Nearly all manufacturers do not advertise/exhibit their product measurements? Why?

@rcaguy welcome to the forum. I agree about attending to both objective and subjective experiences. Do you have a favorite brand that you like that attends to both? 

My cartridge test measured flat from 10Hz to 20Khz per the test sheet (unlike Lyras with their rising high end test measurements I've seen as well a heard).  

Where do the measurements for cartridges exist?
That seems like a place I would to peruse.

Ask yourself, why is Amir bothering to come to this site? 

Good question. 🤔

I am thinking… propaganda …?

Wow this Amir guy really knows how to ruffle some feathers in these parts. Maybe he’d be better off just offering up opinions like most everyone else.

Why? He has his own website and forum. He owns it. The ASR. And according to him, very popular. Why the need to spend so much time in other forums? Any sane person would logically ask that question. 

@mapman that was subtle… 😎

@rcaguy I am NOT a data denier. I also am not a real audiophile since I do not worry about my equipment (or their measurements). I prefer to listen to my music as I also don’t have the time to concern myself with what could make my audio system sound better. Only speakers at this point but I enjoy my system the way it is.

Read all of my posts and you will see how I desire test measurements where they are available. If they are not available, I do not just purchase equipment based on published meaningful technical specifications. They can also deceive as well (meaningful depends on it’s veracity as well). It’s also the synergy factor between equipment parts and the room as well. It’s not like building a tinkertoy. A good audio system is more complex. I absolutely believe cabling is equivalent to equipment in importance. Tweaks can be the added spice or correct acoustic deficiencies.

The amp in question sounds like one John Atkinson sort of trashed in 2018. Might it be a recent Cary Audio’s CAD-805RS? I read the review a while back and was rather shocked at it’s mediocre performance both distortion and power figures. That amp is $17K. Or the 25 year old Cary CAD-805 which has equally poor measurements at $9K in 2001. Thomas Norton warned, "There is more to the story than measurements, of course; if you listen to the CAD-805s, fall in love with their sound, and can afford the price and loudspeaker restrictions, by all means buy them. But go into the purchase with open ears." After consuming five critics opinions (four in love with it) on that amp over the years, I would choose the McIntosh MC30s. In my system, MC30s have unbelievably beautiful mids and sound like double the rated power (conservatively specd’  with great dynamics) but flabby bass. Friends bi-amp using it for the mids and highs.

@holmz For decades my cartridges have come with test graph measurements, sometimes with not just frequency sweep but with tracking force and test room temperature. Unfortunately, I’ve heard that cartridge manufacturers are dropping their included graphs in their cartridge boxes.

@mapman ​​​​​@thyname  +10

Music it is about the music not the gear. 

Today's crowd doesn't go to same school as it was going 40 years ago. Too many school subjects designed to provide knowledge had been replaced by subjects that block gaining knowledge. That's pretty much why. The global intelligence retardation is the primary reason. It's a lot easier to deal and to manipulate dumb vs. educated smart one. Easier to blow soap bubble and sell crap for a lot more than it's worth.

@mapman +100 "Wow this Amir guy really knows how to ruffle some feathers in these parts. Maybe he’d be better off just offering up opinions like most everyone else."

@thyname 

Why? He has his own website and forum. He owns it. The ASR. And according to him, very popular. Why the need to spend so much time in other forums? Any sane person would logically ask that question. 

@amir_asr  has responded to this question perhaps a couple of times. 

ASR has been introduced and critiqued, and it is his right to respond in whatever manner he chooses.

Tell the community what you really think.

+1 @noske 

It’s funny as I attracted a 2 week ban there, but none here.

There is some bizarre tribalism around that parallels religion, politics, vaccines, etc…  But I guess it is all politics in the end.

In the words of Rodney King. “Why can’t we all just get along?”

@holmz

There is some bizarre tribalism around that parallels religion, politics, vaccines, etc…

We don’t have those issues in Australia.

Oh, wait, stereonet AU. Be upper class Green or Marxist and you are invited to the club. 

