New cables - To judge now or after burn in period?

The question is why do so many cable designers believe in a cable break-in period, some call it setting-in?

Talk to Chris at VH Audio, he'll recommend the different break-in periods of the many cables he sells and assembles. He also uses a cable cooker on select cables.

 

Thanks everyone for the feedback, especially @ebm  @louisl   @ dinov. That was useful advice.

@ddrave44  , I was frankly not happy with either of the Siltechs. I ultimately went with Silversmith Audio Fidelium speaker cable. Out of the box, I knew that they were the ones that I would keep. It just boggles the mind that the cheaper cables (i.e. the Silversmith) won out over the Siltechs. However, I only returned the Legend 380i to my dealer. I have kept the 680i. It is now happily installed on my study system ( https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9671).

I do intend to swap them at some point in the future and with the Silversmith Audio Fidelium speaker cables and see whether I prefer their sound on my main system ( https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9619). This is the experimentation that keeps some of us audiophiles happy :-)

@mitch2

You are absolutely correct… but no matter how hard I have tried over the decades I just cannot get myself to spend that much money on something that does not directly improve the performance of my system. I ended up getting a extra DAC, and amp for experimental purposes (just Schiit) that I attach stuff for breakin.

But you are absolutely right, one should buy one… when as young as possible so you can amortize the cost over as long a period as possible.

dcpillai, It seems pretty evident from this thread that break in matters in Siltech cable performance. I use Siltech's and have found that even used ones need a good 50 hours to settle in after they've been moved /shipped.

I'm curious what you have seen with these in the past two months. Did they break in to your satisfaction? Did you decide to keep the Legends?

Its both bass takes 200 hours to fully come in however this being said these cables should sound great after 50 hours.

Any of you who,

• are in the process of building/improving/evolving your audio system,
• believe there are significant sonic differences between cables, 
• plan to try multiple audio cables in the future,
• are likely to spend serious money on audio cables, and/or
• plan to build your own cables, 

should give serious consideration to purchasing the audiodharma Cable Cooker from audio excellence az, or another type of cable conditioner. 

By conditioning your cables on the Cable Cooker you will take (most of?) the guesswork out of this whole burn-in discussion.  Even if you hear little to no difference after conditioning, you should at least have a level of confidence that you are actually hearing what the cables sound like.  By conditioning your new cables, you get to hear what they sound like shortly after you install them, instead of waiting days or months and wondering whether the cables are changing their presentation or whether it is actually your ears that are adjusting.  You can also "touch-up" the conditioning of your existing cables to remove burn-in concerns when comparing cables in your system.

Considering all the money some here spend on cables and other stuff, the $1-2K cost of the Cable Cooker (depending on the model you select) seems like money well spent.  I have no interest in the product or company, other than being a Cable Cooker owner since 2004.

 The Siltech cables are highly recommended by my distributor   ?   "Classic "

The ears have it, never mind the test equipment. Musicians choose certain gear exclusively (mostly) based on how it sounds. I say almost because you can’t fight or measure the effects of  payola. ;)

Break-in is definitely a must if you're buying new. Do the experiment yourself and listen to whatever reference you use at different times. Some of the changes on some cables can dramatic and pretty unsavory like "what the f*** did I spend my money on?!" Many builders will tell you how long they think it will take for a cable to get most of the way to sounding its best - I imagine that's what they'd want you to hear.

100 hours seems to be plenty for most. I've heard less and more. More definitely gets to be a drag. I've had cables that took that long and longer and it's no fun to burn up my tubes 24/7 - and hooking them up to the fridge seems like a bad idea somehow - but it's always been worth hearing what the builder intended. The cables I've been most enamored of have been mostly from more boutique builders who can tell you....some do want you to listen and tell for yourself, though. Buying used eliminates all of that though and a day of letting them settle in is plenty....this is my experience anyway.

I'm admittedly a pretty nervous audiophile who'll set up a few sets of IC's on my integrated and switch back and forth to replay a few of my reference songs back to back with different cables...really doesn't let me have any real insight, though. Impulse control isn't always my long suit....

The Dynamic Design cabling I have took three days. Much more open after 2 days and haven't changed much after 100. The changes are what makes them the only cable I've ever considered using as a loom. They became more 3D, nuanced and extended. I'm using PC's and IC's now and am awestruck by the music coming out of my system....that wasn't the case right away, began to become clear after 80 hours or so with PC's alone and after adding IC's (and being a little patient), the experience of interiorly illuminated and nuanced detail on a huge, layered, dead quiet stage with round 3D images is phenomenal. Even handed, extended with a natural control and timbre there's no etch or fatigue from my system at all...

So, patience. Siltech is a great cable and does take some breaking in - I used them back int the G4 era with Plinius gear when Plinius used it as hook up wire. Do yourself a favor snd get yourself a set of DD to listen to - you can usually get a demo period directly from them. 

Putting cables on blocks?..   why?  Leaving on floor seems ok.

It’s easy…if they sound good ‘out of the box’, then let ‘em brake-in.  If they don’t, move on.

