Move from Parasound A23 to A21/A21+ or Something Else?
Hello, looking for some advice on an amplifier upgrade. Some years ago I was able to get an original Parasound A23 for a really great deal. I like the amp quite a bit and it was a wonderful upgrade from a class d amplifier I was using. I am mostly happy with the amp but I have noticed on loud or complex passages that the music can become strained sounding. It will shift from a nice layered and smooth sound to a more brittle and flat sound. It’s like the soundstage collapses to one dimension right between the speakers and music gains a hardness to it. It’s hard for me to explain exactly as I not that great at descriptors for audio.
Anyway, it doesn’t happen all the time only when listening to dynamic and busy music at higher volumes like 85+ db average at the listening position; about 3 meters from the speakers. The room is around 4500 cubic feet and semi open to other rooms. The speakers are Focal Kanta 2s. When I calculate the actual needs for wattage based upon distance and sensitivity, I "should" be fine with the A23. However, I wonder if a more powerful amp would help with the issue?
I like the signature of the Parasound so I am thinking of a used A21 or maybe even the A21+ if I could snag one at a good price. Is there anything else that should be on my radar? Looking to spend up to $3K max, less is better. Or, I could save up and maybe get a JC5 in 9-12 months if it was really worth it.
@mrteeves I ended up buying and receiving a mint, one year old JC5 today. Initial impressions are that it's an immediate step up in clarity, detail, sound staging, and bass (both quantity and refinement). Everything feels more effortless and flows more smoothly. And that's just out of the box.
I'll let it run in for a bit and get more time on it to see how things go but wanted to share. Makes my Arcam amp sound muddy and unrefined by comparison and I wasn't even unhappy with that amp's performance previously.
The new Duo lineup from KRELLL seems very well built. I have had the K-300i and now the 175XD and cannot fault them operationally. In fact, the K-300i was the very best implementation of ROON READY that I have tried because it also controls volume.
On a lark I tried my KEF LS50's with the KRELL 175XD and what a great sound. I always felt the LS50 (the original one) scales with better amplification. My Benchmark AHB2 and this KRELL Dou 175xXD (very different sonically) really take the LS50 to great heights. I am going to keep this combo with a KEF KC62 sub in my small office.
@christianb5s4 IMO Krell is a hit and miss company. The EVO line are first class regarding built and sound quality that includes the matching preamp Evo 222. I have not heard the current Duo line but the build and parts quality are not on the same level. Many Krell fans love the FPB line of power amps but most of them are pushing 20+ years old with multiple owners. The EVO line is in that 10 year old window where a 1 owner mint unit is still possible to locate.
That makes sense to me, thank you for the feedback. The forward presentation of the soundstage is good to know as well because with my current amp, the soundstage feels to be at or behind the speakers. I wouldn't mind it to move forward a bit more.
Hello @christianb5s4, I can say the amp has broken in nicely and I am liking it more everyday. The grain has smoothed out and the amp sounds much more balanced than out of the box.
How would I describe it with the Kantas...it is detailed without being analytical. It tends to project the sound into the room more and put the listener in the front row where as before the sound seemed to come from behind the speakers and I was sitting many rows back. This projection threw me off initially but I have become more appreciative of it as the amp has added a great sense of depth to the soundstage. One can tell that the dummer is behind the horn player now on a given recording if that makes sense.
A couple of other cool attributes, the amp has brought out a lot more micro details in recordings and I am hearing things I’ve never heard before on familar material. Another thing I like is, it’s all there even at low listening levels. I really don’t need to turn it up to hear more into a recording but if I do, it just gives me more of the same and never falls apart. The character doesn’t change with increased volume. It’s a great sounding amp and very neutral where as the A23 was slightly warmer.
@jdub39, that is what I am expecting. I am guessing the amp will smooth out as it gets some hours on it. I'm going to give it plenty of time before I make any judgements. Thus far, it has some promising qualities.
Decided to go with the JC5. Just got it and am breaking it in. Will see how it develops. At first pass it appears to have more resolution over the A23 and sounds more realistic on live recordings. The sound is more forward as well and has some grain that I am hoping smooths out as it breaks in. Wife really likes the way it sounds and remarked right away that is was better than the old amp. The thing is a beast size wise.
Look for a Canary ca160 and run it in triode try Ulta linear but you will likely prefer triode. At 100 watts triode and 140 ultra linear lots of tube power on tap. Or much more than you want to spend look for a Mark Levinson.
I owned the A23 for a long time (used with KEF LS50’s) and it did the job, but I was not crazy about the sound. I recently bought a mint used A21+ and was happy with the results.
I preferred the A21+ over the A23 by a huge amount. I used the A21+ with a hard to drive Thiel CS3.7 and also my RAAL SR1a headphones. I got the A21+ mostly for the headphones, since I had a CODA #8 sounding great on my Thiels.