I used to sometimes chat on their open forums about matters of import but when I got blocked, I felt no need to request redemption or forgiveness.

My loss, of course.

Thanks, Jetter.  Trying to be helpful (after 60+ years as an audio professional), I've published a book on the Phonograph to get the most from the groove.

@rcaguy book ordered.
Thanks

@carlsbad 

Just now reading this thread and you comment just cracked me up!

ASR is the Shock Jock of the audiophile world, 

@amir_asr 

I have plenty of this data.  It falls in these categories:

having plenty of data is like having lots of shoes. You know, like women, who have lots of shoes? is each pair of shoes the right size? Can it match with what she's wearing etc. So having lots of shoes or lots of data are both meaningless unless we can find common ground and repeatable metrics of performance.

1. Company never bothered to make any measurements.  You can count on this being the reason in just about any audio tweaks (cables, etc.).  I know this because they are often surprised by my measurements.  But when I ask them for theirs, they have none.

Okay... so a multi-million dollar company that can afford to take measurements decided not to. The reason for non-sense products in audio is gullible customers; namely non-technical/inexperienced audiophiles. The exuctives and folks in marketing know this - so they produce these products with the intent of selling them for healthy profits! Who are you to ask for product data from companies? Unless of course you have intent to purchase - for example, asking about rated ouput power for a headphone amplifier in mW into a certain number of ohms. 

2. They make very rudimentary measurements often using obsolete audio analyzers that don't remotely present the deep dive that I provide in ASR reviews.  One of the main reasons for this is the cost of instrumentation.  A proper audio analyzer sets you back US $30,000.  A proper speaker measurement requires spending $2K to get measurements in anechoic ichamber or buying $100,000 Klippel NFS that I have.

Have you visted manufacturing facilities and corporate/engineering offices to confirm these supposed findings? I would think that any popular or even remotely successful audio manufacturer has more money than you, so being able to afford an audio analyzer is likely not a hurdle. Your $100k Klippel costs as much as a half-decent Porsche. There are better machines out there. If there's so much bad-measuring gear out there, why are those brands so popular and respected?! for example, Luxman and Accuphase. 

3. They have the right measurements but don't want to publish them.  Harman as noted falls in this category with their speakers.  Their marketing department thinks it will be "confusing" to people if they publish detailed measurements.  Engineers and product planners disagree and leak it in forums and such.  So the information is there but not in product pages.  

If a manufacturer is proud of their work, they will want others  to notice. I've worked with a lot of clients before; some in industrial manufacturing; won't get in to details. However, important information is shared if we ask for it. You cannot be sure of what someone else is thinking (not wanting to publish it) this is merely a correlation you are creating that is otherwise invalid. Of course employees disagree at every company...but that does not mean the end result of their work was an inferior product. 

Note that even if you had measurements on cables for example, they would be useless.  I don't know about you but I don't listen to cables.  Or power conditioners.  Or AC cables.  I listen to the output of my audio system.   You would think if these things change the output of your system, these companies would be anxious to show them in measurements.  Or failing that, using controlled listening tests.  You get neither.

Small amounts of current or voltage variation can influence how well an audio component performs. Different types of metal - copper, silver, CCAW wire can impact sound quality. Why be so opinionated, as though only you are right?! I'm just stating what I believe is true based on experience.

Instead, companies talk about such things as "lower noise," "EMI," "Jitter," yet no measurements are shown.  Instead, some theories are put forward that sound good to consumers.  Sadly some audiophiles buy into these unproven claims so companies think "life is good so why bother."

Again, who cares?!

The industry is transforming though because if they don't measure, then I might.  :)  Smart company would want to get ahead of the game and make their own measurements.  And offer them.  Schiit for example when through this major change from using obsolete measurement gear to what I have now.  Reports are now released with every new product.  

So you are the audio measurement god and all companies must yield before you so that you can measure their electronics and rank them on your website? Who cares what they use. Does it sound good? That's what really matters.

