Wilson Sasha DAW, round 2 with a different set of A5’s at a different dealer, and that’s about it, assuming I write off the discounted Magico M2’s due to my larger room size.

Also plan to follow up on the Rockport Avior II travelling to Boston if I can get some sort of confirmation that 30” space behind the speakers may be adequate in my room, which is larger but doesn’t allow for the speakers to be way out from the walL.

As you said I learn a lot in this process. The main one being a better sense of respect for my current system and being relieved I have a general sound I very much enjoy at home.  I may not find anything I like at this point, we will see.

As a funny aside - while my wife has been VERY accommodating, I thought I’d better clear the aesthetics of the Wilson’s before wasting my time or the salesman’s time if their wonky looks were an absolute no-go for her.  She BARELY approved. Said they look like “robot trash-cans”.  But ultimately she said she discussed it with our daughter, and said if I audition them and “if you end up loving them more than me and your daughter, you can get them.  As long as we get to pick the colour!”

Can’t say I blame her, I think they look wonky my too but I’m all about the sound!

OP,

Thamks for your progress report. Sounds like you are doing a very thorough job. Hopefully zeroing in on your what is good for you. 
 

look forward to hearing more.

@nyev 

I think how close to the front wall they need to be will be room dependent. I have a smaller room that needed to be custom designed to make my Aviors work. But work they do! I would bet they will work just fine in your space. 
 

Regards 

Ron 

At Axpona, I auditioned the A5 vs Rockport.  The A5 had great midrange but seemed to lack treble sparkle.  The Rockports were better balanced but seemed clouded.  I ended up purchasing the AXPONA Vimberg MinoD because my dealer worked to get me a great deal.

@nyev

I think you should purchase the M2.  Worst case you'll resell them with minimum/no loss and maybe a gain.  The M2 is much better than the A5. The Mpods are a fantastic bonus.

@ronboco yes I’ve seen your photos and Avior I’d and it looks awesome.  After ruling out all local options I may need to book that trip to Boston using my points…. A bit concerned about catching COVID or now monkeypox while traveling (what next), but only because Canada issued a warning that if you are sick you may be forced into quarantine! 

Reasons you are not thinking outside the box, literally?

Just follow your own ears ( and budget).  Lots of fish in that sea!

I’m sure the M2’s are far better than the A5’s (they better be..), but again I’m  worried about how they will perform in my larger room.  And that dealer’s listening rooms are tiny…  

Nyev,

My A5's are positioned 9 feet into a 29 foot long room, also 16 feet wide and with 10 foot ceilings.

Break in was not a major factor, sound was good from the off, though improved some with use.

Every room has a different sound, so sometimes it's an educated.guess of what will work.

FWIW I preferred the A5 to the Sasha DAW, and this is from a Watt/Puppy 7 owner.

Good luck!

Perhaps you could work something out with the dealer to pay for a home demo. A home demo should be a given when purchasing at full price, but not for virtually half off. There is no way to predict how it will sound until you get it in your room and see how the speaker reacts. Jay’s latest Magico bears this out. It had far better bass than much larger speakers in his room because the speaker just clicks with the room acoustics. Given the prices you’re working with, maybe offer a grand for the home demo, which would be waived if you keep the speaker. Or perhaps just paying the extra grand regardless is enough of a carrot. No other way to know.

Magico makes some great speakers.  Sounds like you need a good pair of subs even though you are looking at a full range speaker.  Ck out a pair of the Rel Carbon Specials or the 212 SX.  After using subs in my system for the last 2 years, I can't imagine not having them.  They add weight and space and if set up correctly, they totally disappear.  

Without a doubt, if you can, buy the M2's they're an exceptional speaker.  I have S5's and a very very revealing system riven by Devialet mono's with JL Fathoms subs.  The M2'as are not a large speaker but stunning to look at and exceptional build quality.  They're easy to accommodate.  Most importantly their sound is amongst the very best at any price and significantly better than my S5's which are in turn much better than A5's.  All that being said, you will want a pair of high quality sub woofers like JL Audio Fathoms.  With that you will have everything you want.  They are accommodating of a wide variety of rooms but with such a large room will need additional bass reinforcement. It's not just the bass notes that will improve but soundstage and presence too. I'd also be tempted to explore a used pair of M3 for around the same price, try talking to Josh at Scott Walker Audio.  Your Gryphon will do wonderfully with both M2 and M3.  As one previous poster commented, Synergistic Research cabling helps enormously with this setup.