How do you high pass your main speakers?

@mitch2 I suggest you read the original article. 

@erik_squires 

Your quote from Troels sounds as if he is discussing a 2-way speaker, where the midrange does double duty serving the bass too.  Why would the midrange be “pumping deep bass” on a 3-way speaker?

Not.all stand mounts are 2 or 2.5-way speakers but even with woofers dedicated to bass frequencies, there can be benefits of using a high-pass filter when using subs, such as keeping the LF drivers operating in the range where they are most linear and relieving the power amplifier of some back-EMF coming from the speaker drivers as presented in the quote from Troels that you shared.

Re: the OP and his sealed ATC SCM19 main speaker design with its huge magnet, large 3" and underhung voice coil SL-woofer, the distortion numbers here are already quite low up through the midrange, and my previous "leave it as it is"-answer (i.e.: don’t mind high-passing them) was partially in relation to this context. Granted, as a sealed design there’ll be excursion maxima at the tune, and thus there will be some influence into the mids at more elevated SPL’s with low frequency material exciting the cones into prodigious movement, not least if/when the voice coil exceeds the gap and its linear motion, but at more typical listening levels it’s a lesser issue.

Question remains: when will the efforts of high-passing them be worth it, and naturally this depends on the specific implementation of a HP-filter among other things. Given a fully active DSP-configuration steeper HP-slopes can be easily chosen, and it’ll make the HP-function and its sonic implications all the more effective. A mere 1. order slope here will still have some "bleeding" into LF-territory and is really only a half-baked solution - even with an 80Hz HP. Myself I’m implementing a HP over my mains at ~85Hz, 36dB/octave L-R slopes, and that’s with dual 15" woofers per channel w/100dB sensitivity and 800W continuous power handling - that is, tested with material into the bass region, so add a bunch of dB’s of effective headroom when high-passed as described. What’s interesting with such a powerful main speaker system is the difference a HP still provides for here; natively a ported design tuned at a relatively high 40-ish Hz, high-passing them removes the character of the ports, cleans up the mids even further with sharper leading edges, and seamlessly "delivers" them to a pair of very efficient 1/8 space loaded tapped horns that are quite "characterless" as well - not least when compared to the sonic imprinting of a variety of dual 18"-loaded direct radiating subs. All of this makes for a more seamless integration with the horn section from ~600Hz on up (111db sensitive). Indeed, here a HP over the mains makes a world of difference.

Thanks @perkri !

I paricularly think that audiophiles should focus on this sentence from Troels, which is in alignment with my previous statements:

But not having the midrange driver pumping deep bass has a positive impact on the midrange as well and it also relieves the power amplifier of some back-EMF coming from the speaker drivers. Pretty much a win-win situation.

While Troels is discussing a 3-way system with a dedicated midrange this is essentially the same as taking a 2-way and adding a subwoofer. High passing the satellite has enormous audible benefits that outweigh all of the puritanical nit picking by far.

I am in agreement with @erik_squires 

Read this article

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/High-Pass-Filter.htm

@erik_squires    As someone with hands on experience, and after getting plenty of positive feedback from A’goners who have actually tried it, I believe that most everyone who high passes their main speakers, via a line level crossover of some sort, finds it a wonderful end-result.

A very good point erik.

If most of those folks could hear the comparison between David Hall's Velodyne 2011 Digital Drive Plus high pass vs its basic twenty minute Auto EQ, I'm certain the Auto EQ would be the hands down preferred choice. Since the sale of the company it seems any further updating of the twelve year old software has stalled while prices have more than doubled making it a questionable recommendation. 

@mijostyn     1.The only way eric that you can do what I have been talking about is with digital signal processing. 2. Using digital signal processing to "room control" the subwoofers wastes a lot of power and stresses the drivers. It is better to use a cleverly designed room and subwoofer array to keep nodes to a minimum and use dsp sparingly.

mijostyn +1  I found this to be case with 7.1 home theater (same speaker hight and distance) setup from the listening position. This greatly reduced dependency on processing and a far more enjoyable surround. I was taught how to map the rooms low frequency standing waves in the late 60's by the guy who sold me his Octavium, my first subwoofer. 