Since the RAAL SR1a are so resolving I noticed that the amp was very powerful and took a bit of the bright bite off the SR1a, however, there was a bit of clarity that it lacked. The A21+ sounded similar to my old CODA CSiB integrated amp.
I decided to spend too much money and replaced the A21+ on my headphones with the KRELL Duo 175XD. Now this was a homerun with my headphones. About a month ago I switched the KRELLL to my Thiel and the CODA #8 to my headphones. The KRELL has now become my favorite amp on the Thiel’s. It is the 175 watts of Class A on the KRELL that is blowing my mind. Just an incredible amp.
Take a look at this amp. It is more powerful than the Duo 175XD I purchased.
If you like the JC5 then you should give a listen to the Anthem P2 amp, it stays cool to the touch and has all the power you will need. It never seems like it's straining and it is a very neutral sounding amp that does not get in it's own way by coloring the music but just let's the music sound as it should.
Lots of options - but the JC5 would prolly be my choice. It operates in class A up to about 20 watts - which you may never / rarely exceed. And you have all the power you will ever need no matter what speakers you may have in future.
Ive got 2 or 3 A-21’s snd a pair of JC-1’s. They all sound great with any of my speakers, in including my Magnestand Maggies - which is why I bought them all.
Few amps sound better - especially at their prices.
You might want to get a used A-21 for a couple of years for $1500+ and upgrade to the JC-5 in a couple of years. You can always sell your A-21 then.
I love the Cambridge Audio Azur 851w run in mono and price wise I feel like there in the same ball park. I still love those amps and have them as my second system.
My primary I went...
JC5’s and then bit the bullet and now have the JC1+ amps and couldn’t be happier.
But I’ll be honest SPL’s stereo amp really has my attention and they make awesome stuff.
So my recommendation as a non-parasound brand would be the SPL Performer s800,
Output power (RMS, 4 Ω)
570 W
Output power (RMS, 8 Ω)
370 W
But is $3,500... But cheaper then a JC5 (which is a great amp)
“+++I had the A23 5 years ago. Nice amp, but...GaN technology brings a number of benefits to the table, high efficiency, cool running, and most importantly, fantastic sound. I have owned the LSA Voyager GaN 350 for over a year, and thrown all kinds of music at it that I am very familiar with. I can’t imagine a better amp for MSRP $3000, but they do run specials”+++
I have the A23+ and owned the LSA Gan350. The A23+ dominated it! The Gan amp just didn’t project sound like the A23+. The Gan lacked bite and turned out to sound boring. Never got my toes tapping. One can say the Gan amp sounds good, especially on the top end, but it just wasn’t nearly as engaging as the A23+. On the A23+, the bass was tighter, the mids were more prominent and the top end had more sparkle. It was also quieter with no source playing with volume cranked.
After weeks of listening for several hours a day, I wanted the gan amp to be better, but it never happened. On a final note, the Gan amp was less dynamic and it actually raised Sinatra’s voice a half octave where the weight of his voice was lacking. (Compared on a professionally calibrated system using Xtension10 turntable, Soundsmith Paua es cartridge and Modwright PH9.0X phono pre.)
I had to have a Mc452 repaired under warranty last year which took 5 months.
In the interim, I recapped parasound HCA855 to run the front speakers. My God it sounded great. When my MC452 came back home I thought it sounded lifeless.
GaN technology brings a number of benefits to the table, high efficiency, cool running, and most importantly, fantastic sound. I have owned the LSA Voyager GaN 350 for over a year, and thrown all kinds of music at it that I am very familiar with. I can’t imagine a better amp for MSRP $3000, but they do run specials
@russ69 +1 The same thought ran through my mind when I read the OP‘s post. Maybe he should be looking for a pure class a amp? It sounded like a description of what one might experience when a class a B amp switches from a to B mode
I have a used MF A1008. Great integrated. Prefer it to both a Micromega M100 and the A21 with tube preamp. MF are great deals on the used market and I hear dealers are hot to negotiate new. Dunno I buy used 90% of the time.
The A21 is much, much better that the A23 and will drive your speakers... no problem. The A21+ is an upgrade for sure but not worth the extra cash IMO. The JC5 is in another league but still not dual mono . I like the advice by erik to try other amps too. I listened to an integrated dual mono design by Musical Fidelity, M6500i and it was very organic, effortless power. Not even a hint of strain with Vandersteen 2CE Sig II speakers. BTW I own an A21 and pair it with Schiit Freya Plus tube preamp. If I didn’t have it... I would get the MF integrated.
I would say, as a past Parasound owner, you should listen to contrasting gear before staying. yes, the A21 is a bigger amp, but listen to Ayre, Luxman, Pass and McIntosh. You'll either love the Parasound more or you'll realize you want to move in a different direction.
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