Audiophiles have gotten quite a bit more educated and are driving this change.  I routinely hear from companies saying people want me to measure their gear before they buy them.

Where on earth are you reaching this conclusion from: "Audiophiles have gotten quite a bit more educated and are driving this change." Nah, I don't think so. Every audio ethusiast I know visits different audio shops, takes notes, and compares/contrasts audio gear based on listening by themselves and with a friend or their Wife. Because that same system would be in their house if they spent their money and bought it. I don't think audiophiles are flocking to your site like seagulls for french fries..lol

Furthermore, the audio industry as a whole has yet to adapt to viewing audio measurements as all important. If such were the case, published textbooks would have been established as a gold standard hailing your set of audio measurements as supreme. Yet, that has obviously not occured, nor will it ever.

I hope every audiophile is supportive of more information than less and will push the industry to provide comparable and reliable information about their products.

Tell me what you think the product does (product description) and I will tell you if it meets those standards/fills that purpose. That is truly all a prospective buyer needs to know. Good enough or optimal for them, then they can buy what they want and be happy. End of story.
 

@mastering92

Have you visted manufacturing facilities and corporate/engineering offices to confirm these supposed findings? I would think that any popular or even remotely successful audio manufacturer has more money than you, so being able to afford an audio analyzer is likely not a hurdle. Your $100k Klippel costs as much as a half-decent Porsche. There are better machines out there. If there's so much bad-measuring gear out there, why are those brands so popular and respected?! for example, Luxman and Accuphase. 

I have not only visited them, I have had them directly and explicitly tell me they lack such gear.  You and I may think it is justifiable for them to invest in such gear but they think otherwise. Take PS Audio with their super expensive new speakers.  Their designer is active on ASR and clearly stipulates that the company doesn't want to invest in this gear.  So they are having their speaker measured by a third-party testing lab.  After the fact (design) sorry to say.

As to better machines, no, it doesn't exist. The only alternative to Klippel NFS is a massive ancehoic chamber.  I am talking $5M+.  The $1M ones are too small to be anechoic to 20 Hz as Klippel NFS is (actually NFS has no lower limit).

What companies do is take shortcuts with gated high frequency measurements and patching that with ground plane testing.  This gives you decent results but it is very time and resource consuming so it only gets done once in a while.  With Klippel NFS, you can do two scans in a day and generate full 3-D map of the speaker during that time!  It will highly accelerate the design verification.

Then again, $100K plus space and training to use the gear is more than many companies want to spend. This is gradually changing though as I have seen companies buy the system after seeing ASR measurements.  And realizing that the awareness around these measurements is increasingly and rapidly so.

@mastering92 

Small amounts of current or voltage variation can influence how well an audio component performs. Different types of metal - copper, silver, CCAW wire can impact sound quality. Why be so opinionated, as though only you are right?! I'm just stating what I believe is true based on experience.

Me being opinionated?  How about  you all? I stand on shoulders of numerous engineers and designers in audio.  Who do you go by?  Your gut and folklore you read online? 

Back to your point, yes, there are measurable differences in cables which I show day in and day out.  The problem you have is that the sound coming out of your gear does not change.  This is confirmed both in measurements and controlled testing where only your ear is involved.

You want to put your head in the sand, be my guest.  But don't make this personal about me.

@mastering92 

Tell me what you think the product does (product description) and I will tell you if it meets those standards/fills that purpose. That is truly all a prospective buyer needs to know. Good enough or optimal for them, then they can buy what they want and be happy. End of story.

The perspective buyer has been kept in the dark with respect to true capabilities of the product.  Instead he has been trained to eat up marketing claims that are easily falsified. I am trying to shine some sunlight here.  What business of yours is it to push us back into darkness?  Stand aside if you have nothing technical to share that can be objectively relied upon.  Heaven knows we have enough people lining up to feed folks folklore this way....

@mastering92 

So you are the audio measurement god and all companies must yield before you so that you can measure their electronics and rank them on your website? Who cares what they use. Does it sound good? That's what really matters.