I can't speak to the prospect of digitizing the entire audio band as a means to control subwoofer room optimization, that's another topic. Despite my main speakers and the two DSP subwoofer systems providing what seems to be the best of both worlds, I'm still interested in hearing your impressions with DEQX. 

There’s optimally and very very good, @mijostyn . :) I wager I can get to very very good, but rather than dicker in hypothetical arguments I’m going to put my money where my mouth is. I find that more convincing. :)

Yes, absolutely being able to control high and low pass is the easiest way to integrate a satellite and sub, but in many cases a user is specifically choosing a non-DSP based preamp and processor and hence my solution.  BTW, my solution is not unlike what Vandersteen does in some cases.  The Vandersteen solution is sound and mine is based on similar principles.

I’ll post back when I have got my project working. :)

@erik_squires , modern digital preamps like the Anthem STR, Trinnov Amethyst and DEQX do the measurement for you and correct most of the problems along with providing crossover filters. The DEQX will quadra amp a system if you so desire. 

@erik_squires Please excuse me Erik and no it will not or rather it will but not optimally. It is a half baked method of crossing to subwoofers. 

@erik_squires , The only way eric that you can do what I have been talking about is with digital signal processing. The reason you have to have independent control over both high and low pass filters both 3 or 6 dB down points and slopes is because after matching time and phase the game is keeping the subwoofers out of the midrange and relieving the main speakers of as much bass as possible, two conflicting issues.

@mijostyn

First, weird that you can actually see how my name is spelled and still chose to misspell it.

Second, you are thinking too much like a speaker builder, which I am and respect, but it’s leaving you locked in your thinking. As speaker builders we think of the electro-acoustical properties of each driver and come up with a happy balance of slope, delay and phase matching, but if we are limited by what we can do in one filter section we can compensate for it in another. For instance, if your tweeter requires a steeper rolloff then you can compensate by removing a pole in the woofer.

This same principle also means that we can achieve very good frequency and phase matching if at least one of your filters (high or low) is one you have complete control over. So a simple high pass filter on the mains + DSP on the sub will work beautifully.

I’m working on a project right now to help demonstrate this more fully, I hope you find it helpful.

In any case, no matter how you chose to integrate a subwoofer, whether we use a DSP for both high and low pass filtering, use no high pass filter, or take the approach I suggest, taking in room measurements is essential. The basic speaker specs are practically useless in determining the appropriate filter settings once in an actual room.

@erik_squires , The only way eric that you can do what I have been talking about is with digital signal processing. The reason you have to have independent control over both high and low pass filters both 3 or 6 dB down points and slopes is because after matching time and phase the game is keeping the subwoofers out of the midrange and relieving the main speakers of as much bass as possible, two conflicting issues. Using digital signal processing to "room control" the subwoofers wastes a lot of power and stresses the drivers. It is better to use a cleverly designed room and subwoofer array to keep nodes to a minimum and use dsp sparingly.

I am going to be Beta testing DEQX's new Pre 8 preamplifier shortly. Read up on it. It is quite a unit.

Measuring your system is always a great idea if you really want to see where your problems are. I evaluated a friends system yesterday after installing his new Clearaudio Charisma. He has a small but very nice situation in the lower level of his condo. His system has minimal distortion but he complains of not being able to tolerate louder levels and he lacks refined imaging. His problems were laid bare on the computer. His system was +5 dB at 10 kHz and the left and right channels had very different curves throughout the midrange. The high frequency boost is the reason he can't listen at louder levels and the variation between the channels is killing his image. He also uses two subwoofers with low pass filters only. After seeing his issues on the computer he is ordering a MiniDSP SHD preamplifier with which we can conquer these issues and more. 

In order to fine tune a subwoofer’s crossover you need to be able to select both frequency and slope of both the high pass and low pass filters independently.

Well.... kind of sort of but no... 😀

@mijostyn in an ideal world we could effectively turn a 2 way speaker system into a 3 way and apply the same amount of thought and flexibility to both the high and low pass filters and integrate a sub just like you would a driver in a speaker cabinet. I do actually favor this approach... but it’s not strictly required if the low pas filter section is flexible enough and lets us apply EQ and control the slope and delay. That is, we CAN get a little hack-y. with the method I suggested assuming I have a DSP to manage the subwoofer from and will achieve really good results.

