I am astounded by the focus people put on the gear...
I perfeclty know why now...
They dont know how to make the better with what they already own...
There is no relation between any system before and after acoustic treatment and acoustic control...NONE...
I dont give a dam about the gear now...
Give me any relatively good speakers, dac, and amplifier, i will make them sound very very good....Any gear...It is easier with the best for sure thats all....It is impossible with very bad cheap design also yes for sure...But i speak about any relatively good one...
Acoustic is the road not a branded name of amplifier save for ignorant reviewer...
It is like most people wanted to sell their taste in gear revealing their complete ignorance in acoustic...
Bigtex..I have an early 70s orange hand EcplororII along with a 1961 explorer 1 1016 and several other Rolex sports watches..I can come up with 6 or 8 watch brands better just off the top of my head so I would not get so cocky with your bolstering.
I go back to my Lexus comparison. Lexus owners, as with McIntosh don't have an inferiority complex. They enjoy what they have and don't feel the need to bash others.
I agree, and I suspect that the YouTube guy would say "Enjoy what you want. It's a free country."
What he is claiming, though, is that while you're enjoying the Mc experience, you are foregoing better quality experience with other gear. In part, he says, you're taken in by the looks of Mc. In part, you're just stuck in a comfy cage. You've settled for lesser gear. Are you content? Sure. So are those who eat pork rinds and call them gourmet food. But you're missing out on the real audiophile experience that Mc. cannot deliver.
So, he's not bashing Mc owners, per se. He's pitying them for being stuck. And he's warning those not yet owning Mc gear -- or the other brands which are not truly audiophile as he defines it -- to steer clear of those audio cul-de-sacs.
I think the Mc fans here have more or less countered these claims. I'm just pointing out that he's not really bashing people so much as saying they're deluded in thinking they've gone into true audiophile territory.
I go back to my Lexus comparison. Lexus owners, as with McIntosh don't have an inferiority complex. They enjoy what they have and don't feel the need to bash others. If you are at peace with your decision, then why bash others?
In my 40 years of experience with this hobby, Audiophiles seem to be more concerned with what others think of their decisions than what they truly enjoy. Why. Just be and enjoy.
Sitting here listening to my new MA8900 paired with a Roon Nucleus and Sonus Faber Olympica Nova V speaker setup. Fantastic combo. Oh, and for the haters, I’ll put my Rolex Explorer II I’ve owned for 20+ years and traveled all over the world with up against any watch for aesthetics, precision, and durability!
An MC2105 in good shape commands a ridiculous premium over its original retail, but if you own one it makes some sense. I think that it's foolish to pay what most sellers are asking if it hasn't had documented service, including at this age replacement of capacitors, and even transistors. If that maintenance is done, it is a pretty amazing amplifier, and holds up very well against a number of modern competitors.
A MC2105 is between 45 and 55 years old. They were produced from 1967 to 1977. Comparing an unserviced old technology amp to anything not from that era is hard to do. I will say that a refreshed MC2105 has value n today’s market, not to mention demand. Can that be said of its contemporaries. Perhaps why McIntosh has been in business for over 70 years. The sound is not for all, but there is a huge following for the brand.
In early 2017 I purchased a Nuforce STA 200, based on a mag review. After owning it for a month, with 24 / music running through it, I sold quite a number of power amps, locally, from my collection. A Mac 2105, with the wood case, was one of them. Compared to the Nuforce, it was muddy, spitty, edgy, closed in, and distracted me from my enjoyment of the music. Of course, I never had it serviced, although I did replace the speaker barrier strips with nice 5 ways ( that was not easy ), and replacing the power cord with a 12 gauge I made from HD stock ( very easy ). Cap replacement needed ? This comparison in my system, and many others, had me sell many amps from my collection. An audiophile acquaintance nearby owns a 452, and he LOVES it. I personally prefer dc coupled designs....
@laomanNo that is not what I was saying at ll. Just that with the majority being in North America hence the passion for McIntosh gear either way, and the popularity of the brand in this forum.
"I would venture to guess 80% of the members here are North Americans. "
So what? Are you suggesting that people of other nationalities do not have the right to post here?
McIntosh has just announced the replacement of the MA 8900 with the MA 8950. The new model has 50% greater dynamic headroom, similar to what they have done with their other newer models such as the MC462, MC611 and the MC 1.25. I would be curious how the 8950 would compare to the Luxman 590 AXii.
I cannot imagine this has not been mentioned, as I skimmed through the 1st page and came here. The definition of an audiophile is : An audiophile is a person who is enthusiastic about high fidelity sound reproduction. An audiophile seeks to reproduce the sound of a live, musical event / performance. This is at the heart of the matter. There is no mention of brand, or even price, in these definitions. If you care about the " sound ", you are an audiophile. Mac, to me, has a sound. So does Pass. I bring up Pass, because on another thread, someone did not " care for " the Pass sound. It ALL has a sound, and....our individual ears, all " want " a sound. Some have found it, with whatever gear they have, and others, are still on the search. Whatever makes you happy and, engages you to the musical performances we are listening to. There are many ways / pathways of getting there. Enjoy what you like.