That is an attack of the personal looser style added with The
cover of intellectual tape. Should you not like someone’s opinion go read a book Get a real education

Says the “intellectual” who refers to others who’s opinions he does not like as “the stupid of stupid”. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Besides, before you tell others to get an education perhaps you should master spelling, [looser]

BTW, what is intellectual tape? Does it help you with hearing? Try using more of it next time you listen. 😂🤣




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Until I got my Darwin speaker cables, all other brands had a slow and subtle break in over time. Looking back, that told me that practically all cables are just a variation on a theme and behave accordingly.

The Darwins were the first speaker cables to break in differently. For the first four hours or so, they behaved like any other I've tried. Then, they blossomed like a time elapsed video of a flower, opening up like nothing I've heard before.

You'll find there are few makes out there that are different than the usual run of cables.

All the best,
Nonoise

I currently own Transparent Audio speaker cables and interconnects and my hi-fi dealer recommended that I audition the Siltech cables because, in his opinion, they marry so well with Sim Audio electronics, which I also use.  So I have done a little online research on Siltech cables and came across a bing video of Edwin Rynveld, the CEO, chief engineer and owner of Siltech and his wife Gabi Rynveld, owner of Crystal Cable. Edwin is also the chief engineer of Crystal.  According to Edwin Rynveld cables (at least their cables) require break in.  You can view this video series if you google  Siltech & Crystal Cable Bing Video.  He mentions break-in during the last half of video 2 (I think some point after the 6 minute mark).  It was interesting to hear him say that if you put the cables in boiling water and take them out and let them dry off for a day they will sound better.  He explains fully what the process of heat accomplishes.  He says that you can get the same result with high current but it is not advisable for safety reasons. 

What would be the motivation for a company to post false information about cable break in? I can't figure it out. It's not going to make you purchase their cables, so what can it be? Also, it's not all cables that need a long burn in as stated by Cardas.

Stupid of stupid or deafest of deaf? I've gone into a couple of high end end retailers with a friend and listened to a system set up by the owners. in both cases they asked " doesn't that sound great "? We turned and looked at each other and said " that sounds terrible! ".

In cable design, there should not be any break in unless your amp has a DC offset.  The dielectric will not polarize with an AC signal because the opposing swings of voltage neutralizes it. Surprisingly, most amps have a little DC offset, and that reveals a problem with an amp, not adapting the cable. 

I no longer concern myself with burn in, break in, whatever you want to call it. I believe, I've experienced it. Remember, its not only metal, likely  dialectic more responsible for this. Anyway, I simply don't judge any new piece inserted into my system until at least 100-400 hours, depending on what equipment inserted. This way issue of burn in moot, I either like or don't like.

I never understand why the objectivists get so incensed by the subjectivists, seems to me they'd be better off being silently smug in their superior knowledge. Could it be they're threatened by us? Defensive.

That is an attack of the personal looser style added with The cover of intellectual tape. Should you not like someone’s opinion go read a book Get a real education

1971, you should always site the sources you reference. Here, let me help you.


The deaf audiophile society. (2017). How to claim an observation is false if you lack the intellect to come up with a hypothesis : Scientifitic theory for those who are intellectually challenged and deaf. (3rd edition) Wiley.

Cable burn in ?? Has to be the stupid of stupid. NO such thing period !! Get a life, go to school do something. Must admit my R8 10+ ran so much better when all the wires burned in not to mention the sound system improvement…. Apparently it’s in the fine print of any electronic device sold out there, Don’t make me laugh 😂 

I am not impressed when companies with deep pockets make what are, imo, unsupported claims claims such as a cable relaxing.

The Iconoclast Cables, OTOH,  were modeled and measured, and sold on rigorous testing.  They have been superb in all systems from the first moment. They have bested many other brands that claim break in is required.  

The longer I am in this hobby (40+ years now) the less system building nonsense I tolerate. 

See my Iconoclast review at Dagogo.com 

Insights - Cable Break-in (cardas.com)

Maybe try another brand , like chord cables or Shunyata..

Dcpillai, I got this info directly from the Siltech web site:

"Silver boasts the best conductivity of any metal, and this actually improves over time. The new G9 wire alloys silver and gold together to fill in the micro-cracks of the crystal structure, as well as offering improved cable run-in. Far less time is now needed for the conductors and insulators to achieve their optimum performance – under 100 hours is now required, depending on the connectors."

Good luck.

Read my two Audiophile Law articles in regard to Burn (break in) at Dagogo.com 

My Imbalanced System Test shows anyone clearly there is no change. 

You waste your life worrying about burn in. I have done the comparisons, you can read about it. Danny Richie has measured speakers/drivers and shown there is no change. No surprise.  

@andy2 Siltech was started in 1983 in the Netherlands a very well known silver cable specialist. Silnote is a fairly new US company that I know very little about.

They should sound good to you new. As they break-in, they will sound better.  If they don’t sound good out of the box I find one that does . I’m partial to siltech. Nice cables. I’m now into nordost. Even better. 