Another emotional rant with no constructive value.  No, I am not a "measurement god."  Learning to use an instrument to measure audio gear is not impossible or hard.  The problem we have is that audio companies think they can just feed you marketing claims and you accept it.  So why try harder to provide proof?

So I come around and test things.  That causes heartburn for you.  As if having more data is bad for us as consumers.  Better logic can be found in fortune cookies.  Be an advocate of consumers.  Ask for proof points.  If someone says XYZ sounds better, ask them for listening tests where only the ear was involved.  If they refuse, then ask them for measurements.  If they don't give you that either, then run, run away fast.

Alternatively be part of the solution than the problem.  Don't spend the time writing this missive of a response.  Instead, encourage companies to provide more reliable data to us.  Support the work some of us are doing to to improve the situation as opposed to acting the PR shield for companies.

I just finished testing a $2,299 IEM.  In ever regard it is worse than my favorite $50

one: 

This is what proper testing gives you.  And oh, the testing included listening test so don't climb up that tree.....

amir_asr

... Stand aside if you have nothing technical to share that can be objectively relied upon. Heaven knows we have enough people lining up to feed folks folklore this way....

Of course you get to make that sort of demand on your website, but not here. No on A'gon is obligated to submit any proof upon your demand, nor do we need your permission to post to this site.

Here we go....the Kraken awakens, lol.

@coralkong 

lol

The Water Horse: Legend of the Deep

The Water Horse: Legend of the Deep

LOL The Water Horse has hatched from a new egg!! Or perhaps a life story?!

From 0:44 onwards... the manufacturer, the dealer, the buyer, and the Water Horse!

"there can be only one in the world at a time."

Sounds about right!! Have a good laugh guys!!

@amir_asr Folks...If anything he becomes far too triggered by differences in viewpoints. Good God. This is the real world...where people may disagree about particular subject matter. How you construct your retorts is rather distasteful. Talking about heartburn, being emotional, fortune cookies, folklore, heaven, and even "darkness." Maybe AudioQuest named their cable - Mythical Creature after you!

Writing about what audio manufacturers don’t do - such as them not using up to date audio measurement equipment is none of your business. How they produce audio electronics is up to the qualified, experienced, and degreed employees who work at these companies, not you. Same with the audio electronics from otherwise good companies that you constantly bash. Folks in pro audio, such as legends like Ray Staff and Steve Hoffman would run circles around you in terms of real technical audio knowledge...despite the fact that you are a large Water Horse.

"You can have a big mouth, but don’t try to bite off more than you can chew. "

- Above is what your fortune cookie says.

You constantly trash-talk and it gets on people’s nerves. This is why you have been banned on so many different audio forums. Want me to share old-skool screen captures?! You do the same thing every single time...grow up and learn to be mature. Especially at your age. This proves that age alone is not an indicator of wisdom, emotional intelligence, or overall intellectual capacity.

You are always trying to impose your personal beliefs and supposed expertise on audiophiles or anyone interested in the hobby...guess what?! Nobody really cares!

Back to audio manufacturers - Do you run their companies? Do you make it possible for their employees to put food on the table by providing them an income? No. One thing you are incredibly good at is becoming a laughing stock on audio forums. You don’t welcome 3rd party valdiation of your testing; Yet I have seen posts on numerous forums where experts have proven your measurements were done incorrectly.

Like Paul McGowan said, he wishes you would contribute to this hobby, rather than be a thorn on its side.

So Water Horse, I summon you back to the waters..away from the land...leave audio enthusiasts, pro audio folks, and audiophiles alone. Your only fanbase are the minions on ASR. Eventually, they too shall become believers in listening as the ultimate test. What will you do then?!

Water Horse says: BHAAAHHA !!!

This is why you have been banned on so many different audio forums.

Of course he would be silenced if he is exposing the truth about high end audio. Do you realize the damage it would cause the industry if it were found that $100K amps and speakers were all scams?

You are always trying to impose your personal beliefs and supposed expertise on audiophiles or anyone interested in the hobby...guess what?! Nobody really cares!