Buy a Mc and don't look back -just enjoy the music. Do any of you guys analyze the acoustic properties in a concert hall instead of simply listening to the orchestra?
That Dylan line comes to mind: "Nothing is better, nothing is best...." Oh, but then this wouldn't be an audiophool forum would it? :)
I daresay there are some good reasons why some brands are iconic and some are not. Why some brands are still in business and many are not.
I find it interesting how audiophiles criticise klipsch for being "too bright" but don't like mcintosh for being too warm and prefer their amps to bright?? Very confusing!
Every time I get in the gear lust phase and start auditioning amps, McIntosh is always at the top of my list. I have never owned one but have several friends who have McIntosh. I have also auditioned several models (mostly integrated -- MA-5300, MA-8900, MA352, and a few others) in the last 3-4 years. I really liked the sound each time I listened to them, but in almost every case I was able to find something that I preferred for the same or lower cost. Two years ago, I almost bought an MA-8900 but after listening to Luxman 590-AXII, I preferred the Luxman sound by quite a substantial margin.
What I've come to realize is that when you consider the value proposition of a McIntosh amp you have to consider all the relevant aspects holistically: Sound quality + pedigree + reliability + resale value + eye candy appeal. The current prices for both new and used equipment is reflective of the value prop I mentioned. For many people, pedigree and looks might not be a big factor so they balk at the seemingly high prices compared to what you could get for similar or less money.
Having said that, McIntosh's longevity and sales numbers suggest that many people appreciate the full package the company offers. But overall I agree that if you remove the pedigree and resale value aspects from the equation, their amps are not any better or worse than anything else in the same price bracket.
... many of the mid priced gear not even made in NY ,try China ,not very good they have been sold for over 10 years I believe to a Korean firm ,Mc is not what it used to be when Audiophiles owned it
You didn't present any of those "facts" in your blanket comment which implied that their gear was purchased for looks rather than sound; and the story you tell me now is really ancient history.
Do you really believe that McIntosh has stood still since that time and not advanced their technologies, just as Audio Research has?
Thanks so much! I appreciate your reading my comments and thinking they are important.
In my former shop we sold Mc for a while. Jimmy Ryder (yes, Ryder Trucks--the son) had a shop in Miami and he was THEIR guy for many years (Hi-Fi Associates) so we did not get to keep the line since we were north of him about an hour (Boca Raton). In those days, manufacturers gave you a "territory" and even Mc was "fair trade." (You can look that up if you don’t know what it means.)
Anyway, I had a bunch of their newer gear and a bunch of their older gear (trade-ins on Audio Research). We listened to it all. The scope thing was cool until it broke. The tuner was OK--not the best, but OK. The older tube amps were less than transparent (to be kind) when it came to reproducing Lincoln Mayorga Direct-to-Disc albums. I don’t remember the pre-amps, but with SP3-A1’s all the rage at the time, I would guess they were not as accurate as the Audio Research ones were.
Reviews at the time from J. Gordon Holt and Henry Pearson et. al. were all pretty much the same--nice looking, well-built, not very accurate.
Do what you want, believe what you want. I heard what I heard, and that is that.
Sorry if you are not happy when presented with facts like many today. Life’s tough, right?
Of course you wouldn’t consider McIntosh laoman, you can’t even spell it.
You may want to take note that a bunch of Americans on this thread are spelling it wrong. I say this because you didn’t seem to have an issue with it until laoman posted.
Man initially posts his opinion without being rude or condescending and some of you jump all over him. Way to go Team America!
True McIntosh has more than a cult following .True the resale value is fantastic.True the build quality is pretty much there.I doubt for a lot there's no arguing that......but as far as being in the top tier of stereo makers worldwide they are not in the conversation.As a matter of fact they are not in the conversation of US makers either..Having said that I don't think we really need another Mac post gettng lovers and haters butting heads again.
Ive owned a decent amount of Mcintosh gear. The newest stuff is the best Mac gear Ive heard and owned - the C2700 paired with the MC462 was a nice combination. But for close to 17k for the pair "nice" just doesn't cut it. They are reliable, hold their resale and probably the prettiest gear on the market - hands down. But do they sound the best? My completely subjective response is... nope. Luxman, Hegel, LM and Pass Labs (to name a few) sound worlds better. Worlds.
I know mc well and know modf8ng betterthen most Mc have pretty meters
partsquality is nothing more then average , many of the mid priced gear not even made in NY ,try China ,not very good they have been sold for over 10 years I believe to a Korean firm ,Mc is not what it used to be when Audiophiles owned it .
if you like. Pretty meters Luxman is better choice and made in Japan.