You should like them out of the box however bass should get better after 200 hours hopefully.However there is no guarantee.Maybe you would like pure copper cable eg Tara Labs Muse speaker cable i love them with my MAGICO speakers.Good luck.

Yes, for me switching back to my original after a long run is always good conformation.

Thank you all for the feedback and sharing of views / suggestions which were helpful, reassuring and ever interesting.

I have been running my system around the clock and the sound of music over my new cables (interconnects and speaker cables) is improving, OR perhaps it is my hearing / brain that is getting used to the sound of the new cables!

Either which way, the main thing is that I am beginning to appreciate and even enjoy the sound of music over the new cables. Hopefully things will continue to improve.

The next big test will be putting back my older cables and interconnects and seeing which I prefer. Will post again then. Thanks again.

"But if OP is concerned, why doesn't he ask his dealer to lend him cables that are already burnt in beyond dispute, say 1000+ hours. I am sure that will settle the issue for OP and enable him to make a rational choice without worrying whether burn-in is real or not."

One advantage of using the Cable Co's cable-lending library. . . 

600 hours for your ears to adjust to the new equipment?

As often noted, the break-in period is one hour longer than the 'warranty'.

I am inclined to go with those who don't consider there is much discernable change during burn-in.  Oldhvy may have it right.

But if OP is concerned, why doesn't he ask his dealer to lend him cables that are already burnt in beyond dispute, say 1000+ hours.  I am sure that will settle the issue for OP and enable him to make a rational choice without worrying whether burn-in is real or not.

By the way I love Siltech cables.  All my interconnects are Siltech.  I have something bigger for the speakers.

I am really sick of Miller saying that people who don't agree with him can't hear.
What he really means is people who don't agree with him are honest listeners and don't imagine things that don't exist.
He sets himself up as a goldenears when in reality his ears are just the same as ours.
On the evidence it is no doubt impossible for him to stop being so rude and offensive.

Cable burn in ? That is another Silly story for those with a wild imagination. 

installed new 4s11 canare speaker cables with double wiring to fit my recently acquired PBN speakers. I got about 30 hours on the cables and they have been all over the map so far, specially the first 25 hours. Sometime bass lacking, sometimes piercing highs, sometimes opposite. For real. The last few hours they seem to be stabilizing and I can start seeing their potential but it will take a lot longer to achieve it. So yeah, speaker cables do get better with use, not a single doubt in my mind.

Same issue as when I installed Canare 4S11. I allowed them to break in for 200 hours during which the sonics were  changing all over the place. After I had given them what I thought was enough time, the highs sounded harsh and brittle. I gave up and put them in the closet. 
A few years later after a major system upgrade, I tried them again due to all the good user reviews. After another 200 hours they settled in and presented a smooth top-end, very good dynamics, and a level of transparency that was an additional upgrade to my system.

So, is the break-in within the cable&terminal itself, or is it the chemical/physical union of terminal-to-receptacle?
    If one buys a second-hand high-quality set of cables, would they be already broken-in, or would break-in be starting from hour #1 once the used cables are attached to their new rig?

The dilemma can be that you like the cables immediately and then they burn in and they SUCK. The only answer when that happens is to get new cables every couple hundred hours...

There is no break in. What you hear when cables /wires are new is what they really sound like. The "break-in" is your ears adjusting to the be sound over time.
If break-in was true there'd be science articles explaining how it works and there would never be any arguments over it.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Actually there is no argument about break in, just whether you know about it or not.. Kind of silly statement on your part.. 

Science articles about break in and HOW to accomplish the best results were articles of the 50s, your only 70 years behind..

Enjoy your zip cord, nothing to be ashamed of when you just don't know or just can't hear the difference. We use to see a lot of that 10 years ago.. not so much any more.

Your welcome to read and learn though..

Regards

Burn in time is about 200 h. :after 100h, it will be sound better: more “open” and better placement of the instrument. After 200h. It must be okay !!

There is no break in. What you hear when cables /wires are new is what they really sound like. The "break-in"  is your ears adjusting to the be sound over time.
If break-in was true there'd be science articles explaining how it works and there would never be any arguments over it. 

I used to sell QED.

Very bright speaker cable.
Used it on my system.

Had to change to Merlin Scorpion speaker cable paired with my Plinius pre/power amp as it became unlistenable on some tracks.

I didn't like my Audience AU24SX interconnects when they first arrived.
The sound was very brittle. Opened up over 250 hours.

Now, one of my best purchases.
Saving up for speaker cables...

Our ears and brains are very sensitive to changes. I find any changes to a system seem “weird” because I’m used to hearing a song in a very certain way. It even happens at audio shows where the equipment I’m listening to is more expensive and by default should be “better”, but may not be initially. 

I installed new 4s11 canare speaker cables with double wiring to fit my recently acquired PBN speakers. I got about 30 hours on the cables and they have been all over the map so far, specially the first 25 hours. Sometime bass lacking, sometimes piercing highs, sometimes opposite. For real. The last few hours they seem to be stabilizing and I can start seeing their potential but it will take a lot longer to achieve it. So yeah, speaker cables do get better with use, not a single doubt in my mind.