I do agree that no matter what you do a delicate and fine tuned integration of the subwoofer is essential. After high-passing the mains the remaining issues are relatively minor and QED with good measurements and a DSP.

I keep meaning to do a blog post on exactly how this would work, so stay tuned gang! :) I will put my money where my mouth is and take lots of measurements.

@mapman 

In particular with small speakers, removing the two lowest octaves can greatly reduce the distortion, not just across the bass but well into the midrange, so the speakers sound more transparent with improved soundstage, and eliminating the bass also increases the speaker’s dynamic range a great deal. It’s a really life-changing experience.

Even if a speakers output drops it doesn’t mean the cone displacement does, quite the contrary, an effect which is made worse with ported speakers.

Well said.  I don't know about "life-changing" but your other points are spot on.  IME, the effect/benefit is greater with main speakers that don't go too deep or don't handle high power well.  I use the Marchand XM446 fully balanced high pass filter and because of the low frequency capabilities of my main speakers, I had them roll it off pretty low at 45Hz.  I roll the subs in about 40-45 Hz and the result sounds great.  Neither of their passive filters, the XM46SB-AA (single-ended) at $325 nor the XM446XLR-A (balanced) at $525, break the bank for a well-engineered high pass filter using high quality parts.  For folks seriously looking at this option, I suggest calling Marchand and getting what you need, rather than farting around with capacitors.

I use the high level connection on my REL T7i subwoofer (i.e. speaker wire connections to the power amp), so filtering between the pre and power amp is not an option. Is there a way to add a high pass filter for my speakers at the speaker wire output of my power amplifier?

I'm guessing your speakers were designed to handle their low frequency limits.

If the amplifier driving those speakers has adequate output to drive them, the methode of the high pass filtering may interfere with their designed presentation.

Its something you might try. High pass filtering is far from a panacea simply because subwoofers are being used.

The region where your speakers are rolling off is like a landing pad to lay your SVS subwoofers crossover onto. I'm assuming your feeding your sub-bass speakers the equalized line level signal from the SVS. 

Regarding the capacitor advice of @erik_squires: would it be possible to add it directly before the speakers? Of course, a different value would be needed. Sorry if this is stupid, I have no background in electronics. My reasoning is like this:

@donquichotte - Technically yes, but the cap size would be huge. It’s also not a very good or efficient idea. YG Acoustics has actually made a speaker like this, though really really not sure why, except maybe they were worried about over driving the woofer.

By putting a high pass filter before your amplifier you minimize the voltage swing the amp has to make, but putting it after means the amp still has to produce the same range of (+) and (-) voltages.

In other words, putting a high pass filter before your amp gives you more headroom, allowing it to play louder before reaching the limits

3. Or maybe this could be done inside the speaker, between the crossover and the woofer itself?

Well, yes, that’s called a crossover. 😂

Hi everybody! I'm also contemplating high passing (some of) my speakers. Regarding the capacitor advice of @erik_squires: would it be possible to add it directly before the speakers? Of course, a different value would be needed. Sorry if this is stupid, I have no background in electronics. My reasoning is like this:

1. If I'm going for the preamp-->capacitor-->power amp route with my integrated amplifier (with pre-outs and power-ins) then I would also need another interconnect cable as I cannot simply insert the capacitors in the RCA or XLR connectors in the back of my amp. The cable would need to be butchered. Plenty of extra contacts and soldering in the signal path as well as the particular voicing and the extra expense of the additional interconnect turns this into something less simple and elegant than I'd like. Not to mention that I'd have to use both the unbalanced and the balanced pre outs in this case at the same time (pre to power and also pre to subwoofer) and I don't know if this is totally without sonic consequences.

2. For connecting the speaker cables I prefer the bare wire option anyway, after trying WBT bananas and spades that is. I'd simply have to solder one speaker wire to one leg of the capacitor, while the other leg would go to the biding post (maybe at the amp end of the speaker cable in order to avoid too much vibration induced by the speaker?)

