Your impressions are valid. There is nothing wrong with your hearing from what I can tell.
The clicks or pops you hear are fairly common with vinyl records.
CDs don’t have this problem.
A CD is 100% bit for bit accurate data being read by a process called land and pit (grooves made by a laser) on the CD to be read as 0s and 1s.
Happy listening. Digital audio (CDs and DSD) are the best if you want an accurate rendition of the actual recording. (what was achieved in the studio with said track) |
Sugar cube or Puffin
Ultrsonic clean and line contact stylus, you won’t hear much noise. But I often like digital better too on my rig.too.
Speaking of, Octave 005 DSD blows away Jazz at the Pawnshop vinyl. |
No noise and better channel separation, what's not to like? |
Misinformed . Fuzztone is on target. I just played 24 bit Mfsl SRV Texas Flood on streamer Teac NT 505. Sounded good. Put on regular vinyl and it is better.
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If you prefer the noise that is CD to music on vinyl, go for it. |
I enjoy CD's also (Ayre silver disc player), but vinyl has more depth, air, realism, that CD's rarely provide (Winfield cart) |
Just trust your own ears. |
I've said it many times........
Don't Worry, Be Happy
Just do what makes you happy. Especially at your advanced age! ;~) |
Oh, and "If it Makes You Happy, it Can't be That Bad". |
There comes a point when one’s vinyl source is simply better than digital. While I listen to both CD and streaming, my turntables sound far more musical and satisfying. Perhaps my digital source needs to be improved but I’ve yet to hear a digital rig that sounds better than a good vinyl system. When a vinyl source and phono amplification is on point, the dynamic range should be of such scale, that surface noise is pushed far below the threshold of annoyance.
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Some of us run great LP , server/DAC, and high speed tape and can appreciate the various merits and losses of each format- music is what matters...
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I don’t know what your vinyl rig consists of but the better the gear the less noise you will get. Sweetvinyl has equipment that addresses the click and pop issue if you want to eliminate it. |
I am now 95% vinyl and rarely have problems with surface noise. Of course I am fairly fastidious in cleaning. Digital only gets played now for background music. |
“I want to love my vinyl”
So what will you trust-analog propagandists, or you lying ears?
The problem is your preconceptions. It’s hard to purge these from our critical faculties. I also fell for the critics that prefers vinyl, but after a few years I realized that in every single case, if I had recordings in both media, digital won out. There are obviously others who violently disagree with that perception, but we are all entitled to our opinions. What is important is that we make our own opinions and not fall into a herd belief because it may be the fashion of the moment |
Good clean vinyl is nearly silent. If you have a substantial amount of vinyl you should invest in a decent record cleaning machine.Very good chance a clean record will change your outlook
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For comparison here’s my gear. MMF-7 with Goldring Eroica, Graham Slee Era Gold V vs
Oppo 103, Sonica DAC
i should have been clearer. With brand new vinyl I do love the sound of my rig, but only with perfect records. I would have to buy a much better vinyl playback system and a ton of new records to replace my old used ones that have been cleaned thoroughly but still have pops and clicks. New vinyl is expensive. CDs are cheap and are 90% as good as new vinyl. Tidal hi Rez streaming with Audirvana software is also excellent and is sometimes better than vinyl. Sweetvinyl is a good suggestion. Thanks. I guess I’m getting too frugal in my old age. There is a sweetness to vinyl that I appreciate. Thanks for all the replies. |
+1, @tomic601
OP, Just enjoy the music. You have the luxury to choose what sounds best to your ears. And thanks for being open minded unlike many here who are Like a fish in water :-) |
@tgrisham I don’t see a cleaning system for the vinyl. That’s necessary as is a Zerostat device for static. Vinyl is NOT convenient. But it will reward you. Fwiw, I just bought a streamer for my future days as I age and don’t feel like the ritual that vinyl demands. I have digital that rivals analog. But I have yet to hear any that is better than the vinyl. But for convenience, digital wins. But not for sound IME. It’s ok to enjoy both. I do.So do many others here. |
Thank you Artemus. I have cleaned my records and they are stored in anti-static sleeves. I use a brush, the a roller and finally a zerostat.
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I am also getting old. I have been an audiophile for fifty years. My Weather Report album is a bit noisy. I have upgraded my system many times. But my analog end continues to be better, only by a little bit now. Since I am retired, sometimes I feel like playing vinyl. When I do, if my record has not been cleaned, I clean it... it is fun now. I preclean with Last Power cleaner, then wash in my VPI Record cleaner before applying LAST preservative. I then jacket the album in plastic sleeve. I have over 2,000 most of which are in great shape. I enjoy it. This cleaning does incredible restoration of old or $5 used albums I found. Very few of my albums have audible surface noise, even those that I bought in college... and used in the dorm!