No he is not. He is sharing objective data with the public and exposing the conspiracies going on within the industry. There will always be those that are in denial such as yourself but you can't deny the truth. If you think you are qualified to refute his claims you will need to provide your data which contradicts his findings. 

How they produce audio electronics is up to the qualified, experienced, and degreed employees who work at these companies, not you

Most are not qualified. The ASR group set high standards within the industry because nobody else will. 

Eventually, they too shall become believers in listening as the ultimate test. What will you do then?!

They have already been converted to the ASR school of thought. There is no going back once you find the truth. 

@amir_asr 

What companies do is take shortcuts

LOL, are you still sitting in that same room with the bare walls and floors with your mic and laptop? Get a REAL studio Amir, it will help your brand, not to mention your results, stop with the shortcuts already. If you want a reference look at our virtual system area, many members here are taking time to do it proper.

@kenjit

bolderdash...all of the above.

Why is he trying to "expose the truth about high-end audio?" who exactly does that benefit? How do you know that costly audio products (in that particular price range) are scams?!

He is sharing what he believes to be objective data that does not translate in to real-world performance...we all know that gear he praises so often costs pennies on the dollar to build..v-chip computer-grade capacitors, OP amps, no discrete components or fuses, etc.

And you know this...how?! You are actually suggesting that well-known or reputable or popular audio brands do not employ qualified employees? How dare you! The ASR group?!! never heard of it. ASR is not like JEDEC: stop dreaming...

Really? You, Admin and friends have enfeebled their minds and made them believe that only ASR is right?! Well good then, because who cares.

The concept here is...costly = scam. Cheap = good. Measurements = everything.

Right?!

That’s like saying michelin star restaurants are a scam, high-end cars are a scam, luxury housing is scam, high-end computers are a scam, etc.

Most importantly, why on earth do you and Amir care so much about what others believe? Like my grandfather used to say..LIVE AND LET LIVE.

Let others live how they want to without interferring in their lives.Let folks in this audio hobby spend their money on what they want...

If you change someone’s mind...what is in it for you?

In no other industry does such a person or community exist...one who tries with such effort (yet ultimately futile attempts) to convince the masses that their train of thought and beliefs are misguided or just plain wrong. With no one else do we argue about "being objective" vs being "subjective." We all require the use of descriptive language to communicate to others our listening impressions. That is not difficult to understand.

How much did Amir pay you to post for him?

@amir_asr

The problem we have is that audio companies think they can just feed you marketing claims and you accept it.

This is ASR defined, you are here feeding your own marketing claims. I am not insulted at all, but did I "accept it" 🤣🤣🤣

@amir_asr do you really want to measure something, let’s start with your OWN room OK?
I’ll go first and if I win I am taking your crown as the new "king of measurements". May the best microphone win 😂😂😂😎:

The concept here is...costly = scam. Cheap = good. Measurements = everything.Right?!

We have tested the chinese DACs and found them to offer superior distortion. They are priced fairly based on cost of parts. Why pay ten or twenty times more for inferior performance? Who does that benefit? It only profits the high end companies.

Good measurements are not everything but neither are listening tests alone.

Most importantly, why on earth do you and Amir care so much about what others believe? Like my grandfather used to say..LIVE AND LET LIVE.

We care about elevating the standards in the audio industry. If theres too much junk out there, that cant happen. We are here to promote the basic principle of high end audio which is perfect sound quality. If you do not subscribe to this, you are the one that does not belong in our community. We do not want our community standards to be compromised or tainted.

He is sharing what he believes to be objective data that does not translate in to real-world performance..

Listening tests can vary depending on your ears your room your setup. We are here to test the performance of the gear without those variables. 

@kenjit

You, Amir, your site admin, and others who are tasked with this pursuit are not the Power Rangers, Marvel/DC Superheros, Saints, Pastors, or the defends of this audio industry. Nobody asked you to take on such a responsibility and become a "gatekeeper of truth" for everyone in this audio hobby. Like I said before the "ASR group" LOL is not a certified or universally respected standards organization. You and team do not create and enforce standards for ANYTHING AT ALL with audio electronics.