3. Or maybe this could be done inside the speaker, between the crossover and the woofer itself?

Of course, in this case only the woofer would benefit from having to deal with less deep bass while the power amplifier would not be spared of the task...

@carlsbad2 

Thanks Jerry.

I have come to that exact conclusion.

It's like cooking. Sometimes it is best to resist adding that extra teaspoon of salt.

Appreciate the common sense advice.

Tony

Rereading this thread, I stil think that there is no need to do anything.  You won't improve your sound because your current speakers don't go low enough to worry about.  My guess is things sound really good right now.

But I want to caution about the advice in this thread  to hit your signal train with a sledgehammer of electronics.  I've posted before that I consider the signal path sacred and it should be touched as little as possible.  Running your signal through an endless rack of electronics is a sure way to end us with that common "consumer" sound.

If you do decide to so something, I highly recommend the path @erik_squires has suggested which messes with the signal the least and give your speakers the best chance of continuing to do a great job above 80Hz.

Jerry

add 1 cap for dynamic OR add 2 cap and 2 inductor for thd

@tony1954 Great year! I'm 02/12. I have been crossing over to subwoofers since the Dahlquist LP1 was released in 1979. The LP 1 used an active 2nd order low pass filter and a passive 1st order high pass filter. They gave a kit of capacitors and you had to solder the right ones into the unit based on your main amp's input impedance. Fc = 1/2PiRC R is the input impedance of the amp and C is the capacitor in Farads which you had to select based on the crossover frequency you wanted. This is a first order or 6 dB/oct filter which is very slow. You can do this by putting the right sized cap in series with the input of your amp. I soldered them in all the time and I recommend this for those who have subs that only have low pass filters. You can get analog two way crossovers like the unit JL Audio makes but even better is digital bass management which allows you to time and phase align the subwoofer as well as allowing much steeper slopes without distortion and Room Control. These units are made by MiniDSP and dBx. There are also full feature digital preamps that include bass management from Trinnov, DEQX. Legacy, MiniDSP, and Anthem. 

@ditusa's link is excellent and you should read it through. 

In order to fine tune a subwoofer's crossover you need to be able to select both frequency and slope of both the high pass and low pass filters independently. My ancient TacT digital preamp gives you a selection of crossover frequencies from 20 to 300 Hz in 1 Hz intervals, 1st through 10th order and you can change them on the fly with the remote control! Today only the DEQX gives you this kind of flexibility. The goal here is to use the highest crossover frequency you can using the equipment you have. If you can hear the subwoofer, tell there is one in the system other than feeling the lowest notes then you still have work to do. The higher the crossover point the more likely it is you will hear the subwoofer. The slower the slope the more likely it is you will hear the subwoofer. Turn off the main speakers and listen to just the sub. If you can hear midrange coming out of it you have a problem. You have two choices. Lower the crossover point or speed up the slope. I use Sound Labs ESLs. I currently high pass the SLs at 120 Hz  6th order and low pass the subs at 110 Hz 8th order. Because removing the low bass from the main speakers lowers distortion I never recommend using a crossover lower than 80 Hz. If the main speaker is a full range driver like my SLs you do not want to go lower than 100 Hz. 

The next problem is time and phase alignment. If you do not have the ability to adjust this digitally the best starting place is to keep all your speakers and subwoofers equidistant from the listening position. Place you two subwoofers at intervals between the main speakers right up against the wall. Using a tape measure measure the distance between the subs and your listening position. Now adjust your main speakers so they are the same distance away. If you want them farther off the wall you will have to move them out laterally. If you can not make this set up sound right then the smartest way to proceed is by getting a calibrated USB microphone and see what is happening. You can then adjust the speaker positioning to minimize group delays. Or you can get a Digital preamp that will come with a measurement mic and let the computer do everything for you. The other beauty about digital preamps is that they usually provide digital EQ capability which allows you to make your system sound exactly as you want it to without adding any distortion. You also do not need a separate DAC as they are included. The MiniDSP HSD is only $1,200.00. At this moment I think the soon to be released DEQX Pre 8 and Pre 4 are going to be best. They have not released the prices yet. I am going to be Beta testing the Pre 8 shortly. 