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Having said that. I have upgraded my digital end to the point that my music streamed sounds fantastic... usually better than CD quality as high def versions are available from Qubuz (most prefer to Tidal... more HD titles). My digital end is completely enchanting and magical {Aurender WE20se, Audio Research Reference electronics). If you can spend money, improving the digital end really makes sense since you basically have access to all music, verusus the albums you own. Also, getting up every 20 minutes may be good for you if your not active... I still ride my bike 13 miles or more a day and walk 2 miles. Anyway, the Qubuz subscription cost less than and album a month but you can access millions of tunes. To find music, I go to Stereophiles and The Absolute Sounds best recordings... type it into my iPad... and it starts up... usually in a High Def recording. So, for being old farts, I think the convenience and future is simply in streaming. But analog can sound better and be fun... ritualistically. Cleaning your records can bring them back. I don’t remember your turntable and cartridge. but the better the TT absolutely lowers the noise floor. Cleaning gets rid of pops. |
so much music... so little time....
enjoy |
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so much music... so little time.... Ain't that the truth? |
What do clicks and pops have to do with music? |
Option 1: Water+rubbing alcohol+dish detergent mixture then hang dry
Option 2: Quality record cleaning machine with patented solution (which tbh is basically same as #1)
Opinion: Surface noise and pops are the Art Of Noise in vinyl characteristic appreciation. |
....the Art Of Noise is still better via CD or streamed.....
"I like my Noise straight, no rocks...." ;) |
I think there should be a device to add clicks and pops to CDs, but that's just me. My vinyl, streaming, and CDs all sound excellent, especially the MQA stuff, and I manage to live with all of it as, hey, I can...amazingly. An interesting example of relative convenience: I'm a jazz head ("beatnik syndrome" helped by legal pot, motorcycles, mostly retired guy free time, and money), especially piano trios, and a fave for years is Vijay Iyer. Genius. His new album was released a couple of days ago and showed up on my streamer in MQA the same day...whew...might get the vinyl version if it exists. Why? Why not... |
tgrisham, I've been doing this as long as you and I agree 100%. When CD's first came out in the 80's I replaced all my LP's with them and sold the LP's along with all my TT paraphernalia. Now all my CD's have been converted to ALAC and reside on my Sony HAPZ1ES. I did recently get another TT, and I have a handful of brand new Mofi Original Master Recordings. I did it just for the nostalgia. Other than the music, they are dead quiet, but don't sound any better than the DSD processed ALAC, and are more of a pain in the keister to mess with. |
Wolf-Garcias, Speaking of clicks and pops. Many years ago when Hammond switched from tone generator to solid state on the B3's the orginal key clicking sound was added for nostalgia purposes. An on off switch was added. Owned both models and liked eitrher one. |
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I prefer to admit that I am a human being, with hearing which ages less if I don't admit it to anyone, but ages still. My ability to enjoy music stems from the fact that I was brought up with classical music and it sounds "right" to me. But many people don't really know about recording and the wishes of the recordist and the mixer to change the sound to whatever THEY want. The methods have changed and the "audiophiles" still argue about this and that, but it is not important. The important thing is enjoying the MUSIC, NOT the recording of the music. I have a system better than my hearing and that is OK with me as I am getting up there in age, but I think that I enjoy the music more than someone who has not owned a recording studio and mixed music.
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A Townshend Elite Rock or Rock Reference makes all the difference 😊
+1 nitro |
Tomic is spot on the goal is listening to music the way you want.
I see again the discussion of listening vs science was pulled. It should be a synergistic interaction and not two diametrically opposed views. As Rodney King said why can't we all just get along and that's valid to a point the dividing line, however, should not be what gear you own or it's cost or what you hear or not. Make no mistake science must rule in matters of life and death and the well-being of our planet as we have only one of each.
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I don't think your observation and preferences are unique.
I have both analog and digital sources.
Streaming provides is much easier to change music than my turn table.
And I do notice pops on some LPs.
What I also notice is the LP experience is different - the selection of music. The engagement with others if joining me in a listening session. And the sound typically is more 'rhythmic' is the word I'll use. The resonance and vibrations in the room are more natural.
Is the sound floor as quite - not if there's a pop on a record. Are the highs as high...I notice them to be less harsh and symbol crashes have a natural ring to them.
Both have their time and place for me.
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@wolf_garcia ...buy some drum sticks and you can add all the racket you'd care to. *L* As long as you don't tap out on the lp itself... ;)
@nitroxpro....My hearing aids Really made a difference; not so much as to enjoyment of my rather broad taste in selection of selections, but in restoring the recognition of same. This 'getting older' routine may not be avoidable (unless one opts for the 'painting in the attic' scenario....I don't have an attic, so I'm kinda screwed *L*).
As for the 'selections', and what happened betwixt the artist(s) and self...
We're locked into 'what it Is', as it's presented to us, the 'listening public'.
We can diddle with it....eq, drag the speakers about, pad the room, play 'musical widgets' with our pile of widgets, swap cables until the floor looks like an explosion in the pasta palace.....
It really is a matter of taste....'weapons of choice'...attack those notes. *G* |
If one chooses to become a LP disciple, it starts with putting the effort to either bin dive and do some kind of cleaning or open your wallet-get a "stamper"(enough plugging for you know who).
If you choose not to do either, then you're left with those questionable overpriced reissues and "audiophile" LPs.
