How do you high pass your main speakers?


I have been very happy with the distributed bass array I added to my system, but from what I hear, the optimum method of integration is to high pass the main speakers.

Two questions:

1. What are my options for accomplishing this? Does this need to be a feature built into my amplifier or is there another component that needs to be inserted in the chain. 

2. What crossover point would be ideal? What frequency and amount of rolloff would be best if my speakers are ATC SCM19's which have a frequency response of (-6dB) 54Hz-22kHz.

Cheers,

Tony

128x128tony1954

Showing 4 responses by mijostyn

@tony1954 Great year! I'm 02/12. I have been crossing over to subwoofers since the Dahlquist LP1 was released in 1979. The LP 1 used an active 2nd order low pass filter and a passive 1st order high pass filter. They gave a kit of capacitors and you had to solder the right ones into the unit based on your main amp's input impedance. Fc = 1/2PiRC R is the input impedance of the amp and C is the capacitor in Farads which you had to select based on the crossover frequency you wanted. This is a first order or 6 dB/oct filter which is very slow. You can do this by putting the right sized cap in series with the input of your amp. I soldered them in all the time and I recommend this for those who have subs that only have low pass filters. You can get analog two way crossovers like the unit JL Audio makes but even better is digital bass management which allows you to time and phase align the subwoofer as well as allowing much steeper slopes without distortion and Room Control. These units are made by MiniDSP and dBx. There are also full feature digital preamps that include bass management from Trinnov, DEQX. Legacy, MiniDSP, and Anthem. 

@ditusa's link is excellent and you should read it through. 

In order to fine tune a subwoofer's crossover you need to be able to select both frequency and slope of both the high pass and low pass filters independently. My ancient TacT digital preamp gives you a selection of crossover frequencies from 20 to 300 Hz in 1 Hz intervals, 1st through 10th order and you can change them on the fly with the remote control! Today only the DEQX gives you this kind of flexibility. The goal here is to use the highest crossover frequency you can using the equipment you have. If you can hear the subwoofer, tell there is one in the system other than feeling the lowest notes then you still have work to do. The higher the crossover point the more likely it is you will hear the subwoofer. The slower the slope the more likely it is you will hear the subwoofer. Turn off the main speakers and listen to just the sub. If you can hear midrange coming out of it you have a problem. You have two choices. Lower the crossover point or speed up the slope. I use Sound Labs ESLs. I currently high pass the SLs at 120 Hz  6th order and low pass the subs at 110 Hz 8th order. Because removing the low bass from the main speakers lowers distortion I never recommend using a crossover lower than 80 Hz. If the main speaker is a full range driver like my SLs you do not want to go lower than 100 Hz. 

The next problem is time and phase alignment. If you do not have the ability to adjust this digitally the best starting place is to keep all your speakers and subwoofers equidistant from the listening position. Place you two subwoofers at intervals between the main speakers right up against the wall. Using a tape measure measure the distance between the subs and your listening position. Now adjust your main speakers so they are the same distance away. If you want them farther off the wall you will have to move them out laterally. If you can not make this set up sound right then the smartest way to proceed is by getting a calibrated USB microphone and see what is happening. You can then adjust the speaker positioning to minimize group delays. Or you can get a Digital preamp that will come with a measurement mic and let the computer do everything for you. The other beauty about digital preamps is that they usually provide digital EQ capability which allows you to make your system sound exactly as you want it to without adding any distortion. You also do not need a separate DAC as they are included. The MiniDSP HSD is only $1,200.00. At this moment I think the soon to be released DEQX Pre 8 and Pre 4 are going to be best. They have not released the prices yet. I am going to be Beta testing the Pre 8 shortly. 

@erik_squires , The only way eric that you can do what I have been talking about is with digital signal processing. The reason you have to have independent control over both high and low pass filters both 3 or 6 dB down points and slopes is because after matching time and phase the game is keeping the subwoofers out of the midrange and relieving the main speakers of as much bass as possible, two conflicting issues. Using digital signal processing to "room control" the subwoofers wastes a lot of power and stresses the drivers. It is better to use a cleverly designed room and subwoofer array to keep nodes to a minimum and use dsp sparingly.

I am going to be Beta testing DEQX's new Pre 8 preamplifier shortly. Read up on it. It is quite a unit.

Measuring your system is always a great idea if you really want to see where your problems are. I evaluated a friends system yesterday after installing his new Clearaudio Charisma. He has a small but very nice situation in the lower level of his condo. His system has minimal distortion but he complains of not being able to tolerate louder levels and he lacks refined imaging. His problems were laid bare on the computer. His system was +5 dB at 10 kHz and the left and right channels had very different curves throughout the midrange. The high frequency boost is the reason he can't listen at louder levels and the variation between the channels is killing his image. He also uses two subwoofers with low pass filters only. After seeing his issues on the computer he is ordering a MiniDSP SHD preamplifier with which we can conquer these issues and more. 

@erik_squires Please excuse me Erik and no it will not or rather it will but not optimally. It is a half baked method of crossing to subwoofers. 

@erik_squires , modern digital preamps like the Anthem STR, Trinnov Amethyst and DEQX do the measurement for you and correct most of the problems along with providing crossover filters. The DEQX will quadra amp a system if you so desire.