What a pathetic little reply. It must have taken all your brain cells to come up with that. By they way before you criticise my spelling, look at your punctuation. There should be a semi colon after "laoman".
"As I stated in a previous post in this thread, Macintosh is not for me; it would be pretty close to the bottom in the line of hi fi equipment I would consider."
Of course you wouldn't consider McIntosh laoman, you can't even spell it.
The Asian market for McIntosh is doing very well. They sell a lot of units worldwide, and 50% of their products are shipped to other countries. The factory has been running two shifts for a couple of years and the wait time for product is anywhere from 5-9 months.
No really not sure about the rest of the world and I really do not care. Just as there are many brands in Europe and Asia that Americans have never heard of, they to would be low on an Americans list a viewed as a non factor when selecting a component.
I am sure the folks at McIntosh could answer your questions.
Me I could careless I own gear that came from Sweden, Germany, Hungary and the USA.
Good Night and I would venture to guess 80% of the members here are North Americans.
There's a dealer in Chicago who says that people buy Macs for the blue meters but the performance is not that great. Taken together with all of the unenthusiastic comments about Macs in this forum, I m only conclude that it's all about personal perception. My first "audiophile" level integrated amp (having graduated from a Kenwood receiver circa 1972) was a Mac MA6200, a tidy compact unit that packed tons of features - 5 band equalizer, 2 phono inputs, 3 pairs of speakers, all 3 of which I drove simultaneously in 3 rooms, loudness comp, headphone jack and more, all at 75 watts. It sounded great in my Teal and Tannoy speakers. Next up was a MA6900 (200 watts), 5-band equalizer driving my Focal 1027's - sounded great. Presently I have a MA352 hybrid integrated (200 watts) driving the Focals. with upgraded cables, CD player and DAC, - it sounds fantastic. . There are many high quality amps, pre-amps and integrateds out there, manufactured by great companies - Mac is one of them, blue meters and all.
Please do say many things. Is anything I said inaccurate? Is Macintosh as popular in Asia and Europe as the US? Are the only posters who post on this site of US Nationality? Do some Americans have a loyalty towards the Macintosh brand? Are any of my rhetorical questions wrong?
What most of you are forgetting is that this site does not have just Americans posting. Macintosh is far less purchased outside of America. It appears that some Americans have a loyalty towards the brand; that’s fine.
As I stated in a previous post in this thread, Macintosh is not for me; it would be pretty close to the bottom in the line of hi fi equipment I would consider.
After decades of audio foolya' I'm finally, thankfully, at the point that when I can listen for hours on end and the music continues to sound lovely, that's all I care about. I'm done with endless tube rolling, cable comparisons, this component compared to that component, SS vs Tubes vs Hybrids, and the endless roller coaster of searching for some "holy grail" (if you'll excuse my use of that trite and tired phrase.) Endless anecdotal hyperbole serves no one. Can there be a more subjective hobby than ours?
Now I simply want to listen to the music. I find it liberating.
I have a pair of MC501 monoblocs running my 3.6 Maggie’s. I bought them used 15 years ago for 6K. I could sell them tomorrow for 6K. I will probably never sell them, but try that with any other brand amplifier.
The reason the hold there value is that they are quality products that last a long time and have a following (and NO they are not all sheep).
I ran through a few amps before finding my 501s and they make my Maggie’s sing.
And to complete the circle, I have a C220 tube preamp bought about the same time that still sounds great and is worth more than I paid for it. I just took a Ms300 music server out of my system that was still working to go to all streaming, but 15 years out of a computer based product is amazing. FYI, my new MB20 works seamlessly with my iPad and iPhone.
I can only speak from my own experience. I have enjoyed a Mc2125 amp, C28 pre amp, (MR77 tuner which I'm not currently using), for more than 40 years. I personally love the sound which I find to be warm but accurate for my tastes. I have never had a problem with the equipment, and in taking it in for a recent cleaning, decided to audition, and then buy a new pair of the recently discontinued Wilson Sabrina (now SabrinaX) speakers. They will arrive this next Tuesday. I almost felt like I owed my Mac pieces the upgrade for the years of service. Bought them when I was in my late 20's, and now "renewing my vows" to them in my early 70's. I'm hoping for the same with the Sabrina's. A lifetime of joy for me from this Mac stuff that still feels relevant and new. Can't say that about many things!
Among all the basically good amplifiers there is no absolute better amplifier, not only because the conditions where the evaluation is done matter...But because the relation between our needs and the other piece of gear are very specific...
And for example which is the best amplifier for the S.Q./ price ratio?
What is the better amplifier to pair with a specific speakers or turntable?
What is the amplifier you will enjoy the most at first listening?
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