The scare tactic is merely measurements...which have caused an uproar from the truly enlightened and intelligent in this hobby who know they are not all-important (measurements alone) and trying to bait manufacutrers in to producing better-measuring audio gear...since now they know Amir and team will be on their radar; trying to bash their company and efforts.

Instead, all of you are self-proclaimed gurus who have exasperated existing problems in the audio industry as a whole to unanticipated heights!

ASR is powerless to influence the highest ranks of this industry; such as the top-most Studios, wealthy audiophiles, and audio dealers. I double-dog dare Amir and team to call up a music studio in Hollywood, the UK, Japan, etc anywhere in Europe and suggest these budget products. See what happens. Once again, he will be treated like a laughing stock...

I have spoken to almost a dozen real audio dealers about ASR; and we have had many good laughs about the website and testing methods. @amir_asr Amir, you do not owe the world anything. If only you would retire for good from ASR and working in general, buy the system you want in its entirety, have a good and happy life with your real friends and family, enjoy listening to music on your own terms, and ultimately leave others alone...you would have much less stress in your life.

You are creating all kinds of dichotomies, rivaries, and conflicts between others simply because you always must interject your opinions and beleifs on the masses. Once again, I ask why? I may have found proof your collusion (at least hinting at it) with select brands you review. Want me to post it on here so everyone can see?

To be honest with you, I could not care less if you are discredited on every major platform to date...wait a minute...you already have been. I don’t give a damn about your reputation. Only your site admin, site minions, and you care about you. I don’t.

No, I do not care about destroying your reputation, but others have done it before countless times. I do not have any personal beef with you, nor do I hate you as a person. Now that’s hard to believe right? I am a well-meaning person. When you get on my nerves and keep spewing nonsense, you or anyone deserves backlash that crushes and dismantles your entire belief system, and we’ve already given you that over and over.

Someone like Gene DellaSala is already an objective eye in this industry. We do not need you @amir_asr ! Ultimately, our purchase decisions will be made spending our own money, not yours.

I shall not respond further to your minion - @kenjit whose username sounds familar when I was a member on ASR...he has gone though the ASR stadards protal and landed here...on Audiogon. Big mistake. This webiste is populated by knowledgable audiophiles and pro audio folks who know their stuff. Amir, did you actually believe that you alone possess superior knowledge in audio?! Give it up already. You will be happier and perhaps even live a longer life without all this added stress that you bring upon yourself!

So once again water horse... @amir_asr I’ll give you two options:

1) Respond to the logical retort that @kota1 has presented to you above (which you previously attacked on another discussion; stating that his software results were incorrect or inconclusive; how do you know this without actually being there in person and confirming said test results? Well you don’t. You lack a stupendous amount of creds and it shows, Amir.

You want real knowledge? Well here it goes:

RMAF15: What The Specs Don’t Tell You… And Why (from an Audio Precision Employee)

The "mad scientist" of Sony audio (someone who actually has designed audio electronics; talking about what matters).

Reach out to a Techical Director at Studio @amir_asr You would get absolutely swamped such that you, being a gigantic water horse with grandiose narcissism would drown under the waters of real objective truth in this industry.

2) Take a bow and admit you’re wrong. Rihanna - Take A Bow

No matter what you try @amir_asr , you will always be taken down by people who have more knowldedge/experience/credentials than you. Always remember that!! - And with great power, comes great responsibility. (You have lead an entire community or flock of now-minions astray on ASR). You also damage the minds of laypersons who want to explore this hobby. Once folks find out that just because an audio device produces output (that does not make it good) they will hunt you down like a bad dog and hold you accountable. Don’t make me talk to my industry connections worldwide lol ...there could be a lot of troube in store for you.

@mastering92 : what are you doing? You realize you are simply giving Amir and his worshippers (what you call minions) another platform, a tool to generate even more clicks to the site they already own?