@tony1954 

I would try the ATC speakers crossed over between 65-75 Hz with a 2nd order Butterworth filter on the miniDSP.  The sub should be crossed over at 65-75 Hz with a 4th order Linkwitz-Riley type crossover.- either in the miniDSP, or using the subwoofer's own crossover (assuming here the sub has a 4th order low-pass cross over option).  The idea is for the ATC's natural roll-off and that of the miniDSP to combine together.  The combo will be equivalent to 4th order and close to a  Linkwitz-Riley alignment.  (If you have a home theatre processor, this can also be achieved by setting the ATC's to small.)  Start with the polarity of both the ATC and the sub as positive.  Depending on where you locate the subs relative to the ATC, you may also need to play with the phase adj knob on the sub if it has one.

@tony1954 wrote:

Actually my MiniDSP crossover is set to 80Hz for the subs so there would be a redundancy of frequencies from that 80Hz threshold and where the ATC's roll off around 54Hz. 

Perhaps it might be best to just tweak the crossover point a little bit lower to mitigate any spike between 54Hz and 80Hz.

Some prefer a slight overlap between the subs and mains, but I would use the supplied lower knee specs by ATC for your SCM19's and work from there setting an appropriate low-pass point juggling through the range here. The ATC's being a sealed design with a shallow lower end roll-off I suspect you would be better off lowering the LP from 80Hz and experiment with slope steepness. Using a DBA arrangement and setting delays, depending on the specific implementation, must be close to a nightmare to get right - although some may argue it's less important, but I digress. Your ears must decide, so whatever works, works (in my own actively configured speaker setup I use the same LP and HP frequency between the subs and mains with 36dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley slopes, so very little "redundancy" at the crossover. Proper delay settings here is of vital importance). 

Doesn't your MiniDSP have extra output channels? You already have all you need then to experiment high-passing your mains. 

I’m familiar with ATCs (mine pair is the ATC SCM12 Pro passive monitor). These are sealed/acoustic suspension designs with terrific bass that disappears rather abruptly below the resonance frequiency, which I believe is in the mid-40s.

As for the high pass, after trying all manner of workarounds, I ended up buying a used but perfect-functioning electronic crossover, the Marchand XM66, which has 24 dB/octave slopes (ideal for your application) and a variable crossover. I’m accustomed to setting mine anywhere from 70 Hz to 80 Hz. That means:

-- all frequencies below the crossover point go to my subwoofer (JLAudio e110);

-- and all frequencies above the crossover point go to the ATCs, or the other pair of speakers I use on my desktop, the vintage KEF 103.2s, also a sealed 2-way design

I chose this crossover frequency because the sub is so capable in that range; while the ATCs, wonderful though their bass is, are working harder the lower the frequencies go to the resonant frequencies. So I relieve them of their hardest workload.

This electronic crossover is very transparent acoustically. I really can’t distinguish between it being in-line vs not being in-line.

That’s my recommendation: an external crossover with high crossover slopes. Note that Marchand also makes electronic crossover with fixed crossovers (via internal cards you can purchase). And example of that is the XM9. The most elaborate of their crossovers, the more expensive XM44, allows you to individually select crossover cards at the frequency and slope you specify.

High passing the main speakers is something I would never consider.

Your ATCs make excellent bass, why would you want to take that away from them?

You can integrate subwoofers seamlessly without doing so.  

@dbphd 

I am glad to hear that Charlie Hansen (RIP - another bicyclist lost too early due to a vehicle incident) approved of the passive balanced Marchand high-pass filter that I recommended earlier in this thread.  That filter seems to do no harm in my system.

The effectiveness of using a high-pass filter, and the best-suited cut-off frequency and slope, will be largely dependent on the main speakers.  Main speakers that do well handling high current and rolling off at their lowest frequencies without issue are possible candidates to be run full-range with a sub rolled in at an appropriate frequency.  Main speakers that do not do well at the lowest frequencies, and speakers where the bass driver(s) also handle midrange duties, are more likely to realize a sonic improvement by using a high-pass filter to limit the depth of the low frequencies that need to be handled by the mid-bass driver.