I own many different colored jumpsuits for my "stamper" finds.
Clicks and pops can be minimize to the point of just about "perfect" but that goes back to effort. After that, if the system is decent an errant stitch is easily dismissed for an organic, believable presentation.
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No you are not stupid vinyl is a more interactive and fun medium and there are a lot of great recordings that will never make it to digital but i would say just listen and have fun like what you like.
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I will agree, to some degree, with the lp fandom....
Of the 2 operational ones, a Garrard z100 with Shure M55E and a Teac with it’s OEM cart. Both have new(ish) inserts for contact...
Nothing fancy; they just have to work.
I have a ’project TT’ involving a Rabco SL8. Just for grins, a Stanton 681EE ought to be fun.
Yup, tangital fan. ’Anti-skate’? Why? VTA and I’m gone.
The ’ceremony’ involved with regards to lp care & feeding I grew up with, so no altar boy here. ;)
Although not possessing as many discs as most, the ones that ’made the cut’ are still here. Personal prefs, you understand....*s*
There’s others; no real attachment, just a ’rescue situation’. A few keepers that could be weeded out. No rush...
I’m a Believer in staying current, but not overboard. Things change too much too quickly of late, and I’m not able to keep a grip on the ’bleeding edge’ of audio....then, and certainly not now.
But just keeping my hand in, to the degree I’m willing to and have the time to play with it...
Sure. *g*
I have other ducks to fry and fish to keep in a row..... ;)
Meanwhile, Monday beckons...*eh*
Cheers, J
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My dad just gave me a bunch of his old records. Some really cool stuff that I've wanted for a long time. Some old Beatles, the first Band album. I cleaned them on my vacuum based record cleaner. Some sound ok but with pops and more noise. Some are unlistenable.
My experience is when the vinyl is in good shape and quiet, I always prefer the vinyl. It's bigger, more airy, more intricate. There are instruments I sometimes don't hear on digital. But if I don't have a good copy of something then digital it is. I can see how the dead quiet background of digital is very appealing and I continue to take steps to get my vinyl front end as quiet.
For me, analog and digital are just different. I prefer the former but see how others might prefer the latter. |
"if you want an accurate rendition of the actual recording"....BS! If the recording was an "Analog" recording, then the above is a ridiculous statement. The inherent surface noise on vinyl has "zero" to do with whether it is or is not an accurate rendering of a recording. Vinyl is an "Analog" medium. Some of the "best" recorded sound I’ve heard was via vinyl. Digital is missing some of the information, as it is inherent in how it is produced. The original signal is broken up into 1’s and 0’s and laced back together again. This alone interferes with the "natural flow" of the analog signal. Its like taking someone’s DNA molecule apart and lacing it back together, but forgetting a few strands here and there! No longer original. However, if the recording on vinyl was derived via a digital recording process to begin with, then the cd is essentially the same, without the surface noise. Digital will never sound as good as all analog recordings from beginning to end. I’m talking about when tube equipment was used to record the signal to tape. Some of the very best recordings were made 50 or more years ago, and that is the truth (those days are long gone). Today, most if not all is digitally processed crap.
Do I listen to CD’s? Of course! They are easy and convenient. Do they sound better? Absolutely not. If you have yet to experience that "tubey magic" that well recorded all analog vinyl can produce, then you are missing out. Noise, warts, and all, it still sounds better. JMO |
If you have 78s, put one on and listen against LPs of the fifties and sixties. The same arguments of the superiority of vinyl to digital (despite the surface noise), apply to the difference between shellac and vinyl. (Perhaps illusory, as sound [what we sense in our brains] is illusory as well.) |
I didn't understand the big deal about vinyl - I had a Rega TT with an Exact cartridge, and I got no thrill out of the vinyl I had and would go years without playing a record. Just recently upgraded my vinyl system with a Technics SL-1200G TT, Clearaudio Charisma MM cartridge, and phono preamp and line stage preamp from Herron Audio. Now I understand the big deal about vinyl. It does sound better than digital in my system, but digital still sounds excellent and as long as I like the music, I can be happy with either. |
I have a lot of LP's that I like. If I have it on CD, I will usually play that, but I am not going to go to the trouble of replacing my LP's and cannot replace all of the. I do have some old Sheffield, etc, Direct to Disc albums that later came out on CD. I do prefer the LP on some of these. Besides, I really like Fine Line M/C cartridges, whatever it is they do.
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Just my comment on the original post and those that agree that vinyl has too much noise.
Something is wrong if that is your experience. I have been buying and playing records since 1964 (55 years) Most of them are dead quiet.
Last night I put on Duke Ellington Indigos and then Lightnin Hopkins Soul Blues. You cannot hear a thing until the music starts and nothing between tracks.I have some from the late 60's and early 70's that got poor treatment through playing at parties. But if you are hearing noise on new records something is wrong, ie. not clean, poor pressing, poor gear?
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My point was that with a well sorted system, any format from tape to 78s and digital can and should sound great when playing great music. Otherwise why bother with of any of this? |