Think. Why is he posting here? Isn’t a full site he currently own, apparently most popular audio site in the entire audio world, the ASR, not sufficient for him as a platform to express his personal views fully and freely?

+1 thyname 

@thyname

what are you doing? You realize you are simply giving Amir and his worshippers (what you call minions) another platform, a tool to generate even more clicks to the site they already own?

Think. Why is he posting here? Isn’t a full site he currently own, apparently most popular audio site in the entire audio world, the ASR, not sufficient for him as a platform to express his personal views fully and freely?

That doesn’t really matter. He can also get clicks from other forums, his YouTube videos, people posting ASR links on their personal blogs etc. If his site becomes more popular, then good for him. That is not something that can be stopped or prevented...because the internet is a big place!!

I responded to iron-out discrepancies...and moreover, to banish Amir from this site with strong responses for which he had no reasonable answers....therefore needing to call upon one of his supporters to speak for him.

Well alright then. We can assume that we won’t hear much from @amir_asr anymore. The water horse has set sail...to far...far..away land in the republic of ASR.

@dabel

@amir_asr

The problem you have is that the sound coming out of your gear does not change.

Amir, the sound of those speakers you measured with your $$$$ equipment changes the minute you stick them in your room with the bare walls and bare floor. Don’t believe me, measure again and see if you don’t trust your ears.

You would be MUCH better off if you sold your equipment and invested in your room like @fleschler did.

BTW, if you eventually decide to post your measurements I think you will get the help you need here, NP. 

Never underestimate “The Preacher Man.”

Keep thy Sword & Shield nearby…………

When Kenjit agrees with ASR you know you should stay as far away as possible.

Did everyone notice that @amir_asr didn't reply to my measurement throw down to compare rooms?

He forfeits and now Kota1 is measurement champ!

@amir_asr I am up for a rematch if you ever get your room measured. if you don't I completely understand, it must measure like it looks, very echo like. 

@kota1 

Master is currently away. However I will have you know that Master uses the klippel NFS technology to measure speakers. This technology was designed specifically to address the problem of having an imperfect room. It doesnt matter how his room measures, he is measuring the speaker without the effects of the room. Master Amir has a Klippel NFS costing $100K. What have you got?

@kenjit

Thanks for your reply, I have a nice room to get the best performance from my speakers. The only time the speakers measure like they do when they are measured in the klippel is when they are in the klippel. As soon as you put them in a room the sound is reflected and changes everything.

If @amir_asr is master you can call me "your majesty" or "king of all measurements" as you prefer. I have opted not to use the HRH designation.

What have you got?

Why am I getting Lord of the Rings vibes? Master? Creepy $hit, man....

@kenjit 

Recently, Amir reviewed an IEM (in ear monitor) and the results are absolutely shocking. Shall I post a detailed photo showing a comparison on my systems page so you can show your master?!

@kota1 

It's actually entertaining to witness this much redundant failure. Yes, your room measures well and that makes Amir and friends jealous. No machine can compensate for all the air or reflection points in a room. I don't care if it costs 100 grand... @kenjit seriously...how much is Amir paying you to stand up for him?

Recently, Amir reviewed an IEM (in ear monitor) and the results are absolutely shocking. Shall I post a detailed photo showing a comparison on my systems page so you can show your master?!

I have seen the review he did. Yes it was shockingly bad. But we only know this thanks to the Master. If not, the company would have got away with it. Be grateful

@kenjit

Why do you keep worshipping the ground on which Amir walks?

What on earth is wrong with you?

Seriously, how much did he pay you?

Even a beta-male simp loser has more self-respect than you. You have given up as a man and surrendered to some guy on the internet!! Hell, even though I’ve helped a lot of people in real life, they wouldn’t dare stand up for me the way you do for Amir. Although they are certainly grateful, they have their own sense of individuality and don’t yield to authority all that quickly.

I wasn’t asking you about if you saw that review or not. Now answer my question - Would you like me to post that detailed photo and explain where he went totally wrong?!