My Aerial LR5 speakers offer the advantages of being a 3-way design (where the low frequency drivers do not also handle the mid-range) and having bass drivers that extend low, down to around 40Hz.  They are also quite dynamic and designed to handle high power.  The designer, Michael Kelly, suggested running them full range and rolling the Aerial SW-12s in to fill in the lowest frequencies.  I have found that set-up to work well but when something else in my system (DAC, preamp, cables, etc.) results in a more bass-heavy presentation, then adding the Marchand high-pass filter (45Hz cut-off) between my preamp and amps does seem to help without causing a sonic penalty.   

I tried a Bryston active high-pass between my Ayre preamp

Same result with a different pre, just sounded off.

Every speaker is different, so is every crossover point. Example, the KEF Reference 5 speaker crossover is set at 350hz and 2800hz,  but the KEF Reference 5 Meta crossover is set at 450hz and 2100hz. Even a small change in design can change the the crossover settings.

I tried a Bryston active high-pass between my Ayre preamp and amp and didn’t like the resulting sound. When I asked Ayre about it, Charles Hansen castigated me for placing an active component between his preamp and amp -- a zero feedback issue. He did approve of the passive balanced Marchand 80 Hz 24 dB high-pass I now use, and the Ayre sound is preserved.  A Velodyne SMS-1 provides acoustic room correction for a pair of HGS-15s.

@ddrave44 

Yeah. The more I think about my options and how they fit into my setup, the possible cost and how it will affect the sound quality, the more I think that tweaking the bass array crossover point seems the way to go.

Thanks for the feedback.

I have been thinking about tri-amping, so this topic has been on my mind. 
Rightly or wrongly, I don’t wish to put a digital component in the stream.

An interesting device I’ve seen can be found at this link.  https://sublimeacoustic.com/products/k231-stereo-3-way-active-crossover

I have purchased, and I’m currently having these devices checked over and cleaned up. Firstly, a Sansui AU-5900.  I love this vintage integrated amp, and it produces a sound very pleasing to me. The key piece is the Sansui CD-5, A three-way crossover, with variable crossover points. I plan to use the pre-out on the integrated into the CD-5, and then use the Integrated +2 additional amps. Additionally, I have purchased a Sansui BA-90, and a BA-60 for amplification. Some of the questions I have: what crossover points?… good thing the CD-5 is adjustable. Also, do I want to run the highs, lows, or mid range back into the integrated?
 

If anybody wants to discuss this rare, vintage, and quirky set up further, feel free to DM me, I don’t want to hijack the thread. But I am actively in the process of figuring this out.

Good luck to the OP, I fully support that you need to separate the signals and have your amps only drive the separated frequencies.

Does your integrated amp have a pre amp out / amp in feature? If so just run the Harrison filters with rca jumpers.  I'd suggest the 70hz ones for you. 

That said, I kind of agree with the folks who say to just carefully  dial in your bass array.  

The beauty of your setup its you could try both to see what you prefer. 

Good Luck!

I do JL CR1 to high pass my magicos

@carlsbad2 

You are correct. The ATC don't go much below 55Hz, but I knew that before I bought them.

I agree 100% with your assessment. I just thought I would ask the question so I could see if there was something I was missing. I also used the speakers as the front speakers in a HT application via HT bypass so limiting there response is not ideal. 

All things considered I am very happy with the sound quality as the system is currently configured, so I am guessing I may just play around with a slightly lower crossover frequency for now.

@esarhaddon1 

"Before you go complaining to management as some have in the past,"

Why am I not surprised.

@k600r 

I personally believe you should set your crossover point by ear.

That practice has worked well for me.  Knowing the frequency response curve of my speakers does help as a starting point.  When I finish setting up my two subs, I subtly miss them when they are turned off.  A remote control to adjust the sub’s volume +/- 1,2,3 helps optimize for different listening levels and musical material.

Also Tony, Before you go complaining to management as some have in the past, I would suggest you actually READ what I have and HAVN'T said. Notice that I never cut down anyone else advise. Other that to caution you and to give you some SOUND advise on reviewing YOUR motives, I didn't cut you down Your equipment, or your choices. I suggested that MAYBE your speakers might be deficient or inferior, but you opened with that! I just gave one of dozens of reason that there are NO SIMPLE SOLUTIONS to what you are attempting to do. 

tony1954

If you have a point to make, I would suggest you state it. I made some very clear points and you can’t address any of them apparently. so I am assuming that you just like talking trash about peoples input.
The only point of ignorance I have is that there is a multitude of factors you failed to mention. But I would expect you to even know what they are.

As I stated If you have the money to spend play any silly games you wish, but you would have to write a complete essay to even begin to describe what you are hearing or hope to achieve. You give One single parameter that by itself is useless. I mentioned just a couple of items that you probably don't have the background to deal with and only wished to give a little caution before you make some EXPESNSIVE mistakes. But you'll are smarter than everyone here. Of course that is why you  are asking questions of the public to begin with correct?

 You see I actually studies Electronics Engineering in College and have been designing speakers since the late 70s and I have even told stories about mistakes I have made doing some of the same types of things people are asking here, just to show that messing with something isn't always the best answer.

I personally believe you should set your crossover point by ear and not by what your friend or neighbor think it should be. I use a Celodyne servo sub with my Quad 63’s and feel it works very well. I start low on the crossover frequency and raise it until you can hear the sub kick in with music playing. Then I back off about 7-10 Hz unroll it sounds right to my ears. Seems to work well for me.

Sounds like your speakers don't go very low and probably mate very well with your subs.  

I like to touch the signal as little as possible and my prejudice is that an electronic crossover might do more harm than good.

The recommendation to use an exectronic crossover in this application comes most often from a dealer selling said crossover, or someone repeating what they have heard from this dealer.  btw, the dealer is often mischaracterized as an expert.

Excuse my skepticism. YMMV.

Jerry

Hey @bumpy48  - The value of the capacitor is based on the input impedance of your amplifier. 

You can use  this calculator, filling in the top with the input impedance (probably 25k or higher) and the Hz with the cut-off.  80 Hz is a good value there.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/high-pass-filter

@esarhaddon1 

"You seem to be saying that yo don't like your speakers or that yo know better than the engineers that designed them."

"OR maybe you really do have CR@PPY speakers. so what the heck, experiment away!"

"No one reding your post has any idea what yo are hearing so how can anyone hear make such a decision."

If ignorance is bliss, you must be one happy dude.

I don't mind people experimenting, BUT don't do something that can't be reversed easily. You seem to be saying that yo don't like your speakers or that yo know better than the engineers that designed them. I must ask what started this line of thinking for you? Was it something that you were told or read. I would dump that like a hot rock. I guess if you have the money to spend it is ultimately your choice, but just to accommodate some frivolous fantasy seems to be wasteful. OR maybe you really do have CR@PPY speakers. so what the heck, experiment away!
As far as what crossover point and the degree of rolloff, ISN'T that totally your choice. No one reding your post has any idea what yo are hearing so how can anyone hear make such a decision. This isn't something engraved in stone. That is why we spend our money on quality equipment so that we have the advantage of highly educated and experienced engineers to make these decisions for us an we don't have to play games with our equipment.
As I mentioned in another post about crossovers and capacitors, just take Mundorf capacitors, there are probably a dozen different versions of any given capacitance made my Mundorf and they all have different characteristics so do you have the engineering background to choose which one you want to use to achieve some arbitrary results that you woke up this morning and didn't like something you thought you heard?

I don’t know if this will get me canceled, but power my SCM 19’s + Dynaudio sub (18s) with Arcam AVR + Arcam power amp and use Dirac for room EQ and Crossover.

I am very happy with the result.

If you have preamp outputs and amp inputs, you can use this inexpensive device to  act as a very configurable electronic crossover: Dayton Audio DSP-408.  Get the Bluetooth dongle with it.  I hear it’s sound can be improved by using a 15V power brick instead of 12V supplied, but I haven’t tried it myself. This unit is pretty geeky, so if you are not so inclined, pass, but the same is true for miniDSP.  If you want an analog crossover with this kind of flexibility, JL Audio makes the CR-1, but it is not inexpensive!

Does your integrated have a pre-out /amp in feature? 

erik_squires. Please can anyone post a reference so I can calculate the value of this capacitor for different